I don't have a bone to pick with BF. I actually love BF. You on the other hand are so spoiled that you demand Sakurai add something just for you. Yet when I show you that everyone else also wants things to be added and that no one is truly satisfied (and that satisfying everyone is basically imposible), you literally say and I quote: "they should suffice with what they have".
You truly believe that you are above the rest of the 99% of the community just because you are in line with SB's preferences while the other 99% isn't. Its outstanding.
Even if you try and backtrack now because you realize how incredibly selfish it sounds to understand that your own desires should be met but everyone else should suffice with whatever they are given, you have already generalized a much larger community than the competitive community and belittled their opinions only because they don't align with your own. (or the opinions you ignorantly generalized them to have, almost immediately you hypocritically whine about how your community is "generalized" because of ignorance)
No, we didn't. Numbers show that people who prefer to play 1v1, stocks, no items play on FD. Those numbers are clear as day when you play online mode. There is no generalization, its actual data.
You generalize the community by believing that Smashboards is equal to the whole community. News flash, Smashboards, Tournament scene, gamespot and all of those sites combined don't make up even 1/10th of the community, they can't even measure up to the number of people who play online.
You keep talking about my argument yet every post you tend to water down your own argument because you are realizing your own flaws.
I am not debating whether adding BF or not is a good addition. I am debating whether doing FD only was a good choice there is a big difference. If 90% of the community is extremely happy with FD only and 9% of the community is extremely happy with "For Fun" and the remaining 1% is happy, but not as happy then what is the need of adding tons of extra hours of work just to appeal to that small happiness missing from 1% of the community? Specially when doing so might anger a large part of the 90% community. You would effectively be bargaining the happiness of an unknown amount of people inside a very large group in order to appease a small amount of people inside an extremely small community.
It's not the fact whether or not BF would be good or not, its the fact that the decision was made on research and LOGICAL analysis, whereas you claimed it to be purposely done to "shun us"
If you read the quotes you would notice that just like SB all those communities are also "disgusted" at having only FD and I am in no way basing my arguments in small niche communities. I am basing my arguments in that from the very first 30 or so posts there are at least 10-15 people claiming that they need to play 5-10 games before they can play on ANY stage that isn't FD. This means FD has a tremendously ridiculous popularity and that if given the choice to every single player in the world more than 90% would choose to play only FD. Going by this analysis it would be completely OK to make 2 modes, one which encompasses the 5-9% community of items/random stages and another that encompasses the 90%+ players who ALREADY play by "For Glory" rules online in Brawl anyways. There is no offense to any group or shunning of any group, it's just doing what's completely logical.
No actually my argument is exactly the opposite from saying you follow SB blindly. I am claiming that every person has his own preferences and styles. And that while your preferences and style are the same as SB (and mine), SB is a very small community. While a much larger group (around 90 times larger) has a much different belief than you do. Why are your preferences/beliefs better than theirs? Because SB agrees with you? Its the only argument you are making. "That is how the competitive scene is". You are literally claiming that 1% of the community's opinion is worth more than the 90% of the community who think differently. "For Glory" doesn't say: "Made for the Smash players who visit sites like SB or Gamefaqs or W/E". It's made for all online players and unfortunately a vast majority of those players like playing FD-only and your opinion is not worth more than theirs just because you are part of the "most hardcore" scene. (Their opinions are not worth more than your opinion either, no community is more important than any other community but said community has a much greater number of players which does make the decision of appealing to them smarter than the decision of appealing to us).
As I said your arguments get more and more in line with mine. By now you already realized how wrong you were but you cannot give up because of your internet "ego".
I'll make it easy for you:
You did claim Sakurai's decision were wrong. You did say your way of doing things was better. And you also claimed reasons for this decision which were not true (Which shows you had a lack of understanding of the actual real reasons). But now that you realize you have no argument to back your claims, while on the other hand I do, you have backtracked and you have gone and actually agreed with me.
I can quote you on all those from before. But I have no need as you have now agreed with the very premise of my very first argument which you disagreed with before, even though you are trying to mask it:
"It's a decent decision, but it can improved upon is the point/case I'm making"
Thanks, this is what I have been saying since the very beginning. Now that you have admitted that it was a decent decision you can now stop whining, stop feeling "angry and offended" because you realize it was a decent decision backed by logic. (Instead of claiming it was done to purposely shun us or that Sakurai made a "wrong" decision or that Sakurai is generalizing the community when he is doing exactly the opposite and appealing to the largest group)
I invite you to reread my posts (you can check edit stamps and notice I have not edited them since this post) and understand that I too believe the mode could be improved on (as I said several times), I never said it couldn't be. From the very beginning I agreed that adding BF would make it "better" for my own style of play, the "SB/tournament" style of play. Yet from the beginning I explained to you that my (our) style is not the only style out there and that "better" is subjective to a person's preference and trying to judge whether Sakurai's decision was wrong or right by your own definition of what is "better" for
the style of play YOU prefer is egocentrical. Instead it should be analyzed from an objective point of view. Which seems to be what you are doing (or trying to do) now.
Quite frankly there is always going to be someone who thinks the game could be better by adding something/deleting something and there is always going to be someone who thinks adding/deleting that same thing will make the game worse. This will always happen (Its called preference). This is why you should try to add/delete things that will make the most amount of players happy. This is why from the beginning I've told you, SB makes up around 1% of the Smash community, "better" for Sakurai will always be the 99% wants (in this case what the 90% FD-only players want) and it isn't because he wants to offend us or shun us, he is just doing what will make the most players happy.
"I don't have a bone to pick with BF. I actually love BF. You on the other hand are so spoiled that you demand Sakurai add something just for you. Yet when I show you that everyone else also wants things to be added and that no one is truly satisfied (and that satisfying everyone is basically imposible), you literally say and I quote: "they should suffice with what they have"."
I am so spoiled for wanting to add the 3rd most picked stage in the game from my experience. Adding BF is too much of a trouble poor Mr Sakurai isn't it? Trying to make the mode more immerseful of the numerous stages he's added in is such a pain for him isn't? Poor Sakurai.
"they should suffice with what they have"
Hmm. I also said they can fight if they want to as no one is stopping them, but know that I'm not supporting them. Seems like your ad hominems, cherry picking skills, and you red herrings missed that. Please be more fallacious, I'm dying to hear the rest of your argument.
"You truly believe that you are above the rest of the 99% of the community just because you are in line with SB's preferences while the other 99% isn't. Its outstanding."
I so totally believe SB is the one and only way to go for WIFI since I'm such a SB bobblehead unable to form my opinions, right? Thanks for pointing that out. The amount of cherry picking and red herrings drawn from only a couple of sentences for your argument proves that you're not really arguing to not have BF, but why FD was chosen. You've almost completely made a true strawman. More straw?
"Even if you try and backtrack now because you realize how incredibly selfish it sounds to understand that your own desires should be met but everyone else should suffice with whatever they are given, you have already generalized a much larger community than the competitive community and belittled their opinions only because they don't align with your own. (or the opinions you ignorantly generalized them to have, almost immediately you hypocritically whine about how your community is "generalized" because of ignorance)"
Backtracked? NO. Generalized? I cannot disagree as since I really don't understand casual warfare since the early days of Melee, my prejudice did exist. I did say should suffice, while also knowing there could be separate, diverse communities and if they wanted to get something changed, they should keep presenting their argument anywhere as well. Me selfish? Yes, quite obviously. First, you claim I'm a bobblehead of this website and the competitive community, then you single me out as if I'm not part of the very community you charged me with. I guess it's not possible to use my experience on WIFI and my experience in general to weigh in on this as BF is still one of the most picked stages. To add FD since it's so common then to not put in BF is mind boggling. Ad hominems, straw and red herrings for everyone!
"You keep talking about my argument yet every post you tend to water down your own argument because you are realizing your own flaws"
NO. I "watering" down for redundancy to be avoided and so my personal opinions are completed muted while yours is still loud and clear. Reason I point to your argument is because I've never seen such an extended strawman filled with this many red herrings. By the end of this, there shall never be enough horses and cows for this much straw and don't even get me started with how much red herrings will needed to be consumed.
"I am not debating whether adding BF or not is a good addition. I am debating whether doing FD only was a good choice there is a big difference. If 90% of the community is extremely happy with FD only and 9% of the community is extremely happy with "For Fun" and the remaining 1% is happy, but not as happy then what is the need of adding tons of extra hours of work just to appeal to that small happiness missing from 1% of the community? Specially when doing so might anger a large part of the 90% community. You would effectively be bargaining the happiness of an unknown amount of people inside a very large group in order to appease a small amount of people inside an extremely small community."
Poor Sakurai. It's almost as if I shouldn't be so cross about his decision to leave out the 3rd most used stage in casual online play. I mean, it's almost like I'm expecting this from his job. Cruel me. FD only is a decent (lazy) method while adding BF makes it a better (not the best, but hey) decision.
"It's not the fact whether or not BF would be good or not, its the fact that the decision was made on research and LOGICAL analysis, whereas you claimed it to be purposely done to "shun us""
Yes, as we know Sakurai is a studious study of his own game which I'm so sure he played online to the extent others did because y'know he has that time available. I mean Hyrule was chosen the most. FD and BF were chosen almost as many times (combined) as Hyrule, and yet it was not included. He sure did his research. On logics, my guess they were just trying to save time even though adding BF is just too much of a strain for company like Sora and Namco Bandai to collectively handle. Poor Sakurai.
"If you read the quotes you would notice that just like SB all those communities are also "disgusted" at having only FD and I am in no way basing my arguments in small niche communities. I am basing my arguments in that from the very first 30 or so posts there are at least 10-15 people claiming that they need to play 5-10 games before they can play on ANY stage that isn't FD. This means FD has a tremendously ridiculous popularity and that if given the choice to every single player in the world more than 90% would choose to play only FD. Going by this analysis it would be completely OK to make 2 modes, one which encompasses the 5-9% community of items/random stages and another that encompasses the 90%+ players who ALREADY play by "For Glory" rules online in Brawl anyways. There is no offense to any group or shunning of any group, it's just doing what's completely logical."
"I am in no way basing my arguments in small niche communities" followed up with "I am basing my arguments in that from the very first 30 or so posts there are at least 10-15 people" from those same niche communities I just discredited.
"No actually my argument is exactly the opposite from saying you follow SB blindly. I am claiming that every person has his own preferences and styles. And that while your preferences and style are the same as SB (and mine), SB is a very small community. While a much larger group (around 90 times larger) has a much different belief than you do. Why are your preferences/beliefs better than theirs? Because SB agrees with you? Its the only argument you are making. "That is how the competitive scene is". You are literally claiming that 1% of the community's opinion is worth more than the 90% of the community who think differently. "For Glory" doesn't say: "Made for the Smash players who visit sites like SB or Gamefaqs or W/E". It's made for all online players and unfortunately a vast majority of those players like playing FD-only and your opinion is not worth more than theirs just because you are part of the "most hardcore" scene. (Their opinions are not worth more than your opinion either, no community is more important than any other community but said community has a much greater number of players which does make the decision of appealing to them smarter than the decision of appealing to us)."
Yes I always follow SB to a tee and I have no originality especially online where everything should be the way I want it. Please keep telling me how I play games. I never knew how I played games. Thanks for the info. Anyway, Smash series has never been about conformity (look at the premise it's on) so conforming to. You're saying that majority of people play FD only right because if not, then BF should be added if you say no and if you say yes, then I know you're wrong. One's opinions never outweigh another's, as I've been saying they can fight if they want to, just I'm not fighting with them.
"As I said your arguments get more and more in line with mine. By now you already realized how wrong you were but you cannot give up because of your internet "ego"."
I'm so becoming as objective as you are, especially with your ad hominems. As we delve further into this argument, you reveal your strawman.
"I'll make it easy for you:"
Oh this is going to be good.
Please present your strawmans and red herrings.
"You did claim Sakurai's decision were wrong. You did say your way of doing things was better. And you also claimed reasons for this decision which were not true (Which shows you had a lack of understanding of the actual real reasons). But now that you realize you have no argument to back your claims, while on the other hand I do, you have backtracked and you have gone and actually agreed with me."
No, he did try and reach outside the grasps of what he usually makes his games (for casuals). While I do commend that he's reaching outside of his status quo, he didn't try hard enough and his laziness or lack of motive could be taken as a shunning. I do think it's wrong to include only FD. Again, you've made your red herrings as I never did say my desires were better, but hey if you want that cherry-picked red herring to determine your counterargument, sure keep using it as it's not changing my view. My reasons were not because of unreal reasons that you say you've presented (if you have, then it was in a very convoluted, strawman argument). Plenty of arguments were put forth refuting your claims, then was dismissed by you. To claim that you have an argument is LOL because having strawman means you don't. I already addressed the "backtracking".
"I can quote you on all those from before. But I have no need as you have now agreed with the very premise of my very first argument which you disagreed with before, even though you are trying to mask it:"
The original argument was the absence of BF in FG. Agreeing that FD was an easy/lazy choice is pretty obvious. Adding BF wouldn't cause a rift a in the universe, so that was the argument.
"Thanks, this is what I have been saying since the very beginning. Now that you have admitted that it was a decent decision you can now stop whining, stop feeling "angry and offended" because you realize it was a decent decision backed by logic. (Instead of claiming it was done to purposely shun us or that Sakurai made a "wrong" decision or that Sakurai is generalizing the community when he is doing exactly the opposite and appealing to the largest group)"
NO, your original argument was for me to feel grateful for a multibillion dollar corporation. Only later on did you develop your current argument. If you did start with it , this would've ended the argument.
"I invite you to reread my posts (you can check edit stamps and notice I have not edited them since this post) and understand that I too believe the mode could be improved on (as I said several times), I never said it couldn't be. From the very beginning I agreed that adding BF would make it "better" for my own style of play, the "SB/tournament" style of play. Yet from the beginning I explained to you that my (our) style is not the only style out there and that "better" is subjective to a person's preference and trying to judge whether Sakurai's decision was wrong or right by your own definition of what is "better" for
the style of play YOU prefer is egocentrical. Instead it should be analyzed from an objective point of view. Which seems to be what you are doing (or trying to do) now."
Neither of us can be objective at this point. You must be the egocentrist if you believe you're doing something any different from myself. Sure I want things to swing my way (like if DK got the ability to throw his barrels), but I know I'm not in the wrong to add BF on the stagelist because people like BF almost as much as FD outside the competitive realm. To deny the many people who play on places other than FD is where the fault lies. If Sakurai had a multi tiered online system like many were hoping for.....sad.
