***Does Falco have any bad matchups?***

[Blistering Speed]

Yes, it's another inquisitive thread by me giving the impression that I think Falco is god tier (unintentional but anyway).

I was just wondering if there's a clear consensus on Falco's higher matchups, because I've heard numerous times that Marth, Peach and Jiggs are all even against Falco. If this is so, wouldn't it mean Falco has no disadvantages? Though I could be wrong on those three stated, I've just heard widely fluctuating numbers.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Falco loses to Marth for sure. And has questionable match ups with Peach, Jiggs, and IC's.

 

[Mogwai]

I would say he's at a very slight disadvantage vs. Marth and Jiggs. He's even at worst vs. Peach and ICs. Falco is ridiculous in terms of potential and stuff, but kinda falters in that he gets punished so hard for failing at all.

 

[Tyson651]

i agree with the two posters above me.

its mainly cause these 3 can easily take advantage of falco's recovery.

peach just ***** with dsmash and falco has nothing on that.

marth and jiggs easily gimp falco, so when falco's off the ledge, its gg for that stock. marth got easy chaingrabs, fthrow to dtilt off the stage. jiggs got easy rest combos, bthrow/fthrow or any aerial off the stage.

marth's swipe and jigg's jab/nair intercepts forwardB, falco's upB doesnt do fire damage when hes 'charging' so thats easy to gimp.

i dunno anything about ics, i guess its cause ur lasers are useless lol. and ics' dsmash is gay.

 

[Mogwai]

I personally think Peach is in Falco's favor by a little, but enough people disagree that I usually agree that it's even. Peach can't do much about lasers and platform camping. Just camp the **** out of dair through platforms and eventually you get openings, whereas she doesn't really have anything to approach from below.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Really? Jigglypuff was a surprise, I always thought she would have the disadvantage at the highest level, same as she does with Fox. If you don't let her get the grab (easier said then done, but it's possible) and camp her, what can she do? She has to then rely on her aerial approaches which Falco can deal with.

 

[Mogwai]

the problem with the Jiggs matchup is that you kill her at like 150 with bair, and she kills you with Xair where X is anything @ any percent. Her bair can space against your bair or utilt so eventually she gets hits and they are just game over due to her absurd off stage edgeguarding.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

playign jiggs just sucks in general cuz she can bair camp if she has to.

 

[ranmaru]

Sure, he may or may not have disavantages, but it all depends on the varying skills of both players. :]

 

[Mogwai]

Sure, he may or may not have disavantages, but it all depends on the varying skills of both players. :]

great, thanks for the pointer...

this doesn't mean that discussing matchups is fruitless.

sorry, I really can't stand people bringing player skill into character specific discussions about matchups or how good the character is. Just because being a better player will carry you through bad machups doesn't mean that they aren't bad matchups and shouldn't be discussed.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yah but falco desnt really have that many bad matchups

jiggs and marth like you said but i cant think of really bad matchups

 

[ranmaru]

great, thanks for the pointer...

this doesn't mean that discussing matchups is fruitless.

sorry, I really can't stand people bringing player skill into character specific discussions about matchups or how good the character is. Just because being a better player will carry you through bad machups doesn't mean that they aren't bad matchups and shouldn't be discussed.

Never did I say it shouldn't be discussed, but you are right. :]

But yeah, Falco is a G, haha. Its a challenge for me to fight him, but I enjoy it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

the problem with the Jiggs matchup is that you kill her at like 150 with bair, and she kills you with Xair where X is anything @ any percent.

That is fairly sensible. But take the limit of Xair as X approaches infinity. The "air" becomes negligible, and thus the aerial doesn't connect.



Thus Falco > Jiggs for any X in the domain of f(x) where the function is undefined...

 

[Mogwai]

yah but falco desnt really have that many bad matchups

jiggs and marth like you said but i cant think of really bad matchups

well, there aren't, I just don't like the sentiment of saying "Oh tier list isn't as important as player skill" or "You'd win that matchup if you were better than your opponent." Of course these things are true, but they also don't mean that there isn't merit in discussing how good or bad specific matchups are or in creating tier lists.

 

[Mogwai]

That is fairly sensible. But take the limit of Xair as X approaches infinity. The "air" becomes negligible, and thus the aerial doesn't connect.

the limit as X approaches infinity is pointless due to the fact that it only has 5 discrete values. Your calculus is powerless against me

McFox's browser is lame.

 

[ChivalRuse]

the limit as X approaches infinity is pointless due to the fact that it only has 5 discrete values. Your calculus is powerless against me

McFox's browser is lame.

Browser or Bowser? lol

 

[DtJ Jungle]

mogwai ***** these boards.

 

[Mogwai]

mogwai ***** these boards.

it's not my fault! have you seen how they dress!? they were totally asking for it!



I wish I were a Falco boards mod so that I could clean them up a bit and sticky and unsticky stuff T_T.

 

[ranmaru]

I wish I could play all your Falco's. [lol somehow an n slipped into that word]

Anyways, I do like Falco alot, so if I were to ever switch [actually I wouldn't switch, just main secondly or something], it would be either Falco, Ganon, or Young Link [cuz he's faster then Link haha, I mean I like that he is]

 

[choknater]

IMO His only bad matchup is Peach.

Marth seems even to me, and Jiggs is definitely possible... just gotta space her REALLY well. Fox is even, but really hard on flatter stages like regular Pokemon Stadium and FD. IC's is manageable, just have to space them well, separate them, and not get grabbed. I main IC's and I have lost to some really good Falcos, but have also ***** plenty of Falcos. It's just a matter of keeping laser pressure on them and NOT MISSING your l-cancels (you hit 2 shields so it's harder to cancel.)

Peach can punish mistakes and create more openings than any other character because she has the priority to nullify so many of Falco's approaches. Falco is an offensive character, and it is so hard for him to break through the priority of her dsmashes and very fast aerials that leave few openings. Even laser camping doesn't work since she can maneuver through them and her float cancels give her a great offensive game as well.

It takes a lot of experience to win in this matchup against a great Peach player, but in the end it is an uphill battle. Against a player like Cort or Pink Shinobi, I find it's pretty much impossible.

 

[Blistering Speed]

I would support the idea of you as Falco board moderator, I don't see why not with all these new Melee boards ones.

Can I ask why U Air and the smashes aren't prospective kill moves in the matchup. Will smashes simply not hit a spaced Jigg?

 

[choknater]

Usmash, dtilt, fsmash, uair... I'm sure they would all be great kill moves against Puff, but seeing as how she spaces by floating around horizontally, kinda like Wario (lmao @ making a brawl comparison), it's gonna be really hard to find those situations where you can actually connect one of thoes moves. The most likely way to kill her is definitely a bair or spike, or even a shine on Yoshi's story. It's because those moves are fast, have priority, and are not that punishable.

 

[Dogysamich]

Does he have any BAD matchups? No.

Does he have "disadvantage" in any matchups. Marth.

IMO, Falco runs even with Peach, and at most has a slight (VERY SLIGHT) disadvantage against puff, the key thing is you have to play those matchups completely counter to how everybody wants to play falco.

 

[Mogwai]

I would support the idea of you as Falco board moderator, I don't see why not with all these new Melee boards ones.

Can I ask why U Air and the smashes aren't prospective kill moves in the matchup. Will smashes simply not hit a spaced Jigg?

well, they are, but I'd say ~ 50% of my kills vs. Jiggs are high % bairs, which, thinking about other matchups, makes it a really disproportionately useful kill move. Uair is decent and you can catch them with usmash out of shield more than most other characters, but fsmash is **** hard to connect with, as is dsmash unless you get them into a tech chase situation. dair shield stab -> full hop dair spike also happens a good bit in the 80-100%ish range. Utilt also kills sometimes. Dtilt in theory would be sweet, but Jiggs is pretty much never on the ground to get hit by it and it's range is *** + it has long enough lag that she will punish the **** out it.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Have I dreamed that laser comboes into F Smash? If so it's surely not THAT hard to connect with correct?Though admittedly the risk is bad considering shielded F Smash = Jump out of shield rest.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

well they do but i personally like laser to dsmash more than fsmash

 

[Mogwai]

it VERY SITUATIONALY combos in the air, never on the ground. It's more of a combo that shouldn't ever work but works frequently despite this. Oh, but it's hard to hit Jiggs with a laser low enough for it to work.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Hmm, that makes sense. So it seems there's still a lot of controversy, I would've assumed this far into the game's lifespan such high up matches would be set in stone.

 

[Mogwai]

na, matchups never will be. Different players will always like different matchups due to having different playstyles. There are some people who think Fox counter Falco these days -_-'

 

[V3ctorMan]

FALCO is the **** and he has NO COUNTERS... he counters everything........!!!!!! lol not really...another thing to point out and would be appropriate to notice is the style of the Falco user...also.. btw what do you guys think on Falco vs sheik?...and still there are stages too.. to come into play!...but multiople tpes of playstyles may come into play here!

 

[Mogwai]

FALCO is the **** and he has NO COUNTERS... he counters everything........!!!!!! lol not really...another thing to point out and would be appropriate to notice is the style of the Falco user...also.. btw what do you guys think on Falco vs sheik?...and still there are stages too.. to come into play!...but multiople tpes of playstyles may come into play here!

still haven't figured out how to post legibly I see -_-...

Falco rocks Sheik IMO, I think if played correctly, it's her worst matchup.

 

[V3ctorMan]

lol fine
.
I'll post normal for a change but i was just curious on your opinion and other opinions POV. With that being said to this day, i still don't believe Falco has any complete bad matchups but rather matchups that need to be approached and handled differently. Like playing Jiggs/Peach carefully even playing wobbles and is awesome IC's, my Falco did very well only losing by a stock. I guess it just all depends on how you make your approach against players.

Marth gives Falco trouble if you let him have control of the map, and in MOST cases Falco should always have map control w/his movement and lasers. Otherwise I actually believe Falco > Marth w/my experiences of playing. same with playing Peach I still favor Falco > Peach.. I even like the Falco/Jiggs matchup to a certain extent.

Just with Falco's easy to gimp recovery, his off stage game is rather horrible against these 4 characters. =/

OR, Axe counters Falco! Not Pikachu. Axe's Pikachu > Falco. LOL. He's beaten many top Falcos with that thing. Pikachu's ****ing annoying!

and yeah my occasional AXE *****!

 

[jwkirby64]

marth and fox both destroy and get destroyed by falco

chain grabs, grab comboes, gimping

falco has lasers and comboes

 

[Mogwai]

lol fine
.
I'll post normal for a change but i was just curious on your opinion and other opinions POV. With that being said to this day, i still don't believe Falco has any complete bad matchups but rather matchups that need to be approached and handled differently. Like playing Jiggs/Peach carefully even playing wobbles and is awesome IC's, my Falco did very well only losing by a stock. I guess it just all depends on how you make your approach against players.

Marth gives Falco trouble if you let him have control of the map, and in MOST cases Falco should always have map control w/his movement and lasers. Otherwise I actually believe Falco > Marth w/my experiences of playing. same with playing Peach I still favor Falco > Peach.. I even like the Falco/Jiggs matchup to a certain extent.

Just with Falco's easy to gimp recovery, his off stage game is rather horrible against these 4 characters. =/

well, assuming the 4th you're talking about is sheik, then, yea, that's his big downfall. Marth is just by far and away the best out of these characters vs. Falco due to his ability to utilt/uair beneath platforms, his good running speed, and all his disjointed hitboxes that lead to him being able to steal map control from Falco. Jiggs is also good because of all the horizontal aerial mobility, which lets her weave around Falco's lasers and create oppurtunities to kill him. I just feel like Peach and Sheik have no real way to create control on the map, they just have to hope Falco ****s up in order to get anywhere.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Vectorman loves Axe, I've noticed



...a lot

 

[V3ctorMan]

LOL DON'T HATE SON!... lol yeah.. i admit.. i do talk alot of **** about him.. in a good way... Idk.. i'm just happy. I remember when i first met him in school i was talkin so much **** about him and wanting to use pikachu. and how it'd never work.. i beat him pretty badly when i first met him. then he comes back a year later with a pikachu and nearly beats me. He asks me for some help in some things, I teach him what i know, he surpasses me. It's kinda like a student/teacher thing. but yeah.. man he's come along way, perhaps I just idol him, wishing i learned as fast as he did or somethin.

2 months afterwards. he's consistenly beating me.. 5-6 months later after that. he's on the level of the top players such as Forward/Taj/Wobbles/Light even consistently beating them, all in a little less than 2 years... at that.. with a PIKACHU!! Mainly im tryin to get his name out there. I just believe he's a highly UNDERRATED player. and i'm tryin to change that =/

btw. I leave for the military in 5 days i'm a miss you all *sniff* =/

 

[JPOBS]

Jiggs is falco's worst matchup imo.
i fear gettig grabbed like the plague, if it doesnt lead to a rest, then a quick back/foward throw to Xair = death.

marth is easier to deal with cuz he's a lot easier to hit with lasers and follow with somehting. Jiggs will probably crouch under most lasers or fly above them, marth atleast gets combo'd to a certain extent by falco.

i find playing jiggs to be a matter of hitting her once or twice and then getting the **** away and camping rinse repeat.

 

[Eggm]

I say falco's only disadvantage is fox. I think that he has a tough time (meaning like even) with Jiggs/ic's/peach/marth/sheik/samus. Other than that its all rapesauce. Oh and he ***** the mario chars harder than any other char IMO (doc/mario).

 

[DtJ Jungle]

mmm rapesauce...

 

[Mogwai]

I say falco's only disadvantage is fox. I think that he has a tough time (meaning like even) with Jiggs/ic's/peach/marth/sheik/samus. Other than that its all rapesauce. Oh and he ***** the mario chars harder than any other char IMO (doc/mario).

plz2explayn Mario matchups then cause playing DJ makes me want to shoot myself in the face at least twice.

also, Fox doesn't have an advantage, it's even at worst, probably a little in Falco's favor, IMO.