"Do spirits/ATs deconfirm" discussion

[Overtaken]

I know this gets discussed in pockets here and there, but I was thinking that this topic is a major elephant in the room that deserves a focused and collected discussion.

We are in a wierd spot where we know we are getting five more unique DLC fighters but a great many of the prime choices are in as spirits or assist trophies. We all know Sakurai is a choatic man who will do what he pleases and break nearly any rule, expectation, or "pattern" he pleases at any time, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be something deeply awkward and questionable about adding fighters who are already spirits or ATs.

So on the one hand, with the exception of perhaps a Dragon Quest rep and Banjo&Kazooie (that I can think of), any of the obvious "iconic all star" choices are seemingly partitioned off behind this design choice. On the other hand, it seems equally unlikely that 3-5 of the remaining fighters are just going to be obscure/oddball choices a la Piranha Plant or deep-pull (iconic but not connected to Nintendo) 3rd party choices.

 

[Tetrin]

On the one hand, Mewtwo and Lucas were included in Sm4sh despite being trophies. Spirits are replacements for trophies, so who's to say spirits are any different?

At the same time, trophies were more so remembrances of characters that didn't make it in, unlike Ultimate's spirits, which can drastically change the course of a battle.

It can go either way, and there's decent evidence on both sides, but quite frankly, it's too early to call. If a trend in DLC characters not having spirits becomes apparent, then I think it's safe to say spirits are mere consolation prizes, however, we only have one character announced, and his inclusion alone is not a good indicator. Probably around the third DLC character is when the evidence will pop up, and even then, we'll have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Neither of them are deconfirmations for me.

People seem to be very fine with the idea of spirits and Mii costumes not deconfirming but Assist Trophies? Nope, apparently they are the nail in the coffin despite them just being NPCs which can easily be turned off for specific reasons in Ultimate now. Also NPCs become playable later on in other games so I don't understand why Smash is so exempt from this to the fans. Assist Trophy 'promotions' would also be able to use the assets to help turn them into the figthers, obviously being heavily altered.

For me, I do feel that we won't see any of the characters that are AT's become fighters for DLC this time but if we do get a second wave like people have been throwing it around I think it is quite likely. Anyway, calling it impossible is pretty ridiculous and arguments like 'it didn't happen in Smash 4' don't mean anything.

 

[shocktarts17]

Alright let's start with an unbiased look at the two main schools of thought involved here. The division comes from one fundamental difference and what people think about it, when was the DLC decided.

On the one hand you have people who think the DLC was mostly decided early in the process, citing things like Rex not making the cut and the Persona 5 release to help point to a time frame. Because the DLC was decided early on, before the spirits were selected, they would not have been included as spirits because spirits are supposed to be a way to get characters and items in that wouldn't be able to get in otherwise. This leads to the spirits deconfirm camp.

On the other hand you have the people who think that the DLC was decided later, after the spirits were selected. They point to Sakurai's tweet to say DLC wasn't finished until just a month before Smash released. Since DLC is being decided after the spirits are selected they feel that Nintendo would never pass over a popular DLC option just because they had already added them as a Spirit. This leads to the spirits don't deconfirm camp.

Okay now that that's out of the way here is my biased opinion, spirits do deconfirm. I think they knew that they would be doing DLC for this game right away and as such started trying to figure out who could be DLC before they selected their spirits. I also feel like the lack of a spirit for Piranha Plant and the fact that any time a fighter shows up in a spirit (i.e. Link) they make special point to note that this is a different version of the character but that is never seen in non-fighters. We were told that spirits are the consolation prize and you don't give a consolation prize to someone who already won a spot on the DLC roster, its a waste and could go to someone else.

I think the biggest issues I see with the frequent argument against spirits deconfirming is that "who would be left?" but all you need is 5 people (4 now) to be DLC and we know some of those are gonna be 3rd party who wouldn't have spirits to begin with. Beyond that the rest of the arguments I see seem to boil down to wishful thinking and not wanting their most wanted to be deconfirmed. But as someone who's 3 most wanteds were all spirits there is no point in living in denial, I can hope that I'm wrong without seriously believing they still have a chance.

EDIT: adding in that all of this only applies to Wave 1, a hypothetical Wave 2 would be open season to promotions.

 

[Minik]

I only think outright DLC deconfirms aka DLC Mii costumes like Rex, however, the priority of a spirit or an assist seems to be at the bottom of the list. I think if anyone was gonna be promoted to playable though, it'd be Springman. And I doubt it'd happen within these 5 fighter pass characters.

 

[Overtaken]

but all you need is 5 people (4 now)

Wait so do we know that PP is one of the five? I thought PP was "preorder bonus" that you don't need to get the fighter pass to get and thus wasn't included in the 5.

 

[shocktarts17]

Wait so do we know that PP is one of the five? I thought PP was "preorder bonus" that you don't need to get the fighter pass to get and thus wasn't included in the 5.

Joker

 

[Overtaken]

Joker

I don't know why I keep forgetting about that haha. Never played persona and have zero clue who the character is.

 

[shocktarts17]

I don't know why I keep forgetting about that haha. Never played persona and have zero clue who the character is.

Haha no worries, I wasn't sure if you were being serious at first but I figured I'd help ya out.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't Piranha Plant a spirit?



if so, then I think we know our answer to the question

 

[WaddleMatt]

Okay now that that's out of the way here is my biased opinion, spirits do deconfirm. I think they knew that they would be doing DLC for this game right away and as such started trying to figure out who could be DLC before they selected their spirits.

Yet in Smash 4, Mewtwo was announced before release too and he had a trophy and chances are they already had Lucas being planned then too.

 

[meleebrawler]

Alright let's start with an unbiased look at the two main schools of thought involved here. The division comes from one fundamental difference and what people think about it, when was the DLC decided.

On the one hand you have people who think the DLC was mostly decided early in the process, citing things like Rex not making the cut and the Persona 5 release to help point to a time frame. Because the DLC was decided early on, before the spirits were selected, they would not have been included as spirits because spirits are supposed to be a way to get characters and items in that wouldn't be able to get in otherwise. This leads to the spirits deconfirm camp.

On the other hand you have the people who think that the DLC was decided later, after the spirits were selected. They point to Sakurai's tweet to say DLC wasn't finished until just a month before Smash released. Since DLC is being decided after the spirits are selected they feel that Nintendo would never pass over a popular DLC option just because they had already added them as a Spirit. This leads to the spirits don't deconfirm camp.

Okay now that that's out of the way here is my biased opinion, spirits do deconfirm. I think they knew that they would be doing DLC for this game right away and as such started trying to figure out who could be DLC before they selected their spirits. I also feel like the lack of a spirit for Piranha Plant and the fact that any time a fighter shows up in a spirit (i.e. Link) they make special point to note that this is a different version of the character but that is never seen in non-fighters. We were told that spirits are the consolation prize and you don't give a consolation prize to someone who already won a spot on the DLC roster, its a waste and could go to someone else.

I think the biggest issues I see with the frequent argument against spirits deconfirming is that "who would be left?" but all you need is 5 people (4 now) to be DLC and we know some of those are gonna be 3rd party who wouldn't have spirits to begin with. Beyond that the rest of the arguments I see seem to boil down to wishful thinking and not wanting their most wanted to be deconfirmed. But as someone who's 3 most wanteds were all spirits there is no point in living in denial, I can hope that I'm wrong without seriously believing they still have a chance.

Can you cite that wording of ''spirits are consolation prizes''?

WaddleMatt Specifically, before the release of Smash Wii U. The 3DS version had been out for a few months already. At any rate, given what we know about Sakurai's mindset when developing a game (make it feel as complete as possible without relying on DLC), it's far more likely spirits or trophies these days are more indicative of not being planned for the base game, but wanting some representation in the worst case scenario that plans fall through. For third parties at least it would be oddly schizophrenic of the respective owners to say they can have their character's picture represented in the game, but not a playable character, barring extenuating legal issues. First parties are a little muddier in how it's comparatively easy to grab images of them later if making them fighters doesn't shake out for whatever reason.

 

[T-Donor66]

I do not believe assist trophies deconfirm characters. Why do people think that just because something has never happened, it NEVER will happen? Is it so hard for people to realize they could just disable that trophy from appearing while the fighter is on stage?

 

[StormC]

I do not believe assist trophies deconfirm characters. Why do people think that just because something has never happened, it NEVER with happen? Is it so hard for people to realize they could just disable that trophy from appearing while the fighter is on stage?

I think it's more to do with what an Assist Trophy means, from a creative standpoint. They're often seen by Sakurai as "sorry this fighter couldn't make it, but we wanted to give them something." Just look at all the popular ballot characters that got turned into ATs (including Isaac after being cut from 4). So it's less "game design dictates that these roles can't co-exist" but "Sakurai already feels these characters wouldn't be fighter material." At best, the ATs could be read as "better luck next time," looking at Little Mac, Isabelle, and Dark Samus.

The closest comparison we have is Chrom being in both Robin's Final Smash and as a playable fighter, but Robin's FS is a carryover from the last game.

Could it happen? Certainly. Would I bet on it happening? Not particularly. I think the DLC is going to be third-party focused like Smash 4 and I don't currently expect a "second season" of DLC.

 

[WaddleMatt]

At best, the ATs could be read as "better luck next time," looking at Little Mac, Isabelle, and Dark Samus.

That 'better luck next time' could be DLC.

 

[dezeray112]

Whilst I do feel that characters which had been ATs would be most likely be deconfirmed for Ultimate in my opinion, they could potentially become transitioned into playable characters possibly within the next Smash installment.

As for Spirits, it is very hard to say at the moment.

 

[T-Donor66]

I think it's more to do with what an Assist Trophy means, from a creative standpoint. They're often seen by Sakurai as "sorry this fighter couldn't make it, but we wanted to give them something." Just look at all the popular ballot characters that got turned into ATs (including Isaac after being cut from 4). So it's less "game design dictates that these roles can't co-exist" but "Sakurai already feels these characters wouldn't be fighter material." At best, the ATs could be read as "better luck next time," looking at Little Mac, Isabelle, and Dark Samus.

The closest comparison we have is Chrom being in both Robin's Final Smash and as a playable fighter, but Robin's FS is a carryover from the last game.

Could it happen? Certainly. Would I bet on it happening? Not particularly. I think the DLC is going to be third-party focused like Smash 4 and I don't currently expect a "second season" of DLC.

Or we could stop making airquotes about things that Sakurai has never once implied or said. Where in the world did you get “Sakurai feels these characters aren’t fighter material”? Did it really take him 4 years to realize that yes, Isabelle and Dark Samus could indeed work as fighters?

Assist trophies aren’t some walk of shame for characters that aren’t good enough according to him. They can’t put everyone in as a fighter so some simply don’t make the cut.

And even if you are right about it being “better luck next time”, that “next time” could be DLC. Simple as that. This isn’t Brawl where cut content or ideas left out due to time constraints are permanently banished from the game.

 

[StormC]

Or we could stop making airquotes about things that Sakurai has never once implied or said. Where in the world did you get “Sakurai feels these characters aren’t fighter material”?

"Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters."

In saying these characters "aren't fighter material," that simply means these characters couldn't be fighters for this game, for any number of reasons. I've even acknowledged the possibility that ATs could be promoted within the same game, but I don't expect it.

Go ahead and hope for AT characters all you want, I'm not stopping you. Nobody here is going to actually affect what happens in the game's development. I'm just not holding out for it at this point. Again, the closest comparison we have is an example of carried over assets from a previous Smash.

 

[T-Donor66]

"Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters."

In saying these characters "aren't fighter material," that simply means these characters couldn't be fighters for this game, for any number of reasons. I've even acknowledged the possibility that ATs could be promoted within the same game, but I don't expect it.

Go ahead and hope for AT characters all you want, I'm not stopping you. Nobody here is going to actually affect what happens in the game's development. I'm just not holding out for it at this point. Again, the closest comparison we have is an example of carried over assets from a previous Smash.

“Could quite make it” =/= “not a potential fighter”. Like I said in my last post, that can also mean that the characters simply couldn’t make it into the base roster do to time constraints. The game has to come out eventually, and they cant keep delaying it for years to add every character as a full fighter. And again, this is a patch age. Ideas or fighters not added due to lack of time arent banished from the game like in Melee and Brawl.

 

[Sari]

I think assist trophies means a character is 99% deconfirmed. If Sakurai intended for an AT character to be playable I don't get why he'd go through all of the effort to make them an AT. We have yet to see a playable character be an AT within the same game.

It's still a bit too early to make calls on spirits though I've been starting to think they deconfirm characters (or at the very least first parties). They are no where near as bad as AT's though in terms of deconfirmation though.

 

[T-Donor66]

I think assist trophies means a character is 99% deconfirmed. If Sakurai intended for an AT character to be playable I don't get why he'd go through all of the effort to make them an AT. We have yet to see a playable character be an AT within the same game.

It's still a bit too early to make calls on spirits though I've been starting to think they deconfirm characters (or at the very least first parties). They are no where near as bad as AT's though in terms of deconfirmation though.

Maybe because making a character an assist trophy takes EXPONENTIALLY less devolpment time? Why do people keep implying assist trophies are some sort of hell for doomed fighters that Sakurai apparently hates? Why are Isabelle, Dark Samus, and Little Mac fighters if they were banished to assist trophy hell? Doesn’t Sakurai dislike them?

 

[StormC]

I don’t know, maybe because making a character an assist trophy takes EXPONENTIALLY less devolpment time??? Why do people keep thinking assist trophies are hell for doomed fighters that Sakurai apparently hates? Why are Isabelle, Dark Samus, and Little Mac fighters if they are banished to assist trophy hell? Doesn’t Sakurai dislike them?

Where did you get the idea any of us are implying Sakurai sees an Assist Trophy as a snub? It's been made clear that he sees them as important despite not being fighters. However, for any number of reason (lack of time, lack of interest, not thinking they would be a good fit), they were not chosen as fighters.

Let's look at what changed for those three characters between their AT and fighter status:

Little Mac: Got a successful revival that made the character and IP more popular and relevant in the modern age.
Isabelle: New Leaf came out after Smash 4's design document and since then the character has become very popular and heavily promoted.
Dark Samus: The formal introduction of Echo Fighter status meant she could be easily added as a bonus.

Meanwhile, Sakurai was developing Ultimate knowing, in all likelihood, it would have DLC. DLC negotations were going on before the game was even released. Let's look at say, Shovel Knight. If he thought "well, I don't have enough time and resources to add Shovel Knight to the base game as a fighter, but maybe he could be patched in later as DLC," why would he bother to create an Assist Trophy and then later go back and say "yeah, let's add him?"

I think if Sakurai felt "I could add this character later on but for now I won't," he wouldn't spend time and resources to give them a significant NPC role. After all, he decided to not add Ridley to either Smash 4 or as DLC, but settled on him soon after for the next game. Again, it could change. But I don't think it will, and there's no reason to assume it will besides hope.

 

[RileyXY1]

I am a firm believer that Spirits are not deconfirmations.

 

[T-Donor66]

Where did you get the idea any of us are implying Sakurai sees an Assist Trophy as a snub? It's been made clear that he sees them as important despite not being fighters. However, for any number of reason (lack of time, lack of interest, not thinking they would be a good fit), they were not chosen as fighters.
Let's look at what changed for those three characters between their AT and fighter status:

Little Mac: Got a successful revival that made the character and IP more popular and relevant in the modern age.
Isabelle: New Leaf came out after Smash 4's design document and since then the character has become very popular and heavily promoted.
Dark Samus: The formal introduction of Echo Fighter status meant she could be easily added as a bonus.

Meanwhile, Sakurai was developing Ultimate knowing, in all likelihood, it would have DLC. DLC negotations were going on before the game was even released. Let's look at say, Shovel Knight. If he thought "well, I don't have enough time and resources to add Shovel Knight to the base game as a fighter, but maybe he could be patched in later as DLC," why would he bother to create an Assist Trophy and then later go back and say "yeah, let's add him?"

I think if Sakurai felt "I could add this character later on but for now I won't," he wouldn't spend time and resources to give them a significant NPC role. After all, he decided to not add Ridley to either Smash 4 or as DLC, but settled on him soon after for the next game. Again, it could change. But I don't think it will, and there's no reason to assume it will besides hope.

Why wouldn’t he add the character if he had the assets of them already? Again, here is the stigma that assist trophies and fighters somehow cant coexist, a stigma only perpetuated by fans like us and never Sakurai.

Also, did you forget him saying that (as of the November 1st direct), DLC fighters had not been chosen? Your whole point rides on the implication that throughout development, Sakurai was constantly contemplating new DLC fighters, which just isn’t the case.
They made a development plan in December 2015, and they stuck with it.

 

[Sari]

Maybe because making a character an assist trophy takes EXPONENTIALLY less devolpment time?

Making an AT still takes some time to do, whether it be a brand new AT or one from a previous game carried over. It would make little sense for Sakurai to go out of his way to give someone an AT moveset then say "screw it, I want them as a character now!" I mean it's technically possible but like I said I think there's like a 1% chance of an AT being promoted to playable status within the same game.

Why are Isabelle, Dark Samus, and Little Mac fighters if they are banished to assist trophy hell? Doesn’t Sakurai dislike them?

You already know the answer to this but I'll go ahead and bite: they were made fighters in games that did not have them as assist trophies.

Hence why I said:

We have yet to see a playable character be an AT WITHIN THE SAME GAME

Also when the heck did I say Sakurai disliked them?

 

[StormC]

Why wouldn’t he add the character if he had the assets of them already? Again, here is the stigma that assist trophies and fighters somehow cant coexist, a stigma only perpetuated by fans like us and never Sakurai.

Because he already decided, from a creative standpoint, they wouldn't be fighters, and I don't see him changing his mind in the same game.

Also, did you forget him saying that (as of the November 1st direct), DLC fighters had not been chosen?

Character negotiations for third parties do not happen overnight. It's very likely characters such as Joker have been in planning for a good while, and they were all only absolutely finalized by early November (per Sakurai's Tweet). Sakurai was approached by Nintendo before the VGA to announce Joker there:

Nintendo had first approached me with a request: “We want you to reveal that Joker’s in development at The Game Awards 2018.” The timing wasn’t bad at all, it really was what made the flower that was Ultimate’s release bloom. Of course, I hadn’t even started on development at that point, so there wasn’t any gameplay we could show off.

The trailer that was presented, although lacking in gameplay footage, would not be trivial to create from a production standpoint. That's a trailer that needs to be scripted, storyboarded, animated, voiced (both in English and Japanese voices), edited, and proofed with all parties involved. It's not something you can crank out in a week. I speculate DLC has been in the works, conceptually, for longer than it would seem at initial glance.

 

[T-Donor66]

Making an AT still takes some time to do, whether it be a brand new AT or one from a previous game carried over. It would make little sense for Sakurai to go out of his way to give someone an AT moveset then say "screw it, I want them as a character now!" I mean it's technically possible but like I said I think there's like a 1% chance of an AT being promoted to playable status within the same game.


You already know the answer to this but I'll go ahead and bite: they were made fighters in games that did not have them as assist trophies.

Hence why I said:

My God, you really can’t grasp this can you? In December 2015, a development plan was made. Common sense dictates that they cannot make every assist trophy a full fledged playable fighter in time for launch. Sakurai picks the roster, and works on developing the fighters he selected, focusing ONLY on these characters as development continues. He has gone or record to say that fighters are never adde after the development plan is finalized.

He doesn’t go through each assist trophy during development and wonder if he should just not put them in because “they may be DLC later”. That’s not how game development works. Why is this so hard to comprehend? You heard the same thing I did in the Nov 1st direct. “The DLC roster has not be selected yet. Stop being closed minded. The reason we have never had an assist trophy be fighter at the same time is because DLC is a new concept to smash, not that hard to understand.

EDIT: I’m done here. You guys are willing to go through ridiculous mental loopholes to imply that game development isn’t flexible and perpetrating fan made rules like “they weren’t planned early in development, so they can be in till next game”. It’s absolutely pathetic.

 

[Zem-raj]

I'd say being an Assist Trophy deconfirms a character, their chances of being playable in the game are almost 0%, to me. However, I think spirits don't deconfirm characters - spirits are basically trophies in still image form with stats. Playable characters* have both Fighter spirits and standard spirits. Unless Sakurai and/or Nintendo state otherwise, regarding spirits effecting characters' chances, I'd say it's anything goes for spirits. Mii costumes might deconfirm characters - by the way it was worded, Rex's Mii costume seems to be a consolation prize.

*A select number.

 

[StormC]

EDIT: I’m done here. You guys are willing to go through ridiculous mental loopholes to imply that game development isn’t flexible and perpetrating fan made rules like “they weren’t planned early in development, so they can be in till next game”. It’s absolutely pathetic.

It's not that deep dude. People are engaging in the question: "do ATs deconfirm?" Nobody has to agree with you.

 

[T-Donor66]

It's not that deep dude. People are engaging in the question: "do ATs deconfirm?" Nobody has to agree with you.

It’s just very irritating to see people hop in and speak so adamantly about something they’ve put so little thought into. I gotta say at least you put up a good well though out argument, nothing wrong with that. I’m more so talking about the people (the other guy) who say stuff like “assist trophies can’t be a fighter in the same game because it’s never happened”. Absolutely 0 though or contemplation in that. Yeah, they have the right to say that, and I am also allowed to call out why I feel that is wrong and absurd.

 

[Sari]

My God, you really can’t grasp this can you? In December 2015, a development plan was made. Common sense dictates that they cannot make every assist trophy a full fledged playable fighter in time for launch. Sakurai picks the roster, and works on developing the fighters he selected, focusing ONLY on these characters as development continues. He has gone or record to say that fighters are never adde after the development plan is finalized.

He doesn’t go through each assist trophy during development and wonder if he should just not put them in because “they may be DLC later”. That’s not how game development works. Why is this so hard to comprehend? You heard the same thing I did in the Nov 1st direct. “The DLC roster has not be selected yet. Stop being closed minded. The reason we have never had an assist trophy be fighter at the same time is because DLC is a new concept to smash, not that hard to understand.

I am well aware of what the development process is like, but I stand by my statement on AT's due to patterns from previous Smash games (including SSB4's post-launch DLC content). Also as I said FOR THE THIRD TIME I still think there is a small 1% chance that an AT could be made playable in the future. Almost everyone thinks that being an AT means they have no chance at all, but I'm willing to give some benefit of the doubt that there is a chance. Waluigi, Ashley, Lyn, and Bomberman were some of my most wanted newcomers so I would be more than happy to be wrong.

EDIT: I’m done here. You guys are willing to go through ridiculous mental loopholes to imply that game development isn’t flexible and perpetrating fan made rules like “they weren’t planned early in development, so they can be in till next game”. It’s absolutely pathetic.

Yeah how dare I follow patterns from previous Smash games and listen to quotes from Sakurai himself that don't match up with your personal opinion (all while still thinking there's a small chance). I must be so close-minded! /s

 

[Sudz]

Assist trophies is a hard deconfirmation. Anyone that disagrees can @ me when it happens and I'm wrong, but it's not gonna happen so it is my opinion that it's best to move on from any hopes that assist trophies will be DLC.

Stickers are questionable, but Sakurai did say they exist to represent characters in some way in the game, which leads me to believe that it also deconfirms.

Sylux bros assemble

 

[T-Donor66]

Assist trophies is a hard deconfirmation. Anyone that disagrees can @ me when it happens and I'm wrong, but it's not gonna happen so it is my opinion that it's best to move on from any hopes that assist trophies will be DLC.

Stickers are questionable, but Sakurai did say they exist to represent characters in some way in the game, which leads me to believe that it also deconfirms.

Sylux bros assemble

See you February 2020 or sooner

 

[WaddleMatt]

See you February 2020 or sooner

Any specific AT you think is getting upgraded?

 

[andree123]

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior-come-on-lets-get-this-show-on-the-road-geno-dlc.446378/page-401#post-22776278
PolarPanda stated that it may be possible for AT to become fighters.
I'm thinking that wave 2 will happen when wave 1 is successful but possibly what I think it will the best way to get the fighters pass to sell the best only if one or two DLC fighters have to be Lloyd Irving due to Tales merchandise being popular with women in Japan or/and Banjo (and Kazooie) who is the most wanted 3rd party fighter that needs its series a revival but has a very low chance to join in as a fighter just before dataminers discovered two Rareware IPs within the files of Smash Ultimate.

 

[Organization XIII]

If people are being honest then they'd admit they have no factual basis to assume that ATs can't be DLC. We've only had one DLC period prior and it was a period where they had no intention of adding in new Nintendo characters for DLC. We did get Corrin but Sakurai admitted that he only happened due to an executive asking him to add a character for promotion so we don't actually know how DLC affects ATs as Sakurai has never once commented on the idea. The only thing ATs hard deconfirm are base additions. Of course, none of this means we will get AT promotions as DLC but we do know ATs can be promoted to playable characters and that they have a standard for taking ATs out of rotation under certain conditions so it's entirely possible. I don't expect it to happen but I doubt Sakurai makes characters ATs to take them out of the running for DLC when he is making the game at the start of development. In conclusion: are ATs deconfirms for DLC? No. Are AT promotions for DLC likely to happen? No.

 

[T-Donor66]

If people are being honest then they'd admit they have no factual basis to assume that ATs can't be DLC. We've only had one DLC period prior and it was a period where they had no intention of adding in new Nintendo characters for DLC. We did get Corrin but Sakurai admitted that he only happen due to an executive asking him to add a character for promotion so we don't actually know how DLC affects ATs as Sakurai has never once commented on the idea. The only thing ATs hard deconfirm are base additions. Of course, none of this means we will get AT promotions as DLC but we do know ATs can be promoted to playable characters and that they have a standard for taking ATs out of rotation under certain conditions so it's entirely possible. I don't expect it to happen but I doubt Sakurai makes characters ATs to take them out of the running for DLC when he is making the game at the start of development. In conclusion: are ATs deconfirms for DLC? No. Are AT promotions for DLC likely to happen? No.

Thank you. You put it way more eloquently then I could. People are under the impression the DLC roster has been decided since the beginning of Ultimates development.

 

[Arcadenik]

I believe spirits deconfirm characters.

Piranha Plant is not a spirit.

You’d think that Piranha Plant spirit could be upgraded to Petey Piranha spirit and yet it’s Nipper Plant spirit that upgrades to Petey Piranha spirit.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I personally think the likeliness of having an AT or spirit promotion increases the longer the DLC would go on. More fighters beyond the fighters pass could still happen seeing how profitable Smash is but I'm not discounting the possibility that it won't. Although I feel like it is pretty low but not impossible for the fighter pass lineup containing characters like this as it's being quote on quote "unpredictable". WaddleMatt before me already has solid points regarding how they aren't as unlikely as people think

 

[Sudz]

See you February 2020 or sooner

I look forward to it!