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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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This is why I am fed up with this thread.
I announce I am leaving, in a rage, and still you take jabs at me.
I have half a mind to report. Leave me alone!
Y'know what? You're right. I overreacted. That wasn't cool of me either.

Thing is, you don't seem to get that I care about you. That other people care about you. I can tell you're upset about people telling you that Midna has no chance. I'd be pissed off too if I was told "yeah your stupid dragon chick has no chance".

But this? Getting into a huff and storming out with the parting words that this thread, and implicitly everybody in it, is "awful"? That's incredibly hurtful and disrespectful. We're trying to be rational and offer counter-arguments to your claims, because that's what we do in this thread. That's what we've done in this thread since day one and it's the entire crux of this thread's title: DLC character discussion thread. If you can't handle a discussion, even if it runs contrary to what you think, then I think it's for the best if you go somewhere else for a bit.

I say this as a friend. If I didn't care about you, I'd tell you that Midna is a stupid choice and that's that. I didn't. I tried to support you while offering a reasonable rebuttal to your claims. The fact that you outright told me I'm awful and threatened to report me demonstrates that this conversation is doomed to fall apart.

You've just turned off a potential Midna supporter. Sorry to say, dear, but I tried to help you, and that's the extent of what I can do.
 
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STILL better than Malladus.
Notice the pattern of the most recent console Zelda games:
Wind Waker: Ganondorf
Twilight Princess: Ganondorf and Ganon
Skyward Sword: Demise
Zelda U: Piloswine?

Yeah, I can see it now. Piloswine will totally be the final boss of Zelda U. :troll:
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
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I wonder how many times I'll be dragged in here because I support that one underdog from that series who most people believe should have Barney the space dragon before anything else and will dismiss said character because "Not Ridley". Yes, that hurts me to read whenever it comes up, but I can't sway everyone, much less a diehard supporter, and I accept that.

disclaimer: liquid wants ridley too but rids is not in the most favorable of conditions at the moment



The only character I put on Sylux's level of "want to death" is Snake, and I acknowledge that both are unlikely as hell...according to everyone else.

Some of you have heard me say this at some point or another: speculation is wild, and events across it(hi KKR Mii) have only served to prove my line of thought. If I had to compare the hypothetical and community(as well as my own) speculated chances Sylux has in general compared to juggernauts such as Isaac, then they would be pitifully low. But if we're factoring the faulty reasoning of "oh this character realistically has no shot because reasons because random choice because not Ridley", then let me say, realism in a subject like this? Hah. Chrom stood behind your precious realism for months and was shot down.

Although in my case, I don't care for the concept of what the community thinks about some character's chances. Do I think Sylux has a chance? Not a magnificent chance, but yes, in the event Metroid was looked at for DLC options(which I wholeheartedly doubt). Am I biased? Yes, and I know that. If my character makes it, yay, if it doesn't, I perfectly understand why. I'm just here to support my #1 choice. Also making me happy is my efforts being recognized elsewhere. Do these efforts compare to the stuff, say, King K. Rool has managed? Not in the slightest. But there's an audience outside this forum, and that audience appreciating my efforts is part of what pleases me.

If you're planning to start a debate on me for whatever reason, try and keep it civil, yes? I'm not a fan of heated arguments and reactions such as the ones on this page.
No, no, I quite agree with your position.

I usually point you out as the most balanced supporter of any character on Smashboards.
I needed you as a paragon of speculation etiquette to attempt to educate Kenith.
 

The Novice Sword

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My (I think) unpopular opinion is that if there were to be another Zelda character it should be either Impa or Princess Ruto. Impa seems semi-popular enough. I see her brought up from time to time, but I've never heard anyone else suggest Ruto.

I think she'd be a really fun mage type character with water based moves, she's got some importance to the series lore as a whole (Seven Sages ASSEMBLE!), and she's a total cutie (that totally matters!) Totally unfeasible, probably not popular, just my opinion.

As for Metroid, I agree along the lines someone else said of there are other character besides Ridley who are, shall we say, appropriately sized. I'm a big proponent of the 3 hunters from the Prime trilogy (Ghor, Gandrayda, and Rundas) They're all really unique and interesting characters who represent a currently neglected part of the Metroid franchise. Any combination of the 3 on the playable roster would be pretty awesome in my opinion.
 

Talpr1

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Honestly Ganon would be a much better choice than Black Shadow if we want to get proper representation of the King Of Evil while not alienating Falcondorf players.
 

LIQUID12A

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I usually point you out as the most balanced supporter of any character on Smashboards.
Much appreciated, but in my opinion such a claim would be sort of a disrespect to any other supporters who have this mentality you praise and that you and I don't know of. Though I'm flattered.
 

IceBreakerXY

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All this Zelda talk and not a single mention of the most deserving but most underrated Zelda character in terms of Smash speculation.Vaati not only is he a villian but he can rep handheld Zelda something Smash highly neglacts
 

EdgeTheLucas

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The worst villain is Chancellor Cole, also in Spirit Tracks. He revived not-Ganondorf #1, Malladus, before Nintendo made not-Ganondorf #2, Demise, in Skyward Sword.

I hope Zelda Wii U either just brings back Ganondorf without any fuss like they did in Wind Waker, or makes a new villain with no similarities to Ganondorf, like Skull Kid or Vaati.
 

Pazzo.

「Livin' On A Prayer」
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Much appreciated, but in my opinion such a claim would be sort of a disrespect to any other supporters who have this mentality you praise and that you and I don't know of. Though I'm flattered.
I don't know them. :) They shouldn't be offended if I don't know their character.

But anyway:

The worst villain is Chancellor Cole, also in Spirit Tracks. He revived not-Ganondorf #1, Malladus, before Nintendo made not-Ganondorf #2, Demise, in Skyward Sword.

I hope Zelda Wii U either just brings back Ganondorf without any fuss like they did in Wind Waker, or makes a new villain with no similarities to Ganondorf, like Skull Kid or Vaati.
If it's before OoT, I'd like to see a proto-Twilight-Majora.

After OoT: Ganondorf.
 
D

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Honestly Ganon would be a much better choice than Black Shadow if we want to get proper representation of the King Of Evil while not alienating Falcondorf players.
While screwing over what little chance F-Zero has at getting a newcomer in favor of another alternate version of a pre-existing character.
 

Burruni

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The worst villain is Chancellor Cole, also in Spirit Tracks. He revived not-Ganondorf #1, Malladus, before Nintendo made not-Ganondorf #2, Demise, in Skyward Sword.

I hope Zelda Wii U just brings back Ganon without any fuss like they did in Four Swords Adventures and A Link Between Worlds and doesn't make a new villain.
I fixed that for you. You're welcome.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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Let's try to keep it civil, yes? I see some heated stuff going on in here. That's no fun. Remember, we're talking about a video game here.
---
Anyway, everytime I see Zelda brought up it seems to me like people suggest characters because they claim Zelda needs more representation.

Now, Zelda is a favorite series of mine. I can tell there are many Zelda fans and that's fine. It's a good series to like. However, I personally think Zelda is fine with what they have. They've got the main cast there for the most part (aside from Impa, who for all intents and purposes has had one memorable appearance with Skyward Sword). Everybody else has been a one off.

The unfortunate part with Ganondorf is that they'll probably never change him at this point. Even adding some custom moves might be nice as far as putting the Dead Man's Volley or something. That'd be cool.

I guess my issue is that I'm not a huge fan of the whole "add X because it needs representation!" Remember, we play this game. Representation doesn't really matter once the series itself is in Smash. At least to me anyway. I'd say if Impa has a large role in Zelda U (or NX) then she's got a decent shot...maybe. Who knows? If there's a new one off villain they're probably screwed.
---
At this point, all I want from the ballot or future DLC is a compilation of veterans, highly requested characters, or really neat characters that weren't necessarily the most wanted, but can draw in a crowd (like Wonder Red!)
 

Ura

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My hopes for future LoZ representation...

- Young Link (Melee moveset + MM transformtions)
- Impa (Hyrule Warriors based)
- Tetra (Would much rather have her over Toon Zelda)
- Ganondorf (non-Falcon clone, Black Shadow can take his cloned moveset)
- Ganon (based on the first 3 LoZ games)
 
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Arcanir

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The worst Zelda villain in the franchise.
I'd honestly give that to Bellum (though admittedly that's not saying much).

I fixed that for you. You're welcome.
I personally didn't like how they handled him in A Link Between Worlds as he was pretty much just a power-up and had no other role or character otherwise. It really felt like a waste considering that was his first appearance in years that wasn't a remake and yet it didn't amount to anything for the character himself.

If they bring him back, I'd much rather they do something more to flesh him out, and not do it at the expense of another villain.
 
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Burruni

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Okay, with the whole representation thing, I'm just gonna say this.

Don't look at it solely as a matter of number of characters. Yes, there is a correlation to the size of a series to characters, but that is far from a causation. Look at it for the pool of quality characters that are major in that series that would really offer things to the roster.

:4mario:, at this point, has little other than (Captain) Toad for main series characters, and otherwise will be looking to spin-off staples like Waluigi or Daisy or a star of the RPGs... with Paper Mario being the only one major enough to truly stand.

:4link: not really getting a new character since Melee may seem bad, but... most fan clamored characters have their big role in 1 game and then kinda fizzle off for any importance. Ganon, Impa to a lesser extent, and Tingle by a stretch are the few characters that have enough of a stay in the series and impact to be noteworthy.

:4pikachu: C'mon, it's Pokemon. By the nature of the series we should expect a newcomer or two with each new game when it's so massively popular and you get over 70 of these things every generation.

:4samus:: Other than Ridley, look at who gets argued; a Mother Brain with robo legs, Syllux, or Rundas, by nature of how little other characters are really explored into for the series.

:4dk:: One true case of under-representation when K. Rool should've been added and Dixie as a fairly fitting candidate even after that. DKC trilogy being 3 of the top 10 selling games (commonly coming up in many's listings of top Nintendo games of all time) of the SNES iirc and DKCR ( & TF) being some massive games as well.

:4marth:: Legit, it's the Marth clones that pad it out. Hell, if it was :4marth::4myfriends::4robinm: with :4feroy: as DLC I don't think much would be flamed.

:4pit:: After Uprising being one of the largest games on the 3DS period, and one of few to come early in the cycle, :4palutena: was not some unholy addition and does plenty for uniqueness in a fighter (if only her base specials weren't garbage).

:4darkpit: and :4lucina:, sadly, cause a lot of the "imbalance" people see despite being low-effort clones that were only promoted to such very late in development.

I could go on about how :4wario2: was one of the top 3 requested characters for Melee, which was before a single WarioWare game was made and was due to him in the Mario spin-offs and his Wario Land skills, and how almost nothing from Wario Land is even in his moveset, a lack of any trophy, and 1 maybe 2 songs.

If one of your biggest reasons for a character is "Muh reps," they aren't a character who can stand on their own merits.
 
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Ura

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I thought it was a pretty nifty thing to do. We've seen times in LoZ games like ALTTP and TP were Ganon/Ganondorf manipulates a villain in to doing his bidding so it was a nice change of pace for the opposite to happen (and it's almost like karma came back to bite Ganon in the rear end lol).

Personally, I was a little disappointed because I had a headcanon of a LoZ game were Dark Link manipulates and absorbs Ganon and thus becoming the final boss of the game but it was still done good in ALBW.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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Anybody who is complaining about Lucina is a whiny brat.

She's extra. She wasn't originally planned to be seperate. It was her and the other two clones, or nothing. You wouldn't get your precious K.Rool or someone else if Lucina wasn't in the game.
 
D

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Maybe they wanted a different clone? :troll:
(Though truth be told, I have seen people complain that Dark Pit was separated and Alph wasn't.)
 
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DJ3DS

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On the talk of Classic Ganon, he's not a character that I go out of my way to support as my weight is completely behind King K Rool but I would be 100% hyped to see him appear. Makes my top 3 alongside the King and Sylux.
 

Burruni

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On the talk of Classic Ganon, he's not a character that I go out of my way to support as my weight is completely behind King K Rool but I would be 100% hyped to see him appear. Makes my top 3 alongside the King and Sylux.
See, this is kinda what I've been trying to say.
King K. Rool has such a dominating grasp on people when looking at villains, heavyweights, and projectiles right now that I feel that Ganon support will be held fairly short with having, in terms of gameplay, fairly similar themes.
Honestly, I didn't even realise how bad I wanted him until after the disc already came out.
 

Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
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Okay, with the whole representation thing, I'm just gonna say this.

Don't look at it solely as a matter of number of characters. Yes, there is a correlation to the size of a series to characters, but that is far from a causation. Look at it for the pool of quality characters that are major in that series that would really offer things to the roster.

:4mario:, at this point, has little other than (Captain) Toad for main series characters, and otherwise will be looking to spin-off staples like Waluigi or Daisy or a star of the RPGs... with Paper Mario being the only one major enough to truly stand.

:4link: not really getting a new character since Melee may seem bad, but... most fan clamored characters have their big role in 1 game and then kinda fizzle off for any importance. Ganon, Impa to a lesser extent, and Tingle by a stretch are the few characters that have enough of a stay in the series and impact to be noteworthy.

:4pikachu: C'mon, it's Pokemon. By the nature of the series we should expect a newcomer or two with each new game when it's so massively popular and you get over 70 of these things every generation.

:4samus:: Other than Ridley, look at who gets argued; a Mother Brain with robo legs, Syllux, or Rundas, by nature of how little other characters are really explored into for the series.

:4dk:: One true case of under-representation when K. Rool should've been added and Dixie as a fairly fitting candidate even after that. DKC trilogy being 3 of the top 10 selling games (commonly coming up in many's listings of top Nintendo games of all time) of the SNES iirc and DKCR ( & TF) being some massive games as well.

:4marth:: Legit, it's the Marth clones that pad it out. Hell, if it was :4marth::4myfriends::4robinm: with :4feroy: as DLC I don't think much would be flamed.

:4pit:: After Uprising being one of the largest games on the 3DS period, and one of few to come early in the cycle, :4palutena: was not some unholy addition and does plenty for uniqueness in a fighter (if only her base specials weren't garbage).

:4darkpit: and :4lucina:, sadly, cause a lot of the "imbalance" people see despite being low-effort clones that were only promoted to such very late in development.

I could go on about how :4wario2: was one of the top 3 requested characters for Melee, which was before a single WarioWare game was made and was due to him in the Mario spin-offs and his Wario Land skills, and how almost nothing from Wario Land is even in his moveset, a lack of any trophy, and 1 maybe 2 songs.

If one of your biggest reasons for a character is "Muh reps," they aren't a character who can stand on their own merits.
No mention of Dark Samus...I am disappoint...
 

Burruni

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No mention of Dark Samus...I am disappoint...
To be fair, Dark Samus talk got cut down a lot since the AT.
She's more important than the hunters but less so than Ridley.
I kinda omitted her because of it being unlikely she'll be brought back anytime soon.
 
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(WARNING: This post is VERY much salty, and I mean no offense to anybody with anything I say in this post, little of which applies specifically to Smashboards. Proceed with caution if you don't want to listen to a teenager rambling about Smash speculation and it's many issues. :p)

Honestly, Smash speculation in it's entirety since the Ballot was revealed seems to be less about the speculation aspect and more like a bunch of people saying that their character is more likely than yours. Like, I get it, you don't think my wants are particularly likely, but there's a reason people call them PERSONAL wants, not "things that are likely that I want". :p Speculation's become less of a, well, speculation and more along the lines of character propaganda campaigns. All I hear in this side of the community is stuff like "VOTE KRYSTAL!", "VOTE SNAKE!", "VOTE DAISY!", etc. Not to say I have any ill will to them, I certainly don't, but it's a trend that I'm not fond of.

This isn't a political campaign, and we need to stop treating it like one; otherwise, it leads to undesired toxicity between fans, and that's no fun for anybody. Also, the attitude I sometimes see in these sorts of areas (especially on Reddit) is honestly some of the worst I've ever seen in a fandom; and I come from the franchise that's caused people to cry "Ruined FOREVER!" since the year after it launched. When you can one-up THAT with how toxic this community can be at times, that is a BIG issue.

Mention that you want Ridley as a character? SAKURAI SAID HE'S TOO BIG LOL! Want an oddball, extremely bizarre pick like Optimus Prime? YOUR DUMB FOR THINKING HE HAS A CHANCE! Hell, even mention that you want a Pokemon that isn't Sceptile (who I would be fine with) or Blaziken? NOT GONNA HAPPEN, BLAZIKEN/SCEPTILE ARE MORE LIKELY!

It's like we've become a strict camp where only the characters we deem "acceptable" can be desired, and people who don't follow what we deem "acceptable" simply can't craft things for the character they want in the game, but need to follow a book of rules that, if they don't follow every one of them to the letter, means they can't express their deviation from this "standard" of who can be in the game; which leads to utter stagnation since everybody can only talk about the characters a bunch of text allows them to, meaning we don't see those wacky, oddball but intriguing choices anymore. It's just a pool of "We want more veterans back!" and "We want this small group of newcomers in!". There's no FUN of speculation anymore, it's all serious business and whoever happens to have the most support behind them who get to shine at the tops of the board, while others just languish in obscurity, buried under the hundreds upon hundreds of other choices no longer deemed "acceptable".

If we need to regulate speculation, we need to do it in a way that DOESN'T hamstring people's creativity. Make it so the character needs to have some kind of involvement in a Nintendo-made game, like Splatoon. But solely basing things on the Ballot is forgetting the other side of this sort of practice; deals between companies. If Nintendo has the ability to negotiate with Hasbro to get their IP's in stuff like Splatoon, it definitely means they could do it for Smash. Hasbro would have to be daft not to see how much potential marketing that having their famous character alongside some of the biggest names in gaming gives them. Yes, some people will complain if it happened, but the money they'd make would more than outweigh the complaints from the company's perspective.

Of course, I'm not saying that sort of deal will happen, but now that the two are on legal speaking terms, it's a whole new scenario for us. We've never had this situation before, and so there's that enchanting mystery about what it could mean for the future; we don't know if it's only a one-time thing or if they might do this for other things, too. And since Shovel Knight opened the doors for non-Nintendo produced amiibo? There's an even bigger incentive for the two companies to continue working together. If Hasbro knows there's the ability for them to maybe make more merchandise for their biggest IP, they'll leap at the chance to do it. And Nintendo will still make money from it because of the fact that it's their own line of figures, so they certainly wouldn't be against it.

But what do I know? I'm just a 17-year old kid who wants someone as ridiculously unlikely as Optimus Prime in Smash Bros. Clearly I'm just being dumb for thinking outside the norm for a character choice that isn't some hilariously unlikely retro character, yet another Mario character or any of the "normal" picks. :/
 

Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
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To be fair, Dark Samus talk got cut down a lot since the AT.
She's more important than the hunters but less so than Ridley.
I kinda omitted her because of it being unlikely she'll be brought back anytime soon.
I am still disappoint...
 

Grimnir

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Let's try to keep it civil, yes? I see some heated stuff going on in here. That's no fun. Remember, we're talking about a video game here.
Anybody who is complaining about Lucina is a whiny brat.

She's extra. She wasn't originally planned to be seperate. It was her and the other two clones, or nothing. You wouldn't get your precious K.Rool or someone else if Lucina wasn't in the game.
I just hope the hypocrisy isn't lost on you.

Or does it not count when you do it?
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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I just hope the hypocrisy isn't lost on you.

Or does it not count when you do it?
Problem is...that's a reality. I'm not flaming anybody. I'm simply stating the truth. There are many people on here who don't really understand the deal with Lucina and the other clones. What I said is not the same thing as what was being said earlier.

I don't really get why people complain about clones as if they stonewalled their character of choice. They are whiny. I say they're whiny MAINLY because they follow, "Lucina sucks!" with, "X Character would have been better". If you're going to complain about something that, quite frankly didn't HAVE to get added in the first place, then you're acting as if there's been a disservice done unto you, and it's simply not the case.

Go ahead and think i'm being a hypocrite. I don't really care lol. I tell it how it is, and I'd tell it how it is even if I wasn't a moderator.
 
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Problem is...that's a reality. I'm not flaming anybody. I'm simply stating the truth. There are many people on here who don't really understand. What I said is not the same thing as what was being said earlier.

I don't really get why people complain about clones as if they stonewalled their character of choice. They are whiny. If you're going to complain about something that, quite frankly didn't HAVE to get added in the first place, then you're acting as if there's been a disservice done unto you, and it's simply not the case.

Go ahead and think i'm being a hypocrite. I don't really care lol. I tell it how it is, and I'd tell it how it is even if I wasn't a moderator.
I mean (s)he has a point. . . but it isn't really what you said but how you said it. I don't mean to say we must always be nice and never disagree with people but calling people bunch of brats for a belief isn't exactly the best way to go about things. It surely wont make people stop illogically hating clones that's for sure.

And I say this as someone who had a dark pit support sig for month's after the leak.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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Well then let me rephrase.

Those who believe Lucina, Doctor Mario and Dark Pit are bad choices, realize this...The 3 of them are either there or not at all. K.Rool or your favorite whoever it is doesn't get in otherwise.

If you're going to complain about them, then yeah...you're pretty much being a brat. I may have come off strong, but that's pretty much what you're doing. You're complaining about something because it didn't go your way. That's silly and childish.

lel i'm turning into Venom Snake
 

Ura

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TBH though, if theirs one clone people can be justified in complaining about, it's Dark Pit.

Docplays a lot differently than Mario now that Mario had some changes to his moveset in Brawl and that Doc is a more powerful yet slower version of Mario. Lucina's lack of tipper and her sword being powerful across her blade makes her different than Marth even if she's really cloney (is that even a word lol). Dark Pit doesn't really have anything going for him really other than having a different neutral B and some other very small differences that you would hardly ever see while playing. Every clone in Smash history felt different than their originators to some degree and yet DP is the only one that's almost literally the same as his originator. Honestly, Alph could have been done a lot better as a clone character with his rock Pikmin moveset and he would still be pretty different to Olimar than DP is to Pit.

Also, here's how I would rank all of the Smash clones in terms of how unique they are from their originators.

Tier 0 (Full Clone, might as well be an alt)

:4darkpit:

Tier 1 (Almost a Full Clone)

:4lucina::pichumelee::younglinkmelee::falcomelee::drmario::luigi64:

Tier 2 (Almost a Semi-Clone)

:4drmario::roymelee::ganondorfmelee:

Tier 3 (Semi-Clone)

:4feroy::4falco::4ganondorf::4tlink::jigglypuff64:

Tier 4 (Quasi-Clone)

:4lucas::4luigi::wolf:

Tier 5 (Can't even be called a Clone, only has 1 move similar to another character)

:4myfriends::4lucario:
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Winterwhite
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Clone talk makes my head spin. Can't we just enjoy the characters for who they are?

I mean, yeah, Dark Pit is mostly interchangeable with Pit, but he has a cool victory theme so there's that.
 

Ura

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True though alt status fits him a lot better IMO. Either that or Sakurai could have given him a little more dev time and do more with DP. He does has a lot of moveset potential he can pull out from KI:U.
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Winterwhite
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I don't care enough about the fine details to distinguish between alt / clone.

The character is in the game, we need to accept it, because it says something about the community that we can't get over it nigh-on a year after the game's release.
 
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True though alt status fits him a lot better IMO. Either that or Sakurai could have given him a little more dev time and do more with DP. He does has a lot of moveset potential he can pull out from KI:U.
No.
Having him as an alt when he could (for free nonetheless) be a full on character would be silly. Yeah he isn't super duper unique but at least he is playable with his own little quirks (arrows).

People always want MORE customization. I don't see a good reason to give fans LESS options . . .
 
D

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There would be less complaints about Dark Pit if Sakurai altered damage and knockback properties of his blade attacks (F-Tilt is a step in the right direction, but by itself, it comes off as pointless).

He doesn't even need to make up some excuse for it either. Pittoo's using the Silver Bow while Pit's using the Palutena's Bow.
The two weapons have different melee properties in Uprising, Sakurai's own game. Why do they have just about the same exact properties in Smash, then?
 
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