Elma for Smash Ultimate: Strength comes from experience. That’s true on any planet.

[Flyboy]

I low-key love the idea of Addam even if he will never ever get in.

Honestly same. I've been playing Torna and I've fallen in love with him and with Team Lora. Like, Torna is helping me understand what people see in XC2 even if I'm not really a fan of the combat. The world is gorgeous and these characters are ones I can get behind.

 

[shocktarts17]

Honestly same. I've been playing Torna and I've fallen in love with him and with Team Lora. Like, Torna is helping me understand what people see in XC2 even if I'm not really a fan of the combat. The world is gorgeous and these characters are ones I can get behind.

Yeah I think Torna fixed all of the issues I had with XC2 and I really grew to like all of the characters in it.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I loved Torna. It made Mythra, a character to which I was indifferent in the main game, my favourite in the XC2 duology, and I also really enjoyed Addam to the point that I kanda hope that Rex only uses Pura so that Addam and Mythra can be their echo lol.

 

[Deleted member]

I low-key love the idea of Addam even if he will never ever get in.

His voice acting is godlike and I love his character design.

 

[shocktarts17]

His voice acting is godlike and I love his character design.

so its agreed, we convince the Rex fans to switch their allegiance to Addam as the XC2 rep. Only after Elma gets in of course

 

[Flyboy]

so its agreed, we convince the Rex fans to switch their allegiance to Addam as the XC2 rep. Only after Elma gets in of course

I'm also big on Lora and Jin of course, but Elma, Addam and Mythra, DLC pack 2 let's go. Rex supporters don't know what they're missing. Imagine the taunts!

 

[Deleted member]

I'm also big on Lora and Jin of course, but Eoma, Addam and Mythra, DLC pack 2 let's go. Rex supporters don't know what they're missing. Imagine the taunts!

"I really, really like you two!" > "I love you, and all you guys!"

 

[Calamitas]

Yeah, not gonna lie, I honestly wouldn't mind Mythra's inclusion if it was Addam who's her Driver. It also helps that in terms of gameplay, the two have the more interesting concept in comparison to Rex. And mind you, I'm probably the biggest opponent of main game XBC2 + Rex/Pyra that you can find on this board. But like the others here said, Torna fixed pretty much all the issues I had with the main game, so seeing it rep'd is something I could easily live with.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Torna in general fixed alot of characters for me like Jin for example and thats why I hope X gets a sequal or the same treatment to fill up the plotholes in a remake.

My gripe with X was the story construction, but that gripe would fade away if I knew a sequal was in development, because then the story construction makes sense to minus the spacing of some Ganglion villains I guess( for example I would have done Chapter 8 way sooner)

 

[ColtonS25]

Torna in general fixed alot of characters for me like Jin for example and thats why I hope X gets a sequal or the same treatment to fill up the plotholes in a remake.

My gripe with X was the story construction, but that gripe would fade away if I knew a sequal was in development, because then the story construction makes sense to minus the spacing of some Ganglion villains I guess( for example I would have done Chapter 8 way sooner)

They should have never included Goetia, and made Daghan and Rhyzz primary antagonists. Better yet, give Ga Jiarg and Ga Buidhe more story importance. Let them be party members, dang it!

I really loved the diversity of alien races, but they all seemed relegated to sidequests. Having Orpheon, Ma-non, Definian, Nopon, and Wrothian party members would've made the story better, in my opinion.

 

[Calamitas]

Torna in general fixed alot of characters for me like Jin for example and thats why I hope X gets a sequal or the same treatment to fill up the plotholes in a remake.

My gripe with X was the story construction, but that gripe would fade away if I knew a sequal was in development, because then the story construction makes sense to minus the spacing of some Ganglion villains I guess( for example I would have done Chapter 8 way sooner)

. . .What plot holes are you even talking about? I don't remember any major plot holes in the plot of X.

 

[aarchak]

. . .What plot holes are you even talking about? I don't remember any major plot holes in the plot of X.

It's less plotholes and unexplained stuff for the sequel.

 

[Pallex]

Well Rex is not popular as a character, while Pyra and Mythra are at this point one of the most popular Xenoblade characters there are in Japan. Don't forget that those 2 got an official statue announced from Goodsmile, when XB2 just released, while Xenoblade merchandise was non existant before 2 released (Mythra's statue also sold out instantly I hear to).

The only reason the majority of people support Rex, is that he is the main character, but i'm confident the majority supports him to get Pyra/Mythra repped, but not for Rex himself.

If we are not going to count other merchandise like the Shulk Amiibo then what happened to the Formula model kit? Did they cancel it?

 

[Izayoi]

If we are not going to count other merchandise like the Shulk Amiibo then what happened to the Formula model kit? Did they cancel it?

Nah, they didn't cancel the model kit.

Although, that might be our hint, who knows.Elma for a March direct.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

. . .What plot holes are you even talking about? I don't remember any major plot holes in the plot of X.

What I mean more I guess is the game ends on a gainax ending and it has alot of unanswered questions. (Chapter 12 even creates more questions.)

 

[Calamitas]

So I literally just beat World of Light 100%, with every Spirit Battle there taken care of. And correct me if I'm wrong, but was there really not a single one of the X Spirits actually there on the map? Because out of the three I have so far - Elma, Lin and Lao - I know that I got all of them through either achievements or the Spirit Board. It's really starting to feel like the X content in Ultimate is a complete last-minute addition either because they want to ignore the game as much as possible, or as to not make the DLC choice too obvious. There's definitely something going on here.

What I mean more I guess is the game ends on a gainax ending and it has alot of unanswered questions. (Chapter 12 even creates more questions.)

Then call it that, and not a plot hole. Sorry, I don't want to come off as rude here, but it does bother me quite a bit when people throw around these terms incorrectly.

 

[Deleted member]

I
was thinking about Elma's moveset and I came up with this for her down special.

It would be Ghost Factory, and work as a counter, but instead of being a traditional counter it would cause a very small amount of dmg an knockback and make it so the next attack that would land on her after the counter would completely whiff.

Would this be balanced?

 

[shocktarts17]

I
was thinking about Elma's moveset and I came up with this for her down special.

It would be Ghost Factory, and work as a counter, but instead of being a traditional counter it would cause a very small amount of dmg an knockback and make it so the next attack that would land on her after the counter would completely whiff.

Would this be balanced?

Maybe if that effect only lasted for a little bit? I mean if you think about what you're creating is a guaranteed perfect shield with no end lag, that by itself would be pretty busted but if you could just run down the clock without attacking or use it up early with a weak ranged attack it might balance that out.

 

[GolisoPower]

I
was thinking about Elma's moveset and I came up with this for her down special.

It would be Ghost Factory, and work as a counter, but instead of being a traditional counter it would cause a very small amount of dmg an knockback and make it so the next attack that would land on her after the counter would completely whiff.

Would this be balanced?

That sounds pretty cool. It’s sort of like an inverted version of Incineroar’s Revenge in a way. Counter-induced buffs are something unique that I don’t think we’ve seen before in Smash, and the idea of invincibility frames from countering an attack sounds even more unique. I like it.

EDIT: As for balance, what if during the i-frames from Ghost Factory halves Elma’s movement speed? It can more than make up for the invincibility if it’s successful.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe if that effect only lasted for a little bit? I mean if you think about what you're creating is a guaranteed perfect shield with no end lag, that by itself would be pretty busted but if you could just run down the clock without attacking or use it up early with a weak ranged attack it might balance that out.

True, maybe it should only last maybe like 5 seconds or so

 

[shocktarts17]

True, maybe it should only last maybe like 5 seconds or so

yeah I'm sure there are other ways to balance it (like punishing a missed counter) but I think avoiding a Bayo situation with a broken counter on hit would be the best way to go.

 

[Izayoi]

Maybe she also gains a slight speed boost during the duration so she can follow up after the suggested initial knockback and chase DI?

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe she also gains a slight speed boost during the duration so she can follow up after the suggested initial knockback and chase DI?

yeah, but just increased speed wouldn't really fit Ghost Factory would it? IIRC (haven't played X or any other Wii U games since it broke a year ago so I might be wrong) Ghost Factory just gives you a decoy effect right?

 

[Izayoi]

yeah, but just increased speed wouldn't really fit Ghost Factory would it? IIRC (haven't played X or any other Wii U games since it broke a year ago so I might be wrong) Ghost Factory just gives you a decoy effect right?

Then maybe invincibility armor that lasts 5 seconds or can only take a few hits so it is guaranteed pressure confirm?

 

[Deleted member]

Then maybe invincibility armor that lasts 5 seconds or can only take a few hits so it is guaranteed pressure confirm?

I'm thinking invincibility lasting 5 seconds and lasting one hit would be the best option tbh

 

[Izayoi]

I'm thinking invincibility lasting 5 seconds and lasting one hit would be the best option tbh

Although that kinda gives advantage to multihit aerials so she'd need to either be fast or have a really good aerial game to make it a confirm. Or the hitstun on the initial hit is long enough for any sort of follow-up....

I'm thinking too hard on this LOL

 

[Deleted member]

Although that kinda gives advantage to multihit aerials so she'd need to either be fast or have a really good aerial game to make it a confirm.

I was thinking she could have really strong short-hop game but fall pretty fast a la Fox or Speed Art Shulk

 

[Phoebe3315]

People would need to test something like this out a lot to figure out a good balance. If the effect were to go away after 5 seconds, it only lets you avoid a single hit, and to get the effect you need to succeed a counter, that is way too weak of a move in my opinion. Incineroar's Revenge lasts far longer (anyone know exactly how long?), and the attack power it gives you scales with the power of the attack you counter. If they make Ghost Factory a similar counter-activated move, it has to have some sort of scaling. I think the best way to do this would be to "store" the damage a countered attack would've done and instead of automatically dealing more damage back, you phase through attacks until you've avoided the stored damage (multiplied by some number 0.5-1.5 for balancing).

Then again, that wouldn't make much sense if it's not 1v1. :/ It would be broken in 2v2 with team attack... Who knows, maybe it'll just let you avoid 1 single hit but have a very long startup instead of being a "counter" move.

 

[Nonno Umby]

So I literally just beat World of Light 100%, with every Spirit Battle there taken care of. And correct me if I'm wrong, but was there really not a single one of the X Spirits actually there on the map? Because out of the three I have so far - Elma, Lin and Lao - I know that I got all of them through either achievements or the Spirit Board. It's really starting to feel like the X content in Ultimate is a complete last-minute addition either because they want to ignore the game as much as possible, or as to not make the DLC choice too obvious. There's definitely something going on here.

That's interesting, to say the least since I just fought the Octo Expansion Octolings in WoL. I don't know about you but
-Elma being a last minute addition to XC2 DLC as playable, with dialogues leaving things up in the air.
-XCX Spirits being absent from WoL when very minor characters were present.
-Lack of XCX music.
-The Formula Skell Figure being re-printed again for the first time since its initial release.

There is definitely something going on, but we will have to see if it is Elma in Smash or simply a Xenoblade X port + sequel.

Speaking of the sequel...what if Rex was excluded from potential DLC because X2 is already in the works and they decided to use Elma in order to promote the next Xenoblade game?

 

[DNeon]

Ok, so I've been gone a while. Give me the rundown people:

• Is Elma a spirit?
• What is the opinion on the status of spirits, given that "Fighter Spirit" seems to be a different thing?
• Is XCX content still 100% absent?
• Does Nintendo's direction with DLC (as Reggie anounced after Joker) something that fits with Elma?

Also I ended up giving up on XC2 and traded it in to help by Ultimate since I was low on cash. I just wasn't clicking with the gameplay, wasn't enthralled by the world I was shown and by GOD was I getting sick of the characters already so early on into the game. I really wanted to try to push through it especially since Torna had so much praise as a separate game but I couldn't justify spending 2 games worth of money just for Torna.

 

[Calamitas]

Ok, so I've been gone a while. Give me the rundown people:

• Is Elma a spirit?
• What is the opinion on the status of spirits, given that "Fighter Spirit" seems to be a different thing?
• Is XCX content still 100% absent?
• Does Nintendo's direction with DLC (as Reggie anounced after Joker) something that fits with Elma?

Also I ended up giving up on XC2 and traded it in to help by Ultimate since I was low on cash. I just wasn't clicking with the gameplay, wasn't enthralled by the world I was shown and by GOD was I getting sick of the characters already so early on into the game. I really wanted to try to push through it especially since Torna had so much praise as a separate game but I couldn't justify spending 2 games worth of money just for Torna.

Well then, in order:

• Elma is a three-star Spirit, along with Lin, Lao, Tatsu and the Formula Skell. However, none of them appear in World of Light, and Elma is an achievement reward you get for unlocking fifty characters in WoL.
• There's still no common consensus on whether or not Spirits deconfirm characters. However, it seems unlikely to me that they do, since all it would take to differentiate them is to add something to distinguish the two in the Spirits name, just like how there's "Zelda (Breath of the Wild)" or "Link (The Legend of Zelda)". It als helps that Elma has multiple pieces of artwork for X alone.
• Aside from the five Spirits, there's no music, no Mii costumes, and, most notably, X isn't even in Ultimate's internal listing of games it draws content from.
• Nothing new on Nintendo's direction, either. People misinterpreted what Reggie said about DLC to meaning that all DLC characters would be from entirely new series, but he only said the character would be new to Smash, and nothing about their home series.

And believe me, you dodged a bullet with XBC2 there. If you couldn't stand the characters (I'm guessing the main offenders were Rex, Pyra and Tora?) early on, they wouldn't get much better later on.

Speaking of the sequel...what if Rex was excluded from potential DLC because X2 is already in the works and they decided to use Elma in order to promote the next Xenoblade game?

I'd hope so. Especially if that means that I never have to see Rex in anything ever again.

 

[shocktarts17]

There's still no common consensus on whether or not Spirits deconfirm characters. However, it seems unlikely to me that they do, since all it would take to differentiate them is to add something to distinguish the two in the Spirits name, just like how there's "Zelda (Breath of the Wild)" or "Link (The Legend of Zelda)". It als helps that Elma has multiple pieces of artwork for X alone.

Just to add the opposite point of view to this conversation, I believe spirits do deconfirm because of how they talked about spirits being "a way to get characters in who didn't make it otherwise." I believe they had MOST of the DLC picked early on and as such didn't feel the need to make spirits for those characters, this is confirmed by Piranha Plant not having a spirit.

I hope I'm wrong as Elma, Ravio, and BWD are all spirits and my 3 most wanteds but until I get some evidence otherwise I'll continue to count them as deconfirmed.

EDIT: Also XC2 is not nearly as bad as you say lol

 

[Camc10]

Just to add the opposite point of view to this conversation, I believe spirits do deconfirm because of how they talked about spirits being "a way to get characters in who didn't make it otherwise." I believe they had MOST of the DLC picked early on and as such didn't feel the need to make spirits for those characters, this is confirmed by Piranha Plant not having a spirit.

I hope I'm wrong as Elma, Ravio, and BWD are all spirits and my 3 most wanteds but until I get some evidence otherwise I'll continue to count them as deconfirmed.

EDIT: Also XC2 is not nearly as bad as you say lol

Thing is, both Cross and real Elma are missing as Spirits.

 

[Deleted member]

Just to add the opposite point of view to this conversation, I believe spirits do deconfirm because of how they talked about spirits being "a way to get characters in who didn't make it otherwise." I believe they had MOST of the DLC picked early on and as such didn't feel the need to make spirits for those characters, this is confirmed by Piranha Plant not having a spirit.

I hope I'm wrong as Elma, Ravio, and BWD are all spirits and my 3 most wanteds but until I get some evidence otherwise I'll continue to count them as deconfirmed.

EDIT: Also XC2 is not nearly as bad as you say lol

Honestly I've been slowly losing hope in Elma since PP had no Spirit. I still don't think Spirits deconfirm, but I'm not really expecting Elma, or anyone else from my most wanteds on that note. I'll still hope for the best, but I'm expecting the worst.

 

[PSIGuy]

The Formula is obtained through summoning; took me all day to find that out. Haven't had any luck having Elma or Formula show up on the Spirit Board either.

 

[RawstyleEevee]

Spoiler: X endgame spoilers + enhanceable spirits

Seeing how all the enhanceable spirits are walking spoilers even for extremely niché games, I feel X got once again shafted, because Elma deserved atleast this treatment

Also now that we know Sakurai started this games roster right after Corrin and Bayonetta released in 4, its clear to me he or Monolith skipped X at this point and it doesn't help that they went to so much lenght to include atleast XB2 content(yes they have WoL battles)

Sakurai had intel on the Switch since the beginning and he had to talk to Monolith to get the rights of Shulk back, so he could easily have chosen Elma there or take a gamble on Rex & Pyra, but nope only Incineroar had the priviledge of a reserved slot.

At this point I feel Monolith has to come clean what the whole situation with X is, because fans deserve closure

 

[shocktarts17]

Thing is, both Cross and real Elma are missing as Spirits.

Ehh I'd say Cross has next to no shot considering not only are they an avatar character (obviously not an issue by itself considering Robin and Corrin but something Sakurai has said before he wasn't a huge fan of using) but they are one without a canon voice or combat style from a game that already had several marks against it (relevancy and popularity.)

 

[Deleted member]

Ehh I'd say Cross has next to no shot considering not only are they an avatar character (obviously not an issue by itself considering Robin and Corrin but something Sakurai has said before he wasn't a huge fan of using) but they are one without a canon voice or combat style from a game that already had several marks against it (relevancy and popularity.)

Corrin was super important to FE Fates afaik, and wasn't Robin about as equal in story relevance as Chrom or Lucina in FE Awakening? Really the only "true" avatar character is Villager who comes from a series without any really major established characters who would ALSO rep the entire series as a whole, so it was a better idea just to pick a faceless avatar for that. A character like Cross has no precedent to be in Smash.

 

[DNeon]

Thanks guys, I think I'll settle on heavily pessimistic with a side of reserved anger at the total bypassing of X. I really can't believe that they'd ignore it but I just don't think things look good for Elma (especially compared to how they looked pre-Spirits mode reveal).

 

[shocktarts17]

Corrin was super important to FE Fates afaik, and wasn't Robin about as equal in story relevance as Chrom or Lucina in FE Awakening? Really the only "true" avatar character is Villager who comes from a series without any really major established characters who would ALSO rep the entire series as a whole, so it was a better idea just to pick a faceless avatar for that. A character like Cross has no precedent to be in Smash.

Yes both Corrin and Robin were central characters in the story with defined personalities and agency, the only things undefined for them was appearance and gender (you could argue class and love interest but that could be said for every character in Fire Emblem and wasn't because of being an avatar.)

Conversely Cross (and I'll admit I haven't yet finished X so this may change later) spends most of the game being dragged around as part of Elma's team making only minor decisions and comments to the story. They have no defined class (that I'm aware of) or appearance (though there is a "default" version same as Robin and Corrin.)

I can't speak for Villager as much but you could make the argument that there was no other suitable AC rep leaving them as the only option (pre Isabelle)