Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

i'm sorry pic.twitter.com/oQUrtUs6Uc

— FalKoopa🌈 (@FalKoopa_) June 15, 2021

Lol I would love for Kazuya to have a blue suit alt.

 

[smashkirby]

PROJECT X ZONE 2 AND SMASH ULTIMATE ARE CANON TO EACH OTHER NOW THAT THEY HAVE FIVE PLAYABLE CHARACTERS IN COMMON IDEC THAT IT ISN’T KOS-MOS ANYMORE IM LEGIT POGGING

Funny you mention that, as the Kazuya artwork from today looks like it was drawn by Kazunori Haruyama. Which makes me hope for a Nintendo RPG crossover drawn by him too...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I love that we know have an official SF x Tekken game on Switch, and with a better Mega Man and Pac-Man in it to boot.

Feels fitting.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but now that I've gathered my thoughts a bit, this E3 for Nintendo felt more like a run of the mill Nintendo Direct that we'd get any time of the year as opposed to the huge event announcing big news after big news. Very 3rd party focused with cool titles sprinkled here and there like Metroid Dread, WarioWare, and Shin Megami Tensei V. At least we got new BOTW 2 footage.

I don't play the Switch for 3rd party titles, so maybe that's why I feel this way, but it's strange we didn't see more huge 1st party content. I would've loved to hear anything DK, Kirby, Pokemon, or Animal Crossing related. Advance Wars coming back is pretty cool I gotta admit.

Overall, I'd rate Nintendo's E3 a 6/10. Certainly not bad, but it didn't have enough to make me jump out of my seat at any point.

 

[zferolie]

So regarding the pass currently. Everyone remember Fix/Second Chance Theory? Kazuya seems to fit the bill.

Min Min = ARMS content
Steve = 5 years of negiogations and rumored for Base game
Sephiroth = Cloud only returning under condition of Sephiroth being added
Pyra & Mythra = Xenoblade 2 content

Now we have Kazuya since Sakurai considered Heihachi for Sm4sh.

So worth keeping some characters in mind who were considered in the past or from the same franchise.

I'll also add that everyone but Steve are lowkey characters. What I mean is, none are as massive on twitter as Dante, Doomguy, Sora, Crash or master chief. I think this means its likely the last may not be any of those either.

Still, the idea that FP2 are characters getting a second chance is super likely and may be all but confirmed here. I think we can look at FP11 being the same.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

The Smash Wiki already counted over 30 moves in the Direct alone.

Does that include devil variants? Because that would inflate the number somewhat. I also didn't include throws or pummels in my number, so that would probably move mine up to 27ish.

Edit: I also forgot dash attack, so make my number 29.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Funny you mention that, as the Kazuya artwork from today looks like it was drawn by Kazunori Haruyama. Which makes me hope for a Nintendo RPG crossover drawn by him too...

Was he the X Zone artist or something?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So regarding the pass currently. Everyone remember Fix/Second Chance Theory? Kazuya seems to fit the bill.

Min Min = ARMS content
Steve = 5 years of negiogations and rumored for Base game
Sephiroth = Cloud only returning under condition of Sephiroth being added
Pyra & Mythra = Xenoblade 2 content

Now we have Kazuya since Sakurai considered Heihachi for Sm4sh.

So worth keeping some characters in mind who were considered in the past or from the same franchise.

There was that info from Xenother that claimed Dante was scrapped from the base game... but I’m a bit skeptical about that leak tbh.

 

[BlazGreen]

Here's the stuff I was talking about earlier:

I think you posted the wrong version

 

[AreJay25]

I love this kind of character reveal that’s simultaneously extremely surprising yet blatantly obvious in hindsight. Like we’ve known about Tekken being considered before, but Sakurai couldn’t figure out how to implement the limb system. But at the same time we did get Heihachi’s Mii costume with Min Min so Tekken kind of dropped off everyone’s radar.

You know it's funny. When I saw Min Min's gameplay for the first time, it kinda reminded me of Tekken's limb system. I thought that could have been a good sign that they might have figured something out, but then Heihachi's Mii Costume was revealed so I figured that was it for the series.

Fast forward a year later and here we are lmao.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'll also add that everyone but Steve are lowkey characters. What I mean is, none are as massive on twitter as Dante, Doomguy, Sora, Crash or master chief. I think this means its likely the last may not be any of those either.

Still, the idea that FP2 are characters getting a second chance is super likely and may be all but confirmed here. I think we can look at FP11 being the same.

Although CP11 could break it like Byleth broke the trend of all FP1 characters being third parties without content in the base roster, and where Sephiroth fits into Second Chance Theory is up for speculation.

 

[zferolie]

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but now that I've gathered my thoughts a bit, this E3 for Nintendo felt more like a run of the mill Nintendo Direct that we'd get any time of the year as opposed to the huge event announcing big news after big news. Very 3rd party focused with cool titles sprinkled here and there like Metroid Dread, WarioWare, and Shin Megami Tensei V. At least we got new BOTW 2 footage.

I don't play the Switch for 3rd party titles, so maybe that's why I feel this way, but it's strange we didn't see more huge 1st party content. I would've loved to hear anything DK, Kirby, Pokemon, or Animal Crossing related. Advance Wars coming back is pretty cool I gotta admit.

Overall, I'd rate Nintendo's E3 a 6/10. Certainly not bad, but it didn't have enough to make me jump out of my seat at any point.

I am surprised by your low score, considereing how truely AWFUL every other company at E3 has been, but hey thats your opinion.

I will say in hindsight, I am not surprised by the lack of pokemon, because Pokemon Company likes to do their own thing. I was hoping for some pokemon news though

 

[Shroob]

Into the volcano with you.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like the whole "Smash ends on a low note" thing is a mixture of catchy pessimism (hype responsibly) and people going "well I didn't like Olimar, Duck Hunt (forgetting that the final reveal before launch was actually Shulk), Bayonetta, Inciniroar, or Byleth so the last one of this pass is going to suck too".

 

[kylexv]

Direct Thoughts:

Spoiler: CP10

So, we finally got our Namco rep and another fighting game rep. In terms of how I feel...

This, to me, was the most average feeling Smash reveal I've ever seen. I don't have any feelings of excitement or disappointment toward this reveal. At least Namco finally got another rep.
Also, apparently, Vergeben said something this morning and was wrong. Lol.

Spoiler: Rest of the Direct

This direct was very good. Some highlights:

• Monkey Ball Remake is based as hell
• Advanced Wars is finally being acknowledged again
• WarioWare is getting a new game. Pretty cool
• Metroid Dread actually exists
• Mario Party Superstars seems pretty cool. Just wish there were more boards.
• BotW2 News is always nice, even though Zelda isn't really a series I care too much about.

 

[7NATOR]

It kind of looked like his devil stuff was his Special Moves, and everything else was a normal or command normal, but that's pretty speculative on my part (and probably doesn't have much accuracy since I've never played Tekken).

If Kazuya is just transforming into Devil form just to do Specific moves, than that's a Smash Exclusive, cause that's not how it's ever worked in Tekken

-Tekken 1, Devil was an Alt costume for Kazuya
-Tekken 2, Devil was a boss character, and seperate from Kazuya
-Tekken 3 didn't have Kazuya or Devil
-Tekken Tag Tournament had both, and they were once again Separate
-Tekken 4-6 had Kazuya, but no Devil Kazuya
-Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the first time Kazuya could transform into Devil mid match, and they aren't separate anymore.
-Tekken 7 also has Kazuya being able to Transform into Devil, but unlike in Tag 2 where you can transform Freely, you can only Transform into Devil if you have Rage

This theorized Implementation is an unique way of doing things. Maybe they did it those way for balancing or so they didn't have to Animate the Wings with every animation Kazuya has in Smash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

At this point Fighter 11 could very well be anyone. Hype character, minor character, well known, obscure, anything; the sky's the limit.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

While I'm more of a fan of 2D fighters, it's good to have Tekken represented properly in Smash, if not for that old Sakurai quote on Heihachi I think more people would have recognized it as the most logical choice for the next Bamco character. I like that it's another one for the list of characters Sakurai couldn't wrap his head around at first, only to come back and make it a reality later. Kazuya's a very solid pick too, I'm enjoying how they're starting to go for characters who aren't necessarily the immediately obvious choice, would be nice to see more of this in future games.

Kazuya's inclusion does mean quite a few things for speculation, but at this point it hardly matters to go into the details, because there's only one more character left anyways. It's not really worth it to take everything into consideration, because in all likelihood very little of it is going to be an indication of who this one last character will be, it made more sense to look into all of the details when we had more characters in the pipeline. For me it's just going to be a wait and see situation, I'll try and enjoy the one last ride we're going on past Kazuya's release, because it's going to be many years before we're getting taken on a trip again.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You know it's funny. When I saw Min Min's gameplay for the first time, it kinda reminded me of Tekken's limb system. I thought that could have been a good sign that they might have figured something out, but then Heihachi's Mii Costume was revealed so I figured that was it for the series.

Fast forward a year later and here we are lmao.

When I saw Heihachi's costume revealed right after they showed Min Min having limb-based combat, I was like "STOP! STOP! TEKKEN'S ALREADY DEAD!"

Then it wasn't.

I feel like the whole "Smash ends on a low note" thing is a mixture of catchy pessimism (hype responsibly) and people going "well I didn't like Olimar, Duck Hunt (forgetting that the final reveal before launch was actually Shulk), Bayonetta, Inciniroar, or Byleth so the last one of this pass is going to suck too".

And then they're someone like me who uses "lowkey finale" as a way to go "here's how my niche first party can still win"

 

[zferolie]

Although CP11 could break it like Byleth broke the trend of all FP1 characters being third parties without content in the base roster, and where Sephiroth fits into Second Chance Theory is up for speculation.

Also true. Still, I think its something to keep in mind with speculation

View attachment 319393


Into the volcano with you.

Can someone please tell me why we keep giving Vergeben attention? He hasn't been right in over a year... 2 years in fact since Hero (Terry dopesn't count since nintendo leaked that themselves.)

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 319393


Into the volcano with you.

kazuya voice I don't want to play with you anymore

 

[Deleted member]

I charted the hype trajectory, analyzed all possible color scenarios, and cross-checked everything with 2nd chance theory; the final character is Dixie Kong or Bandana Dee to tie in with a rumored modern 3D title you heard it here first

 

[Guynamednelson]

When I saw Heihachi's costume revealed right after they showed Min Min having limb-based combat, I was like "STOP! STOP! TEKKEN'S ALREADY DEAD!"

Then it wasn't.

And you know it's kind of funny that Kazuya is the one who proved Tekken wasn't dead, because he himself was supposed to die in Tekken 2, was excluded from 3's roster to prove it, then got resurrected in 4.

It's like poetry, it rhymes.

 

[Shroob]

Also true. Still, I think its something to keep in mind with speculation



Can someone please tell me why we keep giving Vergeben attention? He hasn't been right in over a year... 2 years in fact since Hero (Terry dopesn't count since nintendo leaked that themselves.)

It's mainly because this was honestly the first time he showed up since Byleth, who he did leak, albeit it was "Someone sent me this info 5 minutes before the presentation".


He appeared out of nowhere after basically a year and a half of complete silence, jumped on board with a big rumor that had been going around, and it completely blew up in his face.


In short?

It's funny

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I am surprised by your low score, considereing how truely AWFUL every other company at E3 has been, but hey thats your opinion.

I will say in hindsight, I am not surprised by the lack of pokemon, because Pokemon Company likes to do their own thing. I was hoping for some pokemon news though

Perhaps I was just expecting more, but I really didn't feel that E3 spirit. It felt like a regular Direct with an odd lack of strong 1st party titles. I can definitely get behind Metroid Dread, BOTW 2, and Skyward Sword, but how can that be it for 1st party heavy hitters? If you throw in the new Pokemon titles, there's a good amount of 1st party content to look forward to, but so many franchises felt left out.

And I face palmed when they said "now onto familiar content coming to the Switch" and it turned out to be Just Dance...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m just saying

that shade of pink is Pearl Off The Hook’s color

Off the Hook also has a figma

and Marina IS an Octoling

soooooo Off the Hook CP11 you heard it here first

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Kazuya is just transforming into Devil form just to do Specific moves, than that's a Smash Exclusive, cause that's not how it's ever worked in Tekken

-Tekken 1, Devil was an Alt costume for Kazuya
-Tekken 2, Devil was a boss character, and seperate from Kazuya
-Tekken 3 didn't have Kazuya or Devil
-Tekken Tag Tournament had both, and they were once again Separate
-Tekken 4-6 had Kazuya, but no Devil Kazuya
-Tekken Tag Tournament 2 was the first time Kazuya could transform into Devil mid match, and they aren't separate anymore.
-Tekken 7 also has Kazuya being able to Transform into Devil, but unlike in Tag 2 where you can transform Freely, you can only Transform into Devil if you have Rage

This theorized Implementation is an unique way of doing things. Maybe they did it those way for balancing or so they didn't have to Animate the Wings with every animation Kazuya has in Smash.

Looking at it again, I think I've spotted a few moves that he does in both forms, so it probably is a state. He does still swap forms on a move to move basis though which is strange if that's not how it's supposed to work.

Also lol he has a command grab that beats attacks.

 

[Shroob]

I’m just saying

that shade of pink is Pearl Off The Hook’s color

Off the Hook also has a figma

and Marina IS an Octoling

soooooo Off the Hook CP11 you heard it here first

What shade of pink?

Pink was for CP10.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

What about Rayman? It wouldn’t be too impossible to think that Ubisoft suggested Rayman to Nintendo for Smash 4 and even they gave them a 3D model (that was used for its trophy)

And well, Rayman is a popular and wanted pick.

 

[zferolie]

It's mainly because this was honestly the first time he showed up since Byleth, who he did leak, albeit it was "Someone sent me this info 5 minutes before the presentation".


He appeared out of nowhere after basically a year and a half of complete silence, jumped on board with a big rumor that had been going around, and it completely blew up in his face.


In short?

It's funny

Ah didn't know about Byleth. Though getting told 5 minutes i think could not count, but whatever.

Oh I agree its hilarious, but I feel bad for the Halo fans. They got burned HARD

Perhaps I was just expecting more, but I really didn't feel that E3 spirit. It felt like a regular Direct with an odd lack of strong 1st party titles. I can definitely get behind Metroid Dread, BOTW 2, and Skyward Sword, but how can that be it for 1st party heavy hitters? If you throw in the new Pokemon titles, there's a good amount of 1st party content to look forward to, but so many franchises felt left out.

And I face palmed when they said "now onto familiar content coming to the Switch" and it turned out to be Just Dance...

Well nintendo has been forgetting a lot of their series for years. I am just happy Metroid, Warioware, AND Advanced wars is getting some love from them

Well Just Dance IS a staple for nintendo since the Wii, so they are right.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Into the volcano with you.

You're next Shroob. Your fire theory has failed you.

[INSERT EDGY EVIL LAUGH HERE]

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Oh how the turntables.

"u wanted to play?" pic.twitter.com/Aw8LG3RuPt

— Chris (@thegreyzen) June 15, 2021

 

[Jerry98]

So... when a character from a fighting game gets announced I really can't say anything and I'm always okay with it.
I don't care about Kazuya and he is not a character I would choose because I like other characters, but he comes from another fighting game so I feel that he deserves it (even if I never played Tekken).

Btw, it was a decent Nintendo Direct: I expected more to be honest, but it definitely wasn't bad. During this E3 we had much worse conferences.
Metroid Dread is probably the game that made me happier in these days. We finally have the long awaited Fusion sequel!

 

[RileyXY1]

What about Rayman? It wouldn’t be too impossible to think that Ubisoft suggested Rayman to Nintendo for Smash 4 and even they gave them a 3D model (that was used for its trophy)

And well, Rayman is a popular and wanted pick.

Except Rayman isn't very popular in Japan and the Rabbids have taken over his franchise, to the point where they are among the few characters to have an ongoing crossover series with Mario himself.

 

[SharkLord]

You're next Shroob. Your fire theory has failed you.

[INSERT EDGY EVIL LAUGH HERE]

But wouldn't the volcano add to Fire Theory anyways?

And either way Kazuya has fire patterns on his pants to the theory still lives regardless

 

[Shroob]

But wouldn't the volcano add to Fire Theory anyways?

And either way Kazuya has fire patterns on his pants to the theory still lives regardless

No, stop

let is stay dead.

 

[Pupp135]

For me, Kazuya just shows that this fanbase (myself included) doesn’t know who‘s getting in, and I’ll just wait and see who gets added as CP11.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Well nintendo has been forgetting a lot of their series for years. I am just happy Metroid, Warioware, AND Advanced wars is getting some love from them

Well Just Dance IS a staple for nintendo since the Wii, so they are right.

I'm very appreciative of the fact that Advance Wars is finally being brought back into the spotlight! Same with those other titles. There is content to look forward to, just wish there was a bit more for me but hey, I'm glad people are very happy today! Definitely excited for Kayuza as well.

 

[Schnee117]

No, stop

let is stay dead.

The fire rises

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I pretty much stop talking in this thread for the past 2-3 months because I was at a point where I had nothing to add to the conversation and not a lot was going on. I'm not sure if I missed something and Kazuya was predict here but wow, this just took me by surprise.

Kazuya also makes me think of our theory about "missing characters" (like Rex and Arms character being considered for base game). While Kazuya wasn't mentionned, Heihachi was considered for Smash 4, so I think he could still fit this theory.

So yeah final character is Chorus kids 100%