Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Eldrake]

The only 4chan post I recall getting a kick out of was the Chad Ganondorf post the Grinch leak incorporated because it was basically try hard self-parody.

Linking for salty language.

Hard to believe that there was people who thought this post was even remotely plausible as a legit leak.

 

[Nekoo]

Of course there would be a potential 4chan leak that guess the date right three months before the direct when everyone said and thought there would be a september direct or that the fighter would be shown in september.
Of course.

What are the ****ing odds.

I ****ing hate you 4chan, lemme, my hopes and my poor heart alone.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

1. Wouldn't matter that much. The hues and the solid color are very different from each other as is. However, using the n64 model is also still a great idea in further showing a popular design as is. They've done stuff like this with Mr. Game & Watch being a 3D model flattened, so they can still do unique models that "aren't high quality" like others. I agree with the idea, but I don't think it's necessary to tell them apart.

You would need something to distinguish a metal Mario from Metal Mario though, as well as Metal Mario from metal Metal Mario. Having him turn into his N64 appearance would probably be the only way to do that since the only difference between metal Mario and metal Metal Mario would be their texture work, and the fact that metal Mario has irises & pupils even if they're nearly impossible to see. Neither would be something I'd quiz players on mid-match.

 

[Momotsuki]

PapaGenos has already made a video on this new Sora “leak”.

This is what Papa meant when he said day of reckoning.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Considering Sora, Disney and Nintendo have a bit of an odd relationship.

On the one hand Nintendo put the spotlight on that Disney 3DS game remake at the recent direct but on the other hand, Nintendo's made a Pokemon movie with one competitor, is making a Mario movie with another and has a theme part with a third one.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I just realized that Sora's technically a western character

He is, right?

 

[Nekoo]

Also, at the very least. Props for the fake leak to not do the mistake of saying Square-Enix for the Music owner, but actually saying Disney Music, which is the parent company of WDR

Now, I'll just go back expecting Cinderace or Cat Goomba, so I dont become delusional
If it's right, **** yeah, if it's wrong, it's 4chan, which is a real life sized Monkey typing on a keyboard experiment

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I just realized that Sora's technically a western character

He is, right?

It’s Disney Japan who made Sora, not Disney USA.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm taking a break from schoolwork (bruh moment in itself) so I'll just ask this for fun

What do y'all think is a western company that's very likely to get a character in CP11?

Well putting my personal bias for Sgt. Cortez aside, the only western companies I believe even have a shot of having the final spot in this pass are Ubisoft, Activision and Bethesda.

Ubisoft has Rayman and I think he is either getting a mii costume or nothing at all, same for Activision's Crash and Bethesda's Doom Guy.

 

[Nekoo]

It’s Disney Japan who made Sora, not Disney USA.

It's funny because neither of them made Sora, it's Square-Enix and Nomura who did it. Disney, in general, not japan or USA that has the rights however.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

It’s Disney Japan who made Sora, not Disney USA.

Ah, thank you. Didn't know that.
But Sora's still under the ownership of Disney as a whole, and it being an American company, does this mean he's western with a sprinkle of eastern?

 

[Shroob]

So people lost their minds over a leak while I was asleep, and it's already debunked?


K then

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Also, at the very least. Props for the fake leak to not do the mistake of saying Square-Enix for the Music owner, but actually saying Disney Music, which is the parent company of WDR

No props to the fake leaker to actually go back a day before the September direct and remake their leak to change the date to the September direct and render their original post void in comparison.

So people lost their minds over a leak while I was asleep, and it's already debunked?


K then

And it had just what it needed to remain alive until the final reveal. But the anonymous poster had to remake the same leak and change the date three days ago instead of leaving it at October 5.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I just realized that Sora's technically a western character

He is, right?

Well legally, but it's in the same way that Diddy Kong is a Japanese character.

i.e. Diddy is a British made character that was made to fit in a Japanese made series while Sora's a Japanese made character that was made to fit in 60 years worth of American fairy tale animations

 

[Nekoo]

No props to the fake leaker to actually go back a day before the September direct and remake their leak to change the date to the September direct and render their original post void in comparison.

To be fair, it's 4chan, so no idea if it's the same person or not, or a random coicidence.

That's what I mean by saying it's a monkey typing on a keyboard experiment

 

[N3ON]

Hard to believe that there was people who thought this post was even remotely plausible as a legit leak.

Tbf the guy behind the ESRB leak named himself "Mother****ing Leaker"

To disprove the Grinch leak you were going to need more than someone being characteristically abrasive on 4chan

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Ah, I missed the 4chan nonsense.

Well, this may be it's last hurrah.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Sora would be a pretty magical end to Ultimate. Grew up with KH so I'd be happy. I don't think he's ever happening tho because of all the legal mumbo jumbo with Disney and/or Square. Prove me wrong pls.

or give me Chief

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

To be fair, it's 4chan, so no idea if it's the same person or not, or a random coicidence.

There are coincidences, and there are using the same four major elements in your leak with just the date changing.
Sure we have absolutely no proof it's the same person. But it's way too specific, and the September poster larping a two months old posts that received no reply at all is extremely unlikely.

 

[Shroob]

There are coincidences, and there are using the same four major elements in your leak with just the date changing.
Sure we have absolutely no proof it's the same person. But it's way too specific, and the September poster larping a two months old posts that received no reply at all is extremely unlikely.

But I thought that

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So people lost their minds over a leak while I was asleep, and it's already debunked?


K then

Just another day on the Smashboards newcomer thread.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ha

it’s the base game spec days where we’d hunt out leaks only for them to be disproven relatively quickly

gotta have one last shot at those glory days I guess uwu

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing I have to wonder is, if it is Kingdom Hearts what would the music situation be? Naturualy there's the Disney Music itself and I don't think the universe is ready for Kirby and Sephiroth to fight to the tune of It's a Small World. Then there's the licencing of the songs made for KH as I think the musicians have to have a cut somewhere.

 

[chocolatejr9]

PapaGenos has already made a video on this new Sora “leak”.

New Smash Leak: exists

PapaGenos: I am speed.

 

[Nekoo]

There are coincidences, and there are using the same four major elements in your leak with just the date changing.

Welcome to smash Leaks, where this happens constantly with 4chan fake leaks, where there the same 4 element repeated,so people think it's real, or it's fake.

Again, never believe anything from 4chan, but this situation happened literally with Ultimate too

 

[Baba]

Wait how'd the sora thing get debunked?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Wait how'd the sora thing get debunked?

There's another post that was made three days ago, just before the September direct, that reenacted the same thing that was posted in July (I work at Disney Music, they asked for Kingdom Hearts music during the streaming event, Sora is the final character), with the difference being the date in the second post.

Here's a direct comparison:

September 22

It's Sora. I work for Disney Music, Nintendo paid a heft sum for some music from Kingom Hearts for a "streaming event" in September. It's 100% Sora for Smash Brothers.

July 30

actual info here: i work for disney music, nintendo called last week to request rights to several tracks from kingdom hearts to use in a "digital event" on October 5. sora is the last Smash characer

Sure, it's not confirmed it's the same person. But with how obscure the original post was and how similar both of these stories are, I don't believe for a second it's someone impersonating an obscure leak. Because if the July post is real, that would mean the second guy decided to copy a two months old leak that didn't get any reply.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There's another post that was made three days ago, just before the September direct, that reenacted the same thing that was posted in July (I work at Disney Music, they asked for Kingdom Hearts music during the streaming event, Sora is the final character), with the difference being the date in the second post.

Here's a direct comparison:

September 22


July 30

Can’t even spell hefty right smh

 

[Baba]

There's another post that was made three days ago, just before the September direct, that reenacted the same thing that was posted in July (I work at Disney Music, they asked for Kingdom Hearts music during the streaming event, Sora is the final character), with the difference being the date in the second post.

Here's a direct comparison:

September 22


July 30

Oh okay I saw that I wasn't sure if there was something else.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You would need something to distinguish a metal Mario from Metal Mario though, as well as Metal Mario from metal Metal Mario. Having him turn into his N64 appearance would probably be the only way to do that since the only difference between metal Mario and metal Metal Mario would be their texture work, and the fact that metal Mario has irises & pupils even if they're nearly impossible to see. Neither would be something I'd quiz players on mid-match.

The Metal Box item does slightly include the color's darkness/etc. from the costumes now, but yeah, I remembered it clearly differently from how it is now. They're not the same as Brawl's version where it's pretty much classic Metal Mario(just, you know, higher quality), they're slightly different at best. So, you know, crappy differences.

Anyway, N64 Model is best. But I still question what a good way to make his Metal Box form should be. Any thoughts?

 

[Sigran101]

Every single Echo has had exact weight. (As did Dr. Mario, the only one who could've been easily considered an Echo without issues, despite the two-time veteran status).

So it's unlikely he'd be labeled one if this is an actual rule(it's consistent enough that it's better to treat it as one). That, and a lot of his stats are different due to him being inherently stronger, which not even Ken or Dr. Mario has. They're both more similar to their counterparts stat-wise than Metal Mario is from regular Mario in the end.

Not saying they can't or won't do it, but the details we have imply he'd probably be another regular clone. I'm all for it if Weight doesn't matter though. Giga Bowser would also be a cool one for Bowser in the same way.

Now, one thing to note is that the Metal effect is no longer solid, but a hue(almost like a highlight) of the character's colors. This means he's actually different from the Metal Box effect that Mario would have, making it a viable option. I won't deny they're... pretty similar, though. Another issue is what the Metal Box would even do for Metal Mario. He'd likely have a Gold Mario costume/color anyway, so it wouldn't exactly make sense to apply it. Maybe give him something like armor pieces that's unique to Smash? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that one. Of course, if the Metal Box is removed for this alone, it wouldn't matter. XD

I think the definition of echo is pretty loose. Some are exactly the same but with different animations, Chrom has an entire different move, and Ken has multiple different moves and is faster and weaker iirc. There's no reason Metal Mario wouldn't count if Ken does. The metal box I didn't think of though. I don't play with items so I forgot that was even there. I guess it would just make Metal Mario even heavier. The character wouldn't be Mario with the metal box, it would be a character with it's own base stats. It should work the same way it does with any character.

 

[BlondeLombax]

All I know is that if anyone here has plans for any drinking games (not me, I’m zealously sober), don’t have a shot for every “NO” you see in the live chats during the presentation. You will most likely die.

 

[Theguy123]

All I know is that if we get Through FP11 and there’s no Layton content whatsoever imma be sad knowing the closest we got to Layton content is Marth

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Every single Echo has had exact weight. (As did Dr. Mario, the only one who could've been easily considered an Echo without issues, despite the two-time veteran status).

So it's unlikely he'd be labeled one if this is an actual rule(it's consistent enough that it's better to treat it as one). That, and a lot of his stats are different due to him being inherently stronger, which not even Ken or Dr. Mario has. They're both more similar to their counterparts stat-wise than Metal Mario is from regular Mario in the end.

Not saying they can't or won't do it, but the details we have imply he'd probably be another regular clone. I'm all for it if Weight doesn't matter though. Giga Bowser would also be a cool one for Bowser in the same way.

Now, one thing to note is that the Metal effect is no longer solid, but a hue(almost like a highlight) of the character's colors. This means he's actually different from the Metal Box effect that Mario would have, making it a viable option. I won't deny they're... pretty similar, though. Another issue is what the Metal Box would even do for Metal Mario. He'd likely have a Gold Mario costume/color anyway, so it wouldn't exactly make sense to apply it. Maybe give him something like armor pieces that's unique to Smash? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that one. Of course, if the Metal Box is removed for this alone, it wouldn't matter. XD

As for the “Metal Mario is just Mario with a Metal Box” thing, they could always give Metal Mario a more polygon-style look, like the Metal Mario costume in Super Mario Odyssey did and how the Mii Costume for Akira operates as well

 

[Momotsuki]

We're talking Metal Mario~? I've actually worked on programming him as a fullclone, through modding Ultimate. I've been learning Rust in the process!
My current implementation is unfinished, but so far...

- His weight is drastically increased to be heavier not only than Mario, but moreso than even Mario with the Metal Box. He's around 3-4 times Bowser's weight.

- He has an enhanced form of Bowser's Tough Guy that's actually more effective. For example, the vast majority of the rosters' tilts would get no-sell'd. It's extremely potent which necessitates his crippling weaknesses, as they are listed below...

- His mobility is absolutely butchered. It's worse than not only Mario but even Doc. He's slower on the ground, has poorer air speed, and a lower jump. His jump-squat is increased to eight frames, as well.

- His falling speed is raised dramatically to be twice Mario's. Well faster than even Fox, it does a lot to make it very, very difficult to recover when the opponent does manage to get you offstage. His best tool for doing such is his airdodge.

I'd like to give him some new moves in the future, but for now it's just the attributes. Here's some video~!

Spoiler: YouTube embed

Metal Mario is a twisted mockery of Mario's jack-of-all-trades design philosophy; a character of terrifyingly powerful strengths and comically damaging weaknesses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Metal Box item does slightly include the color's darkness/etc. from the costumes now, but yeah, I remembered it clearly differently from how it is now. They're not the same as Brawl's version where it's pretty much classic Metal Mario(just, you know, higher quality), they're slightly different at best. So, you know, crappy differences.

Anyway, N64 Model is best. But I still question what a good way to make his Metal Box form should be. Any thoughts?

Not sure why I didn't specify this before, but I thought it would be best to make his Metal Box form the N64 model. I think it would play out like this:

• Mario and Metal Mario would be different because one is metal and the other isn't.
• metal Mario and Metal Mario would be different because the former is much less shiny than the latter. (Metal Mario isn't very shiny in his renders, but his models in Mario Kart are super shiny.)
• metal Mario and metal Metal Mario would be different because entirely different models.
• The same would apply to Metal Mario and metal Metal Mario.

Dunno if that's exactly how it would work in practice.

 

[Sucumbio]

Eh, once you get past the culture, lurking some boards can be fun. Others can be very not-fun. /b/ and /pol/ are the obvious ****holes you'd want to stay away from, but there're certainly others.

*goes there now cause I love **** holes. *

 

[Aerospherology]

July 30th 4chan comment https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/565589861/#565642448

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the definition of echo is pretty loose. Some are exactly the same but with different animations, Chrom has an entire different move, and Ken has multiple different moves and is faster and weaker iirc. There's no reason Metal Mario wouldn't count if Ken does. The metal box I didn't think of though. I don't play with items so I forgot that was even there. I guess it would just make Metal Mario even heavier. The character wouldn't be Mario with the metal box, it would be a character with it's own base stats. It should work the same way it does with any character.

Stats aren't actually loose. With the exception of Ken having a different speed a bit, everybody has the exact same stats. Ken is treated as "a fairly big exception" and even compared to Dr. Mario as he borders being a regular clone over an Echo. Dr. Mario is also noted as a clone who borders on being close to an Echo. But still holds the same weight value and most of the same stats. It's not a good example to use stats as loose when they blatantly aren't for Echoes.

Moveset is the only thing that's loose, since it's more about "how easy is it is to make the moveset work from the base or borrow from other characters". Dark Pit copied Light Arrow, for instance, so easy to program. Chrom's main unique move is borrowed from Ike, etc. These aren't what I'd call "major" differences in terms of development requirements. Animations still require obviously more than an alt costume, of course, but they aren't nearly that loose. The big thing Chrom and Lucina even have is removing the sweetspot mechanic. So basically Giga Bowser is actually extremely close to what an Echo is other than stats, as every move is basically a revision of Bowser's. Metal Mario obviously is bar the stats, being an exact clone of Mario(albeit, he's only an actual character in the N64 game, but he'd probably just be Melee Mario at best? Or at least focused to be akin to that. Dr. Mario in a sense has the whole point of heavier/stronger than Metal Mario has, while still having his own clear attributes too).

Even then, movesets in most cases aren't actually loose outside of Ken. There's usually one minor or big changed move, sometimes a mechanical change(Lucina) that overall affects the way they fight, but still shares the same overall moveset as their base. I don't even need to go into bad ones like Daisy who doesn't have anything different besides a hurtbox on a very select few moves/animations/taunts. -_- Dark Samus has electricity only but the moveset is pretty much the same otherwise. Richter has one slightly different move(which rarely comes up), and I'm not sure if his hurtbox changes for some animations among taunts/idles/etc.

In the end, Ken is the only one who plays loose with how Echoes generally are. He's not the normal one. Lucina and Chrom are more or less kind of the most neutral in terms of changes. Same stats, slight change to how they play, sometimes a new move. That's the usual Echo thing is they aren't almost identical(see Daisy for a case of "99.999999999999999% the same. Richter is more like 95% due to one move being relevant rarely).

Not sure why I didn't specify this before, but I thought it would be best to make his Metal Box form the N64 model. I think it would play out like this:

• Mario and Metal Mario would be different because one is metal and the other isn't.
• metal Mario and Metal Mario would be different because the former is much less shiny than the latter. (Metal Mario isn't very shiny in his renders, but his models in Mario Kart are super shiny.)
• metal Mario and metal Metal Mario would be different because entirely different models.
• The same would apply to Metal Mario and metal Metal Mario.

Dunno if that's exactly how it would work in practice.

But then how do you tell Metal Mario and regular Metal Box Mario apart if they're almost identical otherwise? Cause I thought the point you were making is Metal Mario wouldn't look different enough from the Metal Box form. I know there's the iris stuff, but these are very difficult to tell apart. Slightly different hues are bad as costumes too, so...

That said, it's a cool idea if you can already tell Metal Mario and Metal Box Mario apart without the N64 model first. I'm fine with whatever works~

Or did you mean Mario turns into his N64 Metal Mario model instead? If so, what does Metal Mario gain from the Metal Box? Cause that's where I think a problem arises.

 

[Shroob]

July 30th 4chan comment https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/565589861/#565642448

Old news by now. We've been discussing this since early this morning.