Etrian Nomination Mafia - Endgame: Until the Day the Adventurers Rise Again

[Z25]

Eh, gg. Scum played stupid well. Probably won't sign up for awhile, this game takes up too much time.

alright I’ll man up. My bad folynch misjudging you.

But again why didn’t you see Ryker being controlling?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I was leaning very heavily Nabe/joey/Laundry. Pretty much the only person who I would have followed on a Ryker push is kantrip and he wasn't about it, at least this phase

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well done scum team.

Should have trusted my gut on Joey but whoops.

Lessons learned and and I gotta do Better.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Tough game, I had the right idea of Ryker/Laundry having someone pulling the strings but just had the wrong dude. I also never townread Nabe lol

Laundry, I don't dislike your playstyle or playing with you so no hard feelings regardless of the loser's circle

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Alright that’s the last ****ing time I accept pitty saves.

Nabe did it to me as scum and now you.

Let me guess ****ing laundry was with you guys.

Joey you were so easy to predict as scum.

Ryker I started day 1. I knew for a fact one of the town controllers were scum.

For the love of god people my reads are usually right so listen to me damn it. They weren’t coicindences

Reread this game and break down the arguments. You had good reads but you weren't always able to articulate why to other people. I'm super happy you made it to end game and it seemed like you putting more effort into your reasoning than I've seen previously. You're on a good track, keep improving.

 

[Kantrip]

Not sure how to feel about the tie rule but it's my fault for not knowing about it until it mattered lmao.

Probably will have more thoughts later.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright that’s the last ****ing time I accept pitty saves.

Nabe did it to me as scum and now you.

Let me guess ****ing laundry was with you guys.

Joey you were so easy to predict as scum.

Ryker I started day 1. I knew for a fact one of the town controllers were scum.

For the love of god people my reads are usually right so listen to me damn it. They weren’t coicindences

I realize you have big dreams, but I mean this in the kindest way, you need a reality check.

Your read of "One of the town controllers must be scum because scum would want to control town," is complete and utter crock. You can't take credit for it because it's based in wrong. No matter what you do, you can't make anything happen if you can't make other people believe you.

In fact, that's a huge problem in general. You have no sense of what the game looks like from anyone else's perspective. You were correct on Joey, yes, but it was almost entirely based in his interactions with you. You are operating with the knowledge of your own alignment and no one else in the game has access to that. You cannot convince people if you cannot provide to them reasons for THEM to believe they should lynch that player.

If you were a player who knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, who the entire scum team was, but failed to convince others to lynch them, you played like dog ****. Getting reads isn't even the lionshare of the game. It's a game of deduction, yes, but it is much more than that, a game of social engineering. As either alignment, it is imperative to understand how others perceive the game and to avoid being viewed negatively while getting other people to do what you want them to do.

You fail to do that. The very fact that your arguments can apparently routinely not gain any traction in the thread is proof that they are subpar. Being right does not mean anything. It doesn't mean you played well, if anything it means you played worse because, not only were you "right," you were unable to convince everyone you were town, much less that those you want to lynch were scum.

You need self-reflection. It's like anything else in life, righteous indignation does nothing to avoid the situation occurring again, it only allows you to attempt to avoid blaming yourself.

 

[Deleted member]

The **** this is over already??

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This is a game where improvement is incremental. You do NOT come in claiming yourself to be better than your performance indicated when you lost. When you survive to the final phase while being right, it just means that the scum team considered you completely non-threatening. That is not other people's fault.

 

[Dooms]

Z most of your stuff on me was connected to Laundry and me sitting on you. If you don't think I'd sit on you as town, you're definitely wrong. Your reads were backed with horrid reasons and there is not a timeline where I don't sit on you until you're dead. Trying to get cocky post-game because you guessed right means nothing if you don't have reasoning to back it up.

I'm also known for tunneling as town. You weren't going to get away from me regardless.

That aside, that was tough. This set up SUCKS for scum. There wasn't a nomination we could go with D4 that was safe. D2's nomination was 100% random. It was really funny to see people debate about all of the possible conclusions we came up with to make that group when in reality it was random.org. D2 wasn't the problem as much as having to put half of the game into a pool for D4 was.

Definitely going to dodge the nomination ruleset if it comes up again. I appreciate everyone who played and it was a good time setup aside, but the setup just wasn't fun to work with as scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Moydow I really enjoyed the flavor and am glad we never lynched the Sovereign.

 

[Kantrip]

I was also very invested in Nabe/Joey/Laundry by the end of it. Ryu and Z25 both felt town to me in the last phase. Didn't expect Ryker and Joey to both put themselves in as scum but it makes sense.

I hate this setup. Its geared towards WIFOM and second guessing and plays in to everything I hate about my ability to play as town. I'd be sick as scum in this kind of game though.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I would love to work on an Etrian Mafia set-up with you that had PRs. I think it could be a ton of fun. Thanks for hosting.

 

[Moydow]

Not sure how to feel about the tie rule but it's my fault for not knowing about it until it mattered lmao.

Yeah, that was... not thought through very well, to say the least. :p I don't think I'll try that one again. I guess I thought of it as something along the lines of forcing players to come to a consensus so as to avoid getting screwed like this, but in practice it clearly didn't work out that way.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Town's hugest downfall was just paranoia and conversations that felt more isolated. It's like I got this feeling most people were shouting about their reads and thoughts but not coming together and deciding which of those points mattered, so EoD lynches always ended up in a scramble cause there was no consensus

I think even if town went on a bad read but collectively decided upon it and acknowledged it, they've could've seen themselves as individually townie and noticed how scum were just letting them set up mislynches for them, but that didn't happen

I had fun regardless, though I do wish that people wouldn't instill past behavior unto me, moreso I wish I wouldn't fall back on it due to familiar faces

 

[Dooms]

Yeah, that was... not thought through very well, to say the least. I don't think I'll try that one again. I guess I thought of it as something along the lines of forcing players to come to a consensus so as to avoid getting screwed like this, but in practice it clearly didn't work out that way.

Scum needed something, dude. You really didn't give us much to work with. If town didn't shoot themselves in the foot multiple times, we would have lost strictly due to the night phases.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was also very invested in Nabe/Joey/Laundry by the end of it. Ryu and Z25 both felt town to me in the last phase. Didn't expect Ryker and Joey to both put themselves in as scum but it makes sense.

I hate this setup. Its geared towards WIFOM and second guessing and plays in to everything I hate about my ability to play as town. I'd be sick as scum in this kind of game though.

I don't think I'd sign up to play this kind of game again. I think it's frustrating to play from both sides. It's hard to find anything concrete until you find a scumflip, but when you find it the domino effect makes it feel like garbage to play as scum and contributes to a game that takes altogether too long if it isn't a blowout.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Yeah, the setup was definitely hard too, I think the inflated numbers of 11 compared to the 7 attributed to that cause scum had more factors to play with and town had well..more factors to consider

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yeah, that was... not thought through very well, to say the least. I don't think I'll try that one again. I guess I thought of it as something along the lines of forcing players to come to a consensus so as to avoid getting screwed like this, but in practice it clearly didn't work out that way.

The rule was okay. Town should've been aware and pushed for lynches rather than letting phases time out.

 

[Dooms]

on flavor, I always thought EO games were super pretty with cute characters, but then I played one of the games and realized I didn't enjoy it at all. Feels bad.

Still great flavor regardless. EO has a wonderful atmosphere.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@ endgame remaining town: some of my comments in the spoiler chat are a bit harsh (I write my dead PM comments) but I think, even if that tie rule is changed town was just too busy bickering at other town. confirmation bias can do that If Town started to work together and connected the dots, I think they could have at least made it a closer game.

like ya'll were really close on joey and nabe lol. it's just that different townie's had those.

@ Scum: the only way the scum team would've been more hilarious is if kantrip or Z25 was on it instead of Ryker.

Eh, gg. Scum played stupid well. Probably won't sign up for awhile, this game takes up too much time.

i feel like we need something a little less reads focused and a little bit more wild

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Sorry for playing my most toxic game since NZone showed up, y'all. Thing is, I was a Toxipede, you know?

I think the setup would benefit from scum getting a vengeful pick when at least the first mafia member dies.

I had fun regardless, though I do wish that people wouldn't instill past behavior unto me, moreso I wish I wouldn't fall back on it due to familiar faces

Yeah, I thought that was the case.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EO is one of the best dungeon crawlers out there and yuzo koshiro is one of the greatest composers out there

I would definitely play another EO themed game

 

[Z25]

I realize you have big dreams, but I mean this in the kindest way, you need a reality check.

Your read of "One of the town controllers must be scum because scum would want to control town," is complete and utter crock. You can't take credit for it because it's based in wrong. No matter what you do, you can't make anything happen if you can't make other people believe you.

In fact, that's a huge problem in general. You have no sense of what the game looks like from anyone else's perspective. You were correct on Joey, yes, but it was almost entirely based in his interactions with you. You are operating with the knowledge of your own alignment and no one else in the game has access to that. You cannot convince people if you cannot provide to them reasons for THEM to believe they should lynch that player.

If you were a player who knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, who the entire scum team was, but failed to convince others to lynch them, you played like dog ****. Getting reads isn't even the lionshare of the game. It's a game of deduction, yes, but it is much more than that, a game of social engineering. As either alignment, it is imperative to understand how others perceive the game and to avoid being viewed negatively while getting other people to do what you want them to do.

You fail to do that. The very fact that your arguments can apparently routinely not gain any traction in the thread is proof that they are subpar. Being right does not mean anything. It doesn't mean you played well, if anything it means you played worse because, not only were you "right," you were unable to convince everyone you were town, much less that those you want to lynch were scum.

You need self-reflection. It's like anything else in life, righteous indignation does nothing to avoid the situation occurring again, it only allows you to attempt to avoid blaming yourself.

See here my problem. Calling my plays straight up **** is just wrong. Was it amazing?? No but it had points that needed to be discussed.

The problem here is my facts but also that the scum was made of some of the biggest ddgames players.

I could have been Jesus out here preaching and it wouldn’t change that no one would lynch any of you except nabe.

There was no good way to better phrase any arguments because you all didn’t allow. Which is great play wise but it’s not excuse to say I’m ****. There was nothing I could do.

In fact I want you to legitimately tell me how you would get all three of you lynched. Based on your posts and power of control.


Which no matter what you say, scum controller town is always gonna happen and should also been considered. I’ve played like 10 games where it’s happened.

It’s very clear to me wheater you like it or not that this should be considered in games going forth. And I’ll continue to think that way.

Also I did look from peoples perspectives.

I understood where soup was coming, where 3rd was and diskfunk.

I also saw reason for Ryus vote hence the way I responded to nabes question.


I’m someone with great reads, but I need better ways to go about it. So I’ll ask how do you suppose I learn to improve? Because if your scum again and with scum in future games I want to make sure I destroy them. I’m sick of being used in these games.

And I do believe you should take peoples reads at face value because you can’t always use evidence to nail scum if they are good at hiding it. It has to be a gut feeling from time to time.

 

[Moydow]

I would love to work on an Etrian Mafia set-up with you that had PRs. I think it could be a ton of fun. Thanks for hosting.

Funny, I was already thinking of doing one at some point (or an EO-themed Ricochet game since that's the hot new thing around here), and @Shishœ had some ideas of his own for one too. Maybe we can team up. Or just run three separate games. Or team up and run three separate games. :p

we'll get everyone obsessed with these games eventually, just you lot wait

 

[Z25]

Honestly though this setup just doesn’t work as well for either side. Without abilities or a way to track peoples actions.

It literally comes down to reads and that’s it. The rest might as well be a political debate which isn’t too fun. Which isn’t moy’s fault. It’s a problem I have more with this type of mafia in general.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

i need to do better to get people to read me better and get people to understand my reads but it is the Ruy way.

i’ll sign Up for something traditional next time though.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Honestly though this setup just doesn’t work as well for either side. Without abilities or a way to track peoples actions.

It literally comes down to reads and that’s it. The rest might as well be a political debate which isn’t too fun. Which isn’t moy’s fault. It’s a problem I have more with this type of mafia in general.

Vanilla setups are fun IMO, that wasn't the issue (see #1858 for criticism)

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also I can do a bigger comment thread for all the peeps that played. I wouldn't have much to say since I replaced out and most of my stuff's in the dead PM but biggest ones that are more positive,

Disfunkshunal you did an amazing job and even better than I would have even if I had the time <3 so many of those plays were on point and were even aligning with exactly what I would do (Not lynching who's the scummiest but lynching by PoE at MyLo? That's a me play <3)

also Z25 you did awesome. your reads are great. keep improving.

Honestly though this setup just doesn’t work as well for either side. Without abilities or a way to track peoples actions.

It literally comes down to reads and that’s it. The rest might as well be a political debate which isn’t too fun. Which isn’t moy’s fault. It’s a problem I have more with this type of mafia in general.

we need some bastardly back

who's with me, folks. I need an excuse to get my setup working

 

[Dooms]

I’m someone with great reads, but I need better ways to go about it. So I’ll ask how do you suppose I learn to improve? Because if your scum again and with scum in future games I want to make sure I destroy them. I’m sick of being used in these games.

And I do believe you should take peoples reads at face value because you can’t always use evidence to nail scum if they are good at hiding it. It has to be a gut feeling from time to time.

Don't settle. You settled on Pokechu, you settled on Soup, you didn't do anything about Shishoe. If you generally thought all 3 of those were town at the time you made those votes (on the first two)/didn't do anything for the FE/Shishoe push, you were actively detracting from your faction's chances of winning by getting rid of players that you think are townie.

You also gotta learn to find reasoning in the game and stick to it unless you're reconsidering the read. Using your past experiences is fine in your own personal logic, but if you have to post that in the thread as 4 different paragraphs to get your read across, maybe you should reconsider where you're going. EX: Your post about having Nabe godfather against the wall still had nothing to do with your scum read on Laundry. You were feeding me ammo dude, and I would have taken that as town or scum because it comes across as really fake.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Can we truce to never wall incessantly like that again? I think walls are good if you need to make a greater point but there was too much vying for attention, and I unfortunately fell for it too. There wasn't enough moments where people were hashing things out

It was stressful honestly

 

[Dooms]

Can we truce to never wall incessantly like that again? I think walls are good if you need to make a greater point but there was too much vying for attention, and I unfortunately fell for it too. There wasn't enough moments where people were hashing things out

It was stressful honestly

tbh I think this is hard to ask for in a game with 48 hour deadlines and we're being this analytical.

Ideally though yes less walls please ;_;

 

[Thirdkoopa]

i think what'd be nice is if soup didn't just tunnel vision the first thing he saw

like ngl, I was gonna replace out anyways as I should have (and shouldn't have even signed up) but soup my dude, lay off the paranoia about ten notches

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i think what'd be nice is if soup didn't just tunnel vision the first thing he saw

like ngl, I was gonna replace out anyways as I should have (and shouldn't have even signed up) but soup my dude, lay off the paranoia about ten notches

...No lol

I didn't even have tunnel vision, I had incomplete thoughts trying to put the pieces together while trying to assess all the other bull**** being posted. I stuck to my guns because it was like comfort food even if it was wrong, but I'm not a one-dimensional player where I always have tunnel vision if you're trying to compare how I read Moydow correctly in PYP and stuck with it; there's more intricacies to my play

 

[Kantrip]

Laundry and Ryker should just stick to being a hydra if theyre gonna play like one anyway imo. Super frustrating to try to get thread control when they back each other, and it would be fine if one of them wasnt scum.

I think this game was so frustrating because every townie that got pressured used AtE and/or threatened to replace out or self vote, and every townie that didnt get pressured got their voice drowned out.

I am gonna continue to be salty that we lynched obvtown Pokechu when scum was in the pool with my vote on them and it just kept happening where I was universally townread with no one willing to listen to me. And I know this happened to other townies too.

 

[Deleted member]

Moydow
Really nice avatar you got there

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think this game was so frustrating because every townie that got pressured used AtE and/or threatened to replace out or self vote, and every townie that didnt get pressured got their voice drowned out.

I apologize for doing that, truly, but I took a gamble to be townread

Only thing I don't appreciate is being told I'm exploding or having a meltdown, like guys I'm 24 now you think a Mafia game is gonna spike my blood pressure? The only thing that can do that is how I ****ing owe for College lmao

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Hit take pt.2 -- I really liked the nomination setup. The only thing that would make me consider playing another game right now is if it was nomination

(Not lynching who's the scummiest but lynching by PoE at MyLo? That's a me play <3)

I felt your spirit through the role.

 

[Kantrip]

Its okay soup, but please dont do it in the future. Im not gonna take kindly to AtE when used as a tactic and will always assume its a scum play. And when its genuine emotion coming out Id rather the person left the thread than continue being emotional. To be blunt, I thought your 3k read made no sense and if you were frustrated by me and Laundry asking for clarification instead of just blindly trusting you it's simply because we didn't see it. Turns out there was no ulterior motive and sometimes people just don't see what you see.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

...No lol

I didn't even have tunnel vision, I had incomplete thoughts trying to put the pieces together while trying to assess all the other bull**** being posted. I stuck to my guns because it was like comfort food even if it was wrong, but I'm not a one-dimensional player where I always have tunnel vision if you're trying to compare how I read Moydow correctly in PYP and stuck with it; there's more intricacies to my play

no actually I stand by what I said and stick my grounds on this one. I missed out on Day 3 completely in reading (it was the only day I did) but my dude, just chill some lol. I don't even think you're a one-dimensional player or anything else; I just think chill pills can be good. I'm having a hard time communicating exactly what set me off but it wasn't the fact that you were scumreading me. just remember; we already have ryker.

we don't need another ryker.

also frankly, this was part of my problem and laundry's problem too. I was trying to emulate what I pulled in PyP and saw Laundry do it so I figured to go ahead. it didn't pan out for either of us.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

also while we're at it

Vanilla setups are fun IMO, that wasn't the issue (see #1858 for criticism)

i don't think vanilla setups are bad but I can understand people wanting something more up the alley of Star Wars Mafia sometime soon.

I better get back to the setup workshop.