Social Dr. Mario Social Thread - Witches? Dragons?...I've seen worse walk into my office.

[mangamusicfan]

Im trying to main the doc its going pretty good so far.
So i will be here more from now on =)

 

[yoyowoodchuckguy]

Just gonna drop something in here maybe for experimentation, but has anyone tried edgeguarding with Nair by throwing it out near the ledge, like, ledgedrop, Nair, to prevent people from snapping thanks to Nair being a reverse sex kick making the timing actually easy? I've theorized it working but does it seem applicable for the hungry people who wanna ledgesnap?

(I have a GIF coming out today that will blow the minds of many, probably my best moment online period with this character)

I do use the Nair occasionally for edgeguarding, though it's a bit different than what you described. If they're hanging on the ledge, just throwing out a SH Nair is an interesting mind game tactic. That nair stays out a long time, so people will sometimes mis-judge its end-lag and have their get up option beaten by the Nair.

 

[HeroMystic]

So last night's tourney made me realize my Mario is still way better than my Doc. I still need to practice with him.

That said, things are looking bleak for Doc in a tournament setting. I only went Mario for my tourney brackets (got 13th place!) but I played Doc in a few friendlies, and a fellow Doc player used him for a number of tournament matches. Usually, it'd end up with his Doc barely winning or barely losing, then switching to Mario and taking a commanding lead each match (he got 4th place btw). Doc is a powerful hitter, but the lack of mobility and chasing down opponents seem to really matter that much when taking on other characters since his range is bad.

So for now I'll just be regulating Doc as a counterpick character. I feel whenever Mario has to trade hits with someone, having Doc is better since he has the stronger damage.

Here are some MUs I'd like to practice, or have some knowledge bombs from the lovely Doc mains here.

-Kirby
-Lil'Mac (a good one, not a For Glory one)
-Sonic
-ZSS
-Yoshi

Any help with any of these characters would be great. I would especially like some help with Kirby and Lil'Mac.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Keep in mind the only Doc I know of being successful at tournaments was M@v and he used Down+B a lot to beat out moves it shouldn't have. I think Docs don't do this a whole ton which is really holding him back. I don't think he's solely a counterpick character so much as he's a much different character than Mario and this meta is favoring aggressive characters right now.

For the record Dr. Mario shouldn't try and chase people. Just throw pills until they stop running away, eventually they'll come to him. I don't think he's hopeless in tournament I just think people aren't really squeezing the best out of him atm.

As for those MUs, my only tip for Sonic is that Down+B beats Spindash consistently, which is hilarious. In fact, as a blanket tip for Doc, use Down-B a lot. It beats basically everything, it's absurd. If they throw high priority stuff at you you can use it to beat it.

 

[Saikyoshi]

My competence with Doc is on a narrow thread. Against any Ness I see (and I see a lot of Ness with that zero-to-death grab setup or dash attack setup), I have to rely on hoping the opponent doesn't know that the Megavitamins were programmed as the wrong type of projectile. Spamming them is all I can do to try to make sure that they don't even get in one grab or dash attack, and if they figure out that PSI Magnet works against it, well...

(By the way, I only panic like this against Ness. I can do other matchups more or less without resorting to spam...)

 

[KenMeister]

Keep in mind the only Doc I know of being successful at tournaments was M@v and he used Down+B a lot to beat out moves it shouldn't have. I think Docs don't do this a whole ton which is really holding him back. I don't think he's solely a counterpick character so much as he's a much different character than Mario and this meta is favoring aggressive characters right now.

For the record Dr. Mario shouldn't try and chase people. Just throw pills until they stop running away, eventually they'll come to him. I don't think he's hopeless in tournament I just think people aren't really squeezing the best out of him atm.

As for those MUs, my only tip for Sonic is that Down+B beats Spindash consistently, which is hilarious. In fact, as a blanket tip for Doc, use Down-B a lot. It beats basically everything, it's absurd. If they throw high priority stuff at you you can use it to beat it.

Yeah, IKR? DownB is extremely underrated IMO. It's gotten me out of combos, juggles, thrown people off when they try to edgeguard me (as in recklessly getting hit by nado), and I've beaten moves all together thrown against it. It also makes for a fairly good OoS option when mixing it up with upB and nair.

 

[meleebrawler]

My competence with Doc is on a narrow thread. Against any Ness I see (and I see a lot of Ness with that zero-to-death grab setup or dash attack setup), I have to rely on hoping the opponent doesn't know that the Megavitamins were programmed as the wrong type of projectile. Spamming them is all I can do to try to make sure that they don't even get in one grab or dash attack, and if they figure out that PSI Magnet works against it, well...

(By the way, I only panic like this against Ness. I can do other matchups more or less without resorting to spam...)

Are you talking about Melee? Megavitamins are
physical in this game. You saying PSI Magnet absorbs
them anyway?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Are you talking about Melee? Megavitamins are
physical in this game. You saying PSI Magnet absorbs
them anyway?

I thought it was the other way around? Physical in Melee but energy here?

 

[KenMeister]

I thought it was the other way around? Physical in Melee but energy here?

Yeah, SmashWiki has it confirmed that they're physical now. Spam all the pills you want against G&W and Ness I guess. lol

 

[Saikyoshi]

Yeah, SmashWiki has it confirmed that they're physical now. Spam all the pills you want against G&W and Ness I guess. lol

Yeah, that's a weight off my shoulders. I just wish I didn't have to resort to it. That grab, though...

 

[KenMeister]

Yeah, that's a weight off my shoulders. I just wish I didn't have to resort to it. That grab, though...

G&W shouldn't be that big of a problem though since his up-close game is pretty laggy, and his jab is stupid easy to DI out of and punish. Go aggro on him. Ness' up-close game on the other hand....yeah. lol

 

[UltimateXsniper]

People really underestimate the power of the tornado. You can really mix things up just by controlling the vertical part of the tornado. You can even dodge a projectile with the right timing and come back down to hit them with it's finishing move. People really don't expect a tornado move going up and down a couple times. Recovery with it works like a charm and you can even come back up and get hits off as well. It also can kill pretty decently.

The tornado in this game is way much better than it has ever been in other smash games in my opinion.

Now enough about Doc's god like tornado abilities, can I also bring up his cape? Sure it has no recovery abilities at all now but it is longer than Mario's cape, which makes eedge guarding with it easier. It's mostly because they are flipped and will move towards the other direction. You don't need no fludd to slightly push them back (which honestly doesn't work well in my opinion and sometimes they can go high up and easily return to the stage).

Let's not forget his smashes are no joke. You can just feel the power whenever your opponent leaves himself open for a smash attack.

His air attacks is nice as well. Sure he can't jump as high as mario but his attacks in the air is nice. Fair can give a lot a knock back and same goes for his bair. Dair is a nice way to get in with people.

Super jump punch is different from what it was in melee. You can really send people flying if you get the sweet spot with it.

His pills are very bouncy. Use that as an advantage. Don't be afraid to think you use too much of it. You can use it to get in with people. Once they get hit you can take advantage of it if you follow the pill.

Just in general people really seem to underestimate Doc.

 

[Kisatamura]

Most people don't know the matchup, and especially the power of Dr. Tornado. If your opponent doesn't respect your Tornado you're gonna be able to get free hits on them if they try to beat it out up close. His cape has less horizontal range I think..

 

[TTTTTsd]

Most people don't know the matchup, and especially the power of Dr. Tornado. If your opponent doesn't respect your Tornado you're gonna be able to get free hits on them if they try to beat it out up close. His cape has less horizontal range I think..

Every time I start to think "Man this character is just awful" I go in and play him and reinvent my mentality. However I think Down-B will prevent my mind from ever changing again. Doc Tornado is legitimately his best move now from my experience, it's SOOO good. Why did Sakurai even give it that kind of priority?

I guess it was actually designed with Free For All in mind, cause before the Tornado moves didn't really do their job well (I imagine they were supposed to be "Get off me" moves for groups of people) so Sakurai was like "I'm gonna juice it up, give it real good priority, and give it CRAZY knockback" because if the last hit of Doc Nado did like, 6 or 7%, the KB would be insane. Hell, it already is insane! That knockback growth is the exact same as Falco's BAIR. If it had anywhere near the damage Falco's did it would hit like a bazooka on AND off-stage.

Looking at the game dump it's 80 Base Knockback and a knockback growth of 130. On-stage it won't kill for a long time but it can literally snag edgeguard kills at percents as low as like, 80, against middleweights and a lot of lightweights. It is INCREDIBLY strong offstage and likely beats a lot of recovery moves. If you know where they goin and you Nado they can't even airdodge if you follow them right because of how long the move is active.

Crazy, just CRAZY how much this move makes this character who he is right now. If Doc Nado was not this good he would probably be really bad. It's not a win button or anything but I guarantee if more people who played Doc used this move for more than just recovery he'd be doing way better than he is right now. As a side note, the other great part about Tornado is it's not even slow to come out. It comes out on Frame 10 which, while not insanely fast, is a very respectable speed if you throw it out on a read. I think this combined with pills gives Doc a large amount of pace control if he plays his cards right.

 

[HeroMystic]

Bit of testing here.

Looks like Doc Nado can kill Bowser, the heaviest character in the game, at roughly 70% as an edgeguard, and Doc can easily recover back to the stage with just his second jump.

70%, no rage, on the heaviest character in the game.

Let that sink in.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Bit of testing here.

Looks like Doc Nado can kill Bowser, the heaviest character in the game, at roughly 70% as an edgeguard, and Doc can easily recover back to the stage with just his second jump.

70%, no rage, on the heaviest character in the game.

Let that sink in.

As I said, that move hits like a BAZOOKA. It is an atom bomb of an edgeguard that rivals Falco's Bair, but then you factor in its active time and go WOWWWW.

This move is why this character is not bad. It is legitimately his best move, that's insane. Well I'm definitely seeing an improvement in my Doc play with this move for sure, it's definitely not placebo at this point.

 

[HeroMystic]

Tested priority with Doc and Luigi's Nados.

They come out on the exact same frame, and they clank when moving into each other. Doc's Nado beats Luigi's Nado when Luigi is above him (unless Luigi is directly spaced over Doc's head), and it's the same vise versa (though Doc and Luigi trades hits when Doc is directly above Luigi's head).

Luigi has a bit more vertical range, otherwise it seems in terms of priority they're the exact same, which is great news.

I'm gonna be practicing Doc a lot more. He is legitimately better than Mario at edgeguarding now.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Tested priority with Doc and Luigi's Nados.

They come out on the exact same frame, and they clank when moving into each other. Doc's Nado beats Luigi's Nado when Luigi is above him (unless Luigi is directly spaced over Doc's head), and it's the same vise versa (though Doc and Luigi trades hits when Doc is directly above Luigi's head).

Luigi has a bit more vertical range, otherwise it seems in terms of priority they're the exact same, which is great news.

I'm gonna be practicing Doc a lot more. He is legitimately better than Mario at edgeguarding now.

I...can definitely see why he is. I think this move is what makes this character not bad, and I think we've finally figured out the strongest aspect of Nado. Not even its absurd Priority, but its....absurd POWER.

I'm so glad we spitballed the idea of using Nado as an edgeguard and experimented from there, this finding is INCREDIBLE for Doc's potential.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I also find it really useful as a delay attack. I catch people trying to net me with an anticipated punish off-guard with it all the time.

 

[warionumbah2]

On certain stages wall jumping is a literal must for recovering. You don't have to worry about spikes since his Up B comes out stupidly fast.

The fact that some of his moves have the same frame data as Mario is insane(i think 2 or 3 moves are slower than Mario's).

 

[Saikyoshi]

On certain stages wall jumping is a literal must for recovering. You don't have to worry about spikes since his Up B comes out stupidly fast.

The fact that some of his moves have the same frame data as Mario is insane(i think 2 or 3 moves are slower than Mario's).

That makes sense. That's probably why he was considered, like /; no animation-adjusting for most things, because smooth animations are the most labor-intensive part of making a character. Just tweaking a few attributes and a couple special moves to make him play totally differently.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I guess that whole "Not worth the power trade off" discussion's gonna go a little south if Doc Tornado is anything to go by as clearly Dr. Mario has replaced his arms with rocket powered pistons and he is hellbent on destroying anyone who gets in the way of his spin.

 

[TTTTTsd]

On certain stages wall jumping is a literal must for recovering. You don't have to worry about spikes since his Up B comes out stupidly fast.

The fact that some of his moves have the same frame data as Mario is insane(i think 2 or 3 moves are slower than Mario's).

Only his Dair has more startup time than Mario. He's only slower in landing lag otherwise as far as frame data and not mobility goes. His jabs also connect slower but still combo, but his jab1 comes out as fast as Mario's too.

 

[Kisatamura]

I have more gifs of using the Tornado for edgeguarding if they're needed..

 

[HeroMystic]

Any able to test Tornado's kill power with DI? I imagine it affect it wouldn't affect it that badly.

 

[Dobbston]

Frame canceling Fair can at least combo into Up B; Fair to Up B (29 dmg) combos on Fox at 5 percent but I think you have to use the frame canceling trick.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I have more gifs of using the Tornado for edgeguarding if they're needed..

Huh. So I HAVE been doing it wrong... I'd just been chasing opponents offstage by rising (and usually missing).

 

[Dobbston]

Just got Uthrow to combo into Fair on Fox at 38 percent.

 

[HeroMystic]

You can do a lot of janky stuff on Fox. The hard part is catching him.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Fox is legit the most free to combos from each Mario as I've noticed. Hell Mario can D-Throw -> Running USmash him at certain %s.

Also @ Saikyoshi you can chase offstage and catch them with the rising tornado, it's all about reading their recovery. As long as you know what they gon do, you can block it and probably kill them at any respectably high %. There's no real "right" way to edgeguard with it, you just gotta know where they're gonna be.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Fox is legit the most free to combos from each Mario as I've noticed. Hell Mario can D-Throw -> Running USmash him at certain %s.

Also @ Saikyoshi you can chase offstage and catch them with the rising tornado, it's all about reading their recovery. As long as you know what they gon do, you can block it and probably kill them at any respectably high %. There's no real "right" way to edgeguard with it, you just gotta know where they're gonna be.

I read that wrong. But let's collectively make sure that's what our victims start calling the Doc after we're through with them. >:-)

 

[Dobbston]

Fox is legit the most free to combos from each Mario as I've noticed. Hell Mario can D-Throw -> Running USmash him at certain %s.

Yeah, even Dr. Mario's Fthrow can combo into Up B on Fox at 0 percent.



Edit:

On certain stages wall jumping is a literal must for recovering. You don't have to worry about spikes since his Up B comes out stupidly fast.

The fact that some of his moves have the same frame data as Mario is insane(i think 2 or 3 moves are slower than Mario's).

Dr. Mario is starting to remind me of Heihachi Mishima from Tekken; Heihachi's animations seem slower and clunkier than other Mishimas but in reality his frame data is just as fast and yet deals more damage off standard attacks.

 

[STR]

Hell Doc fans, just got a Wii U and Smash and got my ass handed to me all night lol. Figured I needed to study up on my favorite character so I came here.

 

[Macchiato]

Someone should make a moveset data thread. We NEED one

 

[Jaguar360]

Someone should make a moveset data thread. We NEED one

Wow, you do get around don't you?
I second that a moveset data thread would be great.

 

[Macchiato]

Wow, you do get around don't you?
I second that a moveset data thread would be great.

These boards are like dead. Idk if anyone knows how to get moveset data. The only people I know who can are BJN39 and Indigo Jeans

 

[HeroMystic]

To be fair, the majority of boards don't get a lot of traffic at the moment.

 

[Macchiato]

So I'm making the moveset data thread and it's WIP
http://smashboards.com/threads/prescriptions-papers-docs-moveset-data-wip.387252/

 

[Macchiato]

Sorry but I had to share this. Ok if there is Pikmin sticking to you. Using super sheet will kill the Pikmin right away. You can also reflect olimars smashes.

 

[warionumbah2]

2312 Custom Doc is insane. He can literally force opponents to approach with fast capsule matchups such as Luigi is automatically in his favour with this move alone, adding insult to injury his Breezy sheet can gimp pretty much every character other than teleporters.

Played a Marth on FD, he demolished me with fairs and me being shocked forgot to use my soaring tornado and died. Then he proceeded to wall me out preventing me from approaching then i fired my pill and he stopped moving and taunted. xD

He knew it was over for him, anyway on the final stock i got him off stage using bair then i caped him twice and he died. When customs become a thing Doc will be above Mario, he doesn't need to approach since his projectile comes out so fast and of course Doc has insane combo's such as dtilt(love this move) --> grab --> down throw ---> uair ---> U-Smash ---> bair(only if they DI behind you. That's 48%.

I replace the down special because i prefer going deep with the cape which makes up for the loss of our high priority edge guard tool, shockingly enough the final animation of Soaring Tornado has a hitbox which seems to have the same KB as default Dr tornado. I saved the match luckily, it was on the right ledge of that fire emblem stage from brawl the last hit killed Base Shulk at 70% and i had no rage since i was at 46%.

So what we have here is a Mario that does more damage, more reliable follow ups, can go in deep with the ultimate gimp tool, projectile that forces approach(basically danger zone since its Doc),more kill options and OOS super jump punch(like im ditching this move).

He's defo become my secondary now for my MK, the amount of MU's that are in his favour is disgusting.

tl;dr Dr Mario with customs is what he should've been he feels so complete.