Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[FreeFox]

So is every Fire Emblem game. We don't need 8 Fire Emblem characters in Smash though.

Fro what I heard, Fates isnt as warmly received.

He's fun to play. But to act like he's a good inclusion is laughable to me.

Why is it laughable? He is a cool character from a good game. Shouldnt that be enough?

 

[Ivander]

Better.

Palicos.

And we get this banger of a song to go with them.

When the joke character with a gag/joke music track becomes S-tier.
---
Anyway, I enjoy playing Byleth. And the stage is very nice visually. And the music is good. So all in all, I'm good with Byleth.

 

[DuskFleur]

Are we really doing the “Fire Emblem and Byleth sucks” discourse again? Man, I knew Byleth haters were stubborn, but it’s been over a year and a half! Just move on already.
Besides, Three Houses is still a well loved game, especially in Japan, where Byleth was, in fact, a popular choice for a fighter. The vocal Western fans have such a hate boner, I swear…

 

[WahHahaha]

Why is it laughable? He is a cool character from a good game. Shouldnt that be enough?

You can judge his moveset however you want. I agree that he's fun to play. The point is that we didn't need another Fire Emblem generic protagonist to promote a game that just came out.

Personally I'm never gonna see Byleth as a good inclusion no matter how much fun he is to play though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And before people call me out for being a Waluigi supporter. The Mario franchise is actually missing a few important/popular characters namely Waluigi and Toad.

For Fire Emblem, it's just "lets add the 57th random blue haired sword character with no personality just because a new Fire Emblem game came out and needs to be promtoed"

Real talk though, Toad would absolutely work great as a final character since he's easily one of the most iconic and popular Nintendo characters that have yet to be playable in Smash.

Are we really doing the “Fire Emblem and Byleth sucks” discourse again? Man, I knew Byleth haters were stubborn, but it’s been over a year and a half! Just move on already.
Besides, Three Houses is still a well loved game, especially in Japan, where Byleth was, in fact, a popular choice for a fighter. The vocal Western fans have such a hate boner, I swear…

It's Byleth's day and the whole point of these conversations are to talk about different DLC characters per day. Criticism is very much on-topic, especially as even BK got hate on their day.

 

[WahHahaha]

Real talk though, Toad would absolutely work great as a final character since he's easily one of the most iconic and popular Nintendo characters that have yet to be playable in Smash.

He would be ok. The only reason I posted this is because people say "BUT YOU SUPPORT WALUIGI AND WE HAVE MORE MARIO CHARACTERS THAN FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS!" basically every time I argue about this.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

It is kind of weird though that some series seem to be entitled to having their latest added, when some other series are struggling to have their frontrunners added for multiple games in a row. If Kirby or Zelda would get the treatment that Fire Emblem and Pokémon are getting, we would’ve gotten a lot of unique and fan-favorite characters.

 

[Jondolio]

Instead of arguing about Byleth for the 243809542896th time, how about we talk about literally anything else?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

With the rumored Final Fantasy IX cartoon in development, I’m curious if they would go with someone from that game if we ever got a third FF character. I wonder if they’d go with Zidane, Garnet, Vivi, or someone else.

It's not rumoured, it was officially announced

If there's more than 0 facts to prove it, then why not bring a few?

In all honesty most people have unintentionally replied to my musing by now lmao. "Would Byleth be more accepted if he were anyone else" is basically what I asked and it's looking like a resounding yes.

As for cacomallow there's a lot of nuance to why people didn't buy into some **** like Geesecube being an acceptable "proof" about complex mii hats but maybe you overlooked the whole conversation about the compression issue or the thing that I brought up that active modders at the time said it wasn't something that could be done/easily done with the methods available at the time. I don't know how Doom Guy people reacted to it but Geno people generally gave it a shelf life and dropped it after that, with some limited memes keeping it alive. Sorry if you fell for ****posts and now you're mad about it.

1: Monster Hunter's weapons function too differently, which was already brought up a few minutes ago, meaning even if this conspiracy theory is to believed that a deal fell through, too much would need to be changed to make Byleth fit this Hunter moveset

2: The deal falling through makes no sense as Capcom loves pushing Monster Hunter with other series and fighting games, even Ashley from Warioware was used to promote this, with the guy in charge of the games being literal family of Capcom's CEO. Combine this with Sakurai's clout and how they already cooperated for MH content in Smash multiple times by the time this supposedly happened.

There's no nuance about people insisting it still meant something months after it was confirmed bull****

 

[WahHahaha]

It is kind of weird though that some series seem to be entitled to having their latest added, when some other series are struggling to have their frontrunners added for multiple games in a row. If Kirby or Zelda would get the treatment that Fire Emblem and Pokémon are getting, we would’ve gotten a lot of unique and fan-favorite characters.

And Mario too. Whether you like it or not, it makes more sense for Toad and Waluigi to get in before another generic Fire Emblem protagonist from the latest game does.

Those 2 characters are actually popular characters from their flagship franchise. Not a blue haired swordsman that nobody can name and looks the exact same as almost every other Fire Emblem character. I wouldn't be surprised if some casual Smash players genuinely think every Fire Emblem character is just Marth.

 

[DuskFleur]

It's Byleth's day and the whole point of these conversations are to talk about different DLC characters per day. Criticism is very much on-topic, especially as even BK got hate on their day.

Banjo and Kazooie getting hate? Now THAT I find hard to believe. The only kind of “hate” I’ve seen of those two is in regards to their move set being “boring” or whatever. In terms of their overall conclusion, everyone in the West loves them to an obnoxious degree.

 

[WahHahaha]

The Fire Emblem characters really should have stopped at Ike, it's debatable whether he should have been included too, but it's better to have one promotional Fire Emblem character than 15 of them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

And Mario too. Whether you like it or not, it makes more sense for Toad and Waluigi to get in before another generic Fire Emblem protagonist from the latest game does.

Well, yes, but Mario did get two newcomers per game outside of Brawl. My point was about series that don’t get the priority like Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem do, not about naming every series that would make for more interesting newcomers than Fire Emblem period.

 

[Schnee117]

Mans going for a full bingo on the "Greatest Hits of Fire Emblem Hate"

 

[WahHahaha]

Well, yes, but Mario did get two newcomers per game outside of Brawl. My point was about series that don’t get the priority like Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem do, not about naming every series that would make for more interesting newcomers than Fire Emblem period.

If Mario had priority over series like Fire Emblem and Pokemon we would have already had Waluigi and Toad by now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh, I see we have an expert? Do you mind elaborating upon how you know so well that you used two periods in the span of four words?

I'm sorry for being short with you, but the whole "Byleth = Monster Hunter so the latter would be redundant" and all variations of the narrative is extremely annoying.

Byleth was designed to show off the tactical gameplay of Fire Emblem, and it shows in how he uses the multiple weapons gimmick:

• The Sword of the Creator is for close quarters combat, and juggling.
• Aeredbar is for pokes and mid range zoning.
• Failnaught is for niche sniping shenanigans, and also gets used as Byleth's go to landing tool.
• Amyhr is for YOLO kills and hard reads.

Each weapon has a purpose, and you have to use them effectively to succeed as Byleth.

Monster Hunter is not a tactical game in the same way as Fire Emblem, and would have more in common with a Dark Souls character than any Fire Emblem character (unless we somehow get a Knight or something). They also wouldn't likely have "weapon master" as their gimmick since weapons are playstyles rather than strategical tools (though I wouldn't disregard the idea of other weapons being used to fill out the moveset). Instead, they would likely have a moveset that revolves around stage control with intent on putting opponents in bad situations in the neutral that they can capitalize on since their attacks are likely to be highly committal, especially if their main weapon is the greatsword.

 

[Gengar84]

Banjo and Kazooie getting hate? Now THAT I find hard to believe. The only kind of “hate” I’ve seen of those two is in regards to their move set being “boring” or whatever. In terms of their overall conclusion, everyone in the West loves them to an obnoxious degree.

I love RARE and the first Banjo-Kazooie game but I don’t particularly love them as characters. They are about on the same level as Mario to me where I like them enough but they aren’t among my favorites. My most wanted RARE characters are the Battletoads and Fulgore.

 

[WahHahaha]

The funniest thing about people defending Byleth is even Sakurai thinks there are too many Fire Emblem characters and he probably would have never included Byleth if it was up to him.

You're basically defending a character choice that was made by Nintendo. Sakurai only made the moveset. I thought people didn't defend Nintendo here because they're such a terrible company?

 

[Deleted member]

It's not rumoured, it was officially announced
1: Monster Hunter's weapons function too differently, which was already brought up a few minutes ago, meaning even if this conspiracy theory is to believed that a deal fell through, too much would need to be changed to make Byleth fit this Hunter moveset

2: The deal falling through makes no sense as Capcom loves pushing Monster Hunter with other series and fighting games, even Ashley from Warioware was used to promote this, with the guy in charge of the games being literal family of Capcom's CEO. Combine this with Sakurai's clout and how they already cooperated for MH content in Smash multiple times by the time this supposedly happened.

There's no nuance about people insisting it still meant something months after it was confirmed bull****

I'm on my way to lunch and can't post a ton but I do want to say thanks for dropping the bs and actually discussing counterpoints.

 

[Gengar84]

The funniest thing about people defending Byleth is even Sakurai thinks there are too many Fire Emblem characters and he probably would have never included Byleth if it was up to him.

You're basically defending a character choice that was made by Nintendo. Sakurai only made the moveset. I thought people didn't defend Nintendo here because they're such a terrible company?

People are free to like what they want. I loved Three Houses but would have preferred several other characters from that game. That doesn’t mean people who prefer Byleth are wrong.

 

[WahHahaha]

People are free to like what they want. I loved Three Houses but would have preferred several other characters from that game. That doesn’t mean people who prefer Byleth are wrong.

But to tirelessly defend a choice that even Sakurai doesn't agree with and was made solely by Nintendo? It just seems even more ridiculous than hating on it to me.

 

[Ivander]

The room is not that hard to read when all I'm reading is:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You're basically defending a character choice that was made by Nintendo. Sakurai only made the moveset. I thought people didn't defend Nintendo here because they're such a terrible company?

...

What even is this argument?

I mean, people call Nintendo on their BS all the time but if we truly hated them why would we be on a message board dedicated to "Nintendo (& Friends): The Video Game"?

It also reeks of fallacy, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know for sure...

 

[RouffWestie]

Here's something I'm open to admit:
Cuphead was way more popular than I gave him credit for.
I honestly didn't believe Cuphead could have reached the sort of influence overseas that he did.
He was made and owned by a small US-based indie studio, he was explicitly based on a historical period of American Animation, and still he ended up getting a Mii Costume, a song, and a set of Spirits in Smash. I guess I didn't do my research enough. As far as US-made indies went, I felt Undertale, Shovel Knight, and the Bit.Trip series were the only qualifies that had a real chance at getting any rep in Smash.

 

[FreeFox]

Banjo and Kazooie getting hate? Now THAT I find hard to believe. The only kind of “hate” I’ve seen of those two is in regards to their move set being “boring” or whatever. In terms of their overall conclusion, everyone in the West loves them to an obnoxious degree.

There were some critical points brought up about the characters during its discussed day. Mostly related to some issues of the character´s playstyle.

 

[WahHahaha]

The room is not that hard to read when all I'm reading is:

I don't care about liking it.. I only care about people tirelessly defending it and acting like it isn't a completely awful choice.

You can think he's fun, but I don't know why you'd think he's a good choice. If even the game director agrees there's too many Fire Emblem characters I would say it's a valid criticism, so I don't know why people want to invalidate it.

 

[blackghost]

It is kind of weird though that some series seem to be entitled to having their latest added, when some other series are struggling to have their frontrunners added for multiple games in a row. If Kirby or Zelda would get the treatment that Fire Emblem and Pokémon are getting, we would’ve gotten a lot of unique and fan-favorite characters.

im sorry you've had an acocunt since 2014 people have explained to DEATH why zelda doesnt get another character. zelda is repped by items, stages, and music. Zelda and its games revolve around 3 characters, and all three are in smash. When a chaarcter like midna and impa cant get in its pretty telling. Each FE game has a new cast and has fans of every cast.

Kirby basically same deal as zelda its major characters are all here.

Those 2 characters are actually popular characters from their flagship franchise. Not a blue haired swordsman that nobody can name and looks the exact same as almost every other Fire Emblem character. I wouldn't be surprised if some casual Smash players genuinely think every Fire Emblem character is just Marth.

not really. if that new FE protagnist is in one main line game he's already done more than waluigi. plus its about what higher ups want and they want FE to keep growing at its meteoric pace.

as far as generic you do get that some of them namely the standins for the player (robin, corrin, and byleth) are designed to be very basic looking for obvious reasons.

So is every Fire Emblem game. We don't need 8 Fire Emblem characters in Smash though.

Definitely not true. the fe fanbase would eat this statement alive.

By;eth was and is a great addtion: fun moveset, has competitive value, unique role. The ironic part to me is smash players have a hate boner for "generic swordsman" but love marth and roy. make it make sense.

 

[Schnee117]

...

What even is this argument?

I mean, people call Nintendo on their BS all the time but if we truly hated them why would we be on a message board dedicated to "Nintendo (& Friends): The Video Game"?

It also reeks of fallacy, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know for sure...

You hate Nintendo yet you like Byleth, curious!
You hate Nintendo yet you post on a Smash forum, curious!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't care about liking it.. I only care about people tirelessly defending it and acting like it isn't a completely awful choice.

You can think he's fun, but I don't know why you'd think he's a good choice. If even the game director agrees there's too many Fire Emblem characters I would say it's a valid criticism, so I don't know why people want to invalidate it.

Because people like having fun? News flash, we play games, so when a character is fun, they tend to be enjoyed and people like them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Banjo and Kazooie getting hate? Now THAT I find hard to believe. The only kind of “hate” I’ve seen of those two is in regards to their move set being “boring” or whatever. In terms of their overall conclusion, everyone in the West loves them to an obnoxious degree.

Not hate, just criticism in implementation.

 

[WahHahaha]

not really. if that new FE protagnist is in one main line game he's already done more than waluigi. plus its about what higher ups want and they want FE to keep growing at its meteoric pace.

This just seems like a troll argument, but if you really want to argue about this, even Koopa Paratroopa and Goomba are more important than the latest Fire Emblem protagonist. Showing up frequently in the mario franchise makes you more important than a blue haired nobody with a sword.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's something I'm open to admit:
Cuphead was way more popular than I gave him credit for.
I honestly didn't believe Cuphead could have reached the sort of influence overseas that he did.
He was made and owned by a small US-based indie studio, he was explicitly based on a historical period of American Animation, and still he ended up getting a Mii Costume, a song, and a set of Spirits in Smash. I guess I didn't do my research enough. As far as US-made indies went, I felt Undertale, Shovel Knight, and the Bit.Trip series were the only qualifies that had a real chance at getting any rep in Smash.

Especially impressive when you see the development history of the game and how the game's getting a Netflix show

 

[DuskFleur]

And now the thread has devolved into mud slinging at each other. Again.

 

[WahHahaha]

Because people like having fun? News flash, we play games, so when a character is fun, they tend to be enjoyed and people like them.

Actually listen to what I'm saying please. Enjoying it is fine, invalidating perfectly valid criticism that even the director of Smash agrees with is not.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

This is the Byleth day right? Terry's was yesterday so I guess that's why people are talking about Byleth right now.

Anyway, I don't like Byleth very much. I appreciate that he's not just a sword fighter and he plays alright but I just don't like Fire Emblem in general so his inclusion was kind of disappointing to me.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Kirby basically same deal as zelda its major characters are all here.

With the exception of Bandana Dee.

 

[Momotsuki]

I didn't really enjoy playing as Byleth when I tried them. It's weird considering I usually enjoy slower characters with meatier hits. I already wasn't terribly excited about them but I figured I'd give them a chance before writing them off. But, nothing really clicked.

Speaking of characters with debatable merit who ended up being really fun to play... Incineroar! I'd be hard-pressed to say he had any good reason to be in the game but I've come to be kind of glad he is. What a fun character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Especially impressive when you see the development history of the game and how the game's getting a Netflix show

spit takes
"FIRE EMBLEM THREE HOUSES IS GETTING A NETFL-Oh wait. That post was talking primarily about Cuphead."

I kinda forgot about the TV show, but I'm interested in seeing how well it will do. Hopefully it will be one of the first shows based on games that's a genuinely good show and not just "good for a show based on games".

 

[Jondolio]

With the exception of Bandana Dee.

Bandana Dee isn't exactly on the same level as Dedede and Meta Knight. It's the same reason we don't have Toad in the game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

spit takes
"FIRE EMBLEM THREE HOUSES IS GETTING A NETFL-Oh wait. That post was talking primarily about Cuphead."

I kinda forgot about the TV show, but I'm interested in seeing how well it will do. Hopefully it will be one of the first shows based on games that's a genuinely good show and not just "good for a show based on games".

I mean, Netflix CastleVania was excellent too and the Cuphead show has good staff members on it