Reading through these posts, it's pretty clear most people posting comments are uniformed on what is and isn't "top player privilege."
I'm going through all of these comments to hopefully fill in any missing information discussed in the comment section of this blog in relations to the discussion about the DQ'ing situation at Press Start.
In it, I will repeat the same facts over and over again to shed light on the situation.
To people getting quoted, Control+F and type your name to find where I quoted you.
Lastly, I must say after the crap MacD had to deal with when Mew2King claimed he was "90% sure" MacD pulled the plug during Melee Grand Finals Game 3 at MVG Sandstorm, I think MacD deserves a lot better than this.
I fully agree with this. Top players shouldn't be exempted from the rules. All participants should be treated equally.
Top players weren't above the rules, and they were punished in the same ways as everyone else. MacD punished players equally by always sending players straight to loser's from winner's if they are late, so long as they don't hold up loser's bracket (which none of the 3 DQ'd players did).
I agree. We are all equal, and every top player began its journey as a average player.
And everyone is punished by MacD, the TO of Press Start, equally. So there's no problem here related to treating one player better than another.
Equality between everyone is one of the top priorities in the world! Better players should not have privileges over average or bad players. Every person in the world is important, no matter if they are bad at a game or NOT!
Nobody got any special privileges that anyone else got in regards to DQ's at Press Start. Everyone was treated fairly in regards to DQ'ing.
All players should be equal regardless of where they stand in the community.
And they were treated equally at Press Start.
Don't get me wrong, they are awesome players, but if they are late, they should be fully disqualified just like everyone else who's late to the tournament.
MacD never fully disqualifies people on the first DQ from winner's bracket. He only does that when they hold up losers' bracket, which neither Hax, Mango, or S2J did.
Treat players equally. Enough said. Why is this so hard to accomplish?
Treating players equally regardless of skill level was accomplished. All 3 players DQ'd for Top 32 got equal treatment to one another. MacD always DQ's players straight to loser's bracket if they're late. You are lying to other people by implying he has ever done otherwise.
There was no top player privilege.
Basically, top player player privilege is a necessary evil. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative of completely DQing the players.
There was no top player privilege, and DQ'ing Hax, Mango, and S2J straight out of the tournament would have been top player punishment on MacD's part. He always sends players straight to loser's from winners, and it takes another DQ to warrant their removal, which none of them did anything to warrant another DQ. You are simply painting a narrative that is not the reality of the situation at Press Start. At other tournaments that may be true, but not in this example.
Would the same top players constantly be late as a result of these lax punishments, then I would encourage a rule to be implemented regarding this. But if it is done cautiously as a case by case method, then I am all for it.
DQ'd players in winner's always get sent straight to loser's by MacD (sans exceptions where players announce they can't make it, ask to be totally DQ'd, or they get DQ'd again for holding up loser's bracket). There was no otherwise different punishment from MacD's part.
As for harder punishments, you should apply them to all players if you have them and not just top players. Punishing top players is just as unfair as giving them special privileges in regards to showing up on time. But just be warned: be careful what you wish for. If you DQ a lot of people entirely from a tournament from being late, they might not show up to your tournaments again.
EDIT: To be more on topic, all players should be treated equally, I don't care who you are
MacD always DQ's people from winner's to loser's bracket, so everyone is treated equally.
I would think it's better for viewers and competitors alike that players should be given a second chance with a penalty. Like everyone above me is saying, I think this would have to apply evenly across the board.
Everyone is given the same equal second chance. MacD always DQ's people in winner's holding up the bracket to loser's.
MacD could, but he's never done it before in tournament. On many levels it would be unfair to these players if he DQ'd fully the first time in this tournament for Day 2 after only DQ'ing people to loser's or from specific matches in Day 1.
then if they are late for the loser's match when called, DQ them again?
They weren't late for their Loser's Bracket matches, so that wasn't an issue. If they were, MacD would have DQ'd them again, this time from the entire tournament.
How long after Mango, S2J, and Hax$ were DQ'd from winnner's were their loser's bracket matches supposed to start?
Neither Mango, S2J, or Hax$ were late enough to hold up the Loser's Bracket. They were on time or early for those matches.
The community really needs less people like you.
Telling someone flat out this for their opinion that doesn't insult people has no place in this community or any community. The community really needs less statements like this.
He's not wrong, although his methods of thinking are a bit odd. DQ'ing Hax, Mango, and S2J into Loser's would be consistent with how MacD DQ's; he's never DQ'd anyone out of a tournament from Winner's without special exceptions or someone being late to Loser's. None of those 3 players were late to their Loser's Bracket matches.
We don't need people who think top players should be given privileges that other players don't simply because people recognize them more so than others. Saying that these players are skilled so therefore are entitled to not be DQ'd is the kind of brand of stupidity you would see from a YT commenter.
He didn't say that, he just said they shouldn't be DQ'd from the entire tournament. He said they should be DQ'd straight to loser's, which is consistent with how MacD always TO's.
It's hard to accomplish because of fear and/or greed. Not having top players in your bracket means fewer viewers, which means fewer subs/less publicity, which ultimately means less money (greed) and/or less popularity/fame (fear).
...This is just Fox News level paranoia right here and completely out of touch with the reality of this situation. I'm not even going to touch this one further, especially since Hax, Mango, and S2J were punished for being late while in Winner's Bracket the same way everyone else was.
You can't throw a match to end up in losers. That's collusion and against all conduct. If dq to losers was allowed, then you can effectively manipulate the bracket by just not showing up, then going through losers
If you thought those 3 players going to Loser's Bracket was collusion, you're nuts. Hax had to face Mango in Loser's Bracket. As for Mango, if he were in Winner's Bracket, he'd play what? 1 or 2 less sets? That's easier, especially since M2K, Leffen, and HBox all would have been sent to the Loser's Bracket before he would have ever had to face them.
You're severely missing the point. Not all players are equal when it comes to skill in a game, but that's not what this article is bringing light to. Why should Mang0 be given special privileges just because he's Mang0?
Mango was given zero special privileges, and was punished the same way everyone else is punished for being late in Winner's Bracket by MacD, and that is being sent to Loser's Bracket. This includes being punished the same way Hax and S2J were, who were also late.
Part of my brain tells me that Privilege is the wrong word but that's probably because Tumblr robbed it of all meaning.
Sucks though.
There was ZERO top player privilege here, unless MacD also granting this sort of DQ policy privilege to everyone else is "top player privilege."
Tbh I think that all players should have a chance if they are late. 10 Minutes = match loss so after 20 minutes they lose the set. However with how late mang0 was it was unfair to have them in the bracket. I believe the same thing happened to ZeRo and he got an exception as well.
Mango (as well as Hax and S2J, all of whom were DQ'd from Winner's Bracket Round 1 to Loser's Bracket) did not hold up Loser's Bracket, so they weren't DQ'd from Loser's. There was no privilege shown there, and it was consistent with the way MacD always DQ.
Zero at the tournament you are referencing from back in January was told several times by the TO's to be ready for a match by several TO staff people (including head TO Sky Williams), and got DQ'd form the tournament. Zero was too into his friendlies to pay proper attention (which is not a good excuse at all and he owned up to it). The venue owner overruled Sky's DQ of him from the entire tournament (how that power dynamic happened I don't know, but I do know no SoCal Smash tournament will happen at that venue ever again), and Zero was sent to Loser's Bracket. Overall Zero's case was more of an issue that happened over and over and over and him not paying proper attention or giving proper acknowledgement as to what he asked for.
Nothing good ever comes from letting specific people bend the rules.
The players that were late all got DQ'd into loser's bracket. Everyone who was DQ'd got the same treatment for not showing up on time for their Winner's Bracket matches.
Either you let everybody show up 45 minutes late or nobody. Period.
And that's exactly what happened. No player was shown favoritism by this. Additionally loser's bracket wasn't held up at all. Whether a player is DQ'd to loser's bracket or from the tournament is up to the TO's discretion, and MacD has always just DQ'd to loser's. So, there was
ZERO favoritism shown, and to imply there was is to create a false narrative that slanders MacD's name.
I don't doubt there must have been a good reason for showing up late, but reasons should not be excuses.
They weren't excused and Hax, Mango, and S2J were all sent to Loser's Bracket accordingly to how MacD generally handles things.
If the policy is "You're late, you're DQed" then if you're late, you're DQed.
And that's what happened ("You're late, you're DQed"). Hax, Mango, and S2J were late and DQ'd straight to losers, like what MacD does to
EVERYONE that shows up past a few minutes late.
I don't care whether it's the first time you're playing or if you're the second coming of some kind of Smash messiah, all should abide by the same rules in a tournament
And neither does MacD, so long as some extraordinary circumstance didn't happen. So nobody faced any sort of preferential treatment whatsoever in this situation.
M2K, Mango, etc won't be around forever and by doing this we put off the players who could very well one day become the next best. we need to treat one another equally. Its basic morals.
Hax, Mango, and S2J, the 3 players in question, were DQ'd to Loser's Bracket from Winner's Bracket the same way MacD does to everyone else. None of those three held up Loser's Bracket either. MacD showed them no preferential treatment whatsoever, and showed
ZERO top player treatment.
Why don't they make it so all players get auto sent to losers instead of instant DQ? Though as a TO myself it feels disrespectful when players are anywhere more then 5 minutes late.
Players holding up Winner's Bracket were auto-DQ'd to Loser's Bracket at any MacD hosted tournaments, including in this example at Press Start for Hax, Mango, and S2J. And yeah MacD felt disrespected for them being late, and I can't necessarily blame him. Having said that, he stayed consistent with what he always does with his DQ policy, which was probably the right call.
I think TOs only do this to ensure viewcounts. Thinks about it, if Hax, S2J and Mang0 were all not present at all, the tournament would have been a lot less interesting, I'm sure we can all agree there. That being said, I'm not defending their choice at all, just saying that the smash BRs have made plenty of questionable choices to ensure views rather than take a risk(See 2-stock smash 4)
The TO, MacD, DQ's people in winner's to loser's every time they are holding up the winner's bracket. If they were late to their loser's bracket sets (which they weren't), they would have been DQ'd out of Loser's Bracket as well.
LiteralGrill like many people do. That's all fine and dandy. What isn't fine and dandy is saying this is "top player privilege." Such a statement is ludicrous and deceiving to the readers here, most of whom know next to nothing as to how tournaments are run. @
