Double Team vs Tornado

[ksizl4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6itOVIbXJeg

Just showing double team beating tornado while lucario is at high percent

When at low percent it usually just goes through the nado with no one taking damage, it clashes and tornado stops, or theres rare chance of it actually hurting the MK.

Also its very good in the air because even if it doesnt hit the mk, you can punish the landing lag.

enjoy :D

 

[phi1ny3]

As good as this is, this should probably go into "deep discussion", or the brainstorm thread.

I dunno if I should lock this though, it's helpful discussion though.

Better yet, we could turn this into "what uses does DT have" thread I guess.

RDT is useful though against Falco/Pit, especially the first move of the match.

Main reason? What is the first move a falco or Pit is going to do?

 

[culexus・wau]

Niceeeee.

DT has utility usage in the ditto.

SOMETIMES ITS A GOOD OPTION IF YOU READ LINEAR EDGEGUARDING.

SOMETIMES.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Whoa... DT has increasing priority like AS...

I'll find out the exact percent this works this weekend when I am less tired.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Might be too late for me to try this out and see if I can apply it before my tournament on Saturday.

Still legit and something I'll work on since I think this has applications.

 

[Kitamerby]

Whoa... DT has increasing priority like AS...

I'll find out the exact percent this works this weekend when I am less tired.

You do realize ALL of Lucario's moves have increasing priority?

Priority = damage, bro.

 

[Aurasmash14]

You do realize ALL of Lucario's moves have increasing priority?

Priority = damage, bro.

dash attack.

 

[Kitamerby]

dash attack.

!

 

[iRJi]

Try keeping the mini spam out of the thread, lol.

@Phil: No need to close it.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

You do realize ALL of Lucario's moves have increasing priority?

Priority = damage, bro.

Wait a sec... When did damage equal priority?

Something has to hit Luc's body box that's shooting out the Aura hitbox for it to cling or outprioritze. Aura kinda goes through everything that's attached to his body box. Aura Sphere was the only thing I thought had that increasing priority feature, otherwise I would've set up an extensive research thread.

The only Aura attack that can be ouprioritized by hitting the Aura is the flame in Force Palm.

Luc's specials are weird.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Force palm doesnt count as aura. so it's naturally the only aura attack that doesnt have transcendant priority.

also, when DID damage equal priority? CF's attacks still arent beating anyone else's despite the damage difference.

 

[Kitamerby]

Force palm doesnt count as aura. so it's naturally the only aura attack that doesnt have transcendant priority.

also, when DID damage equal priority? CF's attacks still arent beating anyone else's despite the damage difference.

lol what.

You guys know the rules of priority right?

aerials can only clank with specials.

ground moves can clank with both other ground moves and specials.

specials can clank with ground moves, aerials, and other specials.

For the moves that can clank, the 8% rule applies.

For those that don't, it's based on hitbox/hurtbox disjoint.

Lucario has two attack types for each grounded aura move: the aura hitbox and the hitbox on his body. The aura hitbox does not clank. The hitbox on his body will be able to both clank and beat out other moves. His aerials act like regular aerials in terms of priority and will clank with special moves (such as mach tornado).

 

[D. Disciple]

Also don't forget about disjointed hitboxes.

 

[Kitamerby]

Also don't forget about disjointed hitboxes.

Disjoints follow the same rule. Hence why Sonic's fsmash can clank with Snake's Utilt even though there are obvious disjoint differences.

Obviously, there are some exceptions, such as Marth's SideB or MK's aerials, but for the most part most moves follow those rules.

Projectiles are commonly treated as specials, as well.

 

[Aurasmash14]

what's the 8 percent rule?

 

[Tesh]

Thats surprising, but it doesn't look like it actually hits him out of tornado done at head height. Also looked like he could rise out of harms way just by reacting to double team's startup.

It looked kind of useful for getting from above to below tornado in the air, but doesn't everything beat tornado from above anyway?

 

[HyperEnergy]

what's the 8 percent rule?

If a move does 8% or more damage than another move it will outprioritize that other move (assuming both moves would clank otherwise).

 

[Kitamerby]

Thats surprising, but it doesn't look like it actually hits him out of tornado done at head height. Also looked like he could rise out of harms way just by reacting to double team's startup.

All 5 frames of it?

It looked kind of useful for getting from above to below tornado in the air, but doesn't everything beat tornado from above anyway?

Big misconception. Things beat tornado only if A)They don't touch either of Mach Tornado's huge hitboxes to clank with (such as hitting from above), a huge problem for Lucario due to gigantic hitboxes on aerials, B), are transcendent, C) are able to abuse the 8% rule, or I guess D) are invincible.

In most cases, A-C are not options for an airborne Luc. So, we gotta go for invincibility that DT gives us.

 

[iRJi]

All 5 frames of it?



Big misconception. Things beat tornado only if A)They don't touch either of Mach Tornado's huge hitboxes to clank with (such as hitting from above), a huge problem for Lucario due to gigantic hitboxes on aerials, B), are transcendent, C) are able to abuse the 8% rule, or I guess D) are invincible.

In most cases, A-C are not options for an airborne Luc. So, we gotta go for invincibility that DT gives us.

Wait, Is it really 8% to beat out Nado?

 

[Tesh]

It looks like alot more than 5 frames in the video until the hitbox on double team gets to where metaknight was. I was just referring to the 2nd tornado in the video. From the time double team starts to the time it goes under the tornado, looked like plenty of time to rise out of the way (which he did).

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

This looks really legit. Especially on nubs who spam tornado.

 

[Zeratulfenix]

rise out of the way.

Well, the invincibility is abused to avoid the tornado, which it does well. The higher MK goes, though, the longer he goes into specialfall, which we can definitely take advantage of.