EthereaL
Smash Journeyman
It was a good read.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
really i encourage people to write down everything. putting stuff into writing is a powerful tool.
Psycho_Bayleef
Smash Apprentice
Record all your serious matches, and analyze what you did wrong. Even if you won. Find your bad habits and squash them
KingDozie
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 456
Also the whole thing about not playing a match thoughtless(Autopilot style) is bad but overthinking is a bad thing too. It hinders your performance by second guessing alot but it helps you adapt to a match easier. One of hugs post stated that sometimes you just need your instincts help you and just clear your mind. You just need to do things naturally.
D
Deleted member
Guest
when you're trying to learn, usually over-thinking is a good thing because you're more likely to come across a solution for whatever issue you're having. if you're over-thinking in tournament, it's still okay because you can use the tournament as a learning tool too. you might do worse that at that particular event, but in the long run i think over-thinking things is fine.
Bones0
Smash Legend
If overthinking things is fine, I'm gonna be gdlk.
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
In reference to over-thinking, it's about finding a good balance. I once talked to Dr. Pee Pee, and he told me that he focused on one particular thing he needed to work on improving, and only focused and thought about nailing that one thing while he played matches (playing naturally otherwise) until he felt like he mastered that thing enough to move onto focusing on something else. The problem with "overthinking" in not that you're being too analytical or thoughtful, it's that you're trying to do/fix too many things at once. Improvement is a form of change, and change needs to be gradual in order to really work effectively.
As for improving your punish game, the obvious piece of advice is making sure your execution is on point. You need to spend a lot of time practicing versus whatever you can, computers or people, and just grind out your punish game. The next step is figuring out how to counter what your opponent is doing, and actually punish them. So if they're spamming something, like grabs, you have to analyze that and think about how your character can not only counter grabs, but shut them down and/or fully punish it. This question is really too character-specific for me to give further advice on until you give me the character you have in mind, or alternatively you can just ask in the character-specific subforums. But you are right in that a punish game is incredibly important. In layman's terms, if you can't effectively give your opponent a reason to be scared of doing things, then they'll just keep doing things.
As for improving your punish game, the obvious piece of advice is making sure your execution is on point. You need to spend a lot of time practicing versus whatever you can, computers or people, and just grind out your punish game. The next step is figuring out how to counter what your opponent is doing, and actually punish them. So if they're spamming something, like grabs, you have to analyze that and think about how your character can not only counter grabs, but shut them down and/or fully punish it. This question is really too character-specific for me to give further advice on until you give me the character you have in mind, or alternatively you can just ask in the character-specific subforums. But you are right in that a punish game is incredibly important. In layman's terms, if you can't effectively give your opponent a reason to be scared of doing things, then they'll just keep doing things.
KingDozie
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 456
Wow really good post thanks
2-Tone
Smash Journeyman
Fantastic read, Umbreon. Judging by the 'No Johns' segment, I'd say you missed your calling as a motivational speaker, ha. Seriously, though, eloquently put and well executed article. And, I might add, great advice for brand-spanking new players as well as vets. Keep doin' what you're doin', man.
havaianas71
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 1
how do i play with friends and players who are hesitant to try out with me pleading doesnt operate basically wondering them doesnèt function, as well as attempting to moneymatch them doesnt operate
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
Great read. That last part about applying it to life was inspiring and very true.
I'm going to have to disagree on the "sticking to 1 character" though. The top 5 melee players main at least 2:
Mango- Fox, Falco
Armada- Peach, Young Link
M2K- Marth, Shiek
Dr. PP- Falco, Marth
Hbox- Puff, Ness
Having a secondary compliments your main's tough matchups.
I'm going to have to disagree on the "sticking to 1 character" though. The top 5 melee players main at least 2:
Mango- Fox, Falco
Armada- Peach, Young Link
M2K- Marth, Shiek
Dr. PP- Falco, Marth
Hbox- Puff, Ness
Having a secondary compliments your main's tough matchups.
And all of them got good in the first place playing exclusively one character. Did any of the top 5 at any point have multiple mains while not already in the top 5?
krazyzyko
Smash Champion
Mango and M2K, but the rest weren't top 5.
Oh wait Armada was staright up Peach, my bad.
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M2K was a dominant player in 2007 playing exclusively Marth, and switched to his triple maining later. Armada, PP, and Hbox all rose to prominence with exclusively their mains. I thought Mango just played Puff at Pound 3 (I would say that tournament confirmed him as a nationally dominant player). But if he played Falco back then, then I suppose that's one counterexample. A new player who wants to get good is still much better off playing one character, because until you're as good with your main as one of the top 5 is with theirs matchups aren't your problem.
D
Deleted member
Guest
those are top 5 players. when you're a top 5 player, you can tell me all about how thankful you were that i made you stick to one character.
d z
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2014
- Messages
- 49
All of these players made it to the top with only one character (with the possible exception of m2k, but to me he became a top player with just Fox. Even if you do count m2k, if your plan is to dedicate as much time as m2k did to this game in order to learn multiple chars, than I'll see you in 10 years). Also has HBox ever even won an important tourney match with Ness? Come on man.
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krazyzyko
Smash Champion
You guys are right, my bad. They mainly stuck to 1 char until they were on top.
N1c2k3
Smash Lord
I can't remember if I read the first part when it first came out, or whether I'm seeing this for the first time. Either way, I read the first few paragraphs, which is about all my attention span can handle. Maybe create a section about that at use me as a "what not to do" example. I'm sure the rest of this was good. Thanks.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Just go to local tournaments where virtually everyone will be willing to play at least a few games with you. There is a pinned thread with Facebook groups for each region, and you can also check Tournament Listings for upcoming tournaments.
Before a match, I try to recollect all the information I know about the matchup and my opponent (if I know how they play). This is why writing it all down is handy. You can remember it much quicker and more easily (and more accurately). For me, I try to remember what to focus on, what I want to be doing in the neutral game, and what things represent me winning (not just stocks, but something more like getting a space animal to 40 damage so they get knocked down is a huge win for me).
Always have the attitude that you can win, and that you WILL win. Confidence is extremely important. I try to look for habits my opponent exhibits (usually with tech patterns, but with Link, it is important to see what they do with all the different things you can do with projectiles). Focus, focus, focus. You need to be in the match at all times. If you even start thinking "I need to focus on this match", you are not focused. It's hard to do all the time, but it's very important.
Don't doubt yourself - even if you have a bad match, or bad stock, keep your confidence. If you get nervous, take a deep breath and try to pay attention to important things, like your opponent's habits and play style.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
I probably shouldn't be speaking for said players, but from my observations they all really have a single main.
Mango - Fox
Armada - Peach
M2K - Sheik
Dr. PP - Falco
Hbox - Puff
Occasionally, its gets switched up, but these are the sort of go to characters in the long run. At least, in GF/WF/LF I'll see those characters picked for most matches. maybe I'd see an occasional M2K Marth against pp Falco, but it goes to Sheik in the long term. I think Dr.PP wants a viable Marth and Mango I dunno about fox/falco switch. In the end, I see Fox most often.
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doctorayegee
Smash Cadet
This is probably the best thread on the boards. I just picked Mario as my main and bought a notebook 
KingDozie
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 456
Lol drop mario and pick up Doc atleast have both.This is probably the best thread on the boards. I just picked Mario as my main and bought a notebook
doctorayegee
Smash Cadet
I'll just have Dr. Mario as my secondary. Mario's cape is way better than Dr. Mario's.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Removing emotion from my play is proving to be one of the most difficult things I've tried to do in my life, lol. I've got an idea of how to go about it, but it's so difficult.
doctorayegee
Smash Cadet
Try playing with headphones.Removing emotion from my play is proving to be one of the most difficult things I've tried to do in my life, lol. I've got an idea of how to go about it, but it's so difficult.
I wanted to reply just to commend you because Collette Brunelle is one of my favorite characters from my absolute favorite game. It might seem a little unrelated, but to control your emotions maybe you can try zen meditation or transcendental meditation.Removing emotion from my play is proving to be one of the most difficult things I've tried to do in my life, lol. I've got an idea of how to go about it, but it's so difficult.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 5,493
Hahaha, I love her a ton too. Tales of Symphonia is sooooooo good.
What I've started doing is trying to focus less and less on thoughts that don't help me directly in the match. "Oh if I beat him, X" or "God I hate Y matchup." I just clear my mind of everything but the screen in front of me. Deep breaths in between stocks or before games help too. They help a LOT.
@Doctor: I find that being able to hear game sounds is really valuable for me, and the outside world doesn't distract me that much.
What I've started doing is trying to focus less and less on thoughts that don't help me directly in the match. "Oh if I beat him, X" or "God I hate Y matchup." I just clear my mind of everything but the screen in front of me. Deep breaths in between stocks or before games help too. They help a LOT.
@Doctor: I find that being able to hear game sounds is really valuable for me, and the outside world doesn't distract me that much.
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john!
Smash Hero
auditory reaction time is faster than visual reaction time. playing with headphones seems like a disadvantage unless you are easily distracted by ambient noise
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Ah, but how much is the disadvantage.
http://www.colorado.edu/eeb/courses/1230jbasey/abstracts 2005/5.htm
From that article the reaction difference for two experiments are ~0.06 seconds (at worst) and ~0.03 seconds. One frame in melee is 0.016 seconds. So, at worst you might be (reacting) 2-4 frames slower with visual. Not always the best indication and its really close to being negligible given the person.
http://www.colorado.edu/eeb/courses/1230jbasey/abstracts 2005/5.htm
From that article the reaction difference for two experiments are ~0.06 seconds (at worst) and ~0.03 seconds. One frame in melee is 0.016 seconds. So, at worst you might be (reacting) 2-4 frames slower with visual. Not always the best indication and its really close to being negligible given the person.
john!
Smash Hero
it's an appreciable difference in a fighting game where players react several times per second.
Cestus
Smash Cadet
I personally disagree only with Rule #2. Plenty of great players have multiple characters. You can absolutely benefit from playing multiple characters, getting a perspective from both angles and learning more because of it. To say you can only play one character is fair in mastery but rules out so much potential for improvement and learning. I'm obviously aware nobody is forced to follow these, just voicing my opinion.
This is something that has already been argued. The point though is that for really dramatic and meaningful learning, sticking to one character is useful because you take the time to learn all of the game through one char and you can dig deeper and deeper into the higher level play faster by focusing on the tools of one character.
Plenty of great players do play multiple characters now, but did they start off learning multiple characters? Mango started only playing Puff, Mew2king started only playing Fox, Peepee started only playing Falco, Armada started only playing Peach, etc., etc.
Point is not that not learning multiple characters is bad, but trying to have a serious secondary or tertiary before you've even hit an upper-mid level in skill is really detrimental to your growth speed.
Cestus
Smash Cadet
I absolutely agree with that, just specific to what step in development you are in. For new players, learn one character first, master them.