Falco in Brawl-

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hey, I'm BPC, leader of the Brawl- project (see sig for details). Falco is moving really slowly, and we need a way to make him very broken, but in a different way from most of the others, and at the same time not in a way which completely shuts down one/multiple chars.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Simple edit. Make his Dthrow have set knockback like DDD. That way he can CG everyone to the edge no matter the percent. Then, adjust his Spike angle so that he can spike anyone offstage and it not be techable.

There, you just made Falco broken on everyone, but the rest of his tools remain the same and do not completely shut down multiple people.

What the heck is Brawl-?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Whoops.

http://brawlminus.com/about.php

CGs are trying to be avoided, and also, not only are chars getting recovery buffs, but just that won't do it for falco. Seriously. It won't. We need more stuff for him.
Also, can't falco do dthrow->dash->pivot grab to infinite like that?

 

[Nightshine]

What about making his Dair have a meteor smash ability all the way through it and not just the opening, have his laser do more damage, and have his Bair have more damage and knockback? Would that do it for him then?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You just said to make him broken, and not in a way that is similar to most others, nor shutting down many people. So, I went with the IC approach. ONly the ICs can infinite everyone and get a 0%-Death out of it. Why not falco.

Meteor Smash all the way through sounds like melee days. I swear, Falco had a larger spike window with Dair than he does in Brawl.

 

[swordsaint]

less set knockback on his up throw and have his lasers knock characters downwards back to falco for combaws.

no lag phantasm

all of his fsmash is sweetspot, and it's faster

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Applying a massive disjoint behind him w/ his grab range is all he needs. Oh yeah, see you can slow down the lazor shots and give him his Melee dair.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You just said to make him broken, and not in a way that is similar to most others, nor shutting down many people. So, I went with the IC approach. ONly the ICs can infinite everyone and get a 0%-Death out of it. Why not falco.

Meteor Smash all the way through sounds like melee days. I swear, Falco had a larger spike window with Dair than he does in Brawl.

CGs are... not encouraged. We actually just said "**** it" with the IC and gave nana's pummel a damage output of 100%, but that's it. DDD's CG is also in jeopardy, and he REALLY needs it, edgeguarding and all.

The meteor smash idea is definitely in.

Here's what we got so far, at least for specials...

Falco lazer startup down, endlag way up, cancels into anything other than lazer very fast after firing.
Shine angle 120, damage way up, knockback fixed
UpB similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxR6kMGDEg except that the startup is lower and it doesn't go into freefall.
SideB doesn't go into freefall (can be used as much as you want). Depending on how this turns out, we may add some endlag (currently thinking like pika's or luigi's). As far as the rest goes, Dair buff, and aside from that and the general damage/knockback buffs that are pretty much everywhere?

 

[AGENT-DOUBLE-D]

hmm... how about all the sex time of bair is a sweet spot, and has ultimate priority,
make his fsmash fast like MK's downsmash and strong like DDD's fully charged fsmash,
make his side B a priority *****...
make UP B do way more damage and much less start up time,

i can do this all day but ill stop here lolz

 

[Denzi]

The meteor smash idea is definitely in.

Here's what we got so far, at least for specials...

Falco lazer startup down, endlag way up, cancels into anything other than lazer very fast after firing.
Shine angle 120, damage way up, knockback fixed
UpB similar to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxR6kMGDEg except that the startup is lower and it doesn't go into freefall.
SideB doesn't go into freefall (can be used as much as you want). Depending on how this turns out, we may add some endlag (currently thinking like pika's or luigi's). As far as the rest goes, Dair buff, and aside from that and the general damage/knockback buffs that are pretty much everywhere?

Not a fan of more endlag on lasers or Phantasm, I think they're both fine the way they are, and they're really a core part of Falco's game. Freefall is still fine on Phantasm as long as UpB doesn't go into freefall. Shine should hit up and behind Falco, comboing into Bair. Make Fair land cancel or make it stronger or decrease the lag or increase the hitstun... That move needs something. I love the idea of getting the Melee spike back. I also like Dthrow the way it is because you can't take away the CG without getting rid of all the other combos he has out of it. If you want to get rid of the CG, at least try to keep Dthrow -> Dair. The rest sounds fine.

Also making Dsmash more like Fox's would be cool.

 

[dainbramage]

Have the laser fire as fast as fox's, possibly with more hitstun/hitlag than it currently has.



EDIT: Mostly off-topic, but falco's dair in PAL melee is similar to the brawl dair in that the initial hitbox is a spike and after that it hits upwards.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Not a fan of more endlag on lasers or Phantasm, I think they're both fine the way they are, and they're really a core part of Falco's game. Freefall is still fine on Phantasm as long as UpB doesn't go into freefall. Shine should hit up and behind Falco, comboing into Bair. Make Fair land cancel or make it stronger or decrease the lag or increase the hitstun... That move needs something. I love the idea of getting the Melee spike back. I also like Dthrow the way it is because you can't take away the CG without getting rid of all the other combos he has out of it. If you want to get rid of the CG, at least try to keep Dthrow -> Dair. The rest sounds fine.

Also making Dsmash more like Fox's would be cool.

The phantasm change seems to me like a flat-out buff with no downside, but I understand the laser worries. I'll explain below.
Shine hitting up and in front of falco leads to dair. Sound familiar? shine->dair->shine->dair? At least, that's what one of the devs is worrying about.
As far as throw go... We're trying to figure out what we're doing there. Not 100% sure about anything there. Dthrow->stuff is good though, and should be kept.

Have the laser fire as fast as fox's, possibly with more hitstun/hitlag than it currently has.

Of course, you realize what this does, right? Unconditional lock. Their only option is to DI back and down until they hit the ledge. Hell, we're getting rid of SHDL because we don't like what it does to characters approaching, and instead making it a way of approaching with SHLSHFFL (I guess). Falco's laser is hard to balance effectively.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

According to CRASHiC, from playtesting with friends, normal falco with nothing but the global hitstun changes goes pretty even with the rest of the cast.

...

There is something wrong here...

 

[Tin Man]

less set knockback on his up throw and have his lasers knock characters downwards back to falco for combaws.

no lag phantasm

all of his fsmash is sweetspot, and it's faster

I agree with this

Hey, I'm BPC, leader of the Brawl- project (see sig for details). Falco is moving really slowly, and we need a way to make him very broken, but in a different way from most of the others, and at the same time not in a way which completely shuts down one/multiple chars.

Anyone have any ideas?

nice sig...

 

[Denzi]

According to CRASHiC, from playtesting with friends, normal falco with nothing but the global hitstun changes goes pretty even with the rest of the cast.

...

There is something wrong here...

Falco's just amazing.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Flaco is already broken.

Again, what about Snake's disjoint applied to Falco's grab range on both sides?

 

[The_Fool]

Make lasers pop people up a bit when they get hit.
That would be own...

 

[King Funk]

Here's my idea for Falco.

Make Falco the ultimate meteor smash machine:
- phantasm --> stronger meteor
- dair --> full length spike hitbox
- fair and nair --> last hit = meteor
- uair --> lower hitbox = meteor
- bair --> stronger, semi-spike trajectory
- shine --> much stronger knockback, semi-spike trajectory
- f-tilt, d-tilt --> semi-spike, trajectory
- firebird --> spike on last hit
- lasers --> slight but annoying downwards knockback

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Now that's an interesting idea. "Personally, he prefers the air. And needs ALL OF IT." I'll add that to the list.

 

[Cross.]

Make lasers do 9%. Now hes broken.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I think this should be in the smash workshop.

 

[Teran]

I think this should be in the smash workshop.

Agreed, I'll just have a word with Bionic Sonic.

Actually, just post in here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255190

These boards are for vBrawl. If you guys want to discuss this stuff, just follow that link.