Q&A Falco, King of the Birds: Game Play Discussion

[Ffamran]

As it stands, Falco has the 10th fastest walk in the game while his dash speed is tied with 3 others at 35 - he's slower than Ike for reference. Pivot walking, perfect pivots, and foxtrots are all options Falco should use along with short hop feints, fast fall short hops, IAP (Instant Aerial Phantasm), and his dash even if it's not that fast in the long run.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

That 's funny even though I know that his dash is slow as heck, I don't ever walk too often.
He does need a boost in run speed though, I swear Sakurai just doesn't like Falco.

 

[Ffamran]

That 's funny even though I know that his dash is slow as heck, I don't ever walk too often.
He does need a boost in run speed though, I swear Sakurai just doesn't like Falco.

The wiki said his Dash Speed increased from Brawl to SSB4. It was like a decimal increase, like an added 0.0232 or something which is kind of pointless. I've mentioned it before and probably here, but it's kind of stupid that Ike who's wearing armor, carrying a two-handed sword, and looks less like a sprinter and more of a endurance runner can run faster than a scrawny, shinguard wearing, clothed pheasant whose heaviest item is probably either his beak or his Blaster.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

The wiki said his Dash Speed increased from Brawl to SSB4. It was like a decimal increase, like an added 0.0232 or something which is kind of pointless. I've mentioned it before and probably here, but it's kind of stupid that Ike who's wearing armor, carrying a two-handed sword, and looks less like a sprinter and more of a endurance runner can run faster than a scrawny, shinguard wearing, clothed pheasant whose heaviest item is probably either his beak or his Blaster.

Falco needs to go to Slippy for a tune-up, if Fox can run with his metal legs then Falco needs to at least have a mid-tier dash.

Also believe it or not but in Path of Radiance Ike actually has good speed and is one of the faster characters in the game, idk about Radiant Dawn but he should also be faster in that game due to higher stat caps. For context, Ike can be as fast as or faster than pegasus knights and swordsmen in way less armor than he's in. Ike can double enemies like it's nothing. I don't know why Sakurai chose to represent him as some burly lunkhead swordsman when he's actually quick on his feet like Marth despite that huge sword of his.

Er, were we talking about Falco?

 

[Ffamran]

The issue with speed is what are we talking about? Speed in attacking or movement. Ike in both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn would be more like fast in attacking which would be insane in SSB. Could you imagine him swinging Ragnell faster than Marth or hitting as fast as Captain Falcon? Ike and his father, Greil, had a unique fighting style and they were known for using longswords and two-handed swords with one hand. He could be slow while running and stuff, but if he could cut you down in a heartbeat, it wouldn't matter as much. Ike having good air speed is fine since momentum reasons, but running faster than Falco doesn't. Falco should be faster because he's more lightweight while Ike's lugging around a two-handed sword and armor.

Falco's on the other spectrum, similar to Dr. Mario, where he's slow in movement, but he hits fast. For balancing reasons, he should be faster than say, Pit - I think Pit's dash speed is fairly fast. He should be that slow in running, though. At least he walks fast and his short, "fast" initial dash makes his foxtrots good.

Ganondorf sharing Captain Falcon's aerials except Fair ends up being fairly fast for his class of heavyweights and he's hella strong as most people know. Imagine him with Bowser's dash speed. Or even give him his Melee dash speed. He would rise up in tiers because he would not only have strong attacks and fairly fast moves, but now he can rush in or even outspeed people.

It's mostly balancing since if Ike was like a Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts character, he'd make Brawl Meta Knight look balanced. Or if Ganondorf went Vegeta on everyone, he'd make DK with Kong Cyclone look like Yamcha. There are just some issues, though, like Falco running slower than Ike while in Brawl, I think Falco ran faster than Ike, but not by much. Samus could run faster, but it's not really a problem.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

0.0232?! Wow so fast!

 

[meleebrawler]

The issue with speed is what are we talking about? Speed in attacking or movement. Ike in both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn would be more like fast in attacking which would be insane in SSB. Could you imagine him swinging Ragnell faster than Marth or hitting as fast as Captain Falcon? Ike and his father, Greil, had a unique fighting style and they were known for using longswords and two-handed swords with one hand. He could be slow while running and stuff, but if he could cut you down in a heartbeat, it wouldn't matter as much. Ike having good air speed is fine since momentum reasons, but running faster than Falco doesn't. Falco should be faster because he's more lightweight while Ike's lugging around a two-handed sword and armor.

Falco's on the other spectrum, similar to Dr. Mario, where he's slow in movement, but he hits fast. For balancing reasons, he should be faster than say, Pit - I think Pit's dash speed is fairly fast. He should be that slow in running, though. At least he walks fast and his short, "fast" initial dash makes his foxtrots good.

Ganondorf sharing Captain Falcon's aerials except Fair ends up being fairly fast for his class of heavyweights and he's hella strong as most people know. Imagine him with Bowser's dash speed. Or even give him his Melee dash speed. He would rise up in tiers because he would not only have strong attacks and fairly fast moves, but now he can rush in or even outspeed people.

It's mostly balancing since if Ike was like a Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts character, he'd make Brawl Meta Knight look balanced. Or if Ganondorf went Vegeta on everyone, he'd make DK with Kong Cyclone look like Yamcha. There are just some issues, though, like Falco running slower than Ike while in Brawl, I think Falco ran faster than Ike, but not by much. Samus could run faster, but it's not really a problem.

Falco is fast... vertically.

 

[Ffamran]

0.0232?! Wow so fast!

From the wiki: "Falco's dashing speed is slightly faster (from 1.432 in Brawl to 1.472 in Smash 4)." Yep, that's slightly faster all right.

Falco is fast... vertically.

Frame data, fall speed, and his jumps are where his main speed comes from. Falco Phantasm/Phase and Fast Fire Bird are his secondary speed.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

From the wiki: "Falco's dashing speed is slightly faster (from 1.432 in Brawl to 1.472 in Smash 4)." Yep, that's slightly faster all right.


Frame data, fall speed, and his jumps are where his main speed comes from. Falco Phantasm/Phase and Fast Fire Bird are his secondary speed.

As long as our speed wasn't reduced I'm fine with it. Kirby got a slight air speed reduction, and Sonic has a slower walk for all that matters.

What I really want is better horizontal aerial movement. Momentum conservation really helped out Falco in Melee, but we don't have that here. Trying to punish someone in the air is tricky and...shoot, I forgot what I was going to say. Something about how it would help Falco in the air.

 

[Gamegenie222]

And a full hitbox on side b.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

And a full hitbox on side b.

I don't even care if we get increased endlag for it, just give us this. There is no reason we don't have this, none.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Increased end lag would just as bad as having it as it is right now.

 

[Banjobeast158]

Hey, I've been playing some Falco and i was wondering if he has any auto canceling aerials. Any info would be helpful!

 

[SoundChow]

Hey, I've been playing some Falco and i was wondering if he has any auto canceling aerials. Any info would be helpful!

Nair, u-air, and bair all autocancel. Fair does if you full-hop, so go for it after a d-tilt or dash attack. Good luck with your Falco

 

[Gamegenie222]

@ Ffamran Yo what MU's threads are you planning to do after the Mewtwo one? Kinda wanna request one later mostly cause me and the best player in my area plays this MU alot and he thinks Falco wins while I say it's even.

 

[Ffamran]

@ Ffamran Yo what MU's threads are you planning to do after the Mewtwo one? Kinda wanna request one later mostly cause and the best player in my area plays this MU alot and he thinks Falco wins while I say it's even.

DLC characters like Mewtwo will have a 1 month period for people to grind out the MU, so after a month, we would cover 8 characters before Mewtwo can be discussed. I'm doing this because I don't want misconceptions and first impressions making the discussion sketchy along with the patch potentially changing how everything works. So, say Falco miraculously gains a Gentleman Jab, well, that makes playing Falco and MUs much more different now. Unless it's a severe issue like say a future DLC character, perhaps Mewtwo, dominates the game. That's someone we should study immediately. Diddy didn't really dominate in opinion - as in broken as like Brawl Meta Knight - and nobody asked for him until recently.

Anyway, because of the patch, I held back on introducing MU discussions. We were supposed to have covered DK, Diddy, Pikachu, and someone else by now. I'm probably going to introduce DK and Diddy next week because of the patch and making sure stuff's been settled. You can request anyone now, except for Mewtwo.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Cool with me and it's Villager but wait a bit on that. Diddy I need to understand a little bit more especially playing M2K and JJrockets a little bit a while back.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I don't mind taking a break on new MU discussion actually. It gives us some time to revisit any of the past matchups to see how changes may have affected things. We might even turn some 40/60 matchups into 60/40 our favor.


...I hope...

Edit: Oh, and also I want to call attention to the Mii Fighters in the future. Their legal status isn't set in stone, but it's still a potential set of matchups we should learn. Brawler isn't the only class to fear.

 

[Ffamran]

The MU discussions are ongoing, so you can visit and add onto them whenever.

 

[Zionaze]

can't tell if placebo but does Falco look like he runs faster?

 

[Shog]

Yeah I guess we can all agree (for example, Charizard also got an upthrow buff) that Falco should have gotten something. Can't test right now

 

[Radical Bones]

can't tell if placebo but does Falco look like he runs faster?

I thought so too. Need to do proper testing though.

 

[Zionaze]

Falco actually looks like he's running now instead of cruising through jello

 

[Radical Bones]

Aside from running speed I can't seem to find anything. Aerials still stink.

 

[Zionaze]

Side-B looks placebo to me

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

Comparing things to the data thread sticky, apparently Falco's dthrow does 1% less damage? Anyone wanna confirm?

 

[Zionaze]

it's still doing the same dmg for me

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

it's still doing the same dmg for me

Did it do 5 or 6% pre-patch? Also, did Falco's usmash whiffing second hit get fixed?

 

[Zionaze]

Did it do 5 or 6% pre-patch? Also, did Falco's usmash whiffing second hit get fixed?

O
M
G

F A L C O B O Y S
that u-smash finaly fixed

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

O
M
G

F A L C O B O Y S
that u-smash finaly fixed

Holy crap I was right, they did fix it! We got a buff baby!

 

[Zionaze]

Holy crap I was right, they did fix it! We got a buff baby!

been testing with ganon and it finally starts whiffing at 631% haha

 

[SoundChow]

Guys so no laser or phantasm buffs? Are u kidding me?

 

[Baskerville]

Guys so no laser or phantasm buffs? Are u kidding me?

Still the same as before.

 

[GreatDave]

So guys, could somebody list the exact changes on this poor bird of mine?

 

[Altea77]

I heard his dair is faster now. Can anyone confirm?

 

[meleebrawler]

Guys so no laser or phantasm buffs? Are u kidding me?

You're dreaming if you think you'll ever get short-hop double lasers in this game.

 

[GreatDave]

Unfortunately, at the moment I cannot verify...but I'm looking forward to know, llittle time ago I decided to focus only oh him!

 

[Snackss]

I'm not finding anything other than up smash being less mediocre.

 

[Ffamran]

We have a patch thread for Falco: http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-patch-history.375247/.

Anyway, people said Up Smash links better, someone claimed Blaster fires faster, but it might be a placebo, and Uair is getting mixed claims. @Balgorxz said it does 13% while someone else said it does 9%. Also, Balgorxz said his "full Jab" does 1% more which I assume means Jab 2 or the finished does 1% more damage. I'm at uni, so I won't be able to check until later.

Edit: I think someone said his D-throw does less damage, but I don't remember.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

I'm really am liking Falco a lot more on version 1.0.6 in comparison to previous versions. May just be placebo, but his frame date in general seems to be much better (Dash attack, U-Smash, and F-smash all feel faster than previously). Nair is also much better as it can trade with attacks unlike in previous versions of the game, improving falco's previously horrid disadvantageous state. Throws feel more reliable too. Overall, he feels like a much faster character.