ENTER THE HARDBODY

[Orboknown]

heading out. like i said v/la this weekend for work so my vote's effectively locked on PJB.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm actually completely read up so you don't need worry about the deadline.

I'm def. down to hammer Orb and am OK with Rockin and Kary dying as well. Vig should shoot one of these guys. Not sure why people have mentioned Kat as a vig candidate, he's like the most obvtown slot in this game. Ran / Kat / Nabe are my town reads, the last scumbag is probably between PJB and Death Bear assuming Orb flips scum. Though I have to say that the arguments on lynching PJB so far have been pretty unconvincing. "He's overly defensive" = complete BS. He always appears that way and it's not scummy anyway.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

If the arguments to lynch me are so unconvincing, then why am I probable scum on an Orbo scumflip?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Your push for a Nabe claim was pretty shady imo for starters. I don't actually have much time to really go into detail on you / DB right now but that's something I'll come back to toMorrow in case none of us die anyway.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Also what about Nabe? What's your opinion of him?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ran / Kat / Nabe are my town reads

Mostly based on the claim scenario.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Me wanting the guy who claimed Town Hider, when during the night we had the real Hider flip, to reclaim is shady?

 

[Death Bear]

I fail to see how Rockin scum implies me as scum

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Me wanting the guy who claimed Town Hider, when during the night we had the real Hider flip, to reclaim is shady?

You oversimplify that scenario by a lot. If his explanations on the fakeclaim and his softclaim don't add up to you then only because you don't want them to add up. If you look at the way he presented his claim how can you think it'd even make remotely sense for him to do that as scum? It's such an unlikely idea to push that I have a hard time believing that anybody would still insist on him doing a full-claim. Since nobody could come up with a plausible explanation on how his behavior would make sense as scum, whereas he himself did a decent job of explaining himself I find it hard to see a genuine pro-town motivation behind pushing for his claim.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bear, you're also making things too easy on yourself. There is no particular connection between you and Orb that would damn you in case of him flipping scum but there's also nothing that makes a scumpartnership between you two unlikely in any way. And it's not always the connections that matter - sometimes it's just individual things that make me think somebody is scum. A Bardull / Orbo / Bear team would make enough sense for me to consider it a possible team.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

wtf, it's SO OBVIOUS why he claimed the way he did. He wanted to live. He's still living because of it. His method didn't even expose any of his scum buddies, he just makes it so he lives TWO more days than he should have.

He claimed Hider because claiming VT wouldn't have been enough to deter a lynch. He claimed super late in the day, and got lucky that actualHider Kuz wasn't around to counterclaim him.

He then comes into the next day, after being exposed, and tells us "just kidding, I'm actually one of the other 2 PRs, but I won't say which one. This allows him to just sit on that claim, and nobody can counterclaim him without potentially exposing themselves needlessly. This is a win/win for Nabe, because he either exposes actual town PRs to Nks, or he successfully lives another day on a bs claim.

How is it impossible to see scum intent in all that? Why is it so implausible? Especially when it's working.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[quote="PrivateJoker-Brown, post: 15414724, member: 208178"[...] got lucky that actualHider Kuz wasn't around to counterclaim him.[/quote]

And you think scum banked on precisely that unlikely case to happen?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea, he was gonna die anyway, why not chance it?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

1 am here. I'll respond to more stuff toMorrow and leave this here with you in the meantime:

Vote Orbo

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yea, he was gonna die anyway, why not chance it?

He would've gone for Vig / Detective then.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

mwahahahaa

mwahahahahaaa

also, seriously lol gheb thinks i'm scum?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

but then nobody would believe him if he survived the night phase.

 

[Death Bear]

Take Gheb off the Vig list.

Vig Rockin/Kata.

More later after talk time.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

He may also have had a suspicion of Kuz being the hider, since he was the one who proposed the plan about using the Hider role as a pseudo investigative. Kuz was decidedly V/LA, so he would've had good reason to believe to could get away with it.

There's any number of reasons he could have quite logically chosen the options he did as a scummer.

 

[Death Bear]

Kary if I counted right, your the only one not on Orbo or PJB.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

that is correct, Death Bear. I hold the whole game in my hands.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Going to bed, gotta drive my mom to the airport at 3AM, do the right thing and vote PJB.

 

[Rockin]

rockin, chime in.
oh snap, rockin ran and pjb means I'm actually in lynch range at L2. Don't be stupid and let private scum get away guys.

what you want me to chime in about?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm actually completely read up so you don't need worry about the deadline.

I'm def. down to hammer Orb and am OK with Rockin and Kary dying as well. Vig should shoot one of these guys. Not sure why people have mentioned Kat as a vig candidate, he's like the most obvtown slot in this game. Ran / Kat / Nabe are my town reads, the last scumbag is probably between PJB and Death Bear assuming Orb flips scum. Though I have to say that the arguments on lynching PJB so far have been pretty unconvincing. "He's overly defensive" = complete BS. He always appears that way and it's not scummy anyway.

So Gheb! Hi. I have a few questions for you:

#1 Why don't your vig picks add up with your scumpicks? If you think scum is in PJB/Death Bear/Orbo, why do Rockin and I need to die? Or do you actually just have three town reads, and no idea beyond that?

#2 How can you think that PJB might be scum on an Orbo scumflip? Surely you can't think all the interactions between their two slots might be SvS?

#3 The hell do you want me vigged for? Firstly I have no idea why you would think I was scum, and secondly its pretty damn obvious that I'm not scum because I have my pick of the waggons here and haven't just layed a vote down already.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Speaking of which, we have a whole 'nother 24 hours unless i'm mistaken. I fully intend to use them because I'm way too sleepy right now. I'd be interested to hear from Orbo, from Kata, from Gheb. I would address Orbo a question but I'm told he's gone for the weekend. Whatever, here it is:

Orbo, if PJB is scum, which waggon is his buddy on, and who might it be?
if PJB is town, where is the scumteam right now?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I suggest everyone leaves their votes where they are and don't do anything daft. Trust Kary, forget problems.

If you'd like to talk about switching to a Kataefi lynch, you can use

FoS: Kata

to register your interest.

goodnight

 

[#HBC | Kary]

P.S. Death Bear I am gobsmacked you're fine with Gheb after that entrance. but w/e

 

[Death Bear]

For me(Rake) it was meh.

If anything I'm wondering how gheb's connections work.

I don't see how he qualifies Kata as obvtown at all lol

 

[ranmaru]

I'll give you the hilt thing, but it's still kinda ick to me. Whatever, you're the likely lynch anyways. I'm L3 with you being L1.

This is disgusting, Orbo. You drop the point but somehow it's still ick to you? You realize your own slot did the same thing, joining Hilt while he was pushing Rockin for something he didn't care about?

I'm actually completely read up so you don't need worry about the deadline.

I'm def. down to hammer Orb and am OK with Rockin and Kary dying as well. Vig should shoot one of these guys. Not sure why people have mentioned Kat as a vig candidate, he's like the most obvtown slot in this game. Ran / Kat / Nabe are my town reads, the last scumbag is probably between PJB and Death Bear assuming Orb flips scum. Though I have to say that the arguments on lynching PJB so far have been pretty unconvincing. "He's overly defensive" = complete BS. He always appears that way and it's not scummy anyway.

I disagree on Rockin and Kary. I am interested on your explanation for those two. I agree DeBear may be scum on a Orbo scum flip. Wondering about your reasoning for PJB's connection as scum to Orbo scum.

 

[ranmaru]

Not for switching to Kat.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

but then nobody would believe him if he survived the night phase.

Could you please make your mind on what your actual argument is already? Is it him trying to survive or is it him trying to bait out a PR?

He may also have had a suspicion of Kuz being the hider, since he was the one who proposed the plan about using the Hider role as a pseudo investigative. Kuz was decidedly V/LA, so he would've had good reason to believe to could get away with it.

There's any number of reasons he could have quite logically chosen the options he did as a scummer.

You can't just sweep the risk / reward ratio under the rug. The amount of assumptions you make to tailor a scenario in which Nabe is scum is a lot higher and a lot less likely than the scenario in which Nabe is town.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

#1 Why don't your vig picks add up with your scumpicks? If you think scum is in PJB/Death Bear/Orbo, why do Rockin and I need to die? Or do you actually just have three town reads, and no idea beyond that?

Who said that you / Rockin aren't among my scumpicks? I certainly didn't. On the other hand, I never outright said that I have scumreads on PJB and Death Bear either. So yeah, it doesn't add up because you're reading things I've never said.

#2 How can you think that PJB might be scum on an Orbo scumflip? Surely you can't think all the interactions between their two slots might be SvS?

Don't see why it's as unlikely as people make it seem. Though I'd agree if you said that Bear would fit better into an Orb / Bardull team than PJB does.

#3 The hell do you want me vigged for? Firstly I have no idea why you would think I was scum, and secondly its pretty damn obvious that I'm not scum because I have my pick of the waggons here and haven't just layed a vote down already.

I have no idea what the second half of this statement is supposed to mean or how it relates to me reading you as scummy. As for the first part, I think your pushes have been pretty awful. I have my doubts that all of that was genuine.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Well since everyone seems content to foolishly let Nabe slide on not claiming today, despite everybody being in complete agreement that he needs to claim, I guess I have no choice.

Vote: Orbo

I'll be damned if I let myself go down while obvscum is hanging around. Let's do dis.

You don't actually think this.

Vote: PJB

 

[Kataefi]

^omg is that the hammah???

Kary (or Sister Fidelma) stop spending time on me You're attempting to kill the one player who has netted scum this game so far. Where can I see your analysis about Bardull's interactions with me? I'm keen to know why he put my name forward for the lynch at a turning point in the game when I could have very well been lynched...

Moving on:

KAT! You need to get in here and respond to my #1374!!!

Ranny I saw the unedited post Soup made before it evolved into a pokemon. It said "Ranmauru you're being ********". Would he run away the moment he was called out on only to come back and put down one of his wagoners like this (as scum)? That's not a stylish move to make!

so lynching/vigging from your bottom four should be GG kary?

Orbo how are you planning to use the answers here out of curiosity? I don't understand the utility of such a question. Do you accept Kary's reads? Are there any that you disagree with particularly?

Gunna read Kat one more time, i might join that kata push Kary.

PJB may or may not come back to be a thing, I feel like i shouldn't let this go.

Can you elaborate on the bolded? It reads as if you're leaving yourself many options open. I have repetitively heard my D2 play brings me down. I don't deny this, but is this alignment related? Can you give reasons as to why I'm scum with Bardull?

FWIW I dislike the players who are fixated on talking about the easiest things toDay, such as wanting Nabe's claim so badly and pushing PJB so heavily. Yes I am mainly looking at PJB/Bearface/Soup. This is also one of the reasons I wanted to look into Soup more when he crashed down on PJB so suddenly at the start despite stating he was thinking through things logically. It would be counter-productive to start busing at 7 vs 2 due to the complications involved for scum in the future, so I can see scum attempting to take advantage of someone or mould someone into a scummie and then push here, especially considering there are talks of MYLO, which is the temptation they need to ensure a townie is lynched toDay, right?

Also as a sidenote: I find it odd people have accepted Nabe will be alive in time for him to claim. He should have claimed. He's leaked enough to scum for them to be interested in killing him, so I'll be surprised to see him alive

This is essentially what I've been looking out for, just things have popped up unexpectedly both inside and outside the thread. I want to wrap this Day up so the thread can breathe and I can do a mass reread and eliminate all the scummies, especially with what I have in store

 

[ranmaru]

Yes and yes. He would call me ******** as scum to make me look stupid. He's done it before (and failed). I don't deny that he has personal issues but his slot is still scum.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Could you please make your mind on what your actual argument is already? Is it him trying to survive or is it him trying to bait out a PR?



You can't just sweep the risk / reward ratio under the rug. The amount of assumptions you make to tailor a scenario in which Nabe is scum is a lot higher and a lot less likely than the scenario in which Nabe is town.

But there is no risk/reward ratio. He had everything to gain and nothing to lose. He was going to die anyway. It's all reward.

 

[ranmaru]

Check out my #1417 and my #1416 since that was my re-read from page 1 - page 20. I think you should look at Soup's interactions with Bardull, and his near deadline play (and his vote on rockin > hilt).

 

[ranmaru]

Also no, that wasn't hammer. Nabe is already on PJB.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to prepare for my driving lesson, which is in two hours. (I'm gonna shower and head out within the hour)

Be back by around 9:30 PM. It's 6:00 PM eastern now.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

so hey guys, we're still here!

why do I feel like both scum might be on the same waggon here? anywho! some responses that probably aren't relevant toDay, but what the hell!

Who said that you / Rockin aren't among my scumpicks? I certainly didn't. On the other hand, I never outright said that I have scumreads on PJB and Death Bear either. So yeah, it doesn't add up because you're reading things I've never said.

Oh, ok. So do you want to actually share what your reads are? Or are you being a jerk?

I have no idea what the second half of this statement is supposed to mean or how it relates to me reading you as scummy. As for the first part, I think your pushes have been pretty awful. I have my doubts that all of that was genuine.

I could literally hammer PJB or Orbo here. If I was scum, at least one of them would be town, so I would probably be killing the townie right now. But I haven't and i'm delaying and still asking questions. Unless this is all a ruse to concoct additional town points which I clearly don't need.

Oh. and my pushes are generically bad. I'll bear that in mind, i'm assuming you have a withering counter-analysis up your sleeve, rather than just thinking 'hurr durr he pushed my townpicks must be scum'.