Do you think customizable movesets will effect the comp scene in anyway?

[Aninymouse]

Don't just parrot what other people say. The game is not even out yet. Do not count your chickens before they hatch.

There is no conclusive proof or subjective data to conclude that custom movesets will need to be banned. There are MANY factors that must be considered before such an action is taken - factors we do not yet know.

Let the custom moves stand on their own merit. Maybe they are broken trash, maybe they deepen and enrich the metagame. But to parrot this meme of "lol banned," before any concrete information is known, makes you truly sound like a "no fun allowed" person. Let us not be close-minded and bigoted. Melee is not going away. Barring a C&D, P:M tournaments are not going away. We've had the same metagame to evolve for over a decade now; the same tired but solid formula. Brawl failed to build on that foundation, forcing the game into a casual "box". I liked Brawl, but even I can admit the game was boring and ill-balanced and not competitive enough. From the looks of things so far, Smash 4 looks like it could be competitive enough to stand on it's own and forge a new metagame. There is NO NEED to force Smash 4 into Melee's "box." Smash 4 will never replace what Melee is and was, so do not feel threatened by it. See it for what it is: a new metagame to try and enjoy. I can tell you right now, it looks leagues better than Brawl does. Let's give it a chance.

If it's time for competitive Smash to evolve a bit from Melee, so be it! It will not be the end of the world. If these custom B moves are trash, so be it! But we need time to see. We will not know until this summer.

Thank you.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Don't just parrot what other people say.

No one is actually parroting anyone. To say we're parroting what other people say implies we didn't use our own intelligence to reach our own opinion so we borrowed it. We don't care to hear this condescending BS. An opinion being unique isn't a requirement for it to be valid.

There is no conclusive proof or subjective data to conclude that custom movesets will need to be banned.

Do you mean an anecdote? Yeah, we don't have anecdotes for the actual experience, but then again you're already wanting to write off the input of the majority, who don't even want to try it.

There is NO NEED to force Smash 4 into Melee's "box." Smash 4 will never replace what Melee is and was, so do not feel threatened by it. See it for what it is: a new metagame to try and enjoy. I can tell you right now, it looks leagues better than Brawl does. Let's give it a chance.

We're going to play Smash 4 for what it offers that others games don't, but custom movesets aren't a part of that. We were looking forward to this game regardless of the custom movesets. Additionally, we've played each game the same way for a reason: It's the kind of game we want to play. The kind of game you want to play is fundamentally different. Smash 4 never being able to replace Melee isn't a reason for the rest of us to want to play any differently. You haven't even reconciled how your minority would turn the movesets into a play/counterplay system with a meaningful metagame. Not enough of you agree on what you even want out of custom moves.

 

[OddCrow]

IDK about you guys. Moveset customization seems PERFECT for the competitive scene. It will close the gap between characters with bad match-ups. Can't overcome that Marth with your Yoshi? Change your forward-B instead of your character! This would mean that "maining" a character means knowing matchups and move-counterpicks. Sounds awesome to me.

 

[NewGuy79]

We're going to play Smash 4 for what it offers that others games don't, but custom movesets aren't a part of that. We were looking forward to this game regardless of the custom movesets. Additionally, we've played each game the same way for a reason: It's the kind of game we want to play. The kind of game you want to play is fundamentally different. Smash 4 never being able to replace Melee isn't a reason for the rest of us to want to play any differently. You haven't even reconciled how your minority would turn the movesets into a play/counterplay system with a meaningful metagame. Not enough of you agree on what you even want out of custom moves.

while I get were your coming from I'ld like to point out that our current meta game is undoubtedly heavy influenced by Melee, so saying that the current meta game is in place because thats how we want it to be like is kind of misleading. we have our current meta game mainly because there have been so few entries into the SSB series, meaning that the meta game has never had a chance to really grow or change from Melee. now one would point to brawl to rebuttal my point however our community made it very clear that brawl contributed nothing to the meta game (other opinions not mine), if this was not the case then we wouldn't be seeing things like PM which is basically brawl with melee mechanics (and as a result similar meta game) stitched on.

now obviously theres no way any of us can influence how we like to play, however thats not what were discussing here, what we are trying to determine is if custom move sets could possibly be beneficial to the competitive meta game. in that aspects I go into a lot more detail on it with my earlier post on this page.

TL;DR from what we've been shown theres no real reason for custom move sets to be banned, the little information we do have already point to them being limited to special and the alternate special themselves seem to trade one aspect for another to remain balance (-speed for +power or +speed for -power). when contributing to the meta custom moves may allow characters to fill roles that normally they wouldn't be ably to do and perhaps allow players to change and adapt to opponents set ups or play style.

personally the meta game we have right now with Melee is flawed in many ways, for one its far more unbalanced then some would let on (20XX any one?) and the barrier to entry (at least competitively) is far to high, none of these things do much to diminish the quality of melee's hype ass meta game and game play. But I can't help but be a little sad when we as a community actively fight against any change to the meta game we set up for Melee, we already know that certain aspects from brawl are going to cary over to SSB4 (air dodge for one), so to expect SSB4 to conform to Melee's meta game is unlikely and honestly just setting your self up for disappointment.

In my case I'm with the camp who wants to take in all of SSB4 before judgement is passed, I'm all up for new ideas and mechanics and I belive that Sakurai is competent enough to add them into SSB4 in a meaningful and impactful way.

 

[Sahfarry]

I'd really like a customizable game where you don't know what kind of Build your opponent is using until the moves has been used.

Finally! Use for the gamepad!

Now we need some custom robo

 

[Aninymouse]

No one is actually parroting anyone. To say we're parroting what other people say implies we didn't use our own intelligence to reach our own opinion so we borrowed it. We don't care to hear this condescending BS. An opinion being unique isn't a requirement for it to be valid.



Do you mean an anecdote? Yeah, we don't have anecdotes for the actual experience, but then again you're already wanting to write off the input of the majority, who don't even want to try it.



We're going to play Smash 4 for what it offers that others games don't, but custom movesets aren't a part of that. We were looking forward to this game regardless of the custom movesets. Additionally, we've played each game the same way for a reason: It's the kind of game we want to play. The kind of game you want to play is fundamentally different. Smash 4 never being able to replace Melee isn't a reason for the rest of us to want to play any differently. You haven't even reconciled how your minority would turn the movesets into a play/counterplay system with a meaningful metagame. Not enough of you agree on what you even want out of custom moves.

I don't have to reconcile how custom moves will or will not be utilized. It is a mechanic of the game. Banning it puts the burden of proof on those who wish to ban it.

But, putting that aside. The reason, kind sir, that there is no consensus among those who wish to give all of Smash 4's mechanics (barring items and terrible stages) a chance, is mainly due to the fact that we literally know next to nothing about custom moves or the game conventions surrounding them. We have nothing to go on, which is precisely my point! No fair judgement can be made one way or the other. To insinuate that the majority of Smash 4 players want these custom moves banned is one level of assumption, but then to try and pass that off as the only logical and reasonable option is just wrong.

Judgement must be reserved until we have the game. Anything less is simple bigotry, either in the "ban" camp or the "allow" camp. We need more information.

 

[ThomasTheTrain]

I would say to ban it in most *official* major tournaments for the first 5-6 months. I mean if the game is amazingly balanced without them, and all they do is add absurd randomness to match ups it seems to be pointless.

Local and other such get togethers/tourny's should ideally use standard for the first few weeks at the shortest and ideally like 2 months, than the testing and such can begin. The biggest problem i can foresee is that it just adds a bunch of confusing options to match ups like: marth counters megaman but megaman variation 31 counters marth, and than sheik 18 counters Megaman 31 and all sorts of extreme counter games that people could never see coming. And building recoveries for specific levels/maps may be a problem.

 

[CoolPalMitch]

The thing I just don't get is why people are assuming the new moves will be broken or it will be too complicated to keep track of all the different moves. First of all, it's been established by multiple people beforehand that for the most part, the different moves will be sidegrade variations of the standard moves, with some of them being completely different moves entirely, like Kirby's Ice Breath attack thing. None of them have shown any signs of being too overpowered or broken by any means. Secondly, people are making this whole idea sound way more complicated than it probably will end up being. I highly doubt there are going to be millions of combinations and variations for each character. I'm pretty sure the way it'll work is that each character will have 3-5 different variations for each move, with very few of them diverging that much from the original standard move (again, Kirby Ice Breath). The point of Smash Bros is simplicity. Over-complicating things is what Sakurai is trying to avoid.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I don't have to reconcile how custom moves will or will not be utilized. It is a mechanic of the game. Banning it puts the burden of proof on those who wish to ban it.

It's not a mechanic of the game. It's a feature of the game. Learn the difference. This feature is in the same vein as changing the weight ratios of characters. So why don't we change weight ratios? Why don't we use % handicap for balance? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on people who don't want these kinds of changes in tournaments? No. That's ridiculous. A feature in the game isn't grounds for consideration in competitive play by way of simply existing.

But, putting that aside. The reason, kind sir, that there is no consensus among those who wish to give all of Smash 4's mechanics (barring items and terrible stages) a chance, is mainly due to the fact that we literally know next to nothing about custom moves or the game conventions surrounding them. We have nothing to go on, which is precisely my point! No fair judgement can be made one way or the other. To insinuate that the majority of Smash 4 players want these custom moves bans is one level of assumption, but then to try and pass that off as the only logical and reasonable option is just wrong.

Judgement must be reserved until we have the game. Anything less is simple bigotry, either in the "ban" camp or the "allow" camp. We need more information.

But it hardly matters. Most people don't want it. Note the poll wasn't even taken in a competitive subforum. I haven't heard a single TO talk about using custom moves in their tournaments. I haven't heard a top level player make a valid case for why we should even use them. Show me one respectable person making the case for this. This isn't a science where you think the optimal, ideal result can be determined through the of the rigors of experiment. This comes down to preference. Most people do not even want to use custom moves in tournaments to begin with. "Anything less is simple bigotry"? Cut the pretentious ****.

If I went around basketball league courts and asked people "Why don't we try to incorporate bases and baseball diamonds into the game?" they'd probably laugh and turn the idea away. If I went on to call them bigots for not giving the idea a try, they'd never take me seriously again, and I'm sure in some places they'd beat my ass.

 

[mimgrim]

But it hardly matters. Most people don't want it. Note the poll wasn't even taken in a competitive subforum.

Is it actually able to be take to a competitive subforum without the thread being off-topic from the forum? If so. Tell me how and I'll do that. I'm curious as to what more experienced and well known players have to say on the matter. And If I could hear their opinions I would try and get them. Even though I'm not the OP of this thread lol.

 

[Aninymouse]

@ Dr. James Rustles

Do you really expect me to cherry pick through all the posts on this topic in this and that thread, find you the "respectable" people's opinions, and compile those? Or are you just being facetious to prove your point? That's preposterous.

And the poll itself is nowhere near the 75-25 split you cited on page 3, anymore. It's 58-45. That's nowhere near a super majority. There is no clear consensus. The number of people who would like to give Custom Moves a chance is growing, based on that poll you like so much. Please do not throw your weight around, it is not necessary to get upset.

Custom Moves are a feature, that is true. I made a mistake by being needlessly vague in the way I worded that sentence, but I was typing it on my mobile and I didn't catch it. However, as a feature, we can choose to use it, or not. Selecting "random" on the character select screen is a feature, but it is a choice to use it. So are the music, stage, and item selections. Being a "feature" of the game does not impart any inherent negative or inferior quality.

I'm perfectly fine with banning Custom Moves if they are needlessly complex, time consuming, or broken. Let me repeat that. I'm perfectly fine with banning Custom Moves if they are needlessly complex, time consuming, or broken. However, if Mario having a different B move doesn't amount to much of a difference competitively, and thus isn't broken; and if the interface is simple, fast, and intuitive, I see no reason to boycott them in Smash 4 besides stringent aversion to change or inability or willingness to change and adapt. I think that is more than reasonable.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Do you really expect me to cherry pick through all the posts on this topic in this and that thread, find you the "respectable" people's opinions, and compile those?

No. Read what I wrote again, and pay attention this time:

I haven't heard a single TO talk about using custom moves in their tournaments. I haven't heard a top level player make a valid case for why we should even use them. Show me one respectable person making the case for this.

I asked you to name one person of significance in the competitive community that has an opinion of why custom moves should used competitive play. Just name one off the top of your head. This should be relatively easy since there are a lot of vocal competitive players and TOs. Hell, look at Overswarm or Mew2king. I take the lack of actual discussion by the vast majority of competitive players as tacet agreement that custom moves don't have a major place in competition, but that's just myself. If you want to make a case for why custom movesets should even be considered, you can start by citing notable interest in the idea. There's already a majority against it, so show someone with expertise and recognition for that expertise offering what they think.

I have heard what Zodiac has to say, and his opinion and your opinion are indistuishable (which I think is a little too coincidental. Talk about parroting, guy.) There's nothing wrong with believing we should give the custom moves a trial in competitive play. The real issue I have with your stance is that you think a feature is auto-include, under certain palatable conditions, and that anyone that disagrees with it should bear the burden of showing why we don't need custom moves. This is ass backwards. There is some priority here you need to acknowledge. The competitive scene existed before custom moves did. You're on some really unsafe ground, by that poll and otherwise, in believing the competitive community would or should agree to custom moves even if they were convenient and not broken. It's imperative that you show why we should use them before we even begin to.

--

Going back to "don't have to reconcile how custom moves will or will not be utilized." You absolutely must satisfactorily show how the custom movesets would work in a tournament setting and the people who want custom movesets absolutely must reach agreement on that way of using custom movesets in a tournament. You're not going to go anywhere without momentum and a method. It's not going to sort itself out.

The number of people who would like to give Custom Moves a chance is growing, based on that poll you like so much. Please do not throw your weight around, it is not necessary to get upset.

I really am surprised you even acknowledged the poll. Anyway, you're probably wrong in thinking that poll is shifting. That thread hasn't even been bumped in two weeks; I hardly doubt anyone goes to vote there. I already made the disclaimer that I was probably wrong about its ratios. Accept that. And no matter how you slice that 15%+/- error, you have a majority, even a strong one.

Asking some hard questions doesn't mean I'm throwing my weight around or upset. You yourself are practically calling people mindless drones by telling them not to parrot what other people think, so I'm not going to patronize you. You're trying to put yourself in a safe position by saying "wait and see" and failing miserably by then trying to shift responsibility. Welcome to the real world, where if you want to be taken seriously, you properly address what's asked of you. Saying I'm angry or throwing my weight around is misrepresenting myself and where I'm coming from, borderline Straw Man.

Is it actually able to be take to a competitive subforum without the thread being off-topic from the forum?

I don't even, mimgrim. wat

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if we could get away with going to a competitive subforum somewhere else, say the Brawl Competitive Discussion subforum or Melee, and seeing what people think of custom movesets?

 

[OddCrow]

Wow, you guys get pretty serious over this with LOTs of superfluous points.

This is an unexplored meta and I think people dismissing it outright are going to eat crow in a few years when we've successfully integrated the feature into our tournaments and meta. This isn't melee or project m - and this will undoubtedly bring the characters closer to being balanced. I'd rather not have another melee where 1/3 of the characters are usable competitively. Look at it this way too, is there ONE move that shuts down any ONE character a meaningful percentage of the time? No.

There are many ways to integrate this into a tournament, from picking beforehand, to counterpicking, to simple point-based rules. We'd be foolish to dismiss a potentially amazing opportunity due to nothing but stubbornness and aversion to change.

 

[Mode]

Look at it this way too, is there ONE move that shuts down any ONE character a meaningful percentage of the time? No.

MK's nado on heavy characters...

 

[mimgrim]

I don't even, mimgrim. wat

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if we could get away with going to a competitive subforum somewhere else, say the Brawl Competitive Discussion subforum or Melee, and seeing what people think of custom movesets?

Seeing as it relates to Smash 4. I would think it would constitute as off-topic from the competitive subforums. (This is why I try to avoid making threads on this site lol.)

 

[Aninymouse]

No. Read what I wrote again, and pay attention this time:



I asked you to name one person of significance in the competitive community that has an opinion of why custom moves should used competitive play. Just name one off the top of your head. This should be relatively easy since there are a lot of vocal competitive players and TOs. Hell, look at Overswarm or Mew2king. I take the lack of actual discussion by the vast majority of competitive players as tacet agreement that custom moves don't have a major place in competition, but that's just myself. If you want to make a case for why custom movesets should even be considered, you can start by citing notable interest in the idea. There's already a majority against it, so show someone with expertise and recognition for that expertise offering what they think.

I have heard what Zodiac has to say, and his opinion and your opinion are indistuishable (which I think is a little too coincidental. Talk about parroting, guy.) There's nothing wrong with believing we should give the custom moves a trial in competitive play. The real issue I have with your stance is that you think a feature is auto-include, under certain palatable conditions, and that anyone that disagrees with it should bear the burden of showing why we don't need custom moves. This is *** backwards. There is some priority here you need to acknowledge. The competitive scene existed before custom moves did. You're on some really unsafe ground, by that poll and otherwise, in believing the competitive community would or should agree to custom moves even if they were convenient and not broken. It's imperative that you show why we should use them before we even begin to.

--

Going back to "don't have to reconcile how custom moves will or will not be utilized." You absolutely must satisfactorily show how the custom movesets would work in a tournament setting and the people who want custom movesets absolutely must reach agreement on that way of using custom movesets in a tournament. You're not going to go anywhere without momentum and a method. It's not going to sort itself out.



I really am surprised you even acknowledged the poll. Anyway, you're probably wrong in thinking that poll is shifting. That thread hasn't even been bumped in two weeks; I hardly doubt anyone goes to vote there. I already made the disclaimer that I was probably wrong about its ratios. Accept that. And no matter how you slice that 15%+/- error, you have a majority, even a strong one.

Asking some hard questions doesn't mean I'm throwing my weight around or upset. You yourself are practically calling people mindless drones by telling them not to parrot what other people think, so I'm not going to patronize you. You're trying to put yourself in a safe position by saying "wait and see" and failing miserably by then trying to shift responsibility. Welcome to the real world, where if you want to be taken seriously, you properly address what's asked of you. Saying I'm angry or throwing my weight around is misrepresenting myself and where I'm coming from, borderline Straw Man.



I don't even, mimgrim. wat

I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if we could get away with going to a competitive subforum somewhere else, say the Brawl Competitive Discussion subforum or Melee, and seeing what people think of custom movesets?

I had a lot planned to say, but I just found out my checking account is at zero this afternoon, and I have better things to do. I'll keep it short.

Quilt, I sent you a PM. I hope you read that.

The post I quoted is riddled with misinformation and ad hominem attacks. You even put up a few strawmen of your own, after accusing me of the same thing. Is it really appropriate to slander me?

My intention in all this is not to stir up venomous arguments. I find it reasonable to hold judgement on custom moves until we get more information and have a chance to try them out. It's not like there's going to be any kind of serious launch-day tournaments to worry about, here.

If you disagree, fine. But disagree on principle and substance and do not waste time trying to tear down the man making the counter argument. It only makes you look like a bully. So, there, I'm done with this for now. I've beat this dead horse enough. I'll come back here when and if we get more information to talk about before release. No hard feelings, Quilt.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Quilt, I sent you a PM. I hope you read that.

The post I quoted is riddled with misinformation and ad hominem attacks. You even put up a few strawmen of your own, after accusing me of the same thing. Is it really appropriate to slander me?

My intention in all this is not to stir up venomous arguments. I find it reasonable to hold judgement on custom moves until we get more information and have a chance to try them out. It's not like there's going to be any kind of serious launch-day tournaments to worry about, here.

If you disagree, fine. But disagree on principle and substance and do not waste time trying to tear down the man making the counter argument. It only makes you look like a bully. So, there, I'm done with this for now. I've beat this dead horse enough. I'll come back here when and if we get more information to talk about before release. No hard feelings, Quilt.

It's strange you would apologize in the pm you sent but not here. You sent that PM three hours ago and I ignored it because I actually don't care one way or the other how you might have offended me. To me, it's whatever; I have a really thick skin anyway. Hell, I liked what you had to say here after the last post I made. All I did in this discussion was match the tone what you were saying and put you in your place. I've done this before in several other threads, especially the Proposed Ruleset thread. You are 28 years old, ANinyMouse. I'm going to talk to you like you're an adult. You don't get to call people bigots and insinuate they are ******** without expecting people to be colorful in return. And that kind of talk is not a major detraction from the posts. It really isn't. Perceived slights aren't the meat of debate. I was going to leave this whole thing alone until you made an entire post about it.

"If you disagree with me, fine. But disagree on principle and substance..." Okay, but you'll still call people bigots for it. Ridiculous.

I don't think you hope I read the PM. I think you know I read the PM and now you're just looking for another way to get my attention. The fact you're making your post mostly about me without having even included your apology makes it pretty evident. Well, it's not going to work in the way that you hoped. You're not going to be able to devalue ideas because they're attached to things that you think is slander against you. In fact, your entire post is thinly veiled slander against me and you can't hide it. If it's not, you should have grown some balls and included the apology, and not made an entire post about someone else in the first place. Saying you're not trying to "stir up venomous arguments" is a flat-out lie. "No hard feelings, Quilt" is just misdirection, and a high-horse you don't get to climb on.

 

[Hayzie]

I don't think so. I think it will be balanced. Risk Reward type moves and just variations of regular moves that have nearly the same effect. Really looking forward to this. I don't expect anything to be OP and ridiculous.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Alright guys, debate is alright but refrain from personal attacks, name-calling, and insulting ones intelligence. It doesn't help out the debate and just makes the other side angrier.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Ewwww. I don't like Custom movesets. It makes Smash more like pokemon imo. Sure they will be "custom" but in name alone. Each person competitively is going to look up the best move set for their character. Sure theres "depth" but only for a few months/ a year until the good players win with their move sets and everyone just copies theirs.

 

[Wolfie557]

IF not banned, yes.

but custom movesets can only be used in custom moveset matches anyway.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

Ewwww. I don't like Custom movesets. It makes Smash more like pokemon imo. Sure they will be "custom" but in name alone. Each person competitively is going to look up the best move set for their character. Sure theres "depth" but only for a few months/ a year until the good players win with their move sets and everyone just copies theirs.

This isn't true because one custom move may be good against one character while another custom is good against another. For example Pit's standard arrows might be good at punishing Marth's recovery but not be good at punishing MKs. So the Pit player would choose to use the rotating arrows custom move. That's just a possible example of added depth to the meta game.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

This isn't true because one custom move may be good against one character while another custom is good against another. For example Pit's standard arrows might be good at punishing Marth's recovery but not be good at punishing MKs. So the Pit player would choose to use the rotating arrows custom move. That's just a possible example of added depth to the meta game.

I guess you're right but they could just switch characters from Pit and be someone else who counters that specific recovery. Its all just a big variable. I wouldn't be opposed to custom move tourneys being separate from default ones but if custom moves are the standard for tourneys then I don't like it. I could see this being like a buff for low tier characters but I could see things getting out of hand quickly with something thats customizable. Infinites galore.... I can see them spawning with people exploiting stuff like that.

 

[Jellyfish4102]

I guess you're right but they could just switch characters from Pit and be someone else who counters that specific recovery. Its all just a big variable. I wouldn't be opposed to custom move tourneys being separate from default ones but if custom moves are the standard for tourneys then I don't like it. I could see this being like a buff for low tier characters but I could see things getting out of hand quickly with something thats customizable. Infinites galore.... I can see them spawning with people exploiting stuff like that.

There's not any evidence that any custom moves will be exploitable. Plus if there was there is always the possibility of a balancing patch.

 

[smashmachine]

IDK about you guys. Moveset customization seems PERFECT for the competitive scene. It will close the gap between characters with bad match-ups. Can't overcome that Marth with your Yoshi? Change your forward-B instead of your character! This would mean that "maining" a character means knowing matchups and move-counterpicks. Sounds awesome to me.

This is a funny dream, I can only see it widening the gap.

That being said, if you can choose them quickly like MvC assists, why not try it.

 

[LancerStaff]

Ewwww. I don't like Custom movesets. It makes Smash more like pokemon imo. Sure they will be "custom" but in name alone. Each person competitively is going to look up the best move set for their character. Sure theres "depth" but only for a few months/ a year until the good players win with their move sets and everyone just copies theirs.

So... Everybody will have the same moves either way?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

So... Everybody will have the same moves either way?

Yes. So they are redundant.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

No moveset diversity allowed, only clones and the characters they are clones of.

 

[JOE!]

@ Dr. James Rustles : ever consider that the pros are quiet since there is just so little info to even talk about?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

@ Dr. James Rustles : ever consider that the pros are quiet since there is just so little info to even talk about?

Yeah, but I don't consider it the likelyhood.

Uh, in streamer D1's analysis of the Smash 4 direct, he did say he thought the custom moves may not have a tournament presence because of ruleset complications.

 

[Its_Groovie]

Yeah, but I don't consider it the likelyhood.

Uh, in streamer D1's analysis of the Smash 4 direct, he did say he thought the custom moves may not have a tournament presence because of ruleset complications.

What kind of complications, other than they may be imbalanced or take to long to set up, could there be?

 

[Big-Cat]

What kind of complications, other than they may be imbalanced or take to long to set up, could there be?

One region could allow a move but not another one. You'd have to do an all or nothing deal with custom moves in tournaments.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

What kind of complications, other than they may be imbalanced or take to long to set up, could there be?

What if in order to use your custom move, you have to scream your Social Security Number into the gamepad mic?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One region could allow a move but not another one. You'd have to do an all or nothing deal with custom moves in tournaments.

Well, I thought that part was a given. Everybody could use one if they chose to.

As I said before, it'd just need testing. They likely will be easy to set up as is for offline play. They may cause issues, but nobody knows for sure. At least not right now when we have little information.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, I thought that part was a given. Everybody could use one if they chose to.

As I said before, it'd just need testing. They likely will be easy to set up as is for offline play. They may cause issues, but nobody knows for sure. At least not right now when we have little information.

If anything, the fact that it's not going to be for online play should tell you already that tournament play for it, outside of side events, is a bad idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If anything, the fact that it's not going to be for online play should tell you already that tournament play for it, outside of side events, is a bad idea.

It's available for online play. But only For Friends.

I said that a bit badly in my last post. It's available to be used online and offline as is. I'm saying setting it up offline for tourneys should be really fast to do. Set up your name and then the exact move combinations.

And that doesn't really say anything. For all we know, none of the combinations may even be close to banworthy. I'm doubting this, but we know way too little right now.

I do worry that certain rules might get complicated about this, but it completely depends upon how the actual option works. If it has a "limit" on what you can change, so you have to weaken other moves, for instance, it balances out. I'd like to wait and see, really.

 

[Neo Zero]

I'm sure some of the stuff I'm about to say has been said and beaten to death, but regardless I'd like to get my opinion on the subject out anyway.

First off, in terms of tournaments, both online and offline, they can be used. Offline for obvious reasons, and any online tournament would require you to directly join with that person, where you could then customize your moveset, so the fact it can't be used in online random matchmaking holds no weight. The biggest things to look at it would be

Balance: First obvious one, simply how are balanced are these custom move properties. Judging from the video snippet, I'd say Sakurai had the thought in mind to add these to really enhance matches and gamplay and not just throw in a silly side feature.

Time: How long it takes to set up. Nothing would kill the possibility of it being legal more than having to exit two menus, go to the character and name tag just to edit one of your B moves to counterpick someone, then go back in and start playing, it needs to be a really quick process, pick your character, pick your 1-4 (or however many) move modifiers, done, quick, easy, takes no more than 5 seconds.

Accessibility: Are they all available with the character being unlocked? If you have to unlock certain powers, then you have a giant problem. At home you use Mario's meaty slow moving fireball and go to your local event, but uh-oh, they dont have it unlocked! Even having some hidden ruins the potential of starting moves, just because then you gotta make the argument "well hey, why are these allowed but not these" and that starts a slippery slope effect. At most, if they were very easy to unlock then maybe you can make the case, but if say some are hidden behind Cruel Smash and killing 30 wire alloy polygon w/e's, that causes a huge issue for TO's.

Over Centralization: Let's use MK as an example. Say one of his custom moves makes his Tornado just like Brawl and is the without a doubt best choice so if you use him, you must use it. Do you ban the one technique? Or do you ban the whole system in general. This is another really slippery slope thing, and it ties to balance

As long as one of the above problems does not arrise however I see no reason to ban them, and really hope the community embraces the idea. Gems in SFxT is a take on this idea for example where you can customize your fighter to your playstyle. Of course the execution was awful, but the idea was sound. A better example would be Melty Blood, each character has 3 different "moon phases" they can select, which can drastically change how they play, whether some moves have different properties or changed all together. It's easy to use, pick a character, pick a phase, boom, done. If Sm4sh can have something this easy and fast I'd be very happy.

I guess the biggest thing is I hope TO's at least TRY to give custom moves a chance, whether in side events, or hosting a normal tourney one week then a custom move tournament the next. Until sufficient testing is done we won't ultimately know, but this deserves a fair chance, no different than looking at legal stages.

 

[LancerStaff]

Accessibility: Are they all available with the character being unlocked? If you have to unlock certain powers, then you have a giant problem. At home you use Mario's meaty slow moving fireball and go to your local event, but uh-oh, they dont have it unlocked! Even having some hidden ruins the potential of starting moves, just because then you gotta make the argument "well hey, why are these allowed but not these" and that starts a slippery slope effect. At most, if they were very easy to unlock then maybe you can make the case, but if say some are hidden behind Cruel Smash and killing 30 wire alloy polygon w/e's, that causes a huge issue for TO's.

From the looks of things, you'll have to transfer from SSB3D to use any of them. Let's just hope the transfer button isn't far away...

 

[Aninymouse]

From the looks of things, you'll have to transfer from SSB3D to use any of them. Let's just hope the transfer button isn't far away...

I've heard several people say this, and maybe I don't remember everything from the Direct, but I'm pretty sure this was not explicitly stated. If it's a feature that requires the 3DS version, of course no one will take it seriously!

No, I believe this will be a fully functional feature for both versions. If there has been a statement to the contrary, please post some source. I'm on mobile and can't be doing much searching.

 

[CloneHat]

This looks a lot like SFxT gems. They waste too much time, so they were heavily restricted at major competitions IIRC. I can say that as a TO I wouldn't be interested in screwing around with custom moves in competition. Furthermore, Nintendo doesn't include them in their ranked online battles, "For Glory", suggesting they don't intend them for competition either.