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Etrian Nomination Mafia - Endgame: Until the Day the Adventurers Rise Again

#HBC | Laundry

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Laundry doesn't bother me for his reasoning for being on Shish, but rather the fact that he was adamant I had to move my vote off Z as he wasn't an option. I don't understand why a slot like soup or Fire was viable to move my vote to at the time but Z25 wasn't. The other slots in question didn't really have momentum in their favour either, and I doubt Laundry's reasoning was that we wouldn't be able to get a lynch without Ryker's support. Who knows if Pokechu/Fire/Shish (who were all around as far as I recall) would have supported a Z25 lynch? Along with me, you, and Laundry that would have been enough, and there might have been other people fine with it too? I only recall Nabe and Ryker townreading Z25 at the time, so Ryker making me pick someone else makes sense. Laundry backing him up on that doesn't.
I asked you to move when there were 10 minutes to deadline. At the time, I thought the only support for a Z wagon was going to come from myself, yourself, and Joey. There was little support outside of those three players at the time so I thought it unlikely that a swap would have resulted in the lynch. I had a wagon already formed on a slot I already scumread as well, one who I had placed as a higher priority lynch. I had little incentive to encourage a swap with 10 minutes remaining to a slot I was less confident would flip scum. I also was unaware of the rules and did not realize we didn't need majority to lynch so I was trying to get you into a place where you vote was likely going to matter, be it Shish or Fire. As a result, I asked you to move your vote as I found a Z wagon unlikely.

This was my thought process in its entirety at the time.

:186:
 

Moydow

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Current vote count (as of post #1641):
  • Ryker: 0
  • KY Joey: 2 (Disfunkshunal, Z25)
  • Red Ryu: 2 (Nabe, Ryker)
  • Z25: 1 (KY Joey)

Not currently voting: Red Ryu, Laundry, Kantrip

6 hours remain in this phase.
With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Remember that only the four players listed above may be voted for in this phase! Votes for other players will not count.

 

#HBC | Laundry

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As in, are they aligned? I think it's likely to be one or the other, not both. Koops' vote didn't seem off to me. At the time I was trying to see if Fire would swap to Soup, which would have needed Koops' vote to get a lynch through. But it seemed like Koops had comfortably picked Fire to get through, and wasn't paying attention to the thread. So that initial interaction doesn't look like partners.
That was my concern as well. I was just hitting 3K's catch-up post so I haven't gotten into his vote for Fire, but he does note that your defense of him was a good point at the time. I think his later interests were Kantrip/Shish though so I'm curious why Fire didn't ping him then but did ping him later despite a Shish wagon existing. I'll get to it though.

:186:
 

#HBC | Laundry

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EBWOP: I too think it isn't super telling and find Fire to be the scummier one than 3K here but we'll see. Fire not playing the game makes the slot feel super dicey to try to read, there's too little to justify opinions on its actions.

:186:
 

Dooms

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I already bought one example to the table being that Ryker has also been out here making connections to past games. And apparently because Joey likes Rykers slot he’s ok with that.
Ryker is the only example of significantly doing this and the thing here is that his post "making a connection to past games" doesn't mean much of anything in terms of his read. He was sold on Soup scum/policy lynch before that point. He doesn't go in really hard on how Nabe had the biggest AtE blow up in 2015 where he ruined DGames forever and then reference mafiascum as a source of players doing AtE. With Laundry, you literally made a comparison to a past game where Nabe was godfather and you had him pinned against the wall, and then referenced popular players in Nzone, but literally none of that applies here. The general idea of Soup's AtE being a scum tactic in games as a whole is a universal, understood concept.

Also note that on re-reading Day 3 maybe 2-3 times, I couldn't find the post where he was voting Soup on connections to past games. Correct me if it's the case because reading through that Soup AtE scenario is a struggle, but the fact that there isn't a grand push on Soup for this and Ryker had a LOT of other reasons to vote Soup while your horrible reference to a past game is a selling point for you on Laundry makes them completely different scenarios by itself.

Then he’s complaining about my read and vote changes. We literally had people switching votes to different people and different reads all over the place yesterday.
Did I ever say specifically you voting other people is suspect? Pretty sure I'm targeting the reasoning here, not you actually swapping votes.

Lastly hes just finding nitpicks that could easily be made for other people. Like my pokechu post for example where I say he wasn’t scum. That’s somehow overlooked because I voted pokechu even though I explained my reasoning numerous times. He just doesn’t like it to not like it.
In terms of your reasoning, literally no one should feel like they have their backs against a wall and make a full on scum post for Pokechu when they're not even in the pool. What reason does a townie have for going "I think scum is here, but I'm going to vote Pokechu with a full post saying I don't like his play because town is going to lynch him anyways. I don't think he's actually scum though"? Your reasoning by itself gives me no reason to believe it since it completely contradicts your actual posts at the time of Pokechu's vote.

As a whole, providing your reasoning after a flip with your lack of understanding retrospect just means I have no reason to believe it.

Then there’s the other parts. He seemingly takes no isssue with nabe’s posts until he is grilled on nabe being scum.
I've had Nabe as null. No one has had genuine reason to grill Nabe scum before today aside from the fact that he didn't have posts. I don't remember much of anyone pointing to Nabe's posts and saying "Yeah let's lynch here", it was the idea that he wasn't here. I'm not going to go for a null slot if I have actual scum reads.

He also refuses to believe and find Laundry’s post looking a little bad after his soup fight. Which honestly if you can’t see those two things as at least possibilities, how are you town?
No one has convinced me that Laundry is scum. Why are Laundry's posts looking bad? Laundry talked a LOT to soup, and being done with that after the AtE blow up just doesn't make Laundry scummy. If anything it's null, but nothing that happened Day 3 is enough to throw Laundry from a town read to a scum read since Soup kind of did it to himself with his blow up and the aftermath.

Joey is proving he isn’t open to discussion on some of the bigger plays no matter how hard it wants it to seem he is.
I was suspect of Soup, I'm still suspect of Ryu and now Disfunk, and Day 2 was "everyone is town" scenario. Just because I'm not voting there when your slot exists doesn't mean I'm not open to those lynches happening. There are other scummy people and if other people go that way I'll discuss it with them and have my thoughts out there. Just because I'm not entertaining the idea of "let's vote the completely inactive guy" when your slot exists doesn't mean I'm not open to discussion about other options.

He’s been fixated on me from the start even when others read me as town st the start. It’s pretty clear he wants to j my see a picture where I’m scum and he hasn’t hard stayed on any other scum choices really.
WIFOM. Why do I have to read you town just because other players meta read you as town?

This vote has most of the same stuff I went over in my wall. Gives me absolutely no reason to change my vote.

Note that due to multiple lynches happening if we don't hammer, I will hammer Ryu if needed though. I should be here until deadline.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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My thoughts vary drastically depending on what agendas Ryu/Z push if I'm being honest.

Disregarding the pool choice today, I REALLY don't like how Z was willing to make a full on case on Pokechu at the end of the day and then back off of it completely. I wouldn't be shocked if he pulls the same thing for Soup at this point since when we talked, he wanted this lynch more for information than to actually lynch scum (and the comment about Laundry lines up with this logic). This also is VERY bad for town to think considering that if we mislynch in this nomination, we're going to be in lylo.

If I ignored mechanics, my vote would be on Z 100%.
This is honestly my biggest problem with Z, I don’t like how he backed off on day 2 and wanted to gun at Ryker despite saying he was ok to lynch him day 3 and ignoring him for Ryker.

Order of priorities made zero sense.

checking how he justfied it or of Z did
 

Dooms

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It's been consistent with what I've been saying.

To put it in other words, I would rather hang you but I'm not going to get hung up on my own direction if the group decides to go a different way. This whole phase, collective, united, consensus, have been my buzzwords and I've been very consistent about that. If Ryker is down, and Kantrip is down, and Ryu is down to test Ryu's and Nabe's slots, that sounds like the beginning of a consensus to me. And I can still get information that I want out of it too.
Consistency doesn't make it good dude. Especially when you have a slot you'd set yourself up to get lynched for. Even then, jumping from me with that logic to agreeing to Ryu/Nabe is pretty inconsistent as a whole (especially if you think Ryu is more likely to be town in that scenario).

Why are you hunting for info when we're one phase away from Lylo? We need to hit scum, not hunt for a "two players aren't aligned" scenario when they could just both be town.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Fuuuuuuuuuck. It's a wall war between Z and Joey? Fine, fine. I'll cover it in an hour when I exist. I have to sort out what to do with Z anyway.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Consistency doesn't make it good dude. Especially when you have a slot you'd set yourself up to get lynched for. Even then, jumping from me with that logic to agreeing to Ryu/Nabe is pretty inconsistent as a whole (especially if you think Ryu is more likely to be town in that scenario).

Why are you hunting for info when we're one phase away from Lylo? We need to hit scum, not hunt for a "two players aren't aligned" scenario when they could just both be town.
Be real on this.

You think Nabe is town if I flip town when you have him as null?

i’m a-ok of my lynch leads to his, that’s how confident he is scum.
 

#HBC | Laundry

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the post you quoted here. #204. That's what I was waiting on. Shish and Kantrip. Kantrip's responses actually didn't disappoint and Shish/Chu is worth pressuring but I'm more interested in Fire, Soup, and Z right now. Z and Soup more-so for the interactions other people have with him, and Fire because I legit haven't seen a single post that makes me think he's town.

that said

Vote: Fire Emblemier. I feel this more than Shish. A lot of his play feels more like shadow play.

If you all want to don't want to deal with a replacement and genuinely think I should be lynched, go for it. I'll fight tooth and nail since I know I'm town (going to be walking outside though to get fresh air). For the record, still, I am replacing out - It has nothing to do with all of ya'll. Ya'll are wonderful people.

(I'm actually really sad over this since I wanted to play more with Laundry, Ryker, Z25, and Chu, but here I am :186:)
Yeh, upon reading this again, I strongly doubt Funko/Ruy are aligned now.

**** this is frustrating lmao.

:186:
 

Dooms

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Be real on this.

You think Nabe is town if I flip town when you have him as null?

i’m a-ok of my lynch leads to his, that’s how confident he is scum.
I don't. I'm not saying that I do. I'm saying that I have no reason to just follow you blindly. If you want Nabe lynched, I want you to feel like you need to be here to push that train.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Yeh, upon reading this again, I strongly doubt Funko/Ruy are aligned now.

**** this is frustrating lmao.

:186:
Yeah, I have brought this up like six different times.

You have Funko offering himself for Joey and you have Ruy offering himself for Nabe. Somewhere in this game there almost has to be a bus. Where is it?
 

#HBC | Ryker

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  • Ryker: 0
  • KY Joey: 2 (Disfunkshunal, Z25)
  • Red Ryu: 3 (Nabe, Ryker, Laundry)
  • Z25: 1 (KY Joey)

Aside from this, Nabe maybe would go me. Kantrip is somewhere I don't recall where. Ruy is looking at Z25 or Joey and hasn't sorted it out yet (correct me if any of this is wrong).

Does every stance shown here ring as definitely not aligned?
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I don't. I'm not saying that I do. I'm saying that I have no reason to just follow you blindly. If you want Nabe lynched, I want you to feel like you need to be here to push that train.
No one listens to me anyways.

but answer me on the nabe part, do you think of I flipped town he wouldn’t look way worse?
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Kantrip I think is looking at Ruy at the moment. Even then, just breaking it down to the votecount isn't enough.

Nabe wants Funko/Ruy, thinks scum is among those two slots.
Joey wants Z...like hardcore just wants Z at this moment. Doesn't want you or me.
You want Ruy/Nabe.
I want Ruy/Funko too.
Z is like Nabe/Joey/Me.
Kantrip is hard sold on me.
Ruy wants Nabe/myself/Z, outside shot Joey or Funko.

If Nabe is scum, he's getting bussed.
If Z is scum, he's getting bussed.
If Ruy's scum, he's getting bussed.

Nabe sitting on fire early in the game and now sitting on Ruy might be interesting? I could see Nabe pushing for the bus more than the reverse.

:186:
 

Dooms

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No one listens to me anyways.

but answer me on the nabe part, do you think of I flipped town he wouldn’t look way worse?
No I do think on your town flip he would look worse, but not worse enough to follow you after you die for it.

With how inconsistent your votes have been with your reads + your "I don't care if it's scummy I want this!" mentality, I don't judge people for viewing you as scummy. That and the way Disfunk is playing with the fact that he's willing to cooperate with town to go whatever lynch makes a x or y scenario makes me understand why someone like town!Nabe would go into tomorrow thinking "If Ryu is town, Disfunk is sus".
 

#HBC | Laundry

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Actually I'm curious about the bus driver in that world. Z's the easiest slot in the world to push, but Ruy's not much harder. Nabe could easily be bussing Ruy for that matter. I like his analysis but Nabe is competent enough to sell that and the consistency of pushing the Fire/Ruy slot doesn't seem insignificant throughout the game is interesting. This is looking a bit past his posts so I'm not super sold on it but I do think that Ruy scum might not actually absolve Nabe.

:186:
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Why do you guys ask me questions( specifically Ryker and Joey).

The small responses you guys have been given me when I log on and answer whatever I’m tagged for just feel like they are mostly ignored. So I don’t get why I answer to begin with. But again I’m always one to try and contribute so I respond.
I'm shamelessly trapping. I am getting your take on certain going-ons in the thread that I find pivotal at the time. I want your stances there so you don't get to formulate a narrative as to what you were thinking at the time later on. If you're scum, I'm confident you'll hang yourself by the end as long as I give you a rope.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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No I do think on your town flip he would look worse, but not worse enough to follow you after you die for it.

With how inconsistent your votes have been with your reads + your "I don't care if it's scummy I want this!" mentality, I don't judge people for viewing you as scummy. That and the way Disfunk is playing with the fact that he's willing to cooperate with town to go whatever lynch makes a x or y scenario makes me understand why someone like town!Nabe would go into tomorrow thinking "If Ryu is town, Disfunk is sus".
True I play with a I give zero ****s and do what I think is scummy and lynch it.

but I don’t get the disfunk part. If he is cooperative and rolls with town, so? Unless you think he is being a blind sheep but I don’t see that with how he handled today and yesterday.
 

Dooms

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legit talk, why do people think funk is scum or sketch?
Putting your slot on the line tomorrow to lynch someone today is suspect considering how easy it is to take that back on my town flip, but the biggest thing to me is the fact that Funk is willing to vote you just to get Nabe lynched tomorrow. This is a scenario where he thinks you're more likely to be town than Nabe, but because it gets Nabe lynched, he's willing to kill you a day before lylo? It's even more sus because it's less his logic and more "the town wants it so who am I to stop them when I don't like Nabe".
 

#HBC | Laundry

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legit talk, why do people think funk is scum or sketch?
I agreed with Nabe's analysis saying he could've had the Nabe lynch if he wanted it but got cold feet when the wagons tied and cratered the wagon by jumping off. Him coming back around to Nabe in spite of that is pretty ???.

:186:
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Actually I'm curious about the bus driver in that world. Z's the easiest slot in the world to push, but Ruy's not much harder. Nabe could easily be bussing Ruy for that matter. I like his analysis but Nabe is competent enough to sell that and the consistency of pushing the Fire/Ruy slot doesn't seem insignificant throughout the game is interesting. This is looking a bit past his posts so I'm not super sold on it but I do think that Ruy scum might not actually absolve Nabe.

:186:
What is he on a town flip? It seems like you are interested in the idea of him busing me as scum but if that is the case wouldn’t that still apply and make you think on a town flip.

you seem sold on him being town for some reason, but you seem to be leaving an open door on either flip. Like my lynch doesn’t change how will approach and look at Nabe.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Kantrip Kantrip I agree with Alex in that I stonewalled your lynch, not him. I was the one who wanted to see you out there and involved without being able to just sit out there in space. Regardless of whether that was the correct decision, I'll shoulder that one. I'm pretty sure Alex's timeframe was correct because he wasn't actually available for a lot of the final lead-up and only said you couldn't have it when there was no time left.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I agreed with Nabe's analysis saying he could've had the Nabe lynch if he wanted it but got cold feet when the wagons tied and cratered the wagon by jumping off. Him coming back around to Nabe in spite of that is pretty ???.

:186:
lay this out for me then.

i said this before but everyone glossed over it, who was around for it to change it and willing from Soup to Nabe?

Who are around that last hour to do it and wasn’t around at deadline? If Soup dipped and Joey wasn’t going to do it with us four, I think Z was around, was that even going to happen?
 

#HBC | Laundry

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lay this out for me then.

i said this before but everyone glossed over it, who was around for it to change it and willing from Soup to Nabe?

Who are around that last hour to do it and wasn’t around at deadline? If Soup dipped and Joey wasn’t going to do it with us four, I think Z was around, was that even going to happen?
I was on Soup, Ryker was on Soup. Both of us were gone. Soup would go wherever to save his life, be it Z or Nabe. I think if you convince Joey a Z wagon's not happening that day and tell Z to vote Nabe, you have 5 people right there. All five of you were around yet no effort was made to do so. Did he actually want your lynch? Seems questionable in hindsight.

:186:
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Kantrip I think is looking at Ruy at the moment. Even then, just breaking it down to the votecount isn't enough.

Nabe wants Funko/Ruy, thinks scum is among those two slots.
Joey wants Z...like hardcore just wants Z at this moment. Doesn't want you or me.
You want Ruy/Nabe.
I want Ruy/Funko too.
Z is like Nabe/Joey/Me.
Kantrip is hard sold on me.
Ruy wants Nabe/myself/Z, outside shot Joey or Funko.

If Nabe is scum, he's getting bussed.
If Z is scum, he's getting bussed.
If Ruy's scum, he's getting bussed.

Nabe sitting on fire early in the game and now sitting on Ruy might be interesting? I could see Nabe pushing for the bus more than the reverse.

:186:
I'm curious of your analysis of these behaviors. Which of these rings true and which untrue to you. If you show me your list, I'll show you mine.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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Your turn, same question to you: where's the bus?

:186:
Solving that at the moment. I'm not certain. There's a ton of places it could be. Unless my scum team is the aforementioned you/Nabe/Joey power play, then one of the scumteam eliminations I've made is wrong or Kantrip is scum. I don't think it's the latter.
 
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