Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

I kinda lost enthusiasm for discussing theories since I don't think any of them predicted Sephiroth, Bae Blades or Kazuya (unless I missed something)

I don't think a single theory has worked out since the box theory broke hearts and underwhelmed everyone. There's been no correct leaks since Terry (discounting the Min Min tweet that could have just been a lucky guess) so overall discussing theories and leaks is just something to do in this virus addled hellscape.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I kinda lost enthusiasm for discussing theories since I don't think any of them predicted Sephiroth, Bae Blades or Kazuya (unless I missed something)

As mentioned Figure Theory. Last fighter should have a figure since Sakurai stated that the last two fighters have a figure.

Take of it as you will though.

 

[kylexv]

I don't think a single theory has worked out since the box theory broke hearts and underwhelmed everyone. There's been no correct leaks since Terry (discounting the Min Min tweet that could have just been a lucky guess) so overall discussing theories and leaks is just something to do in this virus addled hellscape.

I do remember that a Reddit user by the name of PracticalBrush12 leaked both Byleth and Steve minutes before their respective reveals, but those barely count since they flew under the radar and they were so close to the reveal anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

As mentioned Figure Theory. Last fighter should have a figure since Sakurai stated that the last two fighters have a figure.

Take of it as you will though.

I have Mario figures from the late 80s and video game figures have only increased in production. Like I mentioned earlier, you have to start adding in other things to limit who the character could be for the figure to even matter, and so far the only meaningful pattern in Fighter Pass 2 is characters who have had a game release in their franchise sometime in the past half decade.

I do remember that a Reddit user by the name of PracticalBrush12 leaked both Byleth and Steve minutes before their respective reveals, but those barely count since they flew under the radar and they were so close to the reveal anyway.

I am aware of those instances, but I hardly consider Brush getting early screenings of the direct while the rest of us plebeians have to wait another 10 minutes a leak, unfair as that may be.

 

[MasterCheef]

for me if i get nothing else ___ Please let me get a Huge BUFF into top tier for Mii Gunner. Soo many of his moves are waay too slow

I don't think it'll be her as cool as she'd be, this and the championship happening the day after the presentation is likely a coincidence.

I don't believe in coincidences

 

[WahHahaha]

As mentioned Figure Theory. Last fighter should have a figure since Sakurai stated that the last two fighters have a figure.

Take of it as you will though.

No they don't. Sakurai got a custom made figure for Pyra/Mythra.

 

[FreeFox]

Are we talking about Byleth? Byleth was the strangest revelation ever for a few reasons:

1. It was FE character ending.
2. It wasnt FE character ending.
3. It was full of memes for what is an overexploited arquetype in smash.
4. It led to the weird rumor that Byleth was once a MH hunter.
5. It brought forth the least special of of DLC fighters.

 

[Jondolio]

As mentioned Figure Theory. Last fighter should have a figure since Sakurai stated that the last two fighters have a figure.

Take of it as you will though.

Fellas I think I cracked it

Holy ****, Goku confirmed!

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It's going to be a long 6 days.

I suggest everyone finds a project or something else to keep them occupied.
I've got a bunch of Mario Lego to put together. Probably would have put it all together a long time ago if it came with actual manuals.

 

[Sucumbio]

I don't believe in coincidences

Says the fox to the hound.

 

[FreeFox]

It's going to be a long 6 days.

I suggest everyone finds a project or something else to keep them occupied.
I've got a bunch of Mario Lego to put together. Probably would have put it all together a long time ago if it came with actual manuals.

I got NASB for extra entertainment. We should be getting another character trailer to keep myself ccupied with.

 

[Sucumbio]

I got NASB for extra entertainment. We should be getting another character trailer to keep myself ccupied with.

How do you like the game so far?

 

[SKX31]

6 days remaining

Byleth: The Ashen Demon that caused a lot of salt for him/her being the last one for FP1 on initial reveal.

Yeah, another FE rep means automatic salt for the internet and boy did everyone see it. Of course, it wasn't over for DLC yet since FP2 was announced with 6 more characters coming soon.......which eventually lead to this trailer for the next one saved for tomorrow.

. Not-Dante. Distance Demon. The teacher who's sadly fated to indirectly cause fights whether in-universe or out of their universe.

Reach for my hand.

Byleth's initial reaction is positively infamous. Due to a myriad of reasons that have been gone over loads of times both here and in other places. Not only were the Western fanbase in particular deeply divided over the number of FE characters that got in during Smash 4's lifetime or how they overall took from much of the same design space. Sakurai's evident desire to have the FE characters fight tactically / strategically has had its ups and downs, and Byleth continues that roller coaster. The reveal trailer had its own share of jank, which didn't help.

Another aspect that remains contentious is the moveset, with several members here having proposed the Divine Pulse and related attacks as well as attacks that hew closer to what Byleth actually does. The reason why they went the weaponmaster route might never be explained in full, but potential explanations is giving Byleth's most prominent students - Dmitri, Claude and Edelgard - some prominence alongside Byleth, to save precious development time, and / or whatever else really. I think we'll simply have to see if Byleth returns with the next installments.

Their competitive status is in a weird place, and has been ever since they were released. They're very infrequent in competitive spaces - the "Most historically significant players" only list two players. And their only really well-known player is, yes, MKLeo. Who picked them up instantly after they released and proceeded to gel really nicely with how they play. There have been some hiccups for him along the way - most notably during The Bad Year when people were stuck playing online, and Byleth's reputation was at its nadir. Still though, MKLeo entered 2021 and returning offline events with a goal, and boy howdy did he continue to wreck face. His recent tournament wins have caused quite a lot of re-evaluation of the character as of late - even as other players are slowly getting used to his Byleth and opinions seem rather mixed even if much more positive than the nadir.

Byleth's moveset lean heavily towards strategic use, and nowhere is this more evident than their Specials. Failnaught takes a while to charge, but shoots a fast arrow at half charge or a beam of light at full charge. It can be charge-cancelled too (although not when commiting to full charge), making it a good way to bait approaches. Areadbhar covers a lot of space and can kill rather early if one hits with the blade - but lags quite a bit and anyone else can punish it if shielded, encouraging careful use. It's also good at covering the ledge, whether Byleth's about to recover or edgeguarding. The Sword of the Creator is an atypical tether grab, not least since if it hits the opponent is launched horizontally pre-50 % and in an untechable spike post-50% - leading to followups like Up-B -> Side-B, It's also a great Out of Shield option and cancels all knockback if used in the air, lending a lot of defensive utility. Aymr is a really heavy axe swing, taking seemingly forever to charge but has super armor on the ground and hits like a truck. Since it's really risky but rewarding it's mostly used for hard reads.

The normals also follow this philosophy, with some stand out moves to help Byleth keep control and play the strategic game. F-Tilt and U-Tilt cover a lot of space and can knock people back quite far. D-Tilt and N-Air are good combo starter that can lead into a variety of attacks. F-Air and B-Air deal a lot of damage when tippered and send people likewise far away. U-Air is one of the best juggling moves in the game period, excellent at keeping people up there. The Smash attacks are heavily commital but if they hit properly they can KO surprisingly early - D-Smash is of particular note since it deals a ton of shield damage, as does the other axe move D-Air.

The weaponmaster is not without weaknesses though. Their movement stats are some of the slowest in the game, making any approach commital and making most combos pretty damn precise. Since their moveset is so focused around powerful attacks used strategically, counters and reflectors are extremely dangeous to Byleth. In addition, most of their attacks come with a caveat attached, whether endlag, start-up or narrow hitbox: which combine to leave Byleth very vurnerable in case those attacks miss or in some cases shielded. In short, Byleth's a very momentum-based character with little in-between, sometimes they can come to pressure and blow up people to kingdom come, other times they can feel like they're being overrun.

Casually Byleth is going to come down to a number of different factors. Not just whether the Byleth player has the momentum, but also whether or not they can establish enough stage control to profit off it. Their AoE is very impressive to help just clear away groups of opponents, and their abundance of defensive options do help them stay in the fray. Their weight is not the greatest though (tied with and ) - which might be more of an issue casually not only since counters and reflectors are more commonly used but also since casual FFAs often have really powerful items.

When it comes to Byleth's Challenger Pack, not 100 % a fan. The stage is a good idea, Garreg Mach is central to 3H and including a bunch of neat cameos is a good idea in principle. I'm not as convinced that the execution's all there though - compared to other stages with background cameos not many of the 3H cameos are doing interesting stuff. The only exception I can think of is the Pegasus Knight. Sure, you can't expect all cameos to do interesting stuff, but the Phantom Thieves, Aegis' companions and Heihachi react to what's going on. Also, walk-off at certain points of the stage. I have a personal distate for 'em (except KOF Stadium, which took pains to solve the primary issue I have).

The music is actually really good if you ask me - I've come to appriciate the main theme in particular. The key omission now that I've listened to it is God-Shattering Star though. The Spirits are also well-represented from 3H, although I think they could've added some additional cameos.

All in all, Byleth's legacy in Smash will remain contentious - but make no mistake. Those who underestimate Byleth on the battlefield might get a rude awakening, because (s)he brought all the weapons to bear. And I can respect that decision to come to Smash prepared.

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Byleth has very votalite matchups vs. characters with strong grab games. stands out in particular: not least since Byleth has a character-specific OHKO combo on DK but also since if DK gets the upper hand he can lay on the damage on them - and KO early - in turn. But also , and are notable examples. In those cases Byleth really wants to avoid getting grabbed at all costs.)

 

[FreeFox]

How do you like the game so far?

I must say that there is some fascinating character design (some quite creative decisions). We are getting daily (except weekends) trailers for the characters so it has been great getting to know the special qualities of each character and stage. Stages look nice design wise and I love that for the most part stage hazards dont seem to be overbearing even when present. Obviously the music and sfx could still use work but Rep (the leading developer says there is a patch coming first day that fixes some notable sound issues.) Some of the characters have been compared to classic melee main stays like Fox, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. Overall, it has been a cool experience even if kinda rushed. But hey, I´ll rather take a short one than along one.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Byleth's reveal would've worked for a Nintendo Direct imo.
FE 3H DLC but then Sothis says "Join Smash" and BAM, out of nowhere, an unexpected but cool announcement.

 

[Momotsuki]

It's going to be a long 6 days.

I suggest everyone finds a project or something else to keep them occupied.
I've got a bunch of Mario Lego to put together. Probably would have put it all together a long time ago if it came with actual manuals.

I'm always occupied with one project or another, This thread's just a pit stop I frequent. Sometimes it's to do with Smash, other times it's not. I should plug away at my net art website some more - kind of formatted as a VN mixed with surrealist point-and-click adventure...
It's linked in my About if anyone's interested... just be wary of epilepsy and occasional language.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I kinda lost enthusiasm for discussing theories since I don't think any of them predicted Sephiroth, Bae Blades or Kazuya (unless I missed something)

Kazuya has a figure, but that didn't help us guess him.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

He's got a figure
We're safe, boys

And yes, if you've been noticing I've been posting and mentioning Ezio quite a bit. I am GENUINLY starting to think it could be him, if we're talking 3rd party options ofc. I won't deny the likely 1st party options but I digress. I can even say that I wouldn't be TOO surprised if we get Ezio first and not Rayman (although with most companies their platforms icon reps first, Mega Man for Capcom before Ryu, Banjo before Steve for Microsoft, Sonic for SEGA, etc.)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The reason why they went the weaponmaster route might never be explained in full, but potential explanations is giving Byleth's most prominent students - Dmitri, Claude and Edelgard - some prominence alongside Byleth, to save precious development time, and / or whatever else really.

From what Sakurai has said, it sounds like the weapon master angle was literally just to try and make him seem like more than "just another blue haired anime swordsman".

 

[Speed Weed]

Hey Speed Weed we got another one

osby has always been one of us

I knew he was based from the start

-------------------------------

Anyway, I've been thinking about yesterday and I decided I'm going through with the idea of just doing big writeups shilling SEGA games from time to time. Not even necessarily about their prospects in Smash, just generally spreading the word of these games and their legacy and whatnot, just to finally take measures in actively combatting the warped perceptions I've been complaining about oh so often. I don't know when I'll push out my first writeup just yet - could be as early as tonight or as late as this weekend - but I've already decided on a game

 

[MattX20]

To this day, I can't think of one thing I like about Byleth. I genuinely try to find good things in every character we've had in Smash, and even Corrin who was the least well received character for Smash 4 had a few things I liked. Byleth however is the rare case where I can't find anything, not the music, not the spirit board, not the moveset (the idea of a multi weapon user like this is great in concept, but was poorly executed in this case), and when compared to the other fighters in the pass and Piranha Plant, felt rushed and incomplete. It's especially evident with Terry who preceded Byleth. With Terry, his moveset felt complete and wasn't missing anything important, and the content was very substantial. Byleth by comparison felt like the developers just wrote down the barebones execution of the concept on a cocktail napkin one night at the bar.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Many will likely agree that Byleth was most likely the worst DLC as well as newcomer of Ultimate.

 

[osby]

Byleth salt almost two years after their reveal?

Why didn't you guys warn me, I'd bring popcorn sooner.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Many will likely agree that Byleth was most likely the worst DLC as well as newcomer of Ultimate.

Byleth is one of the most fun to play though.

Seriously, my favorite DLC character to play.

 

[MattX20]

Byleth is one of the most fun to play though.

Seriously, my favorite DLC character to play.

I must respectfully disagree. I found Byleth's moveset cumbersome and not much to fun play as. All the other DLC characters I didn't have this problem with

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I must respectfully disagree. I found Byleth's moveset cumbersome and not much to fun play as. All the other DLC characters I didn't have this problem with

Hey that's fine. People have different taste when it comes to playstyle.

I don't like rushdown so Joker just feels bad for me to play, but a spacing oriented character like Byleth is right up my alley.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

No they don't. Sakurai got a custom made figure for Pyra/Mythra.

If you mean that one he showed in the presentation, pretty sure that is an official one people can buy online and all.

 

[Jondolio]

Byleth is my favorite DLC character so far due to being really fun to play and being from what is probably my favorite game on the Switch other than Smash
The only complaint I have is that they didn't come with God Shattering Star

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Hey that's fine. People have different taste when it comes to playstyle.

I don't like rushdown so Joker just feels bad for me to play, but a spacing oriented character like Byleth is right up my alley.

Broke: Not liking rushdown characters, preferring distance demons.
Woke: Liking rushdown characters, disliking distance demons.
Bespoke: Liking both rushdown characters and distance demons.

 

[Deleted member]

To this day, I can't think of one thing I like about Byleth. I genuinely try to find good things in every character we've had in Smash, and even Corrin who was the least well received character for Smash 4 had a few things I liked. Byleth however is the rare case where I can't find anything, not the music, not the spirit board, not the moveset (the idea of a multi weapon user like this is great in concept, but was poorly executed in this case), and when compared to the other fighters in the pass and Piranha Plant, felt rushed and incomplete. It's especially evident with Terry who preceded Byleth. With Terry, his moveset felt complete and wasn't missing anything important, and the content was very substantial. Byleth by comparison felt like the developers just wrote down the barebones execution of the concept on a cocktail napkin one night at the bar.

I wonder if the rumors are true that Byleth was supposed to be Monster Hunter, would people have preferred a generic avatar character with the same moveset and only hate Byleth because of Fire Emblem's unfortunate situation regarding Smash...

I don't like that we got another Fire Emblem character, but I think Byleth is a much better addition than anyone we got in 4 or Chrom. I dislike how good the recovery is and I think the moveset is a bit uninspired, but Byleth's got a neat playstyle and I can't hate him as much as I would like to. I'm pretty warm on Three Houses, so that probably helps.

Byleth is my favorite DLC character so far due to being really fun to play and being from what is probably my favorite game on the Switch other than Smash
The only complaint I have is that they didn't come with God Shattering Star

I see people complain about this all the time and I just think Sakurai played Golden Deer last, got to a specific point where he said "are you serious with this ****" and dropped it. He did complain about the story a bit in the Byleth presentation and unless one day he confirms otherwise, I'm going to my grave believing he thinks GD is a weird fanfiction.

 

[Lyncario]

Byleth salt almost two years after their reveal?

Why didn't you guys warn me, I'd bring popcorn sooner.

I prefer salt, but Smash fans salt goes well with so many things, it's amazing.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Byleth salt almost two years after their reveal?

Why didn't you guys warn me, I'd bring popcorn sooner.

At that point, just get a whole river and pour all the two years worth of salt into it and swim in it.

 

[Jondolio]

I see people complain about this all the time and I just think Sakurai played Golden Deer last, got to a specific point where he said "are you serious with this ****" and dropped it. He did complain about the story a bit in the Byleth presentation and unless one day he confirms otherwise, I'm going to my grave believing he thinks GD is a weird fanfiction.

I sure hope he didn't play Silver Snow then cause that route's story was a snorefest

 

[Deleted member]

I sure hope he didn't play Silver Snow then cause that route's story was a snorefest

hide church threads
ignore church posts
do not reply to church posters

 

[osby]

At that point, just get a whole river and pour all the two years worth of salt into it and swim in it.

I'm sure the final reveal will take care of it.

Seriously, that reveal's gonna get so much heat that it's not funny.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Imagine if it's a Monster Hunter

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Imagine if it's a Monster Hunter

Better.

Palicos.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Byleth is my least favorite DLC character, easily. But ironically I probably use her more often than the rest of the FP1 characters. I dig tanky characters so Byleth is right up my alley and plus Apex of the World is a banger.

 

[Schnee117]

I already said my small piece on Byleth yesterday but I can reiterate and expand a little

Byleth's a fine pick, not my most wanted from TH, there's Edelgard, Claude, Dorothea, Hubert, Felix, Annette, Dedue, Bernie, Shamir and Lysithea to name a few, but that was on the idea that they'd make great use of the SotC and Divine Pulse, maybe throw in some gauntlets and maybe some white magic if they felt like doing more.

But the moveset we got is kinda plain and dull beyond landing Aymr. A weapon master has a place in Smash but I'm not sure Byleth was the best choice for that, they were the prime opportunity to have a proper whipsword user in the game, most others are either Ivy Valentine, obscure as hell with a ton of competition or use one in conjunction with a dozen other weapons they're more known for.

The stage is cool and the music selection is great even if God Shattering Star is absent. Otherwise it's really just the moveset that drags them down for me.

If you mean that one he showed in the presentation, pretty sure that is an official one people can buy online and all.

I'm pretty sure they also credited Good Smile in the presentation too

 

[ShrimpScampi]

Yoooo let's go it's Byleth day

To me, it's a bummer (but understandable) that they got as mixed a reception as they did, because they wound up being one of my favorite DLC characters so far, along with Joker. Initially my reaction to them was pretty positive. I remember I had a class right when the presentation started, so I snuck away to the bathroom for the first few minutes just to see who it'd end up being. So I was sitting on the toilet laughing to myself because while they weren't one of the characters I was actively campaigning for, I still enjoyed Three Houses and thought they'd be a neat inclusion.

The music is phenomenal, minus the omission of God-Shattering Star which people have already brought up. I don't play walk-off stages much, but in terms of visual design and recognizability, I think Garreg Mach is easily the best FE stage we have. The spirit board was neat -- they definitely got a lot of mileage out of Byleth's alternate color schemes and moveset for that lol.

Speaking of the moveset, they're easily the most fun for me to play, to the point where R.O.B. lost his spot as my main in favor of Byleth. They feel very grounded compared to the crazier meter/comeback mechanic characters in the DLC passes, but I think their moveset just clicks with me. Their disjoints are powerful, nair is a godlike combo tool, and I love the game of following the opponent's DI off of the Sword of the Creator and landing a massive punish. I appreciate how the three extra weapons embody the houses, so Byleth's Smash moveset has a little taste of each of the routes (minus Silver Snow). To me it reminds me of Mementos -- Byleth doesn't actually use all three relics in-game just like how Mementos doesn't actually look like that as you're exploring it in Persona 5, but both encapsulate a major aspect of the games they come from: the Persona UI/visual style for Mementos and the multi-route structure for Three Houses. Tbh that's probably a post-hoc justification on my part, but I still like that aspect of the moveset. The buffs from the Pyra/Mythra update were also a huge blessing.

I enjoy watching MKLeo and other players like Pelupelu pushing the character to their fullest potential, although at a competitive level I do think they have some really nasty matchups that make it hard to solo main them (Leo going Byleth against ESAM initially at Glitch was an example of that).

But yeah, to me, they were a neat inclusion character-wise and a joy to play as.