FAir -> Dancing Blade -> FAir, all in one short-hop

[metroid1117]

We all have heard of SHDF'ing (short-hop double FAiring) with Marth, and if you've seen Wound of the Wind 2 or 3 you've seen FAir -> UAir in the same short-hop.

There's another usable thing you can do after a short-hopped FAir; Dancing Blade. It requires near-perfect timing, but it can be done. Immediately after you leave the ground with a short-hop, FAir and after Marth's arm stops moving, use Dancing Blade once. From there, you can follow up with another FAir, an UAir, or just skip the aerial after it and continue with your Dancing Blade. If your opponent rolls behind you after the first FAir, you can even use Dancing Blade in the opposite direction and hit them.

Now for the discussion; is there a use for this besides for mindgames? Personally, I wouldn't use this unless the first FAir hit, and even then, it's even harder to use the Dancing Blade after that because the hitlag may screw up your timing. It may be used to eat shields, but I doubt it will be as effective as pillaring from a Falco. What do you guys think?

EDIT: Some uses include...

1) Keeping out your opponent's shield longer

2) Doing Dancing Blade in the opposite direction if they try to roll behind you

3) Using BAir after Dancing Blade if they roll behind you after that

4) Using the third down hit of Dancing Blade (the spike) to counter crouch cancelers

5) Continuing Dancing Blade as a surprise on opponents who were previously dashdancing to bait you into shffl'ing two FAirs and grabbing after the second one

6) If the opponent shields, wavelanding behind the opponent after the Dancing Blade and following up with a grab

 

[Mar~]

......................................

 

[Miggz]

Ehh that combo sounds ok. Worth knowing about, but I don't think its fully required. I have a better combo in mind. Up throw, jump into your opponent, dancing blade (first step) Uair. Its pretty cool when seen in a match. I think Kizzu and I talked about it a while back. I'll give the combo you just mentioned a shot though. ^^

*goes back to spacing fair training*

 

[FrostByte]

I think it'd be great against floaty characters who like to grab (ICs) If you could use an Uair after the over b, it'd be even better because you can get them up into the air. I'm not user however, if the over b is low enough to be in their grab range, or if the frames for the Uair come out. Please clarify?

 

[metroid1117]

The Dancing Blade will get you high enough in the air that you can do an UAir, but I don't know whether you'll be high enough to avoid a grab. I would test it out, but right now I'm not allowed to play >.>.

 

[Metà]

I figured this out on my own a long time ago, but I almost never use it. It's not really that hard, either, it's just, I might as well just SHDF instead.

Marth isn't really my main though, so I may be missing something here.

 

[JBM falcon08]

i don't see this being beneficial to a marth player's game, it seems more flashy and awkward than useful. just stick to spaced single fairs.

 

[Ijuka]

shf fair forward B waveland fsmash tipper seems neat. Might be useful once in a blue moon.

 

[Cactuar]

It requires near-perfect timing, but it can be done.

I laughed at this.

 

[metroid1117]

I laughed at this.

Well, a little exaggeration doesn't hurt, does it?

But in all seriousness, the timing took me a little while to get down because I forgot that you can't use a B move during an attack's IASA frames.

 

[balladechina212]

This sounds pretty sexy...I'm gonna try it.

 

[Aesir]

I did this before, basically its better to just double fair. But if they roll behind you doing a reverse forward B might be useful or you could just end the arial land dash dance into grab . >_>

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

So,you basically get the same results except that you just use the DB in the middle of the combination?

Just do what works.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Ehh that combo sounds ok. Worth knowing about, but I don't think its fully required. I have a better combo in mind. Up throw, jump into your opponent, dancing blade (first step) Uair. Its pretty cool when seen in a match. I think Kizzu and I talked about it a while back. I'll give the combo you just mentioned a shot though. ^^

*goes back to spacing fair training*

Don't think of it as a combo. This move has teriffic potential as an approach, mindgames, and as a non-punishable* pressure move.

SH Fair -> D.B. -> ?

From this basic setup, you're left with a few options.

-If they're still coming, unaware that there can be so many swings in one shorthop, then you can tag them with your final Fair.

-If they're approaching from above, you can simply waveland backwards (and Marth's perfect waveland is SO great)

-If they shield you can waveland forwards into a grab


*predictability will always get you punished

 

[FrostByte]

So,you basically get the same results except that you just use the DB in the middle of the combination?

Just do what works.

That's just like saying "Why does sheik jab you after an aerial instead of just grabbing?"

 

[Cookies 'n' Milk]

This is an interesting idea, however shdf would usually be more useful.
Despite that comment though I think this could be useful for mindgames and could make you less predictable.

Have a nice day!

~Cookie

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

That's just like saying "Why does sheik jab you after an aerial instead of just grabbing?"

Excuse me for having commmon sense.

Does this move benifit you more than a spaced double Fair? No.

Does this set up for anything other than a spaced Fair? No

Is this worth the practice?No.

Just do what the hell works insted of coming up with elaborate plans.It's really annoying see people trying to make elaborate combo's when they could easily do what works.

This is even a bad idea to use as a mindgame.Even if it could trick your opponent,it isn't necessary to do when you are in the middle of your Fair.Just space and retreat when you hit the shield if you don't want to get punished.

Alot of characters have techniques that can be used without actually having to use mindgames to find an opening.trying to mindgames your opponent in the middle of a double Fair is pointless,and can often screw you up when you can be smarter about it..For example: If Marth was going for a pivot grab while he was dash dancing,Falco can easily SHL him out of the dance.Even though that isn't a good example,it's just something I thought up.

Here is a better example: If you're Fox and you waveshine Link,are you just going to Grab/Jab>Grab,or are you going to jab,run behind him and pivot grab him?Why would you? Just so you can go"OMG MINDGAMES!!".Sure,it can work sometimes,but why do it when your opponent is vulnerable right there?

Sure,this idea may be 'unique',but just because it's unique doesn't mean it's useful.

I'll reiterate what I said: Just do what works.

 

[FrostByte]

Does this move benifit you more than a spaced double Fair? No.

On a sheild? Yes. It prevents smaller opponents from shieldgrabbing you. It also keeps your opponent in their shield longer, increasing your chances of a shield stab/spike.

Does this set up for anything other than a spaced Fair? No

The aerial of your choice

Is this worth the practice?No.

2 seconds?

Just do what the hell works insted of coming up with elaborate plans.It's really annoying see people trying to make elaborate combo's when they could easily do what works.

This could help Marth's shield pressure game, which he is severly lacking IMO. Jab after a spaced fair isn't too good and though the dtilt comes out faster, he can get grabbed after it.

Dtilt is a great shield stabbing tool though, however Marth lacks the "safe" shield pressure game that Sheik and Falco have.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

On a sheild? Yes. It prevents smaller opponents from shieldgrabbing you. It also keeps your opponent in their shield longer, increasing your chances of a shield stab/spike.

Isn't just FAir>D-tilt easier and alittle more safe?It seems like a pain to use upon instinct.

The aerial of your choice

I would just go with a Fair or Uair anyway.

2 seconds?

You may be able to do it,but uyou also have to learn to implement it into your gameplay as well.

This could help Marth's shield pressure game, which he is severly lacking IMO. Jab after a spaced fair isn't too good and though the dtilt comes out faster, he can get grabbed after it.

Probably.It just feels strange though.

Dtilt is a great shield stabbing tool though, however Marth lacks the "safe" shield pressure game that Sheik and Falco have.

Falco is like hell on ice when it comes to shields.It's possible to grab Falco out of your shield though when he tried to Dair>Shine(Before the shine) unless the opponent has frame perfect timing.

I still don't think i'm going to use this though.

 

[Perfect Hero]

Added to my toolbox.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Isn't just FAir>D-tilt easier and alittle more safe?It seems like a pain to use upon instinct.

Some characters can shield grab you out of it. Marth and Shiek are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.

Falco is like hell on ice when it comes to shields.It's possible to grab Falco out of your shield though when he tried to Dair>Shine(Before the shine) unless the opponent has frame perfect timing.

I still don't think i'm going to use this though.

They don't need frame perfect timing. All they have to do is practice. As long as they make sure to hit low on your shield and avoid dairing while rising they'll be fine.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Double Fair = 2 swings then you land
This = 2 swings then you can do lots of things

 

[metroid1117]

I added a list of uses this has besides for mindgames; others can come up with what they think and I'll add them to the list daily.

 

[balladechina212]

I finally implemented this in my game. Check this out: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QvB29l8DpLs

First KO, I use it as a combo starter and finish it with a Ken combo.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hmmm, I don't think Marth's shield pressure is lacking. Just different.

On a side note I'm glad that the Marth community is using vocab that I myself started.

This board actually sounds like a legit fighting game community now.

As for shield pressure. Marth doesn't need to be in all in someones face to pressure. His dash and his sword is so haxilicious that it he can get way with alot.

D-tilts and well spaced fairs and nairs are enough to apply pressure effectively. When your opponent hesitates to do something, you grab them. Well spaced f-tilts are great too. Very safe.

 

[metroid1117]

Hmmm, I don't think Marth's shield pressure is lacking. Just different.

On a side note I'm glad that the Marth community is using vocab that I myself started.

This board actually sounds like a legit fighting game community now.

As for shield pressure. Marth doesn't need to be in all in someones face to pressure. His dash and his sword is so haxilicious that it he can get way with alot.

D-tilts and well spaced fairs and nairs are enough to apply pressure effectively. When your opponent hesitates to do something, you grab them. Well spaced f-tilts are great too. Very safe.

FTilt... I don't see many Marth players using it (including myself). Wouldn't they have time to wavedash out of their shield and grab you after the FTilt?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Fully spaced f-tilt at the tipper is safe.

 

[Brightside6382]

Fully spaced f-tilt at the tipper is safe.

I doubt it. Seems like it would be easy for most characters with any kind of half-decent wavedash to just wd outa shield to grab ****.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shield stun is sufficient for Marth to be safe.