Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[NotAnAdmin]

I think I've just gotten used to his grab, but yes, it could use a slight pick me up in speed.
If it's going to have such short range, it needs the speed to cover Falco's butt when it wiffs from his lackluster speed.

 

[Cyro]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but while playing today I happened to notice that my Fire Bird auto canceled similarly to the way SodrekR found the auto cancel for Fox's Fire Fox. I forgot to save the replay, but I'll be experimenting with stuff later. Just wanted to see if this has happened to anybody else.

 

[Ffamran]

Not sure if this has been discussed before, but while playing today I happened to notice that my Fire Bird auto canceled similarly to the way SodrekR found the auto cancel for Fox's Fire Fox. I forgot to save the replay, but I'll be experimenting with stuff later. Just wanted to see if this has happened to anybody else.

Plain Yogurt figured this and Lavani has said that certain moves like Sheik's Vanish, Fox's Fire Fox, Falco's Fire Bird, and maybe some other moves can sort of auto-cancel if you land before helpless fall.

Anyway, Keitaro on Smash 4-Ever 20 just used Explosive Blaster to Side Smash since Explosive Blaster kind of functions like Sheik's Gravity Grenade.

 

[Pazx]

Falco can jab lock with the first hit of utilt. Your opponent has to be in front of you and on a platform (probably). It's hard to pull off consistently but you can guarantee an upsmash or bair after up to 3 utilts which is pretty neat.

 

[BlueBirdE]

You can also jab lock with a bair at low percents. Its good to use since u can cover options if they tech and deals good damage. Have to look into more and see if u can do anything else

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Is jab lock referring to neutral A like Fox's jab lock?

 

[Ffamran]

Is jab lock referring to neutral A like Fox's jab lock?

Info on locks here: http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki/Lock.

Anyway, do you think we should start a Falco doubles thread? I don't know much about doubles and I don't know how Falco works with the rest of the characters during doubles and maybe triples and quads if those ever become a thing.

 

[Zionaze]

Honestly have no knowledge of doubles so that would help me out

 

[Ffamran]

Welp, finished updating the frame data thread and Falco's new aerials clock at an average of 8 frames of startup (3 Nair, 4 Bair, 7 Uair, 10 Fair, and 16 Dair = 40 / 5 = 8) and 18.6 frames of landing lag (15 Nair, Uair, and Bair, 23 Dair, and 25 Fair = 93 / 5 = 18.6). In the past, his aerials clocked at 11 frames of startup (Uair was 10 and Fair 12; total was 55 / 5 = 11) and 20 frames of landing lag (Fair was 32 and Dair was 23, but erroneously listed as 26; total was 100). Not a huge change, but a good change nonetheless. Oh, and thank Falco's Dair startup for skewing everything; he could have had a much faster startup average.

Fox's aerials clock at an average of 6.8 (4 Nair, 5 Dair, 7 Fair, and 9 Uair and Bair = 34 / 5 = 6.8) and 20 frames of landing lag (11 Nair, 15 Bair, 22 Uair, 25 Dair, and 27 Fair = 100 / 5 = 20). Both of them can auto-cancel Nair, Bair, and I believe Uair - not sure with Fox's Uair - while their Fair and Dair don't. Kind of close to each other now. Now if only Falco was a bit faster and we could abuse the hell out of our quicker aerials even more.

Honestly have no knowledge of doubles so that would help me out

Yeah, I never done doubles before except on For Glory and we know that kind of mess... Not sure how Falco would work with everyone. I might make a doubles thread, but if people really want it or if I'm really bored. Thing is Falco could be the hitman for teams since he's strong and his edgeguarding is phenomenal, but the issue is like most hitman, he doesn't wear a lot of armor, so he can't really tank things like Ganondorf or Ike and he's not fast like Fox or Little Mac who would be like assassins or more quicker violent... people. Sheik is the ultimate support buddy apparently and Zelda does much better in doubles than singles and there's Villager, but Villager can't really make use of Falco's projectiles unlike Zelda, Samus, and Mega Man's.

 

[Zionaze]

Falcos new Dair that pops them up could be a potential new team combo starter, untechable and relatively high hitstun

 

[ArhyLis]

Has anyone noticed when you b reverse Fire Bird at times, Falco will shift/slide in the air? Wouldn't that be useful during recovering, and avoiding potential gimps? I haven't figured out exactly how to execute it.

 

[Ffamran]

Falcos new Dair that pops them up could be a potential new team combo starter, untechable and relatively high hitstun

Only problem is startup, but that never stopped people from landing Volcano Kicks with Ganondorf.

Hmm, I'm curious what would happen if Falco lost the ability to spike with Dair entirely and Dair became say, a frame 9 move that was basically a "vertical Bair". Of course it can't be as strong as Bair, but if sweet-spotting it sent people at an 80 degree angle and the late hit sent people at a Sakurai angle... It'd be one weird move, but one that nobody has and as strong as recoveries are in this game, even a weak spike getting at the right place like with Kirby's Dair or Zelda's late hit Dair is deadly. The only issue is how to not make it OP. Case in point: Rosalina's Uair which is cool, but when she's got good air speed, good jump, and good disjoint on it, it makes Link, Ike, Ganondorf, and Zelda's Uair's look weak. The thing is that Falco jumps really high and if he catches someone near the ceiling and below him, a Dair like that would be fatal or if he catches someone whiffing a followup that high up. Just some musings.

Has anyone noticed when you b reverse Fire Bird at times, Falco will shift/slide in the air? Wouldn't that be useful during recovering, and avoiding potential gimps? I haven't figured out exactly how to execute it.

Yeah, never understood that. When it happens, it happens.

 

[Zionaze]

more of a momentum kind of thing for the firebird to slide during startup

 

[ArhyLis]

more of a momentum kind of thing for the firebird to slide during startup

Yeah, I went to experiment with it, and it doesn't really give much on second thought.

 

[Zionaze]

Yeah, I went to experiment with it, and it doesn't really give much on second thought.

actually this is super important cuz that slide could actually shorten the distance on your already bad up-b

 

[ArhyLis]

actually this is super important cuz that slide could actually shorten the distance on your already bad up-b

This is true, but the unfortunate thing is you have to be carrying momentum going the opposite direction to get the slide. Unless... you up-b after getting sent flying... not sure that works well though. What do you think?

 

[Zionaze]

its a lot more abuse able after you wall jump because the way you slide is based on where your facing. so you press up-b and then immediately slide your stick to the opposite direction your facing. try doing it in training mode at 1/4th speed

 

[ArhyLis]

its a lot more abuse able after you wall jump because the way you slide is based on where your facing. so you press up-b and then immediately slide your stick to the opposite direction your facing. try doing it in training mode at 1/4th speed

Right! I remember doing that in training mode, and that does help position yourself.

 

[Zionaze]

Right! I remember doing that in training mode, and that does help position yourself.

stages like arena ferox where the stage shape is like a Y makes this a lot easier to do

 

[BltzZ]

Welp, finished updating the frame data thread and Falco's new aerials clock at an average of 8 frames of startup (3 Nair, 4 Bair, 7 Uair, 10 Fair, and 16 Dair = 40 / 5 = 8) and 18.6 frames of landing lag (15 Nair, Uair, and Bair, 23 Dair, and 25 Fair = 93 / 5 = 18.6). In the past, his aerials clocked at 11 frames of startup (Uair was 10 and Fair 12; total was 55 / 5 = 11) and 20 frames of landing lag (Fair was 32 and Dair was 23, but erroneously listed as 26; total was 100). Not a huge change, but a good change nonetheless. Oh, and thank Falco's Dair startup for skewing everything; he could have had a much faster startup average.

Fox's aerials clock at an average of 6.8 (4 Nair, 5 Dair, 7 Fair, and 9 Uair and Bair = 34 / 5 = 6.8) and 20 frames of landing lag (11 Nair, 15 Bair, 22 Uair, 25 Dair, and 27 Fair = 100 / 5 = 20). Both of them can auto-cancel Nair, Bair, and I believe Uair - not sure with Fox's Uair - while their Fair and Dair don't. Kind of close to each other now. Now if only Falco was a bit faster and we could abuse the hell out of our quicker aerials even more.


Yeah, I never done doubles before except on For Glory and we know that kind of mess... Not sure how Falco would work with everyone. I might make a doubles thread, but if people really want it or if I'm really bored. Thing is Falco could be the hitman for teams since he's strong and his edgeguarding is phenomenal, but the issue is like most hitman, he doesn't wear a lot of armor, so he can't really tank things like Ganondorf or Ike and he's not fast like Fox or Little Mac who would be like assassins or more quicker violent... people. Sheik is the ultimate support buddy apparently and Zelda does much better in doubles than singles and there's Villager, but Villager can't really make use of Falco's projectiles unlike Zelda, Samus, and Mega Man's.

Using Falcos offstage forcing people to recover high and having the teammate follow up harassing the people above. I've played a good amount of doubles with falco. Falling up airs can do work, practice combos off Falco's grabs like down throw up throw. Good team members for falco I find are lucario, ZSS, Ike, Captain falcon.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

WhenI try to FF nair's last hit, either the opponent is free (probably because I FF'd too early) or it doesn't seem like I've fast fallen at all. Any tips?

Also, what are the best edgeguard options/setups?

 

[BltzZ]

WhenI try to FF nair's last hit, either the opponent is free (probably because I FF'd too early) or it doesn't seem like I've fast fallen at all. Any tips?

Also, what are the best edgeguard options/setups?

It also depends on opponents DI as well, I noticed this weekend during a few sets. This video helped me understand exactly when you FF. You can see the stun from the last hit occuring. It's almost muscle memory now for me. Remember also works on a certain amount of time varying on different characters too.

https://youtu.be/ui6LYdHTyH8

At lower percents maybe 30-40 if I grab someone by the edge I'll opt for a d throw to SH nair and try to follow up with a fair. Most of the time it doesn't combo at all its just a scare tactic because all hits won't connect on the fair, you just want to read the jump or airdodge and try to hit the last hit fair on them for a early kill/gimp. You can do the same with up throw by the edge but I feel the the gimp rate isn't as great because you still leave them kind of high. Overall the D throw to me is a better option it keeps them leveled with the stage or even below.

Edit: just realized I did a variation of the set up in the beginning of this video and again at 1:48
https://youtu.be/bVW-Tt8UUqs

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

It also depends on opponents DI as well, I noticed this weekend during a few sets. This video helped me understand exactly when you FF. You can see the stun from the last hit occuring. It's almost muscle memory now for me. Remember also works on a certain amount of time varying on different characters too.

https://youtu.be/ui6LYdHTyH8

At lower percents maybe 30-40 if I grab someone by the edge I'll opt for a d throw to SH nair and try to follow up with a fair. Most of the time it doesn't combo at all its just a scare tactic because all hits won't connect on the fair, you just want to read the jump or airdodge and try to hit the last hit fair on them for a early kill/gimp. You can do the same with up throw by the edge but I feel the the gimp rate isn't as great because you still leave them kind of high. Overall the D throw to me is a better option it keeps them leveled with the stage or even below.

Edit: just realized I did a variation of the set up in the beginning of this video and again at 1:48
https://youtu.be/bVW-Tt8UUqs

Thanks, and I subbed as well, awesome Falco! For the nair chain, before the fastfall, is the player inputting forward while nairing? I've been trying with both forward DI while nairing and no DI before the FF, and I feel forward DIing ensures the chain better.

 

[BltzZ]

Thanks, and I subbed as well, awesome Falco! For the nair chain, before the fastfall, is the player inputting forward while nairing? I've been trying with both forward DI while nairing and no DI before the FF, and I feel forward DIing ensures the chain better.

Actually I didn't realize it till you mentioned it, but yeah you're keeping the momentum moving forward. Thanks for the sub! Even tho nair is a 4 hit move off one button press I count the hits by constantly tapping A on the 3rd and even 4th hit I FF. This way I can develop a reflex for it.

 

[LightLV]

just popping in here to say, the recent changes to falco's aerials made me really like playing him. He is very much rewarded for jumping out there now, and he's even more dangerous in the air than before.

 

[Spark31]

I've noticed that people have been canceling falco's jab on edge. I've done it once or twice on accident, but I'm wondering how it's actually done.

 

[hypersonicJD]

Falco has gotten alot better now. His Forward air has to be one of his most versitle moves. And I also love the changes on his Up Air. I would like an increased hitbox though.

 

[Shade.]

I've noticed that people have been canceling falco's jab on edge. I've done it once or twice on accident, but I'm wondering how it's actually done.

Use the jab finisher while you're on the edge of the stage, facing away from the center. Falco will step off with the forward lunge from it. At low percents, you can fall with your opponent and use the aerial of your choice that'll reach them, Nair and Fair are guaranteed I think. At higher percents, you'll have to double jump once you're off the stage to follow their trajectory, DI-dependent. You can't always catch them depending on their percent.

 

[Spark31]

Use the jab finisher while you're on the edge of the stage, facing away from the center. Falco will step off with the forward lunge from it. At low percents, you can fall with your opponent and use the aerial of your choice that'll reach them, Nair and Fair are guaranteed I think. At higher percents, you'll have to double jump once you're off the stage to follow their trajectory, DI-dependent. You can't always catch them depending on their percent.

Interesting, I've done that before but I'm not getting it 100% of the time. Is it because the hits of the jab make him move farther than the edge.

 

[Sozain]

True Combo d-throw to d-air
At 26%-40% Falco can down throw to d-air. After the d-throw, run a bit then short hop d-air. If the d-air puts the opponent off-stage, Falco can do an reliable footstool (mash jump). Works on most if not all characters.

 

[Vyrnx]

I'm really struggling with Falco's jump canceled up smash. I know how to do a JCUS, but it seems like Falco barely moves at all, and that the usmash whiffs a lot. The knockback is good, but it doesn't seem like his JCUS is reliable. Does anyone have thoughts on how to fix this?

Also, does Falco's jab combo into itself like Fox's jab? Like jab 1, jab 2, wait, jab 1, jab 2, etc. I've gotten three in a row on FG pretty often but have never tried for more. Also, training doesn't register it as a combo, but it also doesn't register Fox's jab as a combo, when everyone knows it is.

 

[Ffamran]

For those of you who like using RAR Bairs and find short hopping them difficult compared to other characters with shorter jumps like Wolf, Dr. Mario, Fox, etc., try VaBengal's double stick method. It does require that you use tap jump which hey, if you play other fighting games, it might not be a problem, but if you really hate it or feel you might accidentally jump, then try to un-hate it or practice until Utilts, Up Smashes, and Up Specials come out without accidental jumps.

I'm really struggling with Falco's jump canceled up smash. I know how to do a JCUS, but it seems like Falco barely moves at all, and that the usmash whiffs a lot. The knockback is good, but it doesn't seem like his JCUS is reliable. Does anyone have thoughts on how to fix this?

Falco in general doesn't slide forward much at all which sucks since his Dash Attack had momentum allowing him to have a longer slide with DACUS. Falco's jump-canceled Up Smash doesn't travel much as seen here: https://youtu.be/spHWz-9F7cQ?t=75, compared to Fox's. At the same time, I don't think a lot of Falco players have messed with his JCUS much, so there's that too.

Also, does Falco's jab combo into itself like Fox's jab? Like jab 1, jab 2, wait, jab 1, jab 2, etc. I've gotten three in a row on FG pretty often but have never tried for more. Also, training doesn't register it as a combo, but it also doesn't register Fox's jab as a combo, when everyone knows it is.

He can't unlike as he has longer end lag compared to Fox. Fox, Sheik, King Dedede, Luigi, and more can jab cancel their jabs quickly into another action. Link, Toon Link, Captain Falcon, Marth, Lucina, Falco, and Charizard can do this as well, but not as fast. Of them all, only Fox can rapidly jab repeat as the way his jab sends people, how fast he can act of or repeat it, and Fox moving forward makes it work very well. Ike is another character who can do this, especially now with his jab changes in patch 1.0.8. Fox's jab was always like this as he could always hit confirm it into Up Smash in 64, Melee, and Brawl, but different games and how they functioned made his jab not as potent as in 64 and Smash 4. Falco used to be able to do this in Melee - he was Fox's clone - and Brawl where he could jab to grab quicker than he could in Smash 4. At this point, Falco's jab cancel and jab repeat is more mixup dependent than actually something he can do like Fox, Sheik, Ike, and Luigi. Maybe he'll have his jab changed like Ike's since it wasn't an actual issue in Brawl where he could lock you to death, but something he could do to quickly confirm a grab. Samus's needs a fix too since the in-game tips does say her jab is meant for mixups, but it's not reliable at all.

 

[Sozain]

At the same time, I don't think a lot of Falco players have messed with his JCUS much, so there's that too.

d-throw true combo
0%-30% reliable d-throw dash JCUS (very good DI can escape)
30%-50% not very reliable d-throw dash JCUS (almost any DI escapes)

This is what a JCUS should look like:

The Falco Dair Cancel doesn't work in this patch.

 

[Ffamran]

This is what a JCUS should look like:

Which is what I linked in my post...

The Falco Dair Cancel doesn't work in this patch.

Yes and no. Yes, it still works since frame canceling was never removed in any of the patch and why would it when it's difficult to do with slow moves during fights. No, it doesn't, but only because Falco's Dair no longer spikes grounded opponents. Now, it sends people up at an 80 degree angle. The patch changed it so Falco's Dair functions like his Falco Phantasm where it will spike people in the air, but it will not spike people on the ground. The late hit of Dair wasn't changed. This is good for Falco since his Dair spike has hit lag which Captain Falcon's doesn't and while Ganondorf's does, it's really powerful - it'll spike at 0% while other spikes are only powerful after a certain percent - and sends people down fast. So, he can't Dair lock with frame cancelled spikes anymore - he can still do it with the late hit -, but Falco can setup using Dair a bit more reliably since it can't be teched anymore if he hits grounded opponents. Now, if only Dair was faster...

 

[Sozain]

Yes and no. Yes, it still works since frame canceling was never removed in any of the patch and why would it when it's difficult to do with slow moves during fights. No, it doesn't, but only because Falco's Dair no longer spikes grounded opponents. Now, it sends people up at an 80 degree angle.

Huh,
I never made the connection to the patch change of his Dair and me wiffing Dair Cancel. Guess it should have been evident.

 

[Shaya]

Up Air Frame trap into bair is super easy.
Landing with nair needs to be explored, either timing the last hit for grounded opponents for it's good-ish range or hitting people and fast falling (or whatever) to get a combo/follow up.
In the latter's case it's been inconsistent. I think nair to dtilt for a kill could be a real thing for Falco to look for but sometimes it's certain there isn't enough hit stun/there's too much lag on hits to get any follow up (heck I'm sure people have been punished thus far with it).

Learn to jc reverse up smash. The hitbox behind his head is not only reliable, it feels LARGE. It's a really good move in general now IMO. Stupid amount of damage, low enough endlag to follow up on it (back facing up smash -> back air boys). Yeah, up smash is pretty awesome.

Dash attack into fair as a confirm on most DI from an opponent. Pretty ez.

Hold A baby. Jab is pretty amazing. I think some characters can still pop out of it/shield but it's very few now. But otherwise it's size/range and start up is superb.

While it's likely placebo, for whatever reason back air feels a lot easier to hit with (could just be ZSS training). Although dancing blade got fixed with no hitbox changes apparently, so maybe something is small and hidden.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Any tips on Sheik? She's always out of range for a punish due to her laglessness. She could jab through my neutral A as well.

 

[Ffamran]

Any tips on Sheik? She's always out of range for a punish due to her laglessness. She could jab through my neutral A as well.

Head over here: smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-falco-matchup-discussion-16-sheik-hayabusa-heroes.395129/.

Or use the temporary MU directory here: http://smashboards.com/threads/all-aircraft-report-falco-directory.398704/.

 

[Pazx]

Someone give me an overview of Falco's customs por favor. Which ones are good and in which situations are they good?

Blasters: are they all trash?
Side B: is phase worth taking in matchups where you get edgeguarded?
Fire Bird: is the default the worst?
Reflector: in which matchups should I be using default over void?

 

[Ffamran]

Someone give me an overview of Falco's customs por favor. Which ones are good and in which situations are they good?

Blasters: are they all trash?
Side B: is phase worth taking in matchups where you get edgeguarded?
Fire Bird: is the default the worst?
Reflector: in which matchups should I be using default over void?

These guys made a video on their impressions on Falco's customs... People still don't know about Fast Fire Bird's Fire Slide... I think people even just figured out about F-throw to Falco Phantasm which isn't a true combo; it's just a neat gimp. It's like the buffs to Falco introduced Falco as a DLC character in Smash 4... Reflector Void also reflects physical projectiles like Dr. Mario's Pills, but it'll void Mario's Fireballs which are energy-based.

My rundown would be this: Blaster = Burst Blaster = Explosive Blaster. They're all dependent on MUs and preference like Fox's. Blaster's your default, can stun, can gimp option that has stupid end lag when you compare Luigi and Sheik's projectiles, Burst Blaster is there if you just want to tack on damage and have less end lag, but it won't stun, and Explosive Blaster is there if you want another edgeguard option and something similar to Sheik's Gravity Grenade - if you hit the back of the blast, it'll send the opponent towards you allowing Falco to Side Smash, grab, etc.

Falco Phantasm = Falco Phase >=? Falco Charge. Falco Phantasm soft spikes, is a burst movement, and it travels the furthest of the three at 1/2 of FD. The only issue? A FUBAR'd hitbox that lets Falco get hit during the move and hitting in front of him and the end lag pretty much makes Falco a sitting pheasant. Nothing much to say here. Falco Phase is literally an long roll, but I think it travels faster and has less startup than Falco Phantasm. If you don't care for Falco Phantasm and just want a safe recovery, then use this, but make sure to not land onto the stage since Falco will suffer from end lag. Falco Phase also travels slightly less than Falco Phantasm - about 1/3 of FD. Falco Charge is underwhelming because the sour-spot is really weak, it can hit with the sour-spot at point-blank, the sweet-spot's not strong either, and it travels like 1/4 of FD. There's like nothing great as now about it. If it had super armor, lower startup, or was stronger, then sure, it could be a ranged Side Smash which it is, but the sour-spot makes it seem like a pathetic version of Captain Falcon's sour-spot Knee or Zelda's sour-spot Lightning Kick.

Fire Bird >= Fast Fire Bird > Distant Fire Bird. First off, Falco goes deep enough where most characters can't with his jump, wall jump, and Fire Bird. Fire Bird is just *** compared to Fire Fox and Fire Wolf - of all the things to not make like Wolf's -, but compared to Distant Fire Bird, default Fire Bird is just safer. Why? Fire Bird only travels about a 1/3 of Final Destination, charges slow like Fire Fox, but it travels fairly quickly. It still sucks for killing and the fact it doesn't have a strong hit at all even with the last hit makes it have like no priority. Distant Fire Bird travels half of Final Destination - it travels less than Fox's default Fire Fox -, but charges even slower, travels slower, and it still has no priority. The fact people still use Fire Bird/Fox right next to ledge is something that's going to be more punishable when Distant Fire Bird charges slower. It's slow travel speed would make timing spikes and stage spikes easier. The reasons people use Distant Fire Bird is that it "makes Falco's recovery better" and "let's him edgeguard better". Really? How does it make his recovery better? If it's just distance, then that's not anything when you have slower charge time and slower travel speed. Little Mac's Rising Uppercut travels almost nowhere mid-air, but it's really safe if it so much as touches you. Edgeguarding, well, Falco doesn't even need to go far to edgeguard since most people can't go far.

Between launching at frame 44 with Fire Bird for an already crappy move in general that travels 1/3 of FD with launching at frame 52 with a slower moving version of a crappy move that covers 1/2 of FD now, I'd rather recover a bit closer with a faster moving recovery option. Oh, and Distant Fire Bird doesn't have a hitbox when it's charging. It's like Melee's Fire Bird if it traveled further, but slower.

Fast Fire Bird depends on if you are willing to sacrifice a little of default Fire Bird's distance for almost no charge time, faster travel speed, and giving Falco another burst movement. Coupled with Falco Phantasm or Falco Phase, Falco would have 2 burst movements and one of them can travel in several directions. Launching at frame 13 - it has 6 frames less startup than Falco Phantasm -, traveling slightly less than default Fire Bird in the air - on the ground, Falco slides, but you can shorten it by holding down -, and acting as burst movement pretty much makes this a safer recovery option that Falco can use to chase opponents on the ground. On stages with walls, Falco can just wall jump to make the difference of default Fire Bird. The startup does make it difficult to control and Falco will shoot in a direction which could lead to SDs.

Reflector = Reflector Void > Accele-Reflector. Reflector is a fast spacing tool that you need to hit or else since the end lag is pretty long. Use it for MUs where there's lots of projectiles and useful projectiles to reflect back or against faster characters. Reflector Void coming out at frame 13 might not work against say, Sonic who is a living projectile, but whatever. Against Ganondorf, Shulk, or Mario? Sure, go ahead. Reflector Void is essentially a slower version of Melee Reflector, but with more horizontal range. It'll kill if you're high enough and that's no problem for Falco. It's another launcher and kill move for Falco. Accele-Reflector is kind of like Wolf's Reflector where it speeds up projectiles, but it's not safe like Wolf's. It has the same end lag as default Reflector, but does 2%, has little to no knockback, only reflects when sent out, and it's 4 frames slower. It's just not a safe option when Reflector comes out faster and can be used for poking and spacing.