Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[WeirdChillFever]

It's not even about people disagreeing with you. It's just that all discussion has been done ad nauseam for the past few years for almost every character, and with the lack of leakers this time, it's even more obvious that the discussion has been extremely stall.
Sure, sometimes you have someone who pops up and suggest another character, but that doesn't last forever.
I really wish now that they would do a double-reveal. I'm not going to say that I don't care at all, but clearly not as much as two years ago. More characters is always cool but without massive gameplay changes, I'll only play the character for a week, play its classic mode and move on.
Now if they added Smash Run 2.0...

I feel like people only go against the grain because they vehemently oppose people liking Crash or something. Honestly, I don’t even mind cyclic debate as long as it isn’t this self-aware charade. I still think there’s potential in a Pokémon debate, Master Chief still would be cool to see regardless of how many times we talk about him.
Cynicism has no place in my speculation anymore. If people play to win or think they’re above hype because they’d rather be vindicative and right instead of enjoying shilling their faves like Sakurai playing a Fire Emblem game, be my guest but I won’t appease to them in my speculation.

We've already seen how this thread functions.

1-2 people isn't going to be able to steer this thread's direction for any meaningful amount of time, and even if it does for awhile, the entire rest of the speculation community off-site will be no better, if not worse.

Again, I don’t mind the cyclic debate. It just gets tiring when people turn all Family Guy about it and become self-aware to drive the point home how tiring it is and how diverse speculation would be if they were the king of anything.

 

[Guynamednelson]

cynical

Look I have to sound cynical because the only way to argue that some characters I like could have a chance in 2021 is "it'd apparently be the lamest **** ever if this character got in instead of Crashter Chief so he'd count as a 'disappointing finale'"

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

sooooooo was anyone expecting a second season of dlc before it was revealed?

just wondering how many people are gonna be surprised when FP3 appears...

I was expecting more DLC but not a whole pass.

And I'll really be surprised if there's a FP3 indeed since Sakurai has said many times now that they don't intend on adding anything more as far as characters are concerned after CP10 and CP11.

I know he changed his mind in the past, but straight-up lying isn't his thing. It's because people mix the two that they thought "Sakurai told us not to expect too many new characters? He is lying, look at the Grinch leak and seven characters still going to be released!"... Only to get Incineroar and Byleth.

Or during Smash For when he said the Ice Climbers would probably be cut but some assumed he was joking. Welp.

Maybe, and I say MAYBE, we will get ONE bonus fighter since it is, as it says, a bonus, but a whole Pass lasting for extra months? Nah, I don't think so.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not opposed to the idea of FP3

But the discussion is already dry as hell, and frankly, I've been chugging through these last few months, but barely at this point, and this is with extended, multi-month long breaks.


The fact is, we've hit a dry spell, and it's not going to change. We're almost assuredly never going to get another Vergeben or Box theory again, and because of that, discussion has a cycle that repeats ad nauseum.


Popular character gets discussed > People complain discussion is boring > Offer to discuss their character > A few posts about them > Popular character gets discussed, again


Back with base game, we had leaks out the wahoo, we had Vergeben, we had Box Theory, Blog Theory, the Grinch, it was basically a speculator's heaven since you never ran out of 'stuff' to talk about.

And with FP1, we had the Brave datamine, Vergeben was still alive, the "Square list", Shonobi dropping Banjo bombs, which sent everyone into a frenzy, the SNK leak, and.... dare I ****ing say it, Cacomallow.



But with FP2.... there's been **** all to discuss. Leaks have been cracked down hard on by Nintendo, so at this point, characters only leak moments before their presentation, so at that point who seriously gives a ****?


It says a lot that I took a break right after Pythra dropped and came back only a few weeks ago, and nothing ****ing changed discussion-wise in 3 whole months.

 

[Technomage]

Yeah, if Ninty drags out CP11 more, then the wait and speculation will get older than coprolite.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm not opposed to the idea of FP3

But the discussion is already dry as hell, and frankly, I've been chugging through these last few months, but barely at this point, and this is with extended, multi-month long breaks.


The fact is, we've hit a dry spell, and it's not going to change. We're almost assuredly never going to get another Vergeben or Box theory again, and because of that, discussion has a cycle that repeats ad nauseum.


Popular character gets discussed > People complain discussion is boring > Offer to discuss their character > A few posts about them > Popular character gets discussed, again


Back with base game, we had leaks out the wahoo, we had Vergeben, we had Box Theory, Blog Theory, the Grinch, it was basically a speculator's heaven since you never ran out of 'stuff' to talk about.

And with FP1, we had the Brave datamine, Vergeben was still alive, the "Square list", Shonobi dropping Banjo bombs, which sent everyone into a frenzy, the SNK leak, and.... dare I ****ing say it, Cacomallow.



But with FP2.... there's been ** all to discuss. Leaks have been cracked down hard on by Nintendo, so at this point, characters only leak moments before their presentation, so at that point who seriously gives a **?

And then Sephiroth and Pythra weren’t leaked AT ALL, only Min Min and Steve, so who knows if the last two will

part of me expects them to be leaked cuz it’s E3, the other half wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t leaked

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Look I have to sound cynical because the only way to argue that some characters I like could have a chance in 2021 is "it'd apparently be the lamest **** ever if this character got in instead of Crashter Chief so he'd count as a 'disappointing finale'"

Nah man, you just gotta poke through the myth of the monolith. Isaac’s a cool character but just because I think the current deck is stacked against him doesn’t mean I deal in absolutes. Same with Crashter Chief. Some characters get dealt a better hand than others but that does not mean people think they’re locks.

Giving into that fear of absolutes and inevitabilities is what makes this cycle so tiring amd devoid of passion and I’d hate to see your passion turn out to be a force of bitterness

 

[JamesDNaux]

For example, a universe where Pepsiman first appeared in a video game, and has gotten into the roster.

Pepsiman first appeared in commercials before his own game, but technically speaking, most video game characters also first appear in commercials for their games before the game itself releases. Do with this information what you will.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I'm not opposed to the idea of FP3

But the discussion is already dry as hell, and frankly, I've been chugging through these last few months, but barely at this point, and this is with extended, multi-month long breaks.


The fact is, we've hit a dry spell, and it's not going to change. We're almost assuredly never going to get another Vergeben or Box theory again, and because of that, discussion has a cycle that repeats ad nauseum.


Popular character gets discussed > People complain discussion is boring > Offer to discuss their character > A few posts about them > Popular character gets discussed, again


Back with base game, we had leaks out the wahoo, we had Vergeben, we had Box Theory, Blog Theory, the Grinch, it was basically a speculator's heaven since you never ran out of 'stuff' to talk about.

And with FP1, we had the Brave datamine, Vergeben was still alive, the "Square list", Shonobi dropping Banjo bombs, which sent everyone into a frenzy, the SNK leak, and.... dare I ****ing say it, Cacomallow.



But with FP2.... there's been ** all to discuss. Leaks have been cracked down hard on by Nintendo, so at this point, characters only leak moments before their presentation, so at that point who seriously gives a **?


It says a lot that I took a break right after Pythra dropped and came back only a few weeks ago, and nothing ****ing changed discussion-wise in 3 whole months.

That's literally my situation, but worse.
I simply made my predictions after Steve's reveal (Sephiroth, Monster Hunter, Rex with Pyra/Mythra/Roc and Porky for anyone who cares), ended up hiding in my cave for months. Only knew Sephiroth has been added two days later since I forgot about Smash and didn't watch the VGA. Watch the Pyra and Mythra reveal, then went back into hibernation up until a month ago. And I really didn't see any change in talks besides Eggman being more considered after Sephiroth.
We must end this loop.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Pepsiman first appeared in commercials before his own game, but technically speaking, most video game characters also first appear in commercials for their games before the game itself releases. Do with this information what you will.

Time for Pepsiman to get in!

 

[Staarih]

I see people throw around the idea of a bonus fighter, but I kinda see the sixth character as one already. While five per pass isn't set in stone I kinda felt the second pass having an extra slot was implied as something "extra". Honestly, it feels like a good point to end DLC, and that's what I'm expecting until/unless shown otherwise haha.

 

[Shroob]

That's literally my situation, but worse.
I simply made my predictions after Steve's reveal (Sephiroth, Monster Hunter, Rex with Pyra/Mythra/Roc and Porky for anyone who cares), ended up hiding in my cave for months. Only knew Sephiroth has been added two days later since I forgot about Smash and didn't watch the VGA. Watch the Pyra and Mythra reveal, then went back into hibernation up until a month ago. And I really didn't see any change in talks besides Eggman being more considered after Sephiroth.
We must end this loop.

That's pretty much it.


The characters change, but the discussion remains the same. Without a big leak, or a credible leaker spoonfeeding us info, left to our own devices, we just spin our wheels for months on end and never make any real progress or headway in discussion. It says a lot that one can take a break for an extended period of time, and the only thing to note is the names changing, the thought behind the discussion still being roughly the same.

 

[Ivander]

Even worse than Smash 4 Bayo?

Give it time. It happened with Meta Knight, Ryu, Cloud and Corrin with their counter. They get alot less nowadays. And regarding the DLC, it happened with Hero and Terry. If anything, the character that might get it as bad as Smash 4 Bayonetta is Min-Min if they don't find the right balance for her in time for the next Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You think a new base game would leak easier?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I see people throw around the idea of a bonus fighter, but I kinda see the sixth character as one already. While five per pass isn't set in stone I kinda felt the second pass having an extra slot was implied as something "extra". Honestly, it feels like a good point to end DLC, and that's what I'm expecting until/unless shown otherwise haha.

I also think that the sixth fighter is a bonus, but there's another reason I believe we're only getting the next two fighters, and it's the website standard layout.
Before Ken and Incineroar's release, there were only two spots left, and the only echo fighter that could be added without separating anyone else's echo fighter from its original character was Ken. And it seems they focused on making the layout specifically in rows of three.

Now this is not much evidence but it didn't betray me yet, so I kept that in mind.


So if I have to push for extra fighters with my theory, we either get zero, three or six.

 

[Shroob]

You think a new base game would leak easier?

At this point, with how scared of Smash leaks Nintendo seems to be that they keep things under extreme lock and key, it's hard to say.


Ultimate's base roster leaked very, very early into its life, but we've also seen them apparently realize how fast leaks can spread and have gone out of their way to crack down when it comes to Smash.

 

[Technomage]

I see people throw around the idea of a bonus fighter, but I kinda see the sixth character as one already. While five per pass isn't set in stone I kinda felt the second pass having an extra slot was implied as something "extra". Honestly, it feels like a good point to end DLC, and that's what I'm expecting until/unless shown otherwise haha.

Or maybe Mythra (the second form of a transformation character) was the "bonus fighter?"

 

[subterrestrial]

I see people throw around the idea of a bonus fighter, but I kinda see the sixth character as one already.

lol its definitely waluigi

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

You think a new base game would leak easier?

Yes, since it takes multiple years and more people, it's easier to get stuff leaked more easily.
However, in both Ultimate and Smash For, it seems the leaks happened from really early stuff the "sources" for Gematsu and Vergeben got.
There are the infamous Chorus Men and Pokemon from X/Y (we found data for a Rythm Heaven icon which could have been for a stage for all we know, and Sakurai confirmed in the early draft that they reserve a slot for a Pokemon without a specific name), and the Minecraft as well as the Square-Enix names with Vergeben (Minecraft has been in talks for years, and we did get multiple Square Enix characters at present).

I believe that what the sources manage to leak are early things that happened during development, probably the moment Sakurai is more "vulnerable" to leaks, thus them getting their hands on what could potentially be the roster. Which would explain why Vergeben's source didn't get any information about Banjo despite him being negotiated in June 2018; it no longer had new information. Sure it's just speculation but I believe it's something along those lines.

 

[7NATOR]

You think a new base game would leak easier?

I will agree with Shroob in his sentiment that Nintendo might be more hard lockdown on leaks than back then, So a New base game would be harder than usual

With that being said, Base game Development has Way more people involved in the production than DLC Development, so that's much more chance for the base game to leak. So to be honest, I still think the base game will in some capacity leak, but it might be harder than previous games

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Oh god yeah, the numbers of "THE LAST FIGHTER WILL BE DISAPOINTING" if they don't show up the two tomorrow will be ****ing annoying, even more if they pull a Smash 4 and wait until November/December to announce the final character.

Nintendo, please end our life tomorrow.

This thread may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's another Alternate Dimension Smash Bros.:

Mayro
Sanic
CD-i Link
Pepsiman (with Coca-Colaman as an echo)
Johnny Test
Shrek
Bubsy
Lester the Unlikely
Reboot Dante
Beck and Call
Pink Gold Peach (with Blue Platinum Rosalina as an echo)
Nathaniel Bandy
Bimmy and Jammy
Sora, Dolan, and Gooby

...I like the name Blue Platinum Rosalina. Not going to lie, that works well. I'll laugh if we get something similar in the next Mario Kart.

Though where's Vampire Wario and some kind of alternate Waluigi form? Mario Kart Tour however has started doing costumes, and I feel that's a great way to fix up Mario Kart's roster. If they have a different form or personality, they shouldn't be a costume(Metal Mario at least applies to this. Gold Mario is a great costume for him. Dr. Mario in this case is fine as an alt for Mario, since their uniqueness can't be done here). You could even give Bowser Jr. the old Koopa Kid alt from Mario Party, who is basically the only character fairly similar to his final design(while also being an actual kid to Bowser, not simply Baby Bowser, who of course Bowser Jr. resembles).

Being I don't play Kingdom Hearts, I don't know all the memes. What's Dolan and Gooby supposed to be a joke on?

 

[Shroob]

...I like the name Blue Platinum Rosalina. Not going to lie, that works well. I'll laugh if we get something similar in the next Mario Kart.

Though where's Vampire Wario and some kind of alternate Waluigi form? Mario Kart Tour however has started doing costumes, and I feel that's a great way to fix up Mario Kart's roster. If they have a different form or personality, they shouldn't be a costume(Metal Mario at least applies to this. Gold Mario is a great costume for him. Dr. Mario in this case is fine as an alt for Mario, since their uniqueness can't be done here). You could even give Bowser Jr. the old Koopa Kid alt from Mario Party, who is basically the only character fairly similar to his final design(while also being an actual kid to Bowser, not simply Baby Bowser, who of course Bowser Jr. resembles).

Being I don't play Kingdom Hearts, I don't know all the memes. What's Dolan and Gooby supposed to be a joke on?

Dolan

Gooby


They're poorly drawn versions of Donald and Goofy that achieved meme status, that's basically it.

 

[Technomage]

...I like the name Blue Platinum Rosalina. Not going to lie, that works well. I'll laugh if we get something similar in the next Mario Kart.

Though where's Vampire Wario and some kind of alternate Waluigi form? Mario Kart Tour however has started doing costumes, and I feel that's a great way to fix up Mario Kart's roster. If they have a different form or personality, they shouldn't be a costume(Metal Mario at least applies to this. Gold Mario is a great costume for him. Dr. Mario in this case is fine as an alt for Mario, since their uniqueness can't be done here). You could even give Bowser Jr. the old Koopa Kid alt from Mario Party, who is basically the only character fairly similar to his final design(while also being an actual kid to Bowser, not simply Baby Bowser, who of course Bowser Jr. resembles).

Being I don't play Kingdom Hearts, I don't know all the memes. What's Dolan and Gooby supposed to be a joke on?

Yeah, I didn't find Vampire Wario or any of the other MKTour alts (except Pink Gold Peach) funny enough to add to that roster.

As for who Dolan and Gooby are supposed to be parodying, they parody Donald Duck and Goofy, respectively.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not opposed to the idea of FP3

But the discussion is already dry as hell, and frankly, I've been chugging through these last few months, but barely at this point, and this is with extended, multi-month long breaks.


The fact is, we've hit a dry spell, and it's not going to change. We're almost assuredly never going to get another Vergeben or Box theory again, and because of that, discussion has a cycle that repeats ad nauseum.


Popular character gets discussed > People complain discussion is boring > Offer to discuss their character > A few posts about them > Popular character gets discussed, again


Back with base game, we had leaks out the wahoo, we had Vergeben, we had Box Theory, Blog Theory, the Grinch, it was basically a speculator's heaven since you never ran out of 'stuff' to talk about.

And with FP1, we had the Brave datamine, Vergeben was still alive, the "Square list", Shonobi dropping Banjo bombs, which sent everyone into a frenzy, the SNK leak, and.... dare I ****ing say it, Cacomallow.



But with FP2.... there's been ** all to discuss. Leaks have been cracked down hard on by Nintendo, so at this point, characters only leak moments before their presentation, so at that point who seriously gives a **?


It says a lot that I took a break right after Pythra dropped and came back only a few weeks ago, and nothing ****ing changed discussion-wise in 3 whole months.

Yeah, the problem is that Smash now is just a quick bump in excitement whenever there's a new reveal, then it dies down and we're back to square one. It's the same game, the same pool of characters, the same arguments, same points made... Same old, same old. I'm pretty sure there's a lot more we could talk about, but as you mentioned, whenever we actually try to discuss someone new they just die off after a couple posts. I know, it's probably gonna sound real cynical coming from the guy who pushed Adol into the SB mainstream, but I think it says a lot that I needed a rumor to actually get him off the ground.

All that, and we're nearing the end. There's only two characters left, so there's no longer any people pitching their predictions for the pass, no room for error anymore. Rumors are shot down instantly, as are any "weaker" evidence like glitches pushing a new release. Sure, it's a lot more accurate, but there was a bit of blissful ignorance in just saying any old thing and seeing what sticks.

I'm usually an optimist, but I dunno. Everyone's just fried at this point, and speculation kinda relies on having a group. I know, I know; If I don't like speculation anymore I can leave, but it's a surprisingly hard habit to break after a year. Or maybe it's because there's people here I don't have contact with elsewhere. Really, this thread is shifting towards just general chatting over speculation, so I'm not really for the predictions anyways

 

[WahHahaha]

I see people throw around the idea of a bonus fighter, but I kinda see the sixth character as one already. While five per pass isn't set in stone I kinda felt the second pass having an extra slot was implied as something "extra". Honestly, it feels like a good point to end DLC, and that's what I'm expecting until/unless shown otherwise haha.

Which is definitely why I see Waluigi as CP11. He's an extra character that doesn't require any negotiations, isn't really part of any specific title, and is just there because people want him.

Waluigi fits the bill for bonus fighter/extra slot so well.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Smart of Square Enix to release a Final Fantasy Origins collection.

Very stupid of them to not release it on consoles, including the one from the company that all six originally came out on, but that's SE for you.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I didn't find Vampire Wario or any of the other MKTour alts (except Pink Gold Peach) funny enough to add to that roster.

As for who Dolan and Gooby are supposed to be parodying, they parody Donald Duck and Goofy, respectively.

I knew who they were parodying in context(it was obvious by the name Sora), but I didn't remember the meme. Thanks, though~

That's what I mean, though. Those alts are fine as alts for Mario Kart. People can play as a design they like more. No big deal. They're fairly easy to add anyway. The tons of clone designs have gotten tedious, and most can be alts instead.

I get that they can't just add a ton of unique designs either, because they take a huge amount of work in comparison to texture changes only. It's not that textures are super easy to change either, as any developer will tell you, but one is clearly easier than the other, heh.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

View attachment 318976

Dolan

View attachment 318977

Gooby


They're poorly drawn versions of Donald and Goofy that achieved meme status, that's basically it.

Welcome to the club.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Smart of Square Enix to release a Final Fantasy Origins collection.

Very stupid of them to not release it on consoles, including the one from the company that all six originally came out on, but that's SE for you.

That guy in that first game SE was showing stole Mario's anti-Rabbid guns

Which is definitely why I see Waluigi as CP11. He's an extra character that doesn't require any negotiations, isn't really part of any specific title, and is just there because people want him.

Waluigi fits the bill for bonus fighter/extra slot so well.

Well yeah, Waluigi being Fighter 11 is... I actually low-key wanna put money on it. Particularly since people were SO upset about it, he'd be a "hype" E3 reveal. The last character as well as the last character that "couldn't happen"

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, the problem is that Smash now is just a quick bump in excitement whenever there's a new reveal, then it dies down and we're back to square one. It's the same game, the same pool of characters, the same arguments, same points made... Same old, same old. I'm pretty sure there's a lot more we could talk about, but as you mentioned, whenever we actually try to discuss someone new they just die off after a couple posts. I know, it's probably gonna sound real cynical coming from the guy who pushed Adol into the SB mainstream, but I think it says a lot that I needed a rumor to actually get him off the ground.

All that, and we're nearing the end. There's only two characters left, so there's no longer any people pitching their predictions for the pass, no room for error anymore. Rumors are shot down instantly, as are any "weaker" evidence like glitches pushing a new release. Sure, it's a lot more accurate, but there was a bit of blissful ignorance in just saying any old thing and seeing what sticks.

I'm usually an optimist, but I dunno. Everyone's just fried at this point, and speculation kinda relies on having a group. I know, I know; If I don't like speculation anymore I can leave, but it's a surprisingly hard habit to break after a year. Or maybe it's because there's people here I don't have contact with elsewhere. Really, this thread is shifting towards just general chatting over speculation, so I'm not really for the predictions anyways

You either die a hero

Or you live long enough to become a villain.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We're definitely not getting FP3 at this point. The most I see is a bonus fighter but that's it and even then I don't think that's happening.

 

[Dukefire]

Remember that the announcement will begin on Tuesday and not Monday. For those that got the date mixed up.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Id honestly rather have smash leaked for me then do this long ass boring wait for a character I know wasnt one of my most wanted

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Remember that the announcement will begin on Tuesday and not Monday. For those that got the date mixed up.View attachment 318979

I always remember Nintendo's E3 time and date because in Central time it has always been at 11:00 so I always remember it in local radio voice "Tuesdaaaaaaay at eleven!"

"Tuesday at eleven" is the phrase that helps me remember Nintendo's E3 time since they seem to always pick the same time and day of the week.

 

[Twilord]

What is the general consensus?

Nintendo and Bandai Namco end off together? Crash and Master Chief come from nowhere?

 

[Technomage]

What is the general consensus?

Nintendo and Bandai Namco end off together? Crash and Master Chief come from nowhere?

I don't know, but the general consensus is that nearly everyone here wants a dual reveal.

 

[Shroob]

What is the general consensus?

Nintendo and Bandai Namco end off together? Crash and Master Chief come from nowhere?

I don't think there is a general consensus.


This thread can barely agree what they want for lunch, let alone who they think will be shown off.

 

[Dukefire]

I'm worried since the hype is climbing high to the point of falling hard.

Tread with precautions.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

What is the general consensus?

Nintendo and Bandai Namco end off together? Crash and Master Chief come from nowhere?

The general consensus is that there is no general consensus.