Guide Drastic Improvement

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

1 year is way too short.

One year is too short...

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

So I just read this during a decently long busride and felt like being the 47th person to comment on the only having 1 character.

I agree that having 1 main is best (though I believe 2 is doable) but I don't agree on only playing said main. If I main marth and I struggle with the sheik matchup something that can help tremendously is playing sheik and figuring out her weaknesses. I feel that feeling the characters weaknesses first hand works a lot better than someone just telling that her movement sucks for example.

 

[Deleted member]

So I just read this during a decently long busride and felt like being the 47th person to comment on the only having 1 character.

I agree that having 1 main is best (though I believe 2 is doable) but I don't agree on only playing said main. If I main marth and I struggle with the sheik matchup something that can help tremendously is playing sheik and figuring out her weaknesses. I feel that feeling the characters weaknesses first hand works a lot better than someone just telling that her movement sucks for example.

experimenting with a character for half an hour is quite different from putting hundreds of hours of time and effort in an attempt to fully learn the character, and yet the latter is what most people will do. by all means test things freely, but when you're trying to be good at the game, stick to one character.

 

[Kame-Sennin]

This was a good read.

 

[Fyrelore]

Amazing thread! Learned so much, will definitely take a few re-reading for things to sink in. Also learned a lot of info that could apply to other games, too.

 

[Jackson]

Nice thread. I went to my first tournament recently and got bodied by everyone, as expected. It was inspiring, though! What do you guys think is the next step in my improvement, besides tech skill practice?

 

[Kidney Thief]

Good read but this information is not geared towards me since I play to entertain the crowd with mid tiers not to win. Still because my goal is to be better than yesterday I can take a few things here and there from this article.

 

[Zig-Zag!]

So one of my gripes with this write up has always been in the "bad players section".

I'm not sure if its ever been addressed in this thread so I apologize, but the way it is written really has rubbed me the wrong way. It lends to the narrow minded, elitist perspective of pro smash players as cold and isolated to anyone outside of themselves.

I assume the unspoken intent of that section is to straighten out people who think "bad players" are beneath them - it even says as much that people of different skill levels are important to building the community. But it says this primarily by suggesting they are there to profit off and make yourself feel better, and really just pushes the sentiment :"we can get through this plague of idiots, if we just all try harder".

It's a game. Have fun, and invite people to keep playing. Many of them look up to good players, and even if they only paid in for the chance to get destroyed, they aren't some grand inconvenience. Some of the worst players I have ever played when I started are now winning national tournaments.

Worse players help your consistency in convergent thinking, while better players force you to think divergently. I think that is a much more inclusive and helpful point to stress rather than "Sigh, I GUESS bad players exist, take their money."

Anyway, I just always wanted to say that.

 

[Deleted member]

the whole point of the bad players section is to remind you to not be a jerk, although from a more pragmatic standpoint. i'm not here to push my morals (or lack-thereof) onto any of my readers. if you want to feel like the nice guy that's on you, my job is to teach you how to win.

 

[vynleren]

Just read this for the first time - excellent read, and thanks for putting the time into writing it.

 

[TimeMuffinPhD]

Could you give some tips for the writing and explain why it's an advantageous thing to do? I'm planning on bringing a notebook to Beast V, but I've never really been a note-taking person; I normally pick up on things I do wrong and keep them in my head.

 

[Deleted member]

i updated this with a section on Mental State

 

[Dr Peepee]

nice.

I'm interested in doing my own writeup on emotions in gameplay eventually so it's good to see more being written about this and some of the other stuff you said.

 

[Deleted member]

nice.

actually, i'd like to compare my stance versus yours on this since you're all about that stuff and always have some really good stuff to say concerning concepts like motivation.

also, whenever i go into a twitch stream, people will put like "PPMD" followed by some weird face. can you make a twitter post asking them to like.... stop that? >_>

 

[Dr Peepee]

bro that last part is completely out of my hands...also I think it's funny LOL

in a simple form, my stance on emotion is that it diversifies and complicates everything we think about competition. we think being in the zone is good, but getting there can often involve being emotionally invested(though not to the point of worry or focusing too much on it!). anger tends to be the competitive emotion from what I've read, but it is also typically thought of as the aggressive emotion. is aggression then better suited for competitive play for humans?

I've been turning over the ideas I've come across in personal experience and from various books I've read and players I've encountered over the past few days. I'm getting the writing itch. It may be time to put some good content on here again so we can have a more full understanding of each other.

 

[Jackson]

I've been turning over the ideas I've come across in personal experience and from various books I've read and players I've encountered over the past few days. I'm getting the writing itch. It may be time to put some good content on here again so we can have a more full understanding of each other.

Please do, myself and many others would love to see a write-up from you.

 

[T0RN]

I am a recently new player. I do not mean to brag, but I would say that I have excellent tech skill. On the other hand, my mindset is not that good, as I end up finding myself getting hit but random easily punishable moves, and making overall stupid decisions. Any suggestions?

 

[Yeroc]

Making bad decisions is just a symptom of inexperience in efficiently channeling your mental energies. You need to learn how to think about the game from a more pragmatic standpoint. PPMD would tell you to think about what your goals are. Not just "How can I win the match?" but more discrete elements within that context, such as "How can I get my opponent to commit to a bad option so I can land a hit/knock him offstage for an edgeguard?" You probably also need to learn a bit more about what to actually look for when playing against someone capable. Lastly I suspect you might be too focused on actually correctly executing your tech to be able to pay attention to what your opponent is actually doing.

I noticed you live not far away from PPMD and I. You should get involved with the players at UNCC, and if you're able to travel, you should come with them sometime when they come up to Raleigh for an event. We would love to sit down with you and show you some stuff.

 

[Jackson]

How can I use frame data to improve my play? I hear a lot about doing frame perfect aerials and stuff, what does this mean and how can I integrate it?

Also, what is the value of looking at hitboxes?

 

[Stride]

How can I use frame data to improve my play?

Also, what is the value of looking at hitboxes?

Knowing the data allows you to make more informed decisions, but it's up to you to apply it. You can often work out these kinds of thing to a certain extent just by playing and intuiting/feeling them, but there are always going to be things you miss, and looking at the data allows you to be absolutely sure (are you always going to be able to determine whether a move that hits on frame 6 is definitely faster than a move which hits on frame 7 just by feeling it?).

Looking at hitboxes and frame data allows you to theorise/plan things that might be difficult to do just from experience playing the game; if you know which frame something comes out on/stays out until and how/where it hits, then you are able to compare properties to determine things like: which moves are quicker, how much frame advantage a move has on shield (and therefore how safe it is and what your options afterwards could/should be), what options a move might be able to beat (by being faster, longer ranged, etc.), and so on.

Many moves have unintuitive hitboxes (they don't hit where they look like they hit, basically): Yoshi's nair doesn't have a hitbox on his extended foot, Ice Climbers can't hit with the top halves of their hammers, Jigglypuff's bair is hugely disjointed such that its range is roughly twice as large as her actual leg, and so on. Many moves otherwise have properties which are not immediately obvious: Falco's down smash has leg intangibility while charging, Luigi's downwards-angled forward tilt has extremely low set knockback while the neural and upwards angled forward tilts do not, Marth's neutral aerial has the same properties for tipper and non-tipper hits despite them having different sounds, and so on.

Some of these properties might be noticed during normal gameplay, and some might not be. By looking at the hitboxes/frame data, one is able to research these properties in detail so you you can better theorise about how to apply them. Marth is a good example of a character to apply this to because of his complex hitbox properties: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)/Up_tilt

To reiterate: frame data is just information; you use it by learning things from it and applying what you've learned to your play. There are obvious benefits to knowing information about the game, and frame data is just one way of organising and presenting that information. Asking how to apply frame data is like asking how to apply maths; it's such a broad statement that the only real answer is either incredibly superficial (like mine above) or so in-depth as to be practically impossible to express.

I hear a lot about doing frame perfect aerials and stuff, what does this mean and how can I integrate it?

"Frame-perfect" just means doing something with timing down to a specific frame (this is practically perfect timing because there's no shorter meaningful unit of time within the game, other than maybe input polling intervals). What this frame might be depends on the situation; often it's as soon as possible after whatever lag there is. For example, frame-perfect multishines are where you jump cancel the shine on the first possible frame and then shine on the first frame you are airborne after that (frame data here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Double_shine).

One definition of "frame-perfect aerials" would be initiating the aerial on the first frame that you are airborne after a jump; you should not be doing this in every situation. For example, if you're doing a nair out of shield with Sheik then you want to be as quick as possible so that you can hit the opponent with it, but if you're doing a nair approach with Fox then you often want the nair to come out later so it's stronger when it connects (it gets weaker over time which leaves it with less frame advantage on shield amongst other things).

 

[Jackson]

These are super vague and broad questions.

There's much more to it than what I can clearly explain; knowing the data allows you to make more informed decisions, but it's up to you to apply it. You can often work out these kinds of thing to a certain extent just by playing and intuiting/feeling them, but there are always going to be things you miss, and looking at the data allows you to be absolutely sure (are you always going to be able to determine whether a move that hits on frame 6 is definitely faster than a move which hits on frame 7 just by feeling it?).

Looking at hitboxes and frame data allows you to theorise/plan things that might be difficult to do just from experience playing the game; if you know which frame something comes out on/stays out until and how/where it hits, then you are able to compare properties to determine things like: which moves are quicker, how much frame advantage a move has on shield (and therefore how safe it is and what your options afterwards could/should be), what options a move might be able to beat (by being faster, longer ranged, etc.), and so on.

Many moves have unintuitive hitboxes (they don't hit where they look like they hit, basically): Yoshi's nair doesn't have a hitbox on his extended foot, Ice Climbers can't hit with the top halves of their hammers, Jigglypuff's bair is hugely disjointed such that its range is roughly twice as large as her actual leg, an so on. Many moves otherwise have properties which are not immediately obvious: Falco's down smash has leg intangibility while charging, Luigi's downwards-angled forward tilt has extremely low set knockback while the neural and upwards angled forward tilts do not, Marth's neutral aerial has the same properties for tipper and non-tipper hits despite them having different sounds, and so on.

Some of these properties might be noticed during normal gameplay, and some might not be. By looking at the hitboxes/frame data, one is able to research these properties in detail so you you can better theorise about how to apply them. Marth is a good example of a character to apply this to because of his complex hitbox properties: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Marth_(SSBM)/Up_tilt

"Frame-perfect" just means doing something with timing down to a specific frame (because there's no shorter meaningful unit of time within the game, other than maybe input polling intervals, this is practically perfect timing). What this frame might be depends on the situation; often it's as soon as possible after whatever lag there is. For example, frame-perfect multishines are where you jump cancel on the first possible frame and then shine on the first frame you are airborne after that (frame data here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Double_shine).

One definition of "frame-perfect aerials" would be initiating the aerial on the first frame that you are airborne after a jump; this is not necessarily what you want to be doing all the time. For example, if you're doing a nair out of shield with Sheik then you want to be as quick as possible, but if you're doing a nair approach with Fox then you often want the nair to come out later so it's stronger when it connects (it gets weaker over time which leaves it with less frame advantage on shield amongst other things).

Thanks man! Good explanation and gave me a lot to think about.

 

[TheSilentAmp]

So... I have some general questions. Even though I'm like... Way late to the party here.

I skimmed over the guide and I have plans to come back and read it in sections, day after day. And from what I've skimmed so far, it's way helpful, and I'm sure it'll be more helpful when I look in-depth to it.

But my main problem is that I only have a select few people I can play with. I don't drive (I'm afraid to because of my vision problems), and there's basically only 4 people I can play with, and only one of which is on a regular basis. There isn't a huge tournament scene where I live. The closest I can think of is Xanadu, which is 2 and half hours away. Not ONLY that, but I have a job where it's rare they'll give me my time off even if I ask for it a month in advance (**** Wal-Mart). So the only practice I can get against humans so far is my one friend, regularly. One of the others is my uncle, who hates playing against me because I'm such a competitive person. I pretty much only pick my main against him, and he hates that because I'm always trying to win.

So, I don't really know what to do when it comes to practice. Practicing against CPUs has been referred to me several times as "a bad idea". The only good thing I've heard about them is that it's best to put them on low level and use them as sandbags to get a general knowledge on how to string your combos together, but that's it.

I'm sorta at a loss here. I want to get into competitive smash more. I want to improve so much more, but I feel like there's this giant wall basically telling me: "Nope. **** you." I can only improve but so much playing the same person over and over, when we're on relatively equal skill levels. And he's in the same situation as me when it comes to travelling.

 

[Deleted member]

playing endless hours vs a lv 1 cpu fox is a good way to improve your fluidity and subsequently your punishment game. even if 90% of your play is just beating on the computer, you can get quite good at the game that way.

 

[ValiantNorth]

...But my main problem is that I only have a select few people I can play with. I don't drive (I'm afraid to because of my vision problems), and there's basically only 4 people I can play with, and only one of which is on a regular basis. There isn't a huge tournament scene where I live.

I'm sorta at a loss here. I want to get into competitive smash more. I want to improve so much more, but I feel like there's this giant wall basically telling me: "Nope. **** you." I can only improve but so much playing the same person over and over, when we're on relatively equal skill levels. And he's in the same situation as me when it comes to travelling.

I feel the same way, I think the best thing you could do would be to continue as you are now. I only have 1 person to play Smash with, it's a close friend of mine and we can only meet up once per week since he lives across the river about 40 minutes away. We're on a relatively similar skill level so getting better and expanding my experience isn't an option.

 

[bound_for_earth]

playing endless hours vs a lv 1 cpu fox is a good way to improve your fluidity and subsequently your punishment game. even if 90% of your play is just beating on the computer, you can get quite good at the game that way.

i do that all of the time to train my ness so i can stand the slightest chance against a profesional fox i really does work in getting better at punishing your oponent. ness is all about defence when put up against a profestional fox.

 

[MartianMedia]

Thanks for this post! I have been trying to improve my game and wasn't sure how to go about it the right way.

 

[Cheetah164]

As you are reading this sentence, stop here. Stand up, like actually physically raise your body, stretch and reach as high above your head as possible, and then resume reading.

tfw I'm reading this on the bus...

 

[Sempai]

Always quality content

 

[Kaishin]

Playing with defined intelligence is more valuable than anything specialized that this game has to offer. You should spend a large amount of time working with mindful interaction with the opponent before you worry about anything else as a competitive player.

This seems like one of the most important ideas proposed by this piece, but it's only talked about for a single paragraph.

I find that I'm telling myself "Pay attention, Brian!" several times during and before a match, but every time after a few seconds I just go to autopilot. When I try to concentrate it just becomes so confusing to think of all of the potential variables and just to read my opponent. Occasionally I'll be able to read my opponent's moves, such as when I play smash 4 and fight a Falcon or a Ganondorf. These are characters that have a few obvious yet powerful neutral options against me (I play Rosalina). They don't have as many options in neutral as other characters, so reads are much simpler.

I used to think autopilot was caused by a short attention span and a lack of habit (of not being on autopilot), but maybe instead I'm simply going about this the wrong way. Maybe there's a more systematic way to teach myself these things, sort of like the proper DI responses to getting stuck in certain moves. So how do I interact with the opponent?

If I could correctly do that, everything else seems simple by comparison. At that point it's just an issue of figuring out every matchup with my main.

This is an excellent read, but the very fact that I cannot seem to grasp such a fundamental concept of the game is why I haven't attempted to make use of the rest of this.

 

[Jackson]

^ Same here. Autopiloting is an absolute plague on my gameplay that I just don't know how to cure. Although I occasionally pick up on habits subconsciously, I never actively think. I really don't know how to fix it.

 

[Sublimeqt]

Im motivated to get better at melee, but I dont have anyone to play against but CPU's how do I find ppl to play with through netplay?

 

[TS 836]

Thanks for this, I think the interactions part really helps as well as the autopilot part. I've been thinking on this myself for sometime, and I think it comes from just focusing on tech during a match. I think the thinking during a match is the key thing for mindgames so in that sense.......its critical. As someone who excels at tech skill easily, I was wondering why I lose so much.

But, when I think about it now after reading....I see its because I'm making sub-optimal decisions. Not mistakes so much, just I'm not doing the best thing and what I did do gets beaten or read.

So again, thanks for this. I even have a notebook now where I will record various things that beat me out or mind games that just stumped me in a match.

 

[Sempai]

Focus on being engaged to your opponent, not in your own world.

In the Shotokan world we call this "self dance" try to stay with your opponent, as supposed to thinking about your own character.

Also try recording your gameplay and see if you can guess what you are going to do next.

 

[Jackson]

Focus on being engaged to your opponent, not in your own world.

In the Shotokan world we call this "self dance" try to stay with your opponent, as supposed to thinking about your own character.

Also try recording your gameplay and see if you can guess what you are going to do next.

Is it good or bad if you can often guess what you do next?

 

[-ACE-]

In response to 1 year being too short, I point out that linguini went from super scrub to best Ganon on earth in 10 months of play. If a naturally gifted player picks up the game and begins logging hours of play with GOOD players regularly, lots can happen.

 

[AirFair]

I just have to say thanks mow for always writing good stuff

 

[Deleted member]

^ Same here. Autopiloting is an absolute plague on my gameplay that I just don't know how to cure. Although I occasionally pick up on habits subconsciously, I never actively think. I really don't know how to fix it.

the irony to this is that autopilot is a very very good thing for actually winning games, it lets you take mental shortcuts to eliminate bad options that would incur losses while not slowing down your play. but thats later when you transition into playing to win. when you are playing to improve, you must ignore playing to win and autopilot to make yourself better at winning on autopilot later when you are much better at the game. for an easy reference, armada has a fantastic autopilot when he plays. we are simply avoiding them in a temporary way.

much of my article has this contradictory nature to it. in each case, i have chosen to write what the reader needs to take in and process. this can be seen in retrospect with regards to sticking to one character, playing to avoid using reads, and memorizing technical aspects of the game. once you are a top player, these ideas are already intuitive and fluid to you, and you can recognize that each has its exceptions. but my job is not to show you the endgame since it can be distracting to the learning process, my job is to get you there. you should take my advice at face value and trust that i will lead you to the correct conclusion half blindly.

 

[-ACE-]

Autopilot is never good at top level.....The opportunities to take mental shortcuts are few and far between in neutral game. Top tier mixups don't allow for it.

 

[lethallooks]

anyone up for some SSBM netplay hit me up at 385-208-9296

 

[GenNyan]

Autopilot is never good at top level.....The opportunities to take mental shortcuts are few and far between in neutral game. Top tier mixups don't allow for it.

Well no... I doubt Mango has to think about each wavedash input. A player physically can't think about everything; they don't have enough room in their working memory. By auto piloting their tech skill/other aspects, players can focus on the mental game and the actual match, which is what I think Umbreon was getting at.