Drack's Wolf Guide - now maintained by Kashakunaki

[Drack]

-added Meta Knight Matchup

Meta Knight - "No way! I don't believe it!"
A character who can easily punish Wolf's mistakes. Let that sink in for a minute. Ok. The key to fighting a good MK is unpredictibility. You really need to mix it up and use moves that younormally wouldn't. If the MK isn't in a good position to punish, you can get away with missing. Also, beware of his edgeguarding. MK isn't terribly good at killing in general, but Wolf suffers greatly from MK's edgeguarding, so you'll have to mix up your recoveries too. Keep in mind MK's disjointed hitboxes, attack speed, priority, and low lag when you go on the offensive. Once you get a feel for your opponent, these can be overcome. Don't forget that MK has to hit you a lot more than you hit him for a KO.

 

[$hYne]

Do not make guides yet.
Especially no match ups.
Everyone is still a newb at this game.

Good day sirs.

 

[Drack]

As new information arises, the guide will be updated. It is and will continue to reflect the current state of the game. Yes, the game is new, but much has already been discovered. How the game is played will be changed over time, no doubt, but as of now, this is the best collection of information about Wolf, and I plan to keep it that way.

Even if the entire game gets turned upside down, stats like the damage and KO percentages of moves are the same.

The information is valuable. Your comment isn't.

 

[$hYne]

You don't know ANYTHING about real matchups at this time, no one knows.
So leave it for now and focus on other things. Moves/Damage/Stuf is ok, but matchups are just stupid.

 

[NOVA1106]

has anyone tried shine to over smash?

 

[Drack]

has anyone tried shine to over smash?

The opponent has enough time to shield the smash, so it's not a combo. It looks like one though.

 

[PipePlaza]

This is very helpful, as I'll be maining Wolf!

 

[blingchu]

2 questions

1. What is a good move for spamming(that i dont really have to worry about loosing all the power off)

and

2.Does the reflector block physical attacks(i've never used the space animals)

and

3.Can you perform more in air moves after your side b?

 

[Drack]

2 questions

1. What is a good move for spamming(that i dont really have to worry about loosing all the power off)

and

2.Does the reflector block physical attacks(i've never used the space animals)

and

3.Can you perform more in air moves after your side b?

1. Blaster. Absolutely the most spammable and safest to spam move in Wolf's arsenal.

2. No, Pit's is the only reflector that will block physical attacks too.

3. Nope, Side+B will put Wolf into Fallspecial.

 

[ShumPenPo]

So I've been playing around with wolf and find him to be really cool. When doing some things with his side+B i found some very intereting things. I know that in the guide it already talks about not sweet spotting the ledge so that you automatically appear on the stage or sort of run into the stage then fall down.

I was however unsure if you knew that you ca actually go THROUGH certain stages with his side B. A GREAT example for this is battlefield. If you drop down and at the right moment side b into the stage you will actually go through it and end up in the middle of the stage (also hitting anyone there). It works on other stages such as the left side of spear pillar (not sure about the right side but i may be doing it wrong) as well as smashvill both side (but i find it easier on the left for some reason :l)

I think it has to deal with doing his side B on a 45 degree ( or 135) angled stage so that you go striaght through it and end up on the stage. Im not too sure about this because I havent done extensive testing. Also if this is already known im sorry, its just it wasnt in the guide when i read it or when i searched for it.

 

[O D I N]

Kirby approves of this awesome guide. (b'.')b

 

[Kashakunaki]

Nice, Odin.

Hmm, explain further ShumPenPo.

Bump for great justice.

 

[FS Fantom]

ShumPenPo: Can you get us some kind of media to show us what part of the stage to do this through?

 

[teekay]

Yeah I would really love to see a video of that if it is at all possible for you to make one.

 

[Ghost07]

I recommend either firing his blaster or f smashing after a shine so your opponent cant punish you unless they sheild grab. The stun from his shine is not that strong and fast characters can return an attack before the shine animation.

 

[Drack]

I've been performing better with other characters than with Wolf lately. Especially Meta Knight. As of now, my MK outperforms my Wolf by quite a bit, and I don't see much potential for MY wolf to be as good at a competitive level. This does NOT pertain to Wolf in general, and I can easily see Wolf being mid to high tier.

Consequently, I feel it may be in the Wolf community's best interest for someone else to maintain the guide. I'm looking for a dedicated Wolf main with some tournament experience and time to listen to the community and update the guide with others' worthwhile ideas. As I don't see many forumgoers who fit the bill at this time, this is an open invitation and will remain open until I find someone suitable. Send me a PM if interested.

In the meantime I'll keep updating and revising the guide.

 

[GDX]

i need to have a convo with you drack. Can't seem to consistently do the other 2 lengths of the wolf illusion attack. Actually, i can barely do the middle length at all >.>

 

[Tom-Sawyer]

Great job man!

Cleared up quite a few questions I had.

 

[solesoul]

Why is this on the second page, underneath all of the useless threads? Can't wait until you flesh out the matchups

 

[A New England Winter]

Bump for a helpful, in-depth and well organized guide (and great justice). This needs some sticky, like, now.

 

[Drack]

March 22:
-Drack's final edition of the guide. Reworded bits and pieces from EVERY section. Now, ownership has been passed to Kashakunaki who wants to continue what I've started and is more than qualified. Thanks everyone for your contributions and for reading my work!

That's right folks. Expect Kashakunaki to make a new thread with a first post he can edit. It's been fun, everyone.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Thank you, Drack. I, as I'm sure everyone else here, greatly appreciates your contributions here at the Wolf board and hopefully this isn't the last we see of you.

Now then we must move forward. I will, before days end, make a new thread with Drack's guide that I can edit, as he mentioned, and add my own editions, opinions, and commentary as I see fit for the guide and helpful for others, of course giving all due credit to Drack.

Hope to cooperate with everyone soon.

 

[Relhots]

Thank you, Drack. I, as I'm sure everyone else here, greatly appreciates your contributions here at the Wolf board and hopefully this isn't the last we see of you.

Now then we must move forward. I will, before days end, make a new thread with Drack's guide that I can edit, as he mentioned, and add my own editions, opinions, and commentary as I see fit for the guide and helpful for others, of course giving all due credit to Drack.

Hope to cooperate with everyone soon.

Well, me and ghost were making another one... i already got the damage, but its way more extensive though.

 

[Kashakunaki]

We really only need one Wolf guide. There is already enough duplicates of topics on this board as is, what with the absence of a moderator to limit the spam. That's why we have these official threads.

 

[JFizzle]

Just in case you guys don't know (which I doubt), Wolf's Side B sweetspot has another sweetspot in which it spikes an opponent downward. I believe its the lower back part of Wolf's body, near his legs. Just thinking it should be part of the guide.

 

[Relhots]

We really only need one Wolf guide. There is already enough duplicates of topics on this board as is, what with the absence of a moderator to limit the spam. That's why we have these official threads.

Well, we were just trying to help... you dont have to get all pissed and smart about it.

 

[Kashakunaki]

I'm not being "pissed".

 

[ArtikFox]

Just something I've noticed while playing Wolf. Like the first post describes, if you cancel his side B, he gets a really good slide out of it. However, the real bonus comes when you cancel it in midair. Normally, like his up B, he'll fall straight down right afterwards. However, if you cancel it in midair, he keeps his forward momentum. The timing is difficult, but can be learned, so I think that gives him a slightly improved recovery.

 

[Relhots]

I'm not being "pissed".

... your acting like your talking to a person lesser than you.

 

[Bocks]

the guide says fair = one of wolfs kill moves / also sites how fair kills at lower percents, this vid doesn't rly PROVE anything but.. check it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ7gswkcdPg
fair is def a killing option but in no way does it have attributes of one of wolfs kill moves

 

[Kashakunaki]

Just something I've noticed while playing Wolf. Like the first post describes, if you cancel his side B, he gets a really good slide out of it. However, the real bonus comes when you cancel it in midair. Normally, like his up B, he'll fall straight down right afterwards. However, if you cancel it in midair, he keeps his forward momentum. The timing is difficult, but can be learned, so I think that gives him a slightly improved recovery.

Interesting. I'll definitely check that out.

... your acting like your talking to a person lesser than you.

No, I'm stating the facts. You are just interpreting it as such.

the guide says fair = one of wolfs kill moves / also sites how fair kills at lower percents, this vid doesn't rly PROVE anything but.. check it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ7gswkcdPg
fair is def a killing option but in no way does it have attributes of one of wolfs kill moves

Unfortunately I don't have the time to view that video, but I will when I return. However, Fair is definitely a kill move at around 120%+ assuming you haven't decreased its knockback.

 

[Drack]

the guide says fair = one of wolfs kill moves / also sites how fair kills at lower percents, this vid doesn't rly PROVE anything but.. check it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ7gswkcdPg
fair is def a killing option but in no way does it have attributes of one of wolfs kill moves

I'm afraid you're wrong, and your arguments are flawed. Here's why.

With no DI, no stale moves against a Mario standing in the middle of Final Destination, Fair kills off the top at 143% and no lower. That's not even an airborne opponent! In the same test, Fsmash kills to the sidewall (not the side-bottom diagonal wall) at 151% and no lower. It's easy to see which number is lower, but you make some arguments refuting this so I'll rebut those as well.

DI doesn't work the way you think it does. If a move hits you straight up and you DI straight down, you're not saving yourself at all. Only perpendicular DI is counted. If a move is hitting you straight up, you can save yourself by DIing to the SIDE. Try it against something like a marth upthrow or something else that hits close to straight up in training mode at high percent. It sounds counterintuitive but it's been proven. I didn't know about this until recently. If you don't DI perpendicularly, the game does something akin to vector addition to apply the perpendicular portion of the DI. As in, DI works ok if a hit sends you up and to the right and you DI straight to the left. This makes the move send you less right and more up, but you can make it send you further up and even less to the right by DIing up and left instead of straight left. Also, I'm only referring to DIing in a single direction, not any crazy triangle DI. That's beyond my skill level.

As to the video footage posted, there are three reasons this doesn't prove anything:
-The Snake wasn't at a killable percent
-Snake is second only to Dedede in difficulty to kill off the top due to a combination of weight and falling speed - See My analysis on character weights
-The Wolf in that video was fairing over and over and over again. Stale moves have vastly decreased knockback

My Conclusions: Against heavy or fastfalling opponents (Dedede Snake DK and Bowser particularly) if you spam Fair you can absolutely juggle with it. Against most opponents, if you use fair the same amount as you use fsmash, it's a better killer than fsmash. But dsmash is even better than that.

 

[Count Lupin]

This Guide is very informative nice job in writing it , but i have one thing that might have been pointed out already. wolf can chaingrab but its alot harder and can only be done from 0-55/60% for most characters. what makes it tricky is that u would need to do a nair following the grab, im not sure if it could be used for his palette of combos or not but its a topic up for debate on its usefulness

 

[Bocks]

I'm afraid you're wrong, and your arguments are flawed. Here's why.

With no DI, no stale moves against a Mario standing in the middle of Final Destination, Fair kills off the top at 143% and no lower. That's not even an airborne opponent! In the same test, Fsmash kills to the sidewall (not the side-bottom diagonal wall) at 151% and no lower. It's easy to see which number is lower, but you make some arguments refuting this so I'll rebut those as well.

DI doesn't work the way you think it does. If a move hits you straight up and you DI straight down, you're not saving yourself at all. Only perpendicular DI is counted. If a move is hitting you straight up, you can save yourself by DIing to the SIDE. Try it against something like a marth upthrow or something else that hits close to straight up in training mode at high percent. It sounds counterintuitive but it's been proven. I didn't know about this until recently. If you don't DI perpendicularly, the game does something akin to vector addition to apply the perpendicular portion of the DI. As in, DI works ok if a hit sends you up and to the right and you DI straight to the left. This makes the move send you less right and more up, but you can make it send you further up and even less to the right by DIing up and left instead of straight left. Also, I'm only referring to DIing in a single direction, not any crazy triangle DI. That's beyond my skill level.

As to the video footage posted, there are three reasons this doesn't prove anything:
-The Snake wasn't at a killable percent
-Snake is second only to Dedede in difficulty to kill off the top due to a combination of weight and falling speed - See My analysis on character weights
-The Wolf in that video was fairing over and over and over again. Stale moves have vastly decreased knockback

My Conclusions: Against heavy or fastfalling opponents (Dedede Snake DK and Bowser particularly) if you spam Fair you can absolutely juggle with it. Against most opponents, if you use fair the same amount as you use fsmash, it's a better killer than fsmash. But dsmash is even better than that.

good1 but look at the percents, the stale moves had hardly taken effect + i wasn't showing that it couldnt kill, i was showing that it WAS combo-able and should be used as such, if u don't know that lrn wolf. Secondly assuming we aren't fighting mario on fd in training mode, fsmash is MUCH easier to hit with + easier to punish someone off the ledge because the way they come back to the stage is easier to control rather than verticle, gratz on the math tho

oh yeah and lol@zeldas sibe-b > wolfs laser, i guess if we only play new pork (fyi we don't) no stage is big enough for zeldas sibe-b to be mroe effective than wolfs laser at projectile spam, never approach zelda ur laser will always win

 

[Darkest]

Anyone have any ideas/tips for fighting against wario..I always seem to get caught by his edge guard at low percents or his fsmash when my dsmash gets shielded.

 

[Bocks]

u got decent priority vs wario, just be patient with ur fsmash + hes really easy to edge guard, no matter what he does to get back to the stage tis nothin a bair cant handle, as for his fmsash, just play by experience, it wont happen forever ull get used to it / find way around it, it's got horrible range i for one never find myself caught in it; grounddodge > wario fsmash

edit = bair

 

[Bocks]

I'm afraid you're wrong, and your arguments are flawed. Here's why.

With no DI, no stale moves against a Mario standing in the middle of Final Destination, Fair kills off the top at 143% and no lower. That's not even an airborne opponent! In the same test, Fsmash kills to the sidewall (not the side-bottom diagonal wall) at 151% and no lower. It's easy to see which number is lower, but you make some arguments refuting this so I'll rebut those as well.

DI doesn't work the way you think it does. If a move hits you straight up and you DI straight down, you're not saving yourself at all. Only perpendicular DI is counted. If a move is hitting you straight up, you can save yourself by DIing to the SIDE. Try it against something like a marth upthrow or something else that hits close to straight up in training mode at high percent. It sounds counterintuitive but it's been proven. I didn't know about this until recently. If you don't DI perpendicularly, the game does something akin to vector addition to apply the perpendicular portion of the DI. As in, DI works ok if a hit sends you up and to the right and you DI straight to the left. This makes the move send you less right and more up, but you can make it send you further up and even less to the right by DIing up and left instead of straight left. Also, I'm only referring to DIing in a single direction, not any crazy triangle DI. That's beyond my skill level.

As to the video footage posted, there are three reasons this doesn't prove anything:
-The Snake wasn't at a killable percent
-Snake is second only to Dedede in difficulty to kill off the top due to a combination of weight and falling speed - See My analysis on character weights
-The Wolf in that video was fairing over and over and over again. Stale moves have vastly decreased knockback

My Conclusions: Against heavy or fastfalling opponents (Dedede Snake DK and Bowser particularly) if you spam Fair you can absolutely juggle with it. Against most opponents, if you use fair the same amount as you use fsmash, it's a better killer than fsmash. But dsmash is even better than that.

whoah whoah whoah i just tested this vs mario, at 143% DIing down wolfs Fair hardly sends u off the screen, doesnt nearly kill u even without stale moves (they don't apply in training mode) but uh.. what? verticle DI is out? test it? u tested it? **** u had me doubting DI n everything, and that was WITHOUT an air dodge which further slows u down, but actually why am i arguing? we're assuming we fight mario in training mode right? then ya fair is def better kill move, ive had more kills with fair than fsmash for sure lol@noobs that use fsmash when fair is clearly more effective

 

[Darkest]

u got decent priority vs wario, just be patient with ur fsmash + hes really easy to edge guard, no matter what he does to get back to the stage tis nothin a bair cant handle, as for his fmsash, just play by experience, it wont happen forever ull get used to it / find way around it, it's got horrible range i for one never find myself caught in it; grounddodge > wario fsmash

edit = bair

Im pretty sure they can use the super armor frames of the side b to get back onto the stage.

 

[Bocks]

Im pretty sure they can use the super armor frames of the side b to get back onto the stage.

doesn't last that long, i don't knwo my bro plays wario i've lrned to time it, also hes one of the few chars u can dair consistently especially when hes on his bike / uses his up-b (has no priority)

 

[Drack]

DI changes the direction you are knocked in, not the distance you're knocked. That's why it's called Directional Influence. DIing down a hit that sends you up won't change the direction. Vertical DI isn't "out" - if you get hit horizontally you can make the hit go further up or down instead of to the side. But DIing in the exact opposite direction you're going isnt going to do much of anything. The reason you can survive longer is that you're sort of fastfalling - ie moving through the air. DI and air mobility are 2 different things. DI happens as you get hit, air mobility happens all the time you're off the ground. I should have said to best survive a pure vertical hit, DI the hit to the side then hold down.

Also, air dodge does not cancel any momentum. The video "proving" it did looked as though it did because of stale moves. The CPUs airdodge after getting hit so you can't combo them as well, not to cancel momentum.

Comboing with fairs is a pretty terrible idea unless your opponent keeps jumping into them. You'll just get shieldgrabbed or just plain punished as Wolf takes forever to get up off the ground after your attack.

A good player will punish both fairs and fsmashes. It's not terribly hard to predict & punish, and both of them have enough time for the opponent to do something before you can do anything else.