"Playing with items in general is considered for fun, so the for fun mode should suffice. "
Those are the words you used when I told you people who like certain items or items with specific stages were also just as "shunned" as you. You said the mode THEY got should suffice. So either you are assuming exactly what I wrote you were assuming or you are telling me that THEY should be complacent when you are not. Why is it that they shouldn't have the same rights as you? What makes you superior to them?
Every community has their own way playing, there is no "casual mode" that encompasses the whole casual scene just like the "SB" scene doesn't encompass the whole competitive scene. Either everyone is wronged or no one is wronged, there is no "suffice" in this scenario which is exactly what I was trying to show you.
Yes but you are asking Sakurai to add about 50+ stages. He has already spent countless hours balancing and testing all the stages included inside Smash, you want him to spend countless MORE hours including more stages.
And then after you claim that you say that you will not partake on an action that takes less than 10 seconds which would achieve exactly what you want just because you don't want to.
I was trying to show that the ability to play on other stages is so unimportant to you that you would rather not use your 10 seconds in order to achieve that ability. Why should Sakurai spend his resources and time on something so unimportant to you that you cannot use 10 seconds of your time yourself to do it?
You seem to think I am saying that companies shouldn't cater to consumers, read my whole post and realize I am saying exactly the opposite. You seem to believe the SB scene are the only consumers worth catering to, which is wrong. You post a picture saying I have a great ego when you are the one expecting all the design decisions to be tailored towards your own style of play. Understanding why Sakurai chose to cater to a much wider audience than just the "SB" scene is not saying they are "our masters".
You just won my argument for me. Your friends though Ike was good and ZSS was bad. If you were not part of that scene they might have continued thinking that. The same applies for stages. Different groups think differently of each stage.
Does the east coast have the same stage list as the west coast? Does the Japanese scene or the UK or the Europe scene have the same stage list? No they don't, they normally disagree in various stages, you should know this.
While BF has never been disagreed upon, all of these scenes have one thing in common, their preferred playstyle. Don't believe me? Then why are stages banned? Because they are "unfair"? They are "random"? Playing without randomness or unfairness is a preference. Any explanation you can give towards balance or fairness is under the preference of playing under a balanced and fair ruleset, which not everyone agrees. As I said before, many people enjoy 1v1, stocks, no items without adhering to the SB ruleset or preferences, you keep forgetting this point.
I was part of the tournament scene for 3-4 years and I actually play and enjoy the SB ruleset. I understand why the ruleset is the way it is and I agree with most of the ruleset myself. I don't, however, assume that everyone else agrees with my own point of view, doing so would be incredibly egocentrical.
You seem to believe your community is the only one who enjoys a certain aspect of the game (1v1, stocks, no items) and that no one else has a right to enjoy said aspect in a different way than you do. I am not trying to shove the "ungrateful" card down your throat, I am trying to teach you that the game isn't solely designed for our very small niche community.
You and your friends != to the whole community. I used to play mostly on FD and BF back in Melee, yet according to the competite scene back then there were many other compatible stages.
I cannot claim to have numbers on this, but Sakurai has the data of 6 years of online Brawl to look at stage picks from the community and decide what seems to be the favorite for this kind of matchup. I can bet more than 50% of those stage picks were FD (meaning one stage was picked more than all other stages combined). I'll try to find those numbers for you.
No, the difference between me and you is you believe your preference is better for every single other person out there. While I am objective and realize everyone has different likes and dislikes and what I like doesn't automatically mean better because I like it. One of the first lessons of game design is "don't fall in love with your own way of thinking/ideas" because you will never be unpartial to your own preferences, you will always think they are "better" because for you they are. But in this case "better" is subjective. My ability to understand why a decision I might not agree with is "good" is why I claim to be objective.
Community A hates BF. Community B hates SV. Community C hates Yoshi's Island. All 3 communities like FD. In this scenario going for all 4 stages would make each community hate 25% of the matches they play. Going only for FD would mean 100% of the matches are liked.
I am not claiming the above numbers are true, I was merely pointing out how choosing 1 stage MIGHT be better than choosing several. Here's the thing, before Sakurai decided to cater ONLY to the casual community, remember how bad that made us feel? Why should he do that to the other smaller communities? Why is that okay?
We all claimed "casual and competitive can coexist". So I tell you the same thing, SB and other smaller communities can coexist. Playing on a different stage than FD takes 10-20 seconds to add someone to an F-List. If you think playing on a different stage is not worth one click and 10 seconds then that's your own problem.
As I said before, he's either wronging everyone or he is wronging no one. You seem to believe all competitive fans think exactly like you do, again they don't.
The example would be more akin to the example of colors: Everyone has different favorite colors. Take apple for example. What colors do they use for their products? Black and White. What about people who'se favorite color is blue. What about red? What about orange? It's the same dilemma. It would be great if apple wanted to make more colors (like they did with the 5-C) but if they don't it isn't Apple "shunning" the people who like Blue, its just them choosing a general color.
SB is about 1% of the whole fanbase, stop thinking your own beliefs are shared by the entirety of the fanbase.
Objectivity is being able to put your own beliefs and preferences aside. Everytime you talk about "comparing" all you say is including more stages is "better". In order for that to be objective then including more stages needs to be bettwr for every single person that will play "For Glory". I can objectively come to the conclusion that not every person believes BF to be a good stage, even if I myself believe they are wrong (very definition of objective).
"Those are the words you used when I told you people who like certain items or items with specific stages were also just as "shunned" as you. You said the mode THEY got should suffice. So either you are assuming exactly what I wrote you were assuming or you are telling me that THEY should be complacent when you are not. Why is it that they shouldn't have the same rights as you? What makes you superior to them?"
Woah, I never said they can't rebel, I just don't have a strong affinity for items. If they want to to fight for it, be my guest, but that's not my battle to fight. That's why there's a distinction. They can fight all they want, no one is stopping them, just I believe their voices are just not organized enough as most are just niche communities while the competitive is more...unified (kind of).
"Every community has their own way playing, there is no "casual mode" that encompasses the whole casual scene just like the "SB" scene doesn't encompass the whole competitive scene. Either everyone is wronged or no one is wronged, there is no "suffice" in this scenario which is exactly what I was trying to show you."
Casual mode is items brah. There are niche casual modes, but it's still casual mode. SB is not the end all be all site as aforementioned, but is being ignored every time you respond. Competitive is no items AND playing on the preordained stages TOs or the consensus agrees on. Don't see why that's so complicated.
"Yes but you are asking Sakurai to add about 50+ stages. He has already spent countless hours balancing and testing all the stages included inside Smash, you want him to spend countless MORE hours including more stages."
Sakurai never added 50+ stages. He has past stages and what not and truth be told, he really wouldn't have to add as much as he is if the stages as "good" as some his other ones. Adding BF to stages available doesn't sound like a big task at all. Never was this argument about adding new stages overall, but only for For Glory mode. I believe you starting/started a strawman argument. Please stop at once.
"And then after you claim that you say that you will not partake on an action that takes less than 10 seconds which would achieve exactly what you want just because you don't want to."
Maybe it's me, but I get better with facing different fighting styles and fighting/beating the same person doesn't bode well with me. I wouldn't have to waste "10 more seconds" if the mode just came with it already. Really, I'm just pointing something could be making the mode better, but for some reason or another, you don't want that. OK cool, but your reason is because what?.....Since I should be grateful? Honestly, your argument as to why I should not get BF as an alt for For Glory has yet to develop into anything other than a strawman filled with red herrings and a couple ad hominems.
"
I was trying to show that the ability to play on other stages is so unimportant to you that you would rather not use your 10 seconds in order to achieve that ability. Why should Sakurai spend his resources and time on something so unimportant to you that you cannot use 10 seconds of your time yourself to do it?"
You know, there are these wonderful devices we have called TVs. With these TVs we can get information, get happy and sad or plain old entertained. On TVs there are these things called channels where you can get entertained with. Now to flip through channels, I use this thing called a remote. Does the manufacturer need to provide a remote? NO! There are perfectly capable ways to change the channels without a remote, a remote is provided to make sure you're not wasting time by trying to flip through the channels otherwise. Sakurai please give me my remote!
"You seem to think I am saying that companies shouldn't cater to consumers, read my whole post and realize I am saying exactly the opposite. You seem to believe the SB scene are the only consumers worth catering to, which is wrong. You post a picture saying I have a great ego when you are the one expecting all the design decisions to be tailored towards your own style of play. Understanding why Sakurai chose to cater to a much wider audience than just the "SB" scene is not saying they are "our masters"."
Again, that is extremely misguided. I only stand up for what bothers me other contemporaries. The other niche communities can fight if they want to, no one is stopping them, in fact I encourage it if they're larger and louder than the competitive community as more attention could be brought to the various scenes. No, that picture relates to you saying you're so objective which is just not true. I don't know how that point was misconstrued, but whatever. The SB isn't the only competitive community out there, understand that.
"You just won my argument for me. Your friends though Ike was good and ZSS was bad. If you were not part of that scene they might have continued thinking that. The same applies for stages. Different groups think differently of each stage."
Yes. I totally won the argument for you. How could I have been so blind! I was arguing about how there should be more stages on For Glory mode and then used my friend's unfamiliarity with a character against them. Straw, straw, straw. They never seen ZSS till I whipped her out mid match and dominated. This was before I was even competitive in Brawl (no SB usage for Brawl). What proves your total genius is your statement:"You and your friends != to the whole community." So that almost nulls your previous genius with a new one! Bravo!
"Does the east coast have the same stage list as the west coast? Does the Japanese scene or the UK or the Europe scene have the same stage list? No they don't, they normally disagree in various stages, you should know this."
Yeah I know, but all three major regions keep the neutrals (FD, BF, SV for Brawl, and YI, DL64, FD, and BF for Melee). Now all For Glory has to do is add BF, then I will be good.
"While BF has never been disagreed upon, all of these scenes have one thing in common, their preferred playstyle. Don't believe me? Then why are stages banned? Because they are "unfair"? They are "random"? Playing without randomness or unfairness is a preference. Any explanation you can give towards balance or fairness is under the preference of playing under a balanced and fair ruleset, which not everyone agrees. As I said before, many people enjoy 1v1, stocks, no items without adhering to the SB ruleset or preferences, you keep forgetting this point."
I do acknowledge that for some reason or another people like the randomness, but how does that exactly play into NOT allowing the BF as an other choice? The argument has strayed way far off and there's now a high build up of straw here.
"I cannot claim to have numbers on this, but Sakurai has the data of 6 years of online Brawl to look at stage picks from the community and decide what seems to be the favorite for this kind of matchup. I can bet more than 50% of those stage picks were FD (meaning one stage was picked more than all other stages combined). I'll try to find those numbers for you."
I cannot lie, a lot of times, FD was chosen when online, but that doesn't mean it right. If BF was the premier choice on online, then the same argument would go for trying to put on FD.
"Community A hates BF. Community B hates SV. Community C hates Yoshi's Island. All 3 communities like FD. In this scenario going for all 4 stages would make each community hate 25% of the matches they play. Going only for FD would mean 100% of the matches are liked."
What is this example? I could do the same arbitrary situation as well, but this doesn't, in any comprehensible way, bolster your argument for the non-inclusion of BF. Maybe I'm missing something among the straw here....
"I am not claiming the above numbers are true, I was merely pointing out how choosing 1 stage MIGHT be better than choosing several. Here's the thing, before Sakurai decided to cater ONLY to the casual community, remember how bad that made us feel? Why should he do that to the other smaller communities? Why is that okay?"
People are creatures of habit, but are also prone to variance. A "one stage fits" all approach is just lazy. Sakurai probably did cater to only the casual community because he didn't think as many people would use it (Brawl's wifi was made like 5 months before release).
"No, the difference between me and you is you believe your preference is better for every single other person out there. While
I am objective and realize everyone has different likes and dislikes and what I like doesn't automatically mean better because I like it. One of the first lessons of game design is "don't fall in love with your own way of thinking/ideas" because you will never be unpartial to your own preferences, you will always think they are "better" because for you they are. But in this case "better" is subjective. My ability to understand why a decision I might not agree with is "good" is why I claim to be objective."
No, I believe, since Sakurai is trying to reach to the competitive community by offering the For Glory mode which is nice. The problem is, that he effectively typecasted us by giving only FD and alts. BF isn't a stretch to have on For Glory, yet it was disallowed.
I never said it was a bad thing to do, but I want it to be great/excellent, not just "good".
"As I said before, he's either wronging everyone or he is wronging no one. You seem to believe all competitive fans think exactly like you do, again they don't."
Good point, but the Majority do and that's the take home point. The one point I actually agree with.
"The example would be more akin to the example of colors: Everyone has different favorite colors. Take apple for example. What colors do they use for their products? Black and White. What about people who'se favorite color is blue. What about red? What about orange? It's the same dilemma. It would be great if apple wanted to make more colors (like they did with the 5-C) but if they don't it isn't Apple "shunning" the people who like Blue, its just them choosing a general color."
See the problem with the color example is that the color doesn't affect the actual process of a car or a phone. STages actually do change how the MU is played and what the outcome could be. IF cars that were red could outperform cars that were blue in certain conditions, then your argument would hold, but that's not how it works.
"SB is about 1% of the whole fanbase, stop thinking your own beliefs are shared by the entirety of the fanbase."
As if I've been claiming that SB is the entire fanbase or the competitive community......nice try.
"Objectivity is being able to put your own beliefs and preferences aside. Everytime you talk about "comparing" all you say is including more stages is "better". In order for that to be objective then including more stages needs to be bettwr for every single person that will play "For Glory". I can objectively come to the conclusion that not every person believes BF to be a good stage, even if I myself believe they are wrong (very definition of objective)"
And not everyone thinks FD is a good stage yet it was arbitrarily chosen for lolz of it. Adding more stages adds more much needed depth and weakens the chances of serious camp games which FD strongly enforces. If FD is only used, prepare for Spacie shootout, Snake chillin back, Spamus, oli throws, Banana Madness, Leaf shield throws, Sun Salutations, Link and Tink and anyone who has a CG wreck all hell. Adding more stages (not alts) does prevent that from happening as much.
"We all claimed "casual and competitive can coexist". So I tell you the same thing, SB and other smaller communities can coexist. Playing on a different stage than FD takes 10-20 seconds to add someone to an F-List. If you think playing on a different stage is not worth one click and 10 seconds then that's your own problem."
It's true, we can and do exist, but strapping the choices in different playstyles into only one stage isn't the way to go. A game like Smash that isn't likely to get updates, should focus on getting it right the first time, so adding more stages to For Glory shouldn't cause a giant rift in the two worlds.
I mean c'mon, he's bound to be playable.. 
.. well nothing to worry about.
