Do you have a chance if you can't even win on For Glory?

[ItsASquid]

I've always wanted to be good at something, but I can't even win on for glory more than 50% of the time. I simply can't work out patterns in my opponents or how to punish them. If I can't even win the supposed easiest part of the game, do I have any chance of ever becoming a competitive player? Or is it a case that some competitive players struggle on for glory too?

 

[Lylo]

For Glory means nothing.
I'd rather start fighting CPU than lag and roll fest...oops I meant FG

 

[Charey]

You should start going to tournaments as soon as you can, even if you go 0-2 in bracket you can get a lot of friendlies in and get advice from other players that will let you improve much quicker then just for glory.

Reading is something that takes time, you need to know what your opponent's general goal is to have any idea what moves they will be likely to use, which is why match up experience plays such a big part in learning the game.

 

[ItsASquid]

You should start going to tournaments as soon as you can, even if you go 0-2 in bracket you can get a lot of friendlies in and get advice from other players that will let you improve much quicker then just for glory.

Reading is something that takes time, you need to know what your opponent's general goal is to have any idea what moves they will be likely to use, which is why match up experience plays such a big part in learning the game.

Thank you; can you recommend an alternative if you can't attend tournies in person? I have no local scene, and due to my health, I can't travel to the nearest one, two hours away from me.

 

[T4ylor]

ItsASquid Read this. If you want to find some competition that can help you as a player then you can get that through the forums here or on smashladder.

 

[Charey]

Thank you; can you recommend an alternative if you can't attend tournies in person? I have no local scene, and due to my health, I can't travel to the nearest one, two hours away from me.

There are some online tournaments you can join, hosted outside of the game because of how bad tournament mode is. The CrazyHand Reddit hosts some frequently, that is also another place you can get advice.

The other option is to start a scene, find some other players and host a tournament, start posting on Facebook and on here for people who might be interested in joining. You are probably only getting like 10 people at first but it will grow on its own.

 

[Bombchu Link]

I've always wanted to be good at something, but I can't even win on for glory more than 50% of the time. I simply can't work out patterns in my opponents or how to punish them. If I can't even win the supposed easiest part of the game, do I have any chance of ever becoming a competitive player? Or is it a case that some competitive players struggle on for glory too?

FG isn't really a super good place to train, I use it whenever I don't have any other options, and even then I most of the time just lab my character instead.

Use anthers ladder, do endless friendlies with someone nice and ask them what you keep doing wrong, that is literally the best way to go about it, also if possible play someone a LOT better than you, if you can take more than a game off them they aren't a lot better than you.

Also the smash Discord community is usually really nice and another way to do friendlies with other people of the group. just join a character specific group and ask to play in a friendlies chat room, it's that easy. Also some players have voice chat so you can do that and get feedback live during a match as well. (also it's more likely to find players a lot better than you this way because the people on anthers don't really like to play players that aren't at their skill level a lot of the time.)

And finally save replays, no not the ones of you getting that offstage rest or 3 falcon punches in a match, watch the ones of you getting destroyed by that cloud or beyonetta, or you not being able to keep up with that falcon in the neutral.

Replays are a hit/miss online but if you keep getting punished for the same thing then it's prolly not just wifi at that point. do you roll from the ledge to much? do you always double jump early on offstage, do you roll behind your opponent a lot? ask yourself these question while watching replays and find where you opponent is consistently milking damage out of you. what works on one foe won't necessarily work on another.

Also only like 40% of the players on for glory are totally scrubby now, it's not near as bad as it was even 6 months ago. until the binges where the DLC comes out and all the matches fill up with beyonettas clouds and corrins for give or take 72 hours.

And finally don't screw yourself over if you miss that punish or couldn't perfect shield that attack, it's wifi's fault not yours. wifi is good for practicing things in particular, like learning a new matchup, how to strengthen your netural game, read you opponent ect. it's not just a place you go bumble around and play games for the sake of playing games. (actuallly, you shouldn't ever do that but wifi can reallly screw with you if you do.)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For Glory is a very poor place for competitive matches, simply because of the lag issues that can pop up.

 

[GeflGabe]

I would say yes, not only does for glory suck sometimes (roll spams, little macs, bayonettas, etc.) but as they say: losing makes you stronger than winning. This piece of advice might not be for everyone but losing doesn't mean you suck especially on for glory where there's lag and exploiters take it as a chance of exp. rather than shame. You should have just as a big of a chance as anyone else.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

I'm not gonna be nice like everyone else here and make lag johns, I'm just gonna tell it to you straight: if you can't win more than 50% of your matches on For Glory, then you are bad.

HOWEVER. Even if you are bad now, it doesn't mean you can't improve. And For Glory does not help you improve. Start attending actual tournaments and you will get better, and then that win rate will start going up.

 

[2fast]

For Glory can actually help with training somewhat depending on your mindset. Don't take any matches to heart because of lag and don't get salty when playing (whether it's because of lag or other reasons) because as long as you're playing salty you won't be getting any better.

The best training would be to go to tournaments even at the risk of getting 0-2d. Friendly against some high level players and ask what you're doing wrong or why are you getting hit. I specifically say high level players because even if you're playing against a mid level player and losing, a lot of the time the mid level player will just say something like they saw an opening or something like that. If you ask why you're losing when facing higher level players, they can actually break down what you're doing wrong and why you took damage for what you did.

 

[Poppy100]

Ok, you people are SERIOUSLY pissing me off... Having actually won some tournaments (I won one last Friday), I can safely say that one, For Glory DOES help you get good. (though some of the things mentioned here MIGHT help you get better more quickly, I imagine local play practice would be superior).

And two, if your losing that much online, you ARE bad at the game, PERIOD. Unless your connection is constantly so bad that you can't play properly. Who said that For Glory is easy anyway? I guess there are periods of time where you get strings of clueless players, but even clueless players can punish you when you make a punishable mistake. (This constantly surprises me to be honest) It IS true that a tournament match has a VERY different feel to it, and its kinda hard to explain honestly, but For Glory is certainly a reasonable place to start. I honestly think a lot of people on this site have NO idea what they are talking about. You can tell by the things they say about certain character match ups that they don't play the game competitively.

Bear in mind, I've played like 18000 matches on For Glory, ABSOLUTELY hate losing, and do NOT win the tournaments often!

As far as using Smash Ladder goes, according to Dabuz (Who sometimes shows up at these tournaments) the GOOD players that use Smash Ladder don't play on the 3DS, which did echo my experiences with it at the time, that was many months ago though. I still don't have the game for the Wii U yet. (And yes, I won tournaments in spite of this, it doesn't make that much of a difference!) If you have the Wii U game, go for it on Smash Ladder. The 3DS players were...Not bad I guess, but not the world ending players I was expecting them to be. Maybe its changed since then, I don't know, I find it too inconvenient when I just wanna play.

 

[ItsASquid]

For Glory can actually help with training somewhat depending on your mindset. Don't take any matches to heart because of lag and don't get salty when playing (whether it's because of lag or other reasons) because as long as you're playing salty you won't be getting any better.

The best training would be to go to tournaments even at the risk of getting 0-2d. Friendly against some high level players and ask what you're doing wrong or why are you getting hit. I specifically say high level players because even if you're playing against a mid level player and losing, a lot of the time the mid level player will just say something like they saw an opening or something like that. If you ask why you're losing when facing higher level players, they can actually break down what you're doing wrong and why you took damage for what you did.

I remember playing a brief game against a silver rank on Anthers for some advice recently. Am I the only one who has had a consistent string of bad experiences on the ladder? It might be the time I am playing when mods aren't around (?) but everyone's so rude - sometimes worse than on for glory!

By the way I may take a small break - in a foul mood after failing to beat a samus only using missles and charge shots. I feel like I should've won, but for the life of me I couldn't find a way around the wall with any character at all. Worst of all the player had a tag of "noob destroyer" which really upset me.

 

[Nobie]

I think For Glory works well as an initial introduction to human opponents. If you first begin my mainly playing the computer, For Glory makes you immediately aware of how non-computer-like human play can be. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're GOOD, but you'll get a whole range of play styles from conventional to crazy to "FG roll and projectile," and it can be a useful reminder that not everyone plays the way you "expect' them to.

That said, it really is influenced by things like lag. It's like getting the idea of a human, rather than a fully offline or even ladder experience.

 

[Tizio Random]

I think it really depends from person to person and how For Glory is "in your zone". I did well in the few tournaments I went but my For Glory win ratio, even if I don't play FG anymore, is abysmal, like 30%.

I don't know how Internet connection is in other countries but here, unless you play with an Italian guy, lag is unbearable. And it's no surprise considering we have one of the worst Internet connection in Europe by a large margin. I swear there is at least 0.5 seconds of lag everytime with some matches where it would even stop, it's almost impossible to win.

Instead, I played against some top players and really good players here and, even if I lost because they are better than me obviously, I did far better than every single match I've lost in FG. Go figure.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Every game mode helps you improve as long as you have the right mindset.

I play level 9 CPUs to improve my reflexes/frametraps.
I play level 4 CPUs to improve my spacing/combo game.
I play For Glory to improve my readings.
I watch my own replays to notice bad habits of mine.
(I don't play ladder because I'm lazy, and don't play Tournament Mode because I don't have a Wii U).

Only doing one is like neglecting the rest of the ways you can improve.

Oh, but is true that offline, player-to-player play helps you with all of that.


But the most important thing is: don't take losses at heart. Ever.
That's a crippling mentality, gets you upset and will blind you from your goal.

 

[Fluorescent]

Don't even take FG too seriously. You're bound to find a good player here and there but the stigma around FG is what primarily makes it a bad place to practice on. (Yenno things like lag, roll spamming, always FD, etc.) It's not generally bad to play on FG but FG is so limited on what you can learn, you're better off just playing offline friendlies.

You could lose 100% of your FG games because of lag but win a local the next day. FG shouldn't be a deciding factor if you're good or not.

 

[Lag Chan]

For Glory is an utter cesspool where you'll barely find anyone worth fighting against. If it had an actual ranking system and better netcode maybe it could mean something but instead you get what we have now. So it means nothing in the long run, even for practice it's such a different environment from offline that a lot of experience you'll find in For Glory won't matter, unless the stars align and you somehow find an actually skilled player in a match that doesn't suffer from a poor frame rate or input lag.

When it comes to practise and learning it's all about offline, or if you don't have friends nearby or a local scene, online friend games (preferably with people who live in the same country as you for the best connection) is the next best way to go.

 

[Galm]

Like they said, keep your options open and try different methods to see what helps. Also, don't worry about winning or losing, focusing on improving. Work on what you can do better, and take pride in yourself when you notice improvement (you WILL see improvement).

 

[September]

A fun way to improve is to just invite some friends over for some friendlies, not only is playing smash with friends a blast but you'll also improve off one another.

 

[LeifEriksson]

K, I'm going to put my 2 cents into this as well.

I used to be in the same place as you, probably 4 months ago. Below 50% win rate on FG, no people that I can play friendies locally, and overall just **** at the game. But, Anthers Ladder was my saving grace. When I fought people, I learned from my mistakes because they can point out what I'm doing wrong. Granted, I'm just a lowly bronze 1 scrub still, but I have improved dramatically. I haven't played FG since I started on Anthers.

 

[Trifroze]

Unless you live in a really convenient area with an active scene, offline tournaments are not the fastest way to improve simply because you cannot attend them often enough due to budget or other reasons. It's very valuable when you can, but it requires you to get some actual games in and the right kind of mindset where you take the time to think about what are most noticeable things you keep doing wrong and then systematically fix those things over time one by one.

Your mind internalizes new things slowly over time and those things eventually become intuitive (i.e. you can utilize it all without even thinking) and then you will free those mental resources so that you can internalize new things again and slowly build up your skill and thinking speed this way. It can take a year or more to get actually good, and it only happens if you truly keep trying to improve with a mindset like this. Getting stuck being mad about scrubs or anything else for that matter is not constructive at all.

FG actually has some good players here and there especially at nighttime, and some of them are bound to be relatively close to you so the connection can also definitely be playable. What comes to people saying that FG absolutely doesn't matter because of lag, lag is both sided and if you can't adapt to it better than your opponent, what hope do you have in adapting to someone's playstyle in an actual tournament? Of course some strategies work way better in lag and you shouldn't succumb to using them if you actually want to get good, but if you really are noticeably better than your opponent you should be able to work around it, and until you do, you're probably not better than them. Although if the lag is massive then skill differences become almost irrelevant.

 

[Poppy100]

Did everyone just ignore me? (For the most part?)

I'm not surprised honestly.

 

[LeifEriksson]

Did everyone just ignore me? (For the most part?)

I'm not surprised honestly.

Yes, because everyone has their own opinion here and nobody wants to argue with you.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

So I used to be an FG warrior...that was all I played cause I didn't have a local to attend and really didn't know anyone in real life to practice with. Well I went off to university this last year and I got involved with the scene down there and have become a relatively good player. Stopped playing FG altogether. Came home for winter break and gave FG shot. Couldn't win a game unless I was playing Ganon. Ive been close to winning tournaments since I got into the competitive scene but now I can't play FG. FG really isnt a good way to better yourself as a player, but it can be a good way to initially start learning the game. Just my 2 cents on the topic.

(Sorry for any typos, on mobile).

 

[wizrad]

I play level 4 CPUs to improve my spacing/combo game.

Any reason why you play versus level 4s as opposed to, say, 6s?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Any reason why you play versus level 4s as opposed to, say, 6s?

No actual reason, but Level 4 is the point where CPU will not just draft towards you all the time after being hit like Level 3, 2 or 1, it adds other options sometimes.
I do play other levels (because I bore easily), but 4 is the fastest practical one.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Go play Anthers Ladder to improve..I learned mostly from For Glory but trust me I have some bad habits ingrained from that place even though I have met a lot of good players on there..

Just play with the Bronzes first and tbh since Anthers is a place where specifically people who REALLY want to improve go to you might choke and have a very hard time with Bronze Players..(I mean you struggle on FG this place will be more harder)

So dont even think about playing Silvers,Golds,Platinums unless you dont care about your rank or winning and you are fine with being bodied as long as you get feedback from your partner..

 

[Lylo]

Unfortunately there, Gold and Plat wont ever accept your challenges unless you are on same rank.

 

[ItsASquid]

Go play Anthers Ladder to improve..I learned mostly from For Glory but trust me I have some bad habits ingrained from that place even though I have met a lot of good players on there..

Just play with the Bronzes first and tbh since Anthers is a place where specifically people who REALLY want to improve go to you might choke and have a very hard time with Bronze Players..(I mean you struggle on FG this place will be more harder)

So dont even think about playing Silvers,Golds,Platinums unless you dont care about your rank or winning and you are fine with being bodied as long as you get feedback from your partner..

Define "a lot of good players" please? I'm from the uk, and I know most people say to "avoid playing at night" when the "good players emerge," but no matter when I play, all I run into are godlike players.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Define "a lot of good players" please? I'm from the uk, and I know most people say to "avoid playing at night" when the "good players emerge," but no matter when I play, all I run into are godlike players.

Godlike players are something I would call the Top 10 not the people on FG or Anthers are Godlike

The People on Anthers are unpredictable and unique they specifically come there because the chaps at FG got so easy they became boring..

I can go toe to toe with even the Golds on Neutral game but edgeguarding and other disadvantagous positions have caught me off guard several times because the people on For Glory do not take advantage of the game going from Neutral to their advantage and their aerial moves are unpredictable or well not familiar with because people there are creative

Anthers ladder will remind you how important the neutral game is and how you can be pressured a lot if you are in the air trying to recover or getting zoned out..

Like really I have not seen people on FG who really know how to just pressure you like this midmatch it makes the matches very exciting and forces you to focus that you arent safe at all times.


And you will learn a lot from facing people at Anthers..Now not everyone on Anthers is like this mostly the higher ranked ones (Silver,Gold,Platinum)

The Bronzes I faced there are better than the average FG player

 

[Simperheve]

I try to play on Anther's as much as I can as opposed to FG. The majority of players you will play on Anthers will live in the same country/ region as you and will probably have ethernet adapters. This helps create a low-lag environment so you can focus on play. Also, most people are happy to give you match feedback which is always handy. I played one guy who was bodying me with his Sheik for the first few games but by the end of it we were having some really intense Pika V Sheik games.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I wouldn't say For Glory is useless. One thing I feel that it is good for is seeing different playstyles and, even against crappy players, you'll sometimes be surprised by tricks and tactics you never thought of. For example, I think I've learned more tactics with Megaman and Villager on For Glory then I ever did watching matches on Youtube or Twitch. Another thing it is good for is gaining general and practical match up knowledge. For example, you learn what constitutes good and bad strategies for different characters, which moves you shouldn't use a lot (or at all), basic set ups, etc. After awhile, you get a decent idea of what makes a decent and what makes one you can almost entirely blow off.


I have close to 20,000 matches on it and can also say that not everyone on it is god awful. Like you, some people are pretty isolated and it's one of their few competitive outlets so there are actually a lot of people on there that suffer from "Sandbox Syndrome" (basically being the guy that destroys their friends, crushes locals or has a popular steaming channel but gets flattened at state/national level tournaments). I'm definitely like this because I always run away with locals (only dropping one set this whole year so far) but would probably be crushed if I went to one in a major city (which is extremely rare in my area) so decent players do exist on it. As people have said, if it really bugs you, save your replays and watch them to get an idea of what you're doing wrong or post them on here to show us. Just upload a match where you get BTFO and we can commentate if you want.

Also, I just noticed that you main Wario and Robin and both have pretty steep learning curves so you may want to switch to easier characters to get a better handle of fundamentals first.

 

[DavyChan]

It's kindof annoying when people say that for glory is so easy, lol. I mean is everyone here a top notch player, because some of y'all come of as pretentious as hell, and I sure as hell don't know any of you, outside of this forum.

Anyway, for glory can be really hard at times because there will be a lot of people who spam certain things or do certain "for glory" tactics as I like to call them. In this sense it can make it harder than going to locals I'd imagine. I'm someone who is very bad at dodging "cheap tricks" and that's what for glory people do a lot of. They find a niche with their character (to where they hardly lose) and then they run with it because it works. I.E. Sonics running a rampage the ENTIRE game, cloud's using that side smash every chance they get because it's quick and kills at like 60, bayonettas using their heel slide combos because it is two hits (heel slide then witch twist) and can catch you off guard when shielding, etc.

 

[ItsASquid]

I wouldn't say For Glory is useless. One thing I feel that it is good for is seeing different playstyles and, even against crappy players, you'll sometimes be surprised by tricks and tactics you never thought of. For example, I think I've learned more tactics with Megaman and Villager on For Glory then I ever did watching matches on Youtube or Twitch. Another thing it is good for is gaining general and practical match up knowledge. For example, you learn what constitutes good and bad strategies for different characters, which moves you shouldn't use a lot (or at all), basic set ups, etc. After awhile, you get a decent idea of what makes a decent and what makes one you can almost entirely blow off.


I have close to 20,000 matches on it and can also say that not everyone on it is god awful. Like you, some people are pretty isolated and it's one of their few competitive outlets so there are actually a lot of people on there that suffer from "Sandbox Syndrome" (basically being the guy that destroys their friends, crushes locals or has a popular steaming channel but gets flattened at state/national level tournaments). I'm definitely like this because I always run away with locals (only dropping one set this whole year so far) but would probably be crushed if I went to one in a major city (which is extremely rare in my area) so decent players do exist on it. As people have said, if it really bugs you, save your replays and watch them to get an idea of what you're doing wrong or post them on here to show us. Just upload a match where you get BTFO and we can commentate if you want.

Also, I just noticed that you main Wario and Robin and both have pretty steep learning curves so you may want to switch to easier characters to get a better handle of fundamentals first.

Maybe it's just an "eventhubs" thing, but why is Wario so unpopular? He strikes me as a really underrated character?

Also I've been learning to read people more, but is it just me or is air dodging/rolling insanely hard to punish? Like I'm well ahead of the enemy about to roll, but the timing is so strict my punish misses.

 

[Jandlebars]

It's kindof annoying when people say that for glory is so easy, lol. I mean is everyone here a top notch player, because some of y'all come of as pretentious as hell, and I sure as hell don't know any of you, outside of this forum.

Think of it this way:

For Glory is not a 'skill-less' environment, but you won't improve much if you just keep playing it. In some cases, you may even be teaching yourself bad habits if the opponents you play against are consistently predictable. If you utilise a limited set of skills with persistence, you'll neglect other important parts of improving yourself, like fine-tuning your understanding of the neutral, or the nuances of stages other than FD or Omega versions.

People who reject FG mode aren't necessarily saying you can't improve or learn anything there (at least, not all of them are). But once you reach a certain threshold of understanding the game, it ceases to actually teach and inform you much more than that.

Anther's is a suitable next-step when you reach that point, and it's very helpful. But taking all things into account, nothing will teach you better than offline tournament play.

 

[Mr. B]

I live in a remote area in the UK too! I mainly play FG too!

My golden rule for playing FG is: If someone is toomuch/not enough challenge, I just skip them. My best games have come when I have skipped through until I found a strong player who beat me with some interesting tricks until I played a few games, learned those tricks, and started playing evenly with them. You come away from an hour of that, probably having lost most of your games, but developed a new skill, or at the very least been able to see the practical benefit of fastfalling/crossups/whatever techniques in action...

 

[Axel311]

Maybe it's just an "eventhubs" thing, but why is Wario so unpopular? He strikes me as a really underrated character?

Also I've been learning to read people more, but is it just me or is air dodging/rolling insanely hard to punish? Like I'm well ahead of the enemy about to roll, but the timing is so strict my punish misses.

I main Wario and I've always been baffled at how nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole. Nobody else in my scene mains him.

I think it's due to how awkward most people seem to find his moveset to be. Most people seem to hate how he feels and moves. That seems to be the biggest reason. And he's not easy to play overall, he's not pick up and play by any means.

But as to your original question the best advice is to start your own scene. First thing to do is create a facebook page. Second thing is to spread the word through smashboards posts, facebook invites, putting posters in places like comic book/gaming stores, emails, ect. Try and find a place where you and the people you find can meet up with. Gaming stores seem to be popular for this. Or colleges who have open rooms in the evenings.

Until then I'd recommend playing level 8/9 CPUs first, until they becoming really easy. Better than laggy online in my opinion, especially for Wario. He's a totally different character online to be honest. And if you can't beat level 8s consistently master that first before going online.

 

[Jenna Zant]

And two, if your losing that much online, you ARE bad at the game, PERIOD..

Not really. Your character could have a disadvantage on FD, or be disadvantaged by the smallest bit of lag. I have a 30% winrate on FG, but when I went to my first local session, I won quite a few games against actually good people. Even when I didn't win, I didn't get totally destroyed.

 

[Axel311]

Not really. Your character could have a disadvantage on FD, or be disadvantaged by the smallest bit of lag. I have a 30% winrate on FG, but when I went to my first local session, I won quite a few games against actually good people. Even when I didn't win, I didn't get totally destroyed.

I agree with this. Lag makes certain characters a lot worse and certain characters a lot better .

Also certain character just play a lot differently because of lag. I know online 's bike in neutral is just stupid online because opponents can't react and punish soon enough due to lag. But his neutral other than that is a lot worse since he requires a lot of precision with spacing, waft setups and general combo confirms.

I do a lot better in local than online.