Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Altais]

^I checked the list, and it seems I'm on it. That said, though, I personally am indifferent to the idea of support lists.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Honestly, I think don't think it's healthy to think of Smash like this because Sakurai obviously doesn't. If you're going into Pass 2 with the idea that Sakurai should round out the roster with the nebulous goal of "representation" then, I'm sorry, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I think all of those series are overdue for new characters just as much as you do, but at the end of the day, that isn't Sakurai's intent with his work. He just wants to make a good fighting game with characters he imagines would be fun. We know he's thought about adding reps from those series, even if they ultimately didn't make it in the end. Yes, in my heart of hearts, I want another MonolithSoft character (preferably Elma or KOS-MOS, but I'd take Rex or even Lora) to rep my favorite series, but if Sakurai couldn't think of a way to make them a blast to play and really do them justice then I'd rather he didn't.

No offense to Fire Emblem fans but a Three Houses rep aka Byleth was obviously pushed by Nintendo just like Corrin was during Smash 4 DLC. Those characters are in for more promotional reasons than anything else. Yes, Sakurai could have wanted those characters because he thought they were unique. But I think it's more likely he put them in because Nintendo told him to for promotional advertisement. I mean besides the veterans and the Ballot picks in this game the rest have been pretty much promotional characters like Isabelle to promote Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Incineroar to promote the latest generation of Pokemon, Hero to promote Dragon Quest 11, and Byleth to promote Fire Emblem: Three Houses. Before you ask about Joker and Terry they're mainly Sakurai picks whether than promotional ones.

 

[Limitbreakfull]

I've collected my thoughts on Byleth's reveal. On the one hand Sakurai/Nintendo checked off my personal list: Nintendo Rep, Female, Alt Fire Emblem Weapons, and 1+ more Whip user in the style of Ivy Valentine.

On the other, No Xenoblade rep, and 1+ character in a saturated series of reps. I think its best to take the next 6 reveals with a grain of salt(Corrin prepared me for Byleth.) The important part is that Monolith Soft hasn't forgotten her .

(Hey quick question, did anyone else for a second think of Viewtiful Joe when Sakurai did the Binary number count? )

 

[Flyboy]

No offense to Fire Emblem fans but a Three Houses rep aka Byleth was obviously pushed by Nintendo just like Corrin was during Smash 4 DLC. Those characters are in for more promotional reasons than anything else. Yes, Sakurai could have wanted those characters because he thought they were unique. But I think it's more likely he put them in because Nintendo told him to for promotional advertisement. I mean besides the veterans and the Ballot picks in this game the rest have been pretty much promotional characters like Isabelle to promote Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Incineroar to promote the latest generation of Pokemon, Hero to promote Dragon Quest 11, and Byleth to promote Fire Emblem: Three Houses. Before you ask about Joker and Terry they're mainly Sakurai picks whether than promotional ones.

This post stupid as hell. Isabelle, one of the most popular modern Nintendo icons, a promotional pick just because they announced a new AC game afterwards? **** outta here. This attitude sucks. Hero wasn't promotional, though using the most modern protagonist as the default may have been, because Dragon Quest is a legendary series. Byleth is a modern character and perhaps Nintendo could've said that they wanted a modern character and once again it's lucky that Three Houses won more awards than Smash at the Game Awards including a fan-voted game of the year award over Smash but oh my god you're stretching so hard. Oh my god.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This post stupid as hell. Isabelle, one of the most popular modern Nintendo icons, a promotional pick just because they announced a new AC game afterwards? **** outta here. This attitude sucks. Hero wasn't promotional, though using the most modern protagonist as the default may have been, because Dragon Quest is a legendary series. Byleth is a modern character and perhaps Nintendo could've said that they wanted a modern character and once again it's lucky that Three Houses won more awards than Smash at the Game Awards including a fan-voted game of the year award over Smash but oh my god you're stretching so hard. Oh my god.

I'm just saying how it really is. You can disagree with me if you wish, but you can't change my mind.

 

[Flyboy]

I'm just saying how it really is. You can disagree with me if you wish, but you can't change my mind.

"How it really is" okay buddy

 

[I.D.]

This post stupid as hell. Isabelle, one of the most popular modern Nintendo icons, a promotional pick just because they announced a new AC game afterwards? **** outta here. This attitude sucks. Hero wasn't promotional, though using the most modern protagonist as the default may have been, because Dragon Quest is a legendary series. Byleth is a modern character and perhaps Nintendo could've said that they wanted a modern character and once again it's lucky that Three Houses won more awards than Smash at the Game Awards including a fan-voted game of the year award over Smash but oh my god you're stretching so hard. Oh my god.

Boo ****ing hoo byleth was picked a year before his game released and got any possible reception and his presentation was immediately followed by an advertisement for 3 Houses dlc. He's a shillpick through and through get over it.
Since awards and **** are so important why are you even supporting a xenoblade character.

 

[Flyboy]

Boo ****ing hoo byleth was picked a year before his game released and got any possible reception and his presentation was immediately followed by an advertisement for 3 Houses dlc. He's a shillpick through and through get over it.
Since awards and **** are so important why are you even supporting a xenoblade character.

who are you dude

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Boo ****ing hoo byleth was picked a year before his game released and got any possible reception and his presentation was immediately followed by an advertisement for 3 Houses dlc. He's a shillpick through and through get over it.
Since awards and **** are so important why are you even supporting a xenoblade character.

Hi, can you please not? I don’t want this hostility in my thread

 

[Staarih]

Sometimes I think how much better(?) things would be if Elma had got in Smash 4 instead of Corrin (as a ”promotional pick”), and getting Byleth now wouldn’t feel as samey I guess. I like Byleth, but Xenoblade is in dire need of more representation. I do feel like the doors are open for one now, not sure if it’s gonna be Rex or Elma or someone else. I’m confident XCX will be ported at some point, hopefully between XCDefinitive and whatever new IP Monolith Soft has. So Elma could still happen, and would coincide nicely with Smash season 2 which is scheduled to go on for almost two years.

 

[OsirisOda]

No offense to Fire Emblem fans but a Three Houses rep aka Byleth was obviously pushed by Nintendo just like Corrin was during Smash 4 DLC. Those characters are in for more promotional reasons than anything else. Yes, Sakurai could have wanted those characters because he thought they were unique. But I think it's more likely he put them in because Nintendo told him to for promotional advertisement. I mean besides the veterans and the Ballot picks in this game the rest have been pretty much promotional characters like Isabelle to promote Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Incineroar to promote the latest generation of Pokemon, Hero to promote Dragon Quest 11, and Byleth to promote Fire Emblem: Three Houses. Before you ask about Joker and Terry they're mainly Sakurai picks whether than promotional ones.

Boiling characters down to a promotional pick is kind of insensitive imo. You could at least acknowledge that people who wanted these characters do exist, and not undermine that collective desire. Especially when it's those people who wanted Isabelle and Byleth the most had to deal with the most nonsense from toxic fans, ESPECIALLY when the characters were actually revealed. Speculate all you want about the decision making minds of Sakurai and Nintendo, but I ask you don't bring down the integrity of characters anymore, whether or not you enjoy having them in the game or for whatever reason they may be in.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sometimes I think how much better(?) things would be if Elma had got in Smash 4 instead of Corrin (as a ”promotional pick”), and getting Byleth now wouldn’t feel as samey I guess. I like Byleth, but Xenoblade is in dire need of more representation. I do feel like the doors are open for one now, not sure if it’s gonna be Rex or Elma or someone else. I’m confident XCX will be ported at some point, hopefully between XCDefinitive and whatever new IP Monolith Soft has. So Elma could still happen, and would coincide nicely with Smash season 2 which is scheduled to go on for almost two years.

Maybe right after XCDE? In fact, Elma could even coincide with her making a cameo IN XCDE.

 

[I.D.]

Speculate all you want about the decision making minds of Sakurai and Nintendo, but I ask you don't bring down the integrity of characters anymore, whether or not you enjoy having them in the game or for whatever reason they may be in.

He was picked a year before his game released, what is there to speculate? Did Sakurai see it winning a game award in his crystal ball?

 

[OsirisOda]

He was picked a year before his game released, what is there to speculate? Did Sakurai see it winning a game award in his crystal ball?

Hey, I'm not one the one trying to prod into the wild mind of Sakurai. If any of you think you got a read on that man, be my guest, but I'll take whatever Sakurai or Nintendo have to throw at us with gusto.

Here's hoping one of those picks were Elma.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Let me ask you folks a question: Why was a Fire Emblem: Three Houses rep chosen over Rex & Pyra when Sakurai specifically said something along the lines in the November 2018 Smash Direct that Rex couldn't make it as DLC because of his game coming out too late after the project plan when Byleth's game is almost 2 years younger? I call ******** on that right there because that tells us Sakurai lied to us in favor of his bias.

 

[Flyboy]

Let me ask you folks a question: Why was a Fire Emblem: Three Houses rep chosen over Rex & Pyra when Sakurai specifically said something along the lines in the November 2018 Smash Direct that Rex couldn't make it as DLC because of his game coming out too late after the project plan when Byleth's game is almost 2 years younger? I call ******** on that right there because that tells us Sakurai lied to us in favor of his bias.

I think it has to do with the delays (TH was delayed about three times I believe), and it also has to do with Nintendo's influence as well as when Sakurai played the game. XC2 he played after release, TH he played pre-release.

 

[SilverSoul24]

Let me ask you folks a question: Why was a Fire Emblem: Three Houses rep chosen over Rex & Pyra when Sakurai specifically said something along the lines in the November 2018 Smash Direct that Rex couldn't make it as DLC because of his game coming out too late after the project plan when Byleth's game is almost 2 years younger? I call ******** on that right there because that tells us Sakurai lied to us in favor of his bias.

My best guess: Rex was passed over for the base roster because that lineup was locked in sometime in 2016 (I think? It could have been even earlier) and his game just came out too late to be considered. For all we know, at that time, the initial Fighters Pass was the only DLC that was planned. Nintendo picked those 5, not Sakurai. That's why I got so upset watching PapaGenos reaction to Byleth because Sakurai does not have a bias toward Fire Emblem, he just does what the people upstairs at Nintendo tell him. Seriously one of the most selfish and childish videos made by a grown adult I've ever seen. Anyway, when the Fighters Pass sold as insanely well as it did, Nintendo likely picked the next lineup of DLC sometime in early-mid 2019. Here's hoping that the sixth character is indeed Rex, since Sakurai could feel inclined to make good on including him since he missed the boat the first time.

But, to keep this relevant to Elma, I'd love to hope that she is one of the initial 5 for Fighters Pass 2, perhaps coinciding with an X port? I'd even take a cameo in Xenoblade DE at this point. Getting her and Rex in the same pass would be a dream come true.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My real guess is Rex, as well as Spring Man and Officer Howard, had mechanics that would be very difficult to translate to Smash. How would you control both Howard and their Legion? Rex would be a mix of Ice Climbers and Pokémon Trainer which is a lot to unpack, what would happen when the Blade gets KO’d? And Spring Man’s grab range would probably be too OP

so yeah I kinda think it’s a mechanics issue here

Octoling from Octo Expansion, for example, should be no issue as you can literally use Inkling as a base; those other three gotta start from scratch

 

[OsirisOda]

Let me ask you folks a question: Why was a Fire Emblem: Three Houses rep chosen over Rex & Pyra when Sakurai specifically said something along the lines in the November 2018 Smash Direct that Rex couldn't make it as DLC because of his game coming out too late after the project plan when Byleth's game is almost 2 years younger? I call ******** on that right there because that tells us Sakurai lied to us in favor of his bias.

Because Byleth's design was likely finalized long before Rex's ever was. If Byleth had a complete design before Rex did, I'd say that qualifies as XBC2 being too late to the swing. Just like they were too late to qualify for The Game Awards, which was honestly tragic.

You shouldn't throw around words like "liar" without grasping a better understanding of how long games and their characters are in development, and the process of it all. It's also a poor argument to say Sakurai favored Byleth over Rex when while revealing that Mii Costume he explicitly stated he wished he could have added Rex.

Not like any of that matters since Byleth being revealed tears open the portal of 1st party and gives Rex a new chance.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

My real guess is Rex, as well as Spring Man and Officer Howard, had mechanics that would be very difficult to translate to Smash. How would you control both Howard and their Legion? Rex would be a mix of Ice Climbers and Pokémon Trainer which is a lot to unpack, what would happen when the Blade gets KO’d? And Spring Man’s grab range would probably be too OP

so yeah I kinda think it’s a mechanics issue here

Perhaps. After all, the main focus of the base roster was to bring back every single veteran in the series back into the game. Though Rex & Pyra could have easily been DLC regardless of the project plan.

 

[Jocario Zero]

What on earth did just happen here? Was that really necessary?

 

[SilverSoul24]

My real guess is Rex, as well as Spring Man and Officer Howard, had mechanics that would be very difficult to translate to Smash. How would you control both Howard and their Legion? Rex would be a mix of Ice Climbers and Pokémon Trainer which is a lot to unpack, what would happen when the Blade gets KO’d? And Spring Man’s grab range would probably be too OP

so yeah I kinda think it’s a mechanics issue here

Octoling from Octo Expansion, for example, should be no issue as you can literally use Inkling as a base; those other three gotta start from scratch

So much this. I love XC2's battle system, but it does not translate to Smash very easily. I'm sure Sakurai could make it work, but it would take a lot of time and effort, which could also be another factor as to why Rex wasn't a top priority for the base roster or the first pass. He could take more time to relearn XC2's battle system and come up with a concept for him between now and 2021, but bringing in Elma with a moveset based on X's battle system makes a lot more sense to me. Especially if she makes an appearance in DE, and if X gets a port (or, selfishly on my part, a sequel) she's a lock.

 

[RebelMaren]

I hope Elma ends up being a 'Shill' pick. Sell me that port Nintendo, sell me that sequel.

 

[Calamitas]

I just hope that they essentially build X2 on the basis of X. That way, it should drastically lower development time.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I just hope that they essentially build X2 on the basis of X. That way, it should drastically lower development time.

ive mentioned it before but if XCXDE happens, XCX2 should allow you to transfer some data like your Cross data, Skells, etc. like literally continue right where you left off. The Xenosaga games had something like this even though they weren't all developed on the same basis (unfortunately)

 

[Wisehunter]

I don´t think I have much to say about it other than Byleth is kinda of a waste given other undereped Nintendo franchises would have been better, especially Xenoblade. Whoever is the main responsible for this, whatever it was Nintendo or Sakurai, could have done better even if the goal was promotion (Right now Xenoblade could really do with a extra push to get the even higher number Nintendo wants).

But that said, I am not exactly upset, at least, not more than smash ultimate managed to make me be before. Given that I did not buy the pass nor the game, ultimatelly, I don´t think I care that much anymore.

My hope for Elma is she being in Xenoblade 1 DE in a land of challenge-like fashion and the Xenoblade franchise doing well enough for X to finally get the green light to come to the switch, without the need of help from Smash bros exposure.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Well, we're back to late 2018 in terms of Character Pass speculation.
Good times ahead, boys

 

[ColtonS25]

Honestly if Elma isn’t going to be in Smash I’d be almost just as fine with a Xenoblade Warriors game. It might be a lot more mindless than Smash, but Linkle’s dual crossbows remind me of Elma’s dual guns. It would be fun, imo. Plus, give her swords and Overdrive/Skells and we’re in business. There’s a lot of potential with the Xenoblade X cast for cool movesets (especially Psycho Launchers and Photon Sabers). I’d absolutely love to see what they do.

 

[MrJudd]

I just hope that they essentially build X2 on the basis of X. That way, it should drastically lower development time.

IIRC, Xenoblade 2 was built using the X engine as the basis, and Torna's engine will probably be used as a basis for the next Xenoblade (which probably is X2).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

IIRC, Xenoblade 2 was built using the X engine as the basis, and Torna's engine will probably be used as a basis for the next Xenoblade (which probably is X2).

Was X built on the Xeno 1 engine then?

 

[Wisehunter]

Was X built on the Xeno 1 engine then?

I believe X used a new engine built for the Wii U. later when Nintendo asked monolith have a RPG soon on the Switch, they had to use the same engine as X even though it was built for the Wii U. But for Torna, they are using a new engine made for the switch, with Torna being the first test drive before they finalized such new engine. From what we saw of the thing they decided to do for 1, it seems it will be running of the new engine, so I think it is very likely that it will be running even better than Torna, and by extension, better than 2.

I think Monolith would not want to do a simple port of X but instead put it in a engine that runs great on the switch, like it is going to happen to 1. But since transfering X for the new engine would be expensive, they went with 1 first, and if they get enough sales, then they may have the budget to do the same for X. At least, that is how I am interpreting that old declaration from Takahashi saying "it is too expensive to bring X to the switch" now, as for me it seems to be the only way to make sense of it.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Hey everyone, thought I'd drop by to support Elma. I've never played a Xenoblade game, but it's woefully underrepresented in Smash, relative to its popularity. Elma in particular seems like she could be a really cool addition; I hope y'all can at least get some form of Xenoblade content down the line, if not Elma herself.

 

[RebelMaren]

My understanding with the X port is that when asked wether they'd be willing to do it they deflected by saying they'd rather do something more in depth than a simple port. Many jumped to the conclusion that that meant they simply wouldn't do it, but now we've seen they're doing exactly that with the original game it's not far fetched to imagine that what the really mean is they're gonna do X right, and it's not time to announce yet.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My understanding with the X port is that when asked wether they'd be willing to do it they deflected by saying they'd rather do something more in depth than a simple port. Many jumped to the conclusion that that meant they simply wouldn't do it, but now we've seen they're doing exactly that with the original game it's not far fetched to imagine that what the really mean is they're gonna do X right, and it's not time to announce yet.

Don't do that. DON'T GIVE ME HOPE!

 

[RebelMaren]

Don't do that. DON'T GIVE ME HOPE!

It's too late! You've been cursed with hope from the beginning!

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's too late! You've been cursed with hope from the beginning!

To which now they will be led to despair...

Puhuhuhuhu... AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sunny-Zee]

To which now they will be led to despair...

Puhuhuhuhu... AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, C chocolatejr9 , haven't you heard?
Victory goes...
TO THOSE WITH COURAGE!!!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey, let’s not get too off topic now.

if Xenoblade 1 DE DOES release May 29th, do you think Xenoblade X DE may be announced at E3?

 

[RebelMaren]

I'd think September(ish) Direct at the earliest, give people some time to enjoy XC before asking for them to get their wallets back out. To be honest I'm a little reluctant to speculate on Switch game announcements until these 'Switch Pro' rumours are explained. If theres a more powerful model on the horizon I could see Monoliths games benefiting from that and being used to showcase the power of the new model.

I'm just generally curious why we know so little of Nintendo's lineup this year.

 

[Pinguino21v]

My real guess is Rex, as well as Spring Man and Officer Howard, had mechanics that would be very difficult to translate to Smash. How would you control both Howard and their Legion? Rex would be a mix of Ice Climbers and Pokémon Trainer which is a lot to unpack, what would happen when the Blade gets KO’d? And Spring Man’s grab range would probably be too OP

I agree with that. DLC fighters, for three of them, brings new gameplay, and the other two brings a small gimmick (Banjo side special and Byleth bow).

I didn't want Byleth, and I'm meh toward them, but they have the benefit to break one more rule: the third party pass.

I'm conviced, for this second pass, we will have a mix of first and third party. However, on the first party part, as DLC and until now, we add 3 veterans coming back, a plant that was probably supposed to get into the base roster and only put in DLC because of time restraint, and 2 clear promotional picks. If the trend continues, first party DLC will be promotional picks too. But the recent games do not bring potential picks that I feasible easily and fairly in Smash (Howard, Spring-man) or that bring anything really new (Rex).

If they, instead, are going for "highly requested first party", I don't see a lot of them too. I don't see Bandana Waddle Dee and Dixie bringing much to the table. Waluigi is a mixed bag (maybe if they are giving him "cheating" machanics). I'm certainly biased, but if there are first party newcomers, I see first and foremost Elma, Isaac, Advance Wars rep, Rhythm Heaven rep and Paper Mario coming in, in all cases if tied with a new unannounced game. All these five contenders can bring a gimmick:

• Elma: weapon switching and skells
• Isaac: elemental attunement and/or djinn management
• Advance Wars: I don't really think of anything that can work to bring something "strategic" in Smash, but Fire Emblem cast got a counter to represent that. Sakurai would find something.
• Rhythm Heaven: rhythm can mean precised inputs
• Paper Mario: the "paper" thing is full of potential for gimmicks