Dr. Mario Moveset Analysis

[Marxally]

Make your parents happy and become a Dr. (at least in Smash...)

 

[Wild Woody]

Am i wrong, or does his F-air launch the enemy diagonally upwards, instead of straight down?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Beautiful he has marios move set before the fluud came in.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

He has the Mario move set before brawl

Just that simple

The only way to use normal mario now is to use the custom move that makes the fluud do damage now.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Am i wrong, or does his F-air launch the enemy diagonally upwards, instead of straight down?

Yeah, just like in Melee.

 

[WarioJim]

Mario has kill power. His F, U, and D smashes all kill, so does his D-special at high percentages (AKA over 200%) as does his u-tilt, and his Fair is a meteor smash.

For Mario, D-Special would mean... F.L.U.D.D, right? It's a good recovery gimper, but it has kill power?

As long as Doc has actual kill power and a better projectile he'll be better.

First, that depends on what you mean by "better" projectile. It's damage has been nerfed. I personally think that the trajectory it bounces at is wonkier than the Fireball.

Second, he has some buffs, sure, but a lot of the Doc's stuff has been nerfed in the damage department. So even if his attacks are high knockback, he can't rack it up very easily.
I think the biggest problems with Dr. Mario is his range isn't as good and he doesn't have as good of a recovery (No, Dr. Tornado isn't helping right now).

I think that when people unlock the Doc, they shouldn't just completely move to him and (almost) NEVER play Mario again That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. At least mix up which you play now and again.

 

[Ridles the Space Pirate]

Mario has always been my main, but now that the doctor gives me my Mario tornado back, I will be much more effective.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

I can't wait for a mod to Sm4sh that makes every character some form of Doc.

 

[Misinko]

For Mario, D-Special would mean... F.L.U.D.D, right? It's a good recovery gimper, but it has kill power?

Sorry, I was talking about the Mario Tornado. You gotta rember, I'm a Melee and PM player, I don't pay attention to Brawl.

 

[Mr.Random]

For Mario, D-Special would mean... F.L.U.D.D, right? It's a good recovery gimper, but it has kill power?


First, that depends on what you mean by "better" projectile. It's damage has been nerfed. I personally think that the trajectory it bounces at is wonkier than the Fireball.

Second, he has some buffs, sure, but a lot of the Doc's stuff has been nerfed in the damage department. So even if his attacks are high knockback, he can't rack it up very easily.
I think the biggest problems with Dr. Mario is his range isn't as good and he doesn't have as good of a recovery (No, Dr. Tornado isn't helping right now).

I think that when people unlock the Doc, they shouldn't just completely move to him and (almost) NEVER play Mario again That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. At least mix up which you play now and again.

Calling it now. Doc WILL be better. His kill moves and combos are easy as hell if you are good at the game. Online it is hard to use the tornado to recover because of lag but it goes at a decent height and stalls better than Mario's cape, it also kills at 120 fresh. I'm 2nd best Doc in CFL Melee and the 3rd best Mario in PM behind Seibrik and MVD.

 

[Misinko]

I think that when people unlock the Doc, they shouldn't just completely move to him and (almost) NEVER play Mario again That's a narrow-minded way of thinking. At least mix up which you play now and again.

So, because people don't like the changes made to Mario, and because they've been provided an arguably better alternative that eliminates the changes they don't like, they SHOULDN'T play the alternative exclusively, because that's "narrow-minded"? LOGIC!

 

[Bushando64]

I'm not sure if Dr. Mario should have returned for this new installment. Personally, I would've like to have seen FLUDD as a Final Smash or something--similar to Luigi's Poltergust 3000--and instead just have Dr. Mario as alternate costumes for Mario. I love how Mario plays in the 3DS demo and I'm hoping that Dr. Mario plays almost exactly the same but without FLUDD.

I'm not gonna cry about his inclusion, though, since there are 40+ other characters to choose from.

 

[WarioJim]

Calling it now. Doc WILL be better. His kill moves and combos are easy as hell if you are good at the game. Online it is hard to use the tornado to recover because of lag but it goes at a decent height and stalls better than Mario's cape, it also kills at 120 fresh. I'm 2nd best Doc in CFL Melee and the 3rd best Mario in PM behind Seibrik and MVD.

...Really now? On the internet, that isn't the kind of thing you should be saying, if it's false.

I can't find your username anywhere to do with the Doc or Mario, beside this thread.

What if I think leaving Mario to never be played because Doc is in, IS wrong.
Tell me, what do you think makes Dr. Mario better than Mario. Do this without mentioning F.L.U.D.D. They both have there different uses.

EDIT: here is an apology from my box in advance. I'm aware I'm being, uh, aggressive I guess.

 

[WarioJim]

So, because people don't like the changes made to Mario, and because they've been provided an arguably better alternative that eliminates the changes they don't like, they SHOULDN'T play the alternative exclusively, because that's "narrow-minded"? LOGIC!

WOAH! Wait... what? That's just uncalled for. *oh... I should never have said anything...*

My message is less "DON'T PLAY DOCTOR MARIO!" and more "TAKE TIME TO PLAY MARIO!".
If that wasn't the message you got, then the message was miscommunicated. I have the feeling I'll need a supply full of apologies before being done with this thread... like above.

 

[Mr.Random]

...Really now? On the internet, that isn't the kind of thing you should be saying, if it's false.

I can't find your username anywhere to do with the Doc or Mario, beside this thread.

What if I think leaving Mario to never be played because Doc is in, IS wrong.
Tell me, what do you think makes Dr. Mario better than Mario. Do this without mentioning F.L.U.D.D. They both have there different uses.

EDIT: here is an apology from my box in advance. I'm aware I'm being, uh, aggressive I guess.

My tag is Rematch. I was on stream yesterday during the game academy 5 (and other game academies as well).

 

[!BSP]

The Tornado really didn't accomplish much for the character. I don't understand all the excitement behind it returning.

That being said, I'm still going to give Doc a shot because of the Kobe mostly. However, I think a lot of people are sleeping on FLUDD.

 

[Dustiletto]

Yeah the final smash is a drug induced colorinfused flustercuck. And I like it.

Btw what is your favourite alt you have seen so far? I always liked the green doc!

I was never fond of his Green alt in Melee/PM, too much of a faded Lime color for my tastes, but I'm LOVING the shade of green they went with this time around. Dunno if I'll use it over based Black Doc though.

Also Green Doc has a Purple Necktie, and you know what that means....

 

[Misinko]

WOAH! Wait... what? That's just uncalled for. *oh... I should never have said anything...*

My message is less "DON'T PLAY DOCTOR MARIO!" and more "TAKE TIME TO PLAY MARIO!".
If that wasn't the message you got, then the message was miscommunicated. I have the feeling I'll need a supply full of apologies before being done with this thread... like above.

I have taken the time to play Mario in Brawl, and I didn't like him. I didn't like the F.L.U.D.D, and I didn't like his Dair. Dr. Mario puts the stuff I like back in. I'm not playing Mario with the F.L.U.D.D because it's useless. I don't see why you have an issue with people playing Dr. Mario over Mario. Let people play who they want

 

[MudkipUniverse]

so because mario doesn't have the tornado anymore doesn't that make him a clone of

No.

 

[WarioJim]

I have taken the time to play Mario in Brawl, and I didn't like him. I didn't like the F.L.U.D.D, and I didn't like his Dair. Dr. Mario puts the stuff I like back in. I'm not playing Mario with the F.L.U.D.D because it's useless. I don't see why you have an issue with people playing Dr. Mario over Mario. Let people play who they want

The only thing I can say to that is Smash 4 Mario is not like Brawl Mario. Yes, his moves are the same, but after being rebalanced, Mario is now a combo monster. I'd place Dr. Mario in the 'bruiser' department.

The issue I have is too many people are just ignoring Mario when they also have Doc. It's an issue because they're basically never giving regular Mario a chance, when they MAY in-fact prefer him to the Doc. Give Smash 4 Mario a chance is my mind-set.

I don't know why my vendetta against the good Doctor is so big. It pesters me how a clone of a character, Mario of all characters, is supposedly better than the original, at least from what the community says (although I keep possible balance patches in mind).

Will I never play Dr. Mario? Hell no, of course I'll try him out. I'll just play Mario most of the time though. I'll show you fools the true power of F.L.U.D.D!!!

 

[Une]

I will never understand why people loved the Tornado so much. It was a garbage move. It's only use in Melee was as a mediocre recovery move. FLUDD at least was unique. Keep that **** as Mario's Dair, that's all it deserves to be.

 

[Misinko]

Do you think I don't know of Mario's combo capability? Buddy, I've played Mario since Melee. I know his combos. I know quite a few 3-hit KO combos, and I can pull off a couple zero-to-death combos with Mario. I know how to combo with Mario like I know the back of my hand. The good Dr. still has quite a bit of combo capability himself, and he's more powerful to boot.

People are ignoring regular Mario because his Down-Special and Dair suck. Melee's where better, and people show that by basically boycotting Mario in Brawl. I'm with them. I'll give Mario a chance, because he's one of the few characters in the Smash 4 demo, but I'll grantee you I'll drop him as soon as I get my hands on the Doc.

Do you know why Dr. Mario is considered to be better than regular Mario? Better kill tactics, and he's more powerful. The tradeoff is that he's slower, and lacks a wall jump. That's it. He's higher on the tier list for a reason. His Nair is better, his Fair is better, his F-smash is better, his throws are better, his projectile is better, his punish game is better, and his damage is better. Overall, he's just a better Mario.

Is that a challenge? Oh-hoy boy, I hope you have the brasses to back that statement up. Please tell me your 3DS friend code is in the Friend code forum. I swear, you're gonna be the first guy I fight online.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Melee Mario's F-smash is WAY better than Doc's and makes his matchups against Marth and Sheik more manageable in that game. Also Mario's D-throw is better than Doc's in Melee, which again makes his matchup against someone like Sheik less unfavorable. So no, he's not actually outclassed by Doc. He has matchups where a better D-throw and a better F-smash actually matter, because it means his chaingrabs are more punishing, and he has better spacing options. Doc does do better against space animals though, so in terms of matchup numbers, that makes him slightly more valuable.

SSB4 Mario primarily has a better D-throw, D-air (for SHIELD PRESSURE), and a better N-air for edgeguarding than Doc. Yeah, Doc's additional KO moves probably will give him the edge, but some of your information is flat out incorrect.

 

[Spinosaurus]

This board is really sleeping on Mario.

 

[Misinko]

Melee Mario's F-smash is WAY better than Doc's and makes his matchups against Marth and Sheik more manageable in that game. Also Mario's D-throw is better than Doc's in Melee, which again makes his matchup against someone like Sheik less unfavorable. So no, he's not actually outclassed by Doc. He has matchups where a better D-throw and a better F-smash actually matter, because it means his chaingrabs are more punishing, and he has better spacing options. Doc does do better against space animals though, so in terms of matchup numbers, that makes him slightly more valuable.

SSB4 Mario primarily has a better D-throw, D-air (for SHIELD PRESSURE), and a better N-air for edgeguarding than Doc. Yeah, Doc's additional KO moves probably will give him the edge, but some of your information is flat out incorrect.

Doc's F-Smash can KO below below 100%, hence why I consider it better. In general, Doc's throws are better than Mario's in Melee. While Mario may be better against certain characters, Dr. Mario is overall a better character.

And his D-air is better for shield pressure? Dr. Mario can do the exact same move on the ground as well as the air, which is why everyone is so exited for it's return. It's more universal, Nair is better for killing, and his Bair is better for edge guarding as the Doc.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Melee Doc's F-smash is nearly impossible to land competitively except at extremely low damage building percents, so Doc F-smash killing people at 80% is pretty irrelevant when there's virtually no way to set that up against good DI EXCEPT if you get a hard read on space animals. More important is Doc's superior D-smash which Doc has more reliable combos or setups into.

Melee Mario F-smash actually is strong in footsies meaning he can viably challenge Marth's spacing. It's also MUCH more viable to combo into out of D-throw, and again, Mario's throws minus B-throw are better than Doc's. Mario's D-throw and U-throw are noticeably better for combos and juggles because they have less knockback growth. Mario can almost 0-death Sheik off a grab, and his KO setups into F-smash and U-smash from D-throw are more reliable than Doc's. Mario also chaingrabs space animals and Falcon longer than Doc with U-throw, though Doc does better vs space animals mostly because D-throw D-smash kills earlier.

Doc Tornado is a really, really, really bad move in SSB4. Has no range, no mobility, and is massively unsafe on block. Might as well D-smash or Up-B instead. Unless something changed, FLUDD is also pretty bad, but at least it has utility for edgeguards. Yeah you have Tornado recovery, which to be frank is pretty minor when edgehogging is universally out of the game. Mario Tornado in contrast is REALLY safe on block and leads to mixups where you can threaten to chain into another aerial immediately or land and do other moves.

I haven't seen how much knockback the late hit on Doc's N-air does, but it's not really a better KO move when the only time you would land it anyway is offstage, where the weaker knockback on Mario's late N-air is potentially more valuable for punishing really low recoveries via gimping. Yes, Doc gets some better punishes on high recoveries with B-air, but low recoveries are the ones that are more difficult and important to edgeguard in this game due to how much safer they are overall, which Mario does have some better tools for including both the weak hit of his N-air and his Cape which still helps Mario float in the air somewhat, while Doc's really doesn't do anything for him in the air.

Again, I'm not arguing against Doc likely being better overall. What I am arguing is that a lot of your observations are just flat out incorrect.

 

[PikaSamus]

Already exists: http://smashboards.com/threads/custom-move-discussion.367261/

 

[StarLight42]

Touche.

I would also accept it being Mewtwo in disguise.

Get out of the Dr. Mario forums please.

Oh wait, he's banned.

 

[Chandeelure]

Maybe the "L" Pill from Dr. Luigi?

 

[gamer8]

I believe he has for the most part about the same custom moves as Mario, except for his down b (don't know if those are similar to Luigi's). I just remember seeing the giant, slow moving pill in gema's stream a couple of nights ago. I think this applies for all 3 of the new clones, Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit.

 

[GmanSir]

My guesses:

B: Giant Pill, L Pill
Side B: Shocking Super Sheet, Gust Super Sheet
Up B: Shocking Jump Punch, Higher Jump Punch
Down B: Stronger Dr. Tornado, Shocking Dr. Tornado

 

[GmanSir]

That I should thank him for giving me my daily Megavitamins?

 

[ShyGuy16]

Because Dr. Mario 64 was rad. Not to mention the fact that every time I get a sweet kill I can yell "IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?!?" The dude is just set up for sweet one liners in a way no other Smasher is.

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

The only thing regular Mario has that I prefer is the front-air attack's trajectory. In every other way, as far as practice and presentation, it's Doc all the way for this guy.

 

[Mr.Random]

I will never understand why people loved the Tornado so much. It was a garbage move. It's only use in Melee was as a mediocre recovery move. FLUDD at least was unique. Keep that **** as Mario's Dair, that's all it deserves to be.

We love tornado only because fludd was implemented poorly and does jack ****. Seriously it is outclassed by cape and b-air which are safer and don't need to be charged.

 

[Mr.Random]

The only thing I can say to that is Smash 4 Mario is not like Brawl Mario. Yes, his moves are the same, but after being rebalanced, Mario is now a combo monster. I'd place Dr. Mario in the 'bruiser' department.

The issue I have is too many people are just ignoring Mario when they also have Doc. It's an issue because they're basically never giving regular Mario a chance, when they MAY in-fact prefer him to the Doc. Give Smash 4 Mario a chance is my mind-set.

I don't know why my vendetta against the good Doctor is so big. It pesters me how a clone of a character, Mario of all characters, is supposedly better than the original, at least from what the community says (although I keep possible balance patches in mind).

Will I never play Dr. Mario? Hell no, of course I'll try him out. I'll just play Mario most of the time though. I'll show you fools the true power of F.L.U.D.D!!!

I'll just grab or read your roll while you charge it. Even if you do charge it, it won't do anything b-air and cape can't do. Gotta use the custom move that does damage at least.

 

[!BSP]

^^^
Bair and Cape alone can't kill from near Center stage. They also can't influence recovery decisions while Mario is still on stage.

People are also completely passing over the fact that a charged FLUDD makes shoryuken-esqe moves against mario extremely risky.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I will never understand why people loved the Tornado so much. It was a garbage move. It's only use in Melee was as a mediocre recovery move. FLUDD at least was unique. Keep that **** as Mario's Dair, that's all it deserves to be.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it
-Brawl in a nutshell

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's nuances and weird properties on his aerials coming back are what sold it for me. I always enjoyed his playstyle a lot and thought he was different enough from Mario when you actually look at it from a gameplay and design perspective, which a lot of people DON'T do.

Also his Dair can not only approach but even KILL on the last hit at decent percents apparently. He just sounds really awesome.

Of course the trade off is pretty poor recovery compared to Mario so I don't see them being far apart when it comes to overall strength.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Add on that DAir has a finisher hit(according to someone in the Doc general gameplay thread) that, if it connects, has high KB and can kill at things like 90 PERCENT for some mids and lightweights. That's important.