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Q&A Falco Q&A

A-Laon

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Where it all went wrong
To help expand the theory behind counterpicking as a Falco main, it may be useful in this guide to also include insight as to what likely character changes your opponent may make following your choice of stage. Those who know the extent of their opponent's roster or newer players who are less familiar with common counterpicks could use the added knowledge of what they may be setting themselves up for before they make a potentially foolish counterpick.

I know that I'd be more hesitant to take a Marth to DL64 if I wasn't comfortable fighting the Peach or Jiggs which may come out.

Familiarity with character/stage preferences can be gained elsewhere, but it might as well be put under one roof (one which is already doing a good job providing information, nonetheless).
 

soap

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thats a good point but u have to know who they play, otherwise take them where u feel comfortable, like im still taking jiggs to corneria even if that means dragging out their crappy fox
 

Omni_Smash

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Yayz for incredibly cool laser guide that is on the way, I'll be in class that day for sure.
 

Junpappy

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Finally! A thread that tells people that FD shouldn't be your counterpick against Fox lol.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
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Mog where are youuu


edit: have you seen Shai's laser guide for fox? maybe you can do the same thing only showing like how to time hitting the lower platforms, lhdl, and everything else..
 

Da Shuffla

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And also with that, it would be nice to see pointless flashy technicals with Falco.
 

Omni_Smash

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I've been practicing counter picking with your advice and it's begining to benefit me, I play my bro's doc all the time and he screws me over so bad on FD and he's comfortable on BF but when I take him to coneria or one of the moving stages (I'm more comfortable on rainbow cruise) then the stage makes just enough difference to put him on complete defense.
 

Omni_Smash

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hmmm? No, I am not doing any uploading until next weekend when I get over to my freind's house.
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
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Include training tips, too. I'm trying to be able to hit any target at any time.
 

soap

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it was supposed to be here Saturday, but it didn't come :(.

I'll assume that means it'll be here tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest. Expect laser guide later in the week.
sounds interesting, is there anything more than SHL ledgehop double laser, and IDJ fastfall double laser? thats all i really use. i guess isai drop laser on platforms too
 

Big_R

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wtf are u guys babbling about? take everyone to rainbow cruise or floats if they ban the boat unless its fox

gg
 

LumpyCPU...

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how do you do that move where falco pulls out a gun and shoots the baddies?
 

Aznseal

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very nice thread. Whenever i play peach, i usually CP to Yoshi Story. I usually do it because the platforms make for really good shine combos and tilts. Uair also kills decently there.

Granted the SHL spam is toned down a lot but Falco's platform waveshining mobility game is grea.
 

Mogwai

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very nice thread. Whenever i play peach, i usually CP to Yoshi Story. I usually do it because the platforms make for really good shine combos and tilts. Uair also kills decently there.

Granted the SHL spam is toned down a lot but Falco's platform waveshining mobility game is grea.
As I said, it's all about your comfort level and what you find to be your strengths in a given matchup. I find YS a little cramping, even though you do gain the added benefit of low % kills off the top and side. If it's where you're comfortable vs. Peach, go for it, I just hate always having to fight Peach at close quarters.
 

LumpyCPU...

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yeah. i main peach. i have more trouble against falcos on YS more than any other stage.
 

Da Shuffla

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Lesson 2 is coming! Can't wait to show off laser skills! Keep up the good work, Mogwai.
 

Mogwai

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Mogwai's 2000th Post!

Get ready folks, it's a big one...


Lesson 2: Lasers
Section 1: Why We Jump Before Shooting
Part 1: Standing Lasers
Let's talk about the standing laser.



Standing lasers are terrible. You should already know that. Here's the frame data on shooting a standing laser, shamelessly stolen from Super Doodle Man's totally awesome site (http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/frames.html):

Standing Lasers
# of Frames until first laser after pressing B: 23
# of Frames until each subsequent laser after the first: 24
# of Frames for Falco to put away his **** gun: 34

That's right, to shoot one laser, it takes a whopping 57 frames (~1 second). If you're shooting many in a row, you get to fire at a slightly more respectable rate of 2.5 lasers/second, but you still know that when you stop mashing your little B button that you have to wait more than half a second to regain control of your character. Melee's a really fast game. Half a second is far too long to wait...



Part 2: Aerial Lasers
So now that we know that a standing laser blows, let's talk about how to still get some use out of that gun. As we all know, Falco prefers the air (“personally, I prefer the air!”), so why don’t we take a look at how the frames are different when Falco is in the air:

Aerial Lasers
# of Frames until first laser after pressing B: 13
# of Frames until each subsequent laser after the first: 16
# of Frames for Falco to put away his **** gun (still in the air): 29
# of Frames for Falco to put away his **** gun (after hitting the ground): 0 (!)

Not only is everything else about aerial lasers faster than standing lasers, but by landing mid laser, we can completely cut that infuriating half second "putting away our gun" animation. Everybody still with me? Good, cause all of your should already have known that by now. If you still don't understand yet, read Section 1 again, it's really important to understand why you don't ever want to shoot lasers if your feet are still on the ground.

Section 2: Laser Techniques
Part 1: Short Hop Laser (SHL) Variants
1.1: Stationary SHL:
The fastest way to shoot lasers at ground level, and still have control of your character when you decide to stop shooting lasers, is to short hop, quickly laser, and then quickly fast fall. This minimizes the amount of time we spend in the air to maximize the benefit we gain out of canceling the "putting away the gun" lag. The end result is the most fundamental component of Falco’s advanced laser game: the SHL:



Nothing fancy, but if you can't do this all day, don't even think of moving on to more advanced laser techs. By varying the timing of the fast fall and/or pressing "B," you should be able to control whether your laser is going high, medium or low. You should be able to hit a crouching Jiggs, shield stab a DK, and hit everywhere in between. Having control over where your lasers are going is extremely useful, so play around with the following homework:

NOTE: For all homework assignments, I suggest setting damage ratio on .5 and handicap on (put yourself at 1 and opponents at 9) to minimize the distance they move from getting hit by a laser.

HW 1.1: SHL Height Control:



Plug in one extra controller while holding up (so that the stick being at neutral will be like holding down) and two other extra controllers with no stick tricks. Select Kirby or Jigglypuff for the controller that is holding down, and Mario (or any other medium height character) and Ganon (or any other tall character) for the other 2 controllers. Go to FD and position the 3 dummy characters on one side of you ordered from shortest to tallest (crouching Kirby, then Mario, then Ganon). Practice alternating which of them you are trying to hit until you are comfortable with your ability to hit any of them on command.


1.2: Reverse SHL (RSHL):
Another essential element of Falco's Laser game is the ability to turn around midair with a Laser. By pressing the opposite direction of your facing mid-air and then letting your control stick reset to normal, you can switch the direction in which your next laser will fire. Doing this from a (more or less) stationary position will result in the following:



Again, this is really, really important. Make sure you have your fundamentals down before trying to advance. Turning around midair can be used on any aerial laser technique, so just keep that in mind when reading on. If you're phantasming more than 1% of the time when doing this, keep practicing.

HW 1.2: SHL Direction Control:

COMING SOON

3: Approaching SHL:
Now it’s time to exploit the other fantastic advantage of firing lasers from the air. By jumping first, we can effectively move Falco around the stage while still pestering our opponents with lasers. There are two essential techniques for moving with SHLs, the first of which involves just dashing and then performing a SHL. It should look something like this:



4: Retreating SHL:
Same as above, just do a RSHL instead of a SHL. The result:



Master these two as well. These techniques are your bread and butter as a Falco player, so it's important to not screw these up. Phantasms while practicing these are not acceptable. Don't shrug it off and move on, keep practicing until you don't do that anymore.

HW 1.3: Mobile SHLing

COMING SOON

Part 2: Full Hop and Double Jump Lasers
2.1: Full Hop Triple Laser:
In all honesty, this technique is just about completely obsolete. I still use it sometimes and it’s not completely terrible, but you are almost always better off with any of the other techniques in this section. The result is typically 2 lasers of almost exactly the same height at the peak of your jump and a low laser at about SHL height. There is some variation though and if you have quick timing on hitting B, you can get some variation in the result:



The nicest part about this technique is that you don’t use your 2nd jump in situations where you may get hit out of it. It’s also very easy to learn where your lasers will go depending on when you start hitting b since there is no fast falling involved.

2.2: Full Hop Double Laser (Fast Falled):
This technique really doesn’t get talked about enough. Everyone talks about the Immediate Double Jumped Double Laser recently, and for good reason, but they seem to forget that this is even an option, especially vs. Peach. You perform this tech by just full hopping with lasers ASAP and fast falling at the peak of your jump.



As you can see, the result is a high laser followed by either another high height laser or a medium height laser. This medium height laser is a real life saver vs. Peach’s who know how to float between the 2 lasers in an Immediate Double Jumped Double Laser. This technique is also very useful when jumping to a low platform, as you can get both lasers out and still land on the low platform. It also has the benefit of not using your double jump.

2.3: Immediate Double Jumped Double Laser:
I first saw this technique used by Eggm in Falco dittos and he used it to completely outclass my Full Hop Triple Laser and keep laser control for the entire match. This tech is basically everything good about Full Hop Triple Laser in fast forward. You start with a single jump, then immediately double jump with a laser and fast fall from the peak of your jump. The result is a nice crisp high laser followed by a SHL height laser:



This technique is very fast and puts the lasers at 2 of the most useful heights and, as such, is the most popular and useful of the high laser techniques. You must be careful about its usage however. Since you are double jumping, if you ever leave yourself open to getting hit out of this, it frequently results in a lost stock.

HW 2: Controlling Your High Lasers

COMING SOON

Part 3: Ledge and Platform Lasers
3.1: Ledge Hop Double Laser (LHDL):
LHDL is a vital component to many Falcos' "recovering from the ledge" game. While holding the ledge, drop and fast fall to as low as you can while still being able to double jump onto the stage. Once you're at that point, IMEDIATELY double jump AND start firing your first laser. I do this by hitting the left-most part of the Y button with the tip of my thumb and B with the center of the my thumb, but the finger technique is up to you, do what feels comfortable. After that, quickly start holding towards the stage and then tap B again to shoot your second laser. You can vary the point at which you double jump to change the height of the lasers, but it's good to know the lowest point and use that as your default as it will minimize your vulnerability and air time.



While this technique is powerful, it's also very easy to overuse. Don't forget that you have other options from the ledge and that you aren't fully covered by invulnerability in this maneuver or you'll soon find yourself victim to well spaced and timed smashes and tilts taking your stock.

HW 3.1: Low LHDLing

COMING SOON

3.2: Drop Double Jump Double Laser:
This is basically a way to look really cool and change up the height and rhythm of low height lasers that you could otherwise be shooting by just SHLing. You can do this technique near a ledge or through a platform. The first part is to either run off a ledge or drop through a platform and start fast falling. Then you quickly double jump and double laser the same way you would with a LHDL.



When running off a ledge, you are typically going to want to turn around with your lasers, but sometimes you will be using it to shoot off stage. Either way, make sure your lasers are going the way that you want them to go.

HW 3.2.1: Ledge Drop Height Control

COMING SOON

HW 3.2.2: Platform Drop Height Control

COMING SOON

3.3: Short Hop Double Laser Platform Dismount:
When moving down from a low platform to the stage, you can SHL without fast falling to shoot a laser at platform height and another laser at stage height. You can also do this when moving down from a high platform to a low platform.



3.4: Platform Laser Drop:
Another technique for moving from a platform to the stage. With this one, instead of jumping, you just drop through the platform and fire immediately from a side platform and fast fall and fire from a high platform. This is a very useful technique for platform laser games and I highly suggest playing around with this one a lot to get a good feel for it.



At this point, you have all the techniques you need to have some ballin’ lasers. From here, you just need to keep the techs sharp and use them in game to produce your collective laser game.

Section 3: Advanced Laser Theory
Part 1: Laser Spacing
Late one night after an SPOC, I was hanging out with Scar and Cactuar. This was shortly after Cactuar’s impressive performance at Evo East where he took out Forward, among others. Scar, being completely beat after running a sizable tourney, quickly fell asleep and I got to talking to Cactus about his help thread. One thing led to another and I started asking him about how he moves around lasers so well and seems to be able to completely stifle even the best Falcos’ laser games with his movement. His theories and the complexity with which he views the game are a bit too much to try to explain in a forum like this, but the part I found particularly interesting is how he sees his spacing vs. Falco.

Consider the distance covered by an approaching SHL as a unit of measurement.



Let’s call that 1 SHL in distance.

At a distance of 1 SHL, you are in good shape as Falco. An approaching SHL will put you right on top of your opponent, so if they’re sitting in shield you can just lasergrab them. A stationary SHL is safe, as the opponent cannot adequately follow up a powershield at this distance. A retreating SHL is also safe, as not even CF can get on top of you in the time it takes to complete a SHL to get a running powershield grab. 1SHL is where Falco wants to be. So where does that leave the shmuck without the gun? As a character playing against Falco, you want to be around 0.5SHL away from Falco, as suddenly stationary and approaching SHLs become terrible options. Even without the threat of a powershield, one can typically space an aerial against a stationary SHL at 0.5 SHL, and an approaching SHL won’t come out in time to protect against any fast move your opponent can use to disrupt the SHL. This leaves only retreating SHLs as a safe option, and there's only so long you can retreat before such a move will put you off stage.

So through dashes and waveshielding, Cactuar’s Marth slowly plays distance games with your Falco until you find yourself at the dreaded 0.5 SHL distance. The trick is to be aware of this distance and when your lasers are no longer a safe option, to approach and shield pressure, play defensively, or run away and attempt to re-play the distance game. It’s not easy, and it’s not necessarily intuitive, but if you start trying to see spacing like this and pay attention to when your lasers are no longer good, you may find that you’re not getting wrecked as hard for shooting so many lasers.

Part 2: The Running Powershield:
This is becoming a more and more popular tactic from Marths, Sheiks, Foxes, and CFs to counter laser games. While they still have mobility, the character will dash towards you as you fire your first laser. They powershield the laser back at you at very short range and do some sort of follow up, typically a grab. When this happens, it really throws Falcos that rely on lasers for board controller off their game. Recognizing when your opponent has a chance to get you with this comes only from experience, but hopefully you’ll learn fast. In these situations, what you need is to keep your opponent guessing. As soon as he’s 100% sure you’re going to shoot the laser, you’re in trouble. I like to mix up empty shorthop -> waveland -> shine/grab against running powershielders. Doing this keeps your opponent guessing as to what your next move is going to be and is very important if you want to throw them off their game.

Part 3: A Suggestion
This may sound hard to believe, but I am a firm believer that taking a break from firing lasers in a friendly setting will vastly improve any laser-happy Falco’s game. Having arguably the most powerful projectile in the game can really become a crutch that Falcos will lean on. By taking a break, you will gain some perspective on when and why lasers are so good and when and why they aren’t. I could write 100 pages on this topic, but ultimately, experience is the best teacher. Put the gun away for a smashfest. Make a conscious effort to not shoot lasers in friendlies for a week/month. You’ll be surprised how much you learn.




Rest of the HWs will be up later, I just need to do .gifs and rethink some of them. but if you find the first one helpful, no worries, the rest will be up within the next week or so.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
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Nuuuuu, my laser spacing secrets. You can't just reverse engineer my advice. :laugh:

Seriously though, good read. It's cool to see people still putting effort into helping the community. Even if Falco is a laser happy ***got.
 

Scar

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Nuuuuu, my laser spacing secrets. You can't just reverse engineer my advice. :laugh:

Seriously though, good read. It's cool to see people still putting effort into helping the community. Even if Falco is a laser happy ***got.
Yeah I hate Falco, he blows. I am going to think about these things and see if I can incorporate them with CF vs gay Falcos.
 

soap

Smash Hero
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these gifs are hilarious, standing laser to tipper... crouching jiggs, mario, ganon laser ladder. *starts reading*

cool, learned some tricks, didnt know about the platform dismount double thing

u should add isai drop lasers, with those u can do the lambchops triple lasers, full jump double laser onto platform, isai drop a third, but u have other options from the platform of course.

isai drop laser is useful in many situations, i just noticed in the gif for platform fall thru u wait and do the slow fall thru
 

Mogwai

Smash Gizmo
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these gifs are hilarious, standing laser to tipper... crouching jiggs, mario, ganon laser ladder. *starts reading*

cool, learned some tricks, didnt know about the platform dismount double thing

u should add isai drop lasers, with those u can do the lambchops triple lasers, full jump double laser onto platform, isai drop a third, but u have other options from the platform of course.

isai drop laser is useful in many situations, i just noticed in the gif for platform fall thru u wait and do the slow fall thru
Well, it's not fundamental. As you said it's a combination of platform drop laser and full jump double laser.

Honestly, I don't know what people call an Isai Drop. I'd assume you just mean a platform dropped laser like I showed, but with a fast fall (which I physically cannot do) or by running off a platform, laser -> fast fall, which I can do. I suppose I should show the 2nd one there, but to talk about how you can string all the fundamental techniques together is a hopeless task.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

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Isai drop is when you walk a little bit during the landing animation so you can drop immidietly (instead of having to wait for it to finish)

This was a great read btw. Thanks for keeping these boards alive & interesting. :)

btw, I see that questions are welcome... can you ask questions that aren't regarding the latest "lesson"?

If so, I have questions about falco's grab game.
I want to know what you can do out of throws, what are the best combos from uthrow, etc.
Can uthrow reliably combo most chars or should I dthrow tech-chase instead?
Are there any "tricks" you can do with bthrow/fthrow or should I stick to uthrow and dthrow?
what are the best follow up's from uthrow on different chars? (mainly interested in fox/falco and marth)
 

Mogwai

Smash Gizmo
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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
Isai drop is when you walk a little bit during the landing animation so you can drop immidietly (instead of having to wait for it to finish)

This was a great read btw. Thanks for keeping these boards alive & interesting. :)

btw, I see that questions are welcome... can you ask questions that aren't regarding the latest "lesson"?

If so, I have questions about falco's grab game.
I want to know what you can do out of throws, what are the best combos from uthrow, etc.
Can uthrow reliably combo most chars or should I dthrow tech-chase instead?
Are there any "tricks" you can do with bthrow/fthrow or should I stick to uthrow and dthrow?
what are the best follow up's from uthrow on different chars? (mainly interested in fox/falco and marth)
Falco's grab game is very marginal, but it's still important to take advantage of the grabs that you can get.

UThrow has hardly any reliable combos per say, but it frequently leads into any aerial you can line up, usually fair/nair/bair. If the lasers hit, the opponent can typically get out of any combo, but if they DI such that the lasers don't hit, you usually have a guaranteed nair/bair. On the whole, I find these pseudo combos to be more reliable than the dthrow tech-chase, because your opponent has so many options and Falco has to commit to a direction do to his poor dash dance and run speed.

Off of shine-grabs or a grab that you mix into a combo (dair -> shine -> wd -> utilt -> grab on Fox, I do it a lot more than I should), your opponent is usually caught off guard and you can do some cute things. Vs. Foxes, I almost always mix in one imediate dthrow cg as they're rarely prepared to shine/grab/spot dodge out the way they would if they saw the grab coming. I've done this to Cactuar and PC and even they rarely catch me out of a single dthrow cg off of an awkward grab. After that, I hit them a couple times since they rarely mash out(they're now concentrating on not letting you do that lame shit again), and then typically do uthrow and try to follow up with a nair. On non Fox characters, I recommend either immediate dthrow -> dsmash (frequently miss techs), or uthrow -> standard aerial followup.

fthrow blows pretty hard, I'd only really use it to get someone off stage. bthrow vs Fox/Falco/CF very very very frequently leads into a free ftilt. People used to do fsmash after a bthrow, but that rarely works these days. Ftilt on the other hand is much safer and almost always works when a fast faller is under 50%. Whenever I get a grab where a I bthrow my fast falling opponent off stage, I typically bthrow -> ftilt off stage (frequently angled downward). Against good players, this is your best option as it gives you a nice edgeguarding opportunity. Against less good players who like to dj immediately off stage, it's often a free stock as it eats their jump.
 
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