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Q&A "Everyone Look At Me!" The Marth Video Critique Thread.

Kazeshin

Kazeshin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Netplay
Hi, am a new Marth main that just finished reading the first 320 pages of the Marth Q&A. Been trying to get good at melee, but i feel like my neutral is lacking incredibly (i think ive got the general gameplan down though)

Here's a vid of my Marth at a local:
I'd love to hear a bit of criticism! So far I've mainly noticed that my pivot grabs are bad, I sometimes just instictively do unsafe Fsmashes and other techflops, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better in the neutral.
 
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R

Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
142
Kazeshin said:
Hi, am a new Marth main that just finished reading the first 320 pages of the Marth Q&A. Been trying to get good at melee, but i feel like my neutral is lacking incredibly (i think ive got the general gameplan down though)

Here's a vid of my Marth at a local:
I'd love to hear a bit of criticism! So far I've mainly noticed that my pivot grabs are bad, I sometimes just instictively do unsafe Fsmashes and other techflops, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better in the neutral.
Click to expand...
Looks like you've got techskill, but you seemed lacking in spacing a lot of the time, and just general all around stuff you'll gain from practice. I guess just play more people and you'll improve (probably, I'm not an expert).
 
Kazeshin

Kazeshin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
11
Location
Netplay
Raycu said:
Looks like you've got techskill, but you seemed lacking in spacing a lot of the time, and just general all around stuff you'll gain from practice. I guess just play more people and you'll improve (probably, I'm not an expert).
Click to expand...
Well thanks for the praise, but do you have any tips on how to gain that "all around stuff" fast? I find that "just playing" doesn't help me much compared to actually looking out for specific things. Improvement that way seems more "accidental" than "planned".
 
R

Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
142
Kazeshin said:
Well thanks for the praise, but do you have any tips on how to gain that "all around stuff" fast? I find that "just playing" doesn't help me much compared to actually looking out for specific things. Improvement that way seems more "accidental" than "planned".
Click to expand...
The two things that really stood out for me was your spacing, and timing. Often you would go for an attack just outside your reach, or get spot dodged because you'd often attack at the soonest possible moment.
 
SSBM Tao

SSBM Tao

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
31
Kazeshin said:
Hi, am a new Marth main that just finished reading the first 320 pages of the Marth Q&A. Been trying to get good at melee, but i feel like my neutral is lacking incredibly (i think ive got the general gameplan down though)

Here's a vid of my Marth at a local:
I'd love to hear a bit of criticism! So far I've mainly noticed that my pivot grabs are bad, I sometimes just instictively do unsafe Fsmashes and other techflops, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better in the neutral.
Click to expand...
Raycu said:
Looks like you've got techskill, but you seemed lacking in spacing a lot of the time, and just general all around stuff you'll gain from practice. I guess just play more people and you'll improve (probably, I'm not an expert).
Click to expand...
I think your biggest problem is hesitation, you take to long to wait while in combos, so you end them early with F-smash. Ive seen that sometimes you just stand still and wait while in close range, like at 3:20 or 4:09 after you wd back. This might be due to lack of situational awareness, but can be fixed with more techskill practice and just overall playing. Also, when edgeguarding you commit to crouch to get a D-tilt. Watch m2k's vids to see how he edge guards (may have heard this before, but it helps). Work on punish game as well. Neutral is gained after more experience and can be developed over time, but your neutral is generally your best trait! Hope this helps!
Kazeshin said:
Hi, am a new Marth main that just finished reading the first 320 pages of the Marth Q&A. Been trying to get good at melee, but i feel like my neutral is lacking incredibly (i think ive got the general gameplan down though)

Here's a vid of my Marth at a local:
I'd love to hear a bit of criticism! So far I've mainly noticed that my pivot grabs are bad, I sometimes just instictively do unsafe Fsmashes and other techflops, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better in the neutral.
Click to expand...
 
R

Raycu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
142
SSBM Tao said:
I would really like an analysis on my video against oro?! I know that my combo game was off and my edgeguards were sloppy. I can easily change these aspects and I have already started, so any tips on neutral would be great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2RodXsRBow
Click to expand...
You're far too commital with aerials and inexperienced with edgeguarding.

In the shiek mu you want to stay grounded and not throw out approaching nairs, as they're not the most useful.

You're neutral game was also lacking along with spacing. You often let them get too close to you and take stage advantage.

I guess in general you're too inexperienced and there's a lot you need to work on. For now just remember not to throw out aerials so easily and to try to stay out of your enemies range. Marth often wants to be able to throw out an aerial before an enemy can land theirs. Remember to keep within a space where this is possible.
 
SSBM Tao

SSBM Tao

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
31
Raycu said:
You're far too commital with aerials and inexperienced with edgeguarding.

In the shiek mu you want to stay grounded and not throw out approaching nairs, as they're not the most useful.

You're neutral game was also lacking along with spacing. You often let them get too close to you and take stage advantage.

I guess in general you're too inexperienced and there's a lot you need to work on. For now just remember not to throw out aerials so easily and to try to stay out of your enemies range. Marth often wants to be able to throw out an aerial before an enemy can land theirs. Remember to keep within a space where this is possible.
Click to expand...
Thanks, a lot. A lot of my sloppy play was part from nerves and shiek mu inexperience. Thank you! Your help is appreciated.
 
Ladder

Ladder

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
156
Location
Belgium
SSBM Tao said:
I would really like an analysis on my video against oro?! I know that my combo game was off and my edgeguards were sloppy. I can easily change these aspects and I have already started, so any tips on neutral would be great!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2RodXsRBow
Click to expand...

To me it seems like you don't really know what to do against sheik.
When sheik stays grounded don't approach her with an arial, it will just get beat out by ftilt whiff punished or cc'd, sheik has a lot of great options to beat marh arials. When sheik is grounded rather go for a poke with dtilt to conditon her to shield/ jump.
Once sheik jumps you can be more liberal with your arials since arial marth beats arial sheik, with proper spacing.
Another big thing in the match up letting the sheik approach you. sheik isn't the best at approaching a good dash dancing marth, you can easily dash dance grab dash attack, a common approach while still putting out the threat of a possible poke if they don't approach.

Also when you get a grab up throw is almost always the optimal throw vs sheik, she sucks at coming down so you can easily juggle her and deny center stage.
 
L

L33thal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
131
Location
Monterey Park, CA
Can anyone give me tips or advice? I feel like my neutral is weird because I'm playing mostly off reads. And I feel like my stage control and recovery aren't very strong.
 
vexoskeleton

vexoskeleton

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
95
Location
Massachusetts
Kazeshin said:
Hi, am a new Marth main that just finished reading the first 320 pages of the Marth Q&A. Been trying to get good at melee, but i feel like my neutral is lacking incredibly (i think ive got the general gameplan down though)

Here's a vid of my Marth at a local:
I'd love to hear a bit of criticism! So far I've mainly noticed that my pivot grabs are bad, I sometimes just instictively do unsafe Fsmashes and other techflops, but I'm not entirely sure how to get better in the neutral.
Click to expand...
First off you need to work on your edgeguards, there were many times you just seemed lost as to what to do. I'd suggest watching the video of m2k's 100+ edgeguards to see what he does and read up on edgeguarding against spacies. secondly when recovering you would go very often to a platform, this is not somewhere you want to be against fox. he can dictate much of the match if you're up there without some good shield drops. I'd suggest starting to go towards the ledge more and when you're up high don't needlessly doublejump. When recovering you want to get on the ground above all else and marth can easily gimp spacies when he's on the ledge so that's why you want to aim more for there or just on the stage and not on platforms when recovering high. also at low percents you would futilely dthrow the fox to get him off stages when you didnt follow up. try to upthrow him instead to get some platform combos going and if you do want to dthrow you need a good idea of what options they are liking to go to when you do that to them so you know what you want to be covering and looking out for.

For neutral the problems I saw were that you would 1. not dash dance at all. You many times seemed to almost just stand there, when you see a hit incoming from your opponent instead of shielding just try to move out of their attack range, marth's strength in this match up is his ability to punish from great distances, use your movement to accentuate this by dash dancing to get grabs and whiff punishes 2. You gave up center stage very frequently. Marth is great at keeping his opponent out towards the edges of the stage and you need center stage many times to win close range scuffles because marth has little options if he doesn't have space to move in. But you'd get caught up in trying to get a gimp/being pressured and just sort of stay in that corner.
 
P

Parzival_

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 24, 2017
Messages
1
Hey guys, I've got a few videos after playing at a regional Arcadian and making it onto stream for basically the first time in the 10 months I've been playing tournament melee.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/202571135

Set vs and icies player. I thought I played decently at the time, but reviewing the footage I'm obviously approaching too 'rhythmically', and I feel I should be mixing grabs into my marth/icies game a bit more. Other observations would be appreciated.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/202501116

First match of this video is me vs a Peach, who has about the same local ELO as I do (but I always lose to him). No need to say it, I know the fsmashes aren't working out for me, and I'll try to dial them down in the future.
 
L

L33thal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
131
Location
Monterey Park, CA
Hi guys, so some background info, I haven't played for almost 2 years due to irl stuff but lately I've been trying to get back into the game. Before my hiatus, I tried to play off hard reads and punish game so my neutral would revolve around me mostly using moves that were combo starters. But I didn't really focus on stage control and winning exchanges, so this time I've been trying to fight for stage more (to a fault, but imo it's better to be super aggro at first and then dial it back).

My game plan right now is basically to stuff people's aerials with nairs/fairs and take stage from them, and along the way I'd mix in some dding/grabs/d-tilts off reads. I'd try to corner my opponent and put myself in good situations to punish just off positioning. But I've always had a problem with the offensive game as Marth. I feel like one of my weaknesses is not using grab more to threaten positioning/shields, esp in the Sheik matchup. I just find grab to be risky against an opponent that doesn't stay in one place for long, and I also have weak followups off grabs except against spacies. So, I'm trying to find good situations to put out grabs. And I'm kinda the same way with d-tilts, but to a lesser extent. I feel like without grabs/d-tilts, Marth's offensive game is lackluster, and people can sit in shield against me.

Also, I feel like another weakness of mine is I try to use aerials too much to contest in neutral, but sometimes it seems better to just use movement for better positioning and to have more options. And instead of being too swing-happy, I could try baiting more.

Fox
Besides being more patient and using movement more to get better reads/situations, I feel like I don't know what to do against Fox's fullhops. Also, it felt like I could've threatened the ground more but idk.

Falco
I feel like I could be doing more in neutral against Falco but can't figure out what. I'm just sloppily throwing in nairs/fairs between lasers.

Falcon
Feels like I don't as much off hits against Falcon. Also, I'm not covering myself well against side-B. And I start getting overwhelmed when I let Falcon dash close to start up nairs or if he nairs early before I can swing. I also find myself nervous to dash under Falcon against high nairs.

Sheik
Against good Sheiks (don't stay in place too long, mix up decently well, strong punish game, etc.) I just feel lost. In this matchup I feel like I'm a down-tilt master, but I don't know how to get much off it. I also don't feel very confident using grabs against Sheik if they're moving a lot and using dash attacks. I remember taking a glimpse at Kadano's data on up-throw against Sheik, but I can't seem to have any good punishes on Sheik.

Peach
Need to be more ready for dash attacks after Marth's nairs/fairs. Punish game and sharking needs to be a lot better to make grabs and d-tilts feel like more of a threat. Also need answers against turnips.

Marth
I feel like I get really antsy in the ditto. I try to nair when I think the other Marth is going to poke with d-tilt. Also don't know how to get back on stage against d-tilt lol.
 
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