Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[Cutie Gwen]

I assume you're talking strictly OoT and MM because if you're talking about the series in general, then what you're saying doesn't apply. YLink would be my answer because he was more prominent in the 2 games as a whole.

And the Link in both Brawl and Sm4sH is TP Link and not OoT Link so that last point doesn't mean anything.

Tink killed Ganondorf. By saying 'DURRHURR SAME CHARACTER' then by that logic Yink is already playable, he's just grown up. TPLink was probably young unless he came out of the womb as a teenager yelling HAAAAAA

 

[Ura]

Tink killed Ganondorf. By saying 'DURRHURR SAME CHARACTER' then by that logic Yink is already playable, he's just grown up. TPLink was probably young unless he came out of the womb as a teenager yelling HAAAAAA

You're not being clear here. I thought you were asking me who was more iconic between Child and Teen Link in OoT. Now you're asking me to compare YLink with TLink. Also, I have no idea what you meant in that last sentence.

Also, for what it's worth. If TLink was meant to replace YLink forever, then why didn't he take the YLink name? Sakurai giving that Link a different name shows that he's still leaving the possibility of YLink returning open in the future.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're not being clear here. I thought you were asking me who was more iconic between Child and Teen Link in OoT. Now you're asking me to compare YLink with TLink. Also, I have no idea what you meant in that last sentence.

Also, for what it's worth. If TLink was meant to replace YLink forever, then why didn't he take the YLink name? Sakurai giving that Link a different name shows that he's still leaving the possibility of YLink returning open in the future.

I didn't ask 'which was more iconic?' and even then, Adult Link was the correct answer
Simple. The cellshading. Next you'll say 'why not say Cellda?' And how is he showing the possibility? Roy came back because Lucina didn't take his gimmick. Tink DID take Yink's gimmick

 

[Curious Villager]

Most Zelda fans didn't really care much for Young Link until they started caring for Majora's Mask. Before then, it was his adult counterpart that carried most of the popularity within the Zelda fanbase. Even through Brawl, Toon Link was far more popular, especially in Japan. And he started to stick around for Smash 4 since he remained a recurring face even beyond the remakes.

More over. Toon Link and Young Link won't work as alts due to their vastly different body proportions and size. It's like making Pichu an alt of Pikachu, which won't work either due to their different proportions.

It's not confirmed to be the case though. I think the alts are very irrelevant to what he represents, he represents the Toon games than anything else.

If I recall correctly, it was once stated that Toon Link was a more modernized version of classic NES Link (Hence his Beta Tunic). So in that sense, he does kinda also represent the earlier days of Zelda too.

 

[Schnee117]

Mashpotato Samurai could have thought of a solution to that problem.

But he didn't.
Not to mention that saying "He could" is a terrible argument. There are many things Sakurai "could" have done with Smash Bros.

Think of temporary transformation attacks like when Pac-Man temporarily turns into his pizza form for some attacks.

That would just be tedious.
An attack with a mask transformation would involve:
- Put a mask on
- Transform into a race with very different proportions.
- Do said attack which he'd probably also have to recover from.
- Take mask off
- Transform back into Young Link

Pac-Man on the other hand retains the same basic body shape of a sphere making it much easier for him to temporarily transform.

Also, for what it's worth. If TLink was meant to replace YLink forever, then why didn't he take the YLink name?

Because Toon Link is, unsurprisingly, a Cartoon version of Link.

 

[Aetheri]

Yes, I am aware of this completely which is why I responded with this:

Think of temporary transformation attacks like when Pac-Man temporarily turns into his pizza form for some attacks.


It's not confirmed to be the case though. I think the alts are very irrelevant to what he represents, he represents the Toon games than anything else.

Pac man turning i to his pizza form is a bit different than a child turning into a Goron...

 

[Deleted member]

The reason Toon Link is called Toon Link is because it's a more fitting name for him. (since he is, duh, a cartoony version of Link)

I do wish Toon Link was just given the name Young Link just because it would save up a lot of trouble.

 

[Morbi]

Most Zelda fans didn't really care much for Young Link until they started caring for Majora's Mask. Before then, it was his adult counterpart that carried most of the popularity within the Zelda fanbase. Even through Brawl, Toon Link was far more popular, especially in Japan. And he started to stick around for Smash 4 since he remained a recurring face even beyond the remakes.

More over. Toon Link and Young Link won't work as alts due to their vastly different body proportions and size. It's like making Pichu an alt of Pikachu, which won't work either due to their different proportions.

If I recall correctly, it was once stated that Toon Link was a more modernized version of classic NES Link (Hence his Beta Tunic). So in that sense, he does kinda also represent the earlier of Zelda too.

I would have thought that Orcarina of Time was the reason people started caring for him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Another possible reason for calling Tink Tink instead of Yink is because Tink doesn't grow up in his games but stays as a child

 

[Ura]

Again, both Links are "Young" Links so it would make sense for that Link to take the Young Link name in Brawl. Saying "we'll he's cartoony" is a stupid argument if he was meant to permanently replace that Link.

 

[Champ Gold]

I would have thought that Orcarina of Time was the reason people started caring for him.

Not exactly. OoT was more about Adult Link with the popularity, remember not a lot of people liked playing YLink and wanted more adventures with Adult Link (see Twilight Princess). Also remember, MM really wasn't the popular Zelda for a while until around 2011 and 2012 where MM 3D was a highly requested game after OoT 3D. That's not to say YLink isn't popular but YLink's popularity rides on MM moreso than OoT and most other younger Link designs look radically different from OoT/MM version.

As of now, he represents MM moreso than OoT

 

[BluePikmin11]

If I recall correctly, it was once stated that Toon Link was a more modernized version of classic NES Link (Hence his Beta Tunic). So in that sense, he does kinda also represent the earlier days of Zelda too.

Did Sakurai say that or someone from the Zelda team?
It may not be Sakurai's perspective of the character, he may just see him as representing the Toon side than anything else.

 

[Curious Villager]

I would have thought that Orcarina of Time was the reason people started caring for him.

It was the adult Link that carried most of the popularity. I've seen quite a number of Zelda fans saying that they usually find the child portion of Ocarina of Time, the less interesting part of the game, or even rush through it entirely just so they can play the Adult Link portion.

Young Link didn't really start rising into popularity until Majora's Mask started to become more popular.

Did Sakurai say that or someone from the Zelda team?
It may not be Sakurai's perspective of the character, he may just see him as representing the Toon side than anything else.

I think it was either Aunuma or Miyamoto who stated this when they had an interview in regards to Toon Link. If I recall correctly.

 

[Morbi]

It was the adult Link that carried most of the popularity. I've seen quite a number of Zelda fans saying that they usually find the child portion of Ocarina of Time, the less interesting part of the game, or even rush through it entirely just so they can play the Adult Link portion.

Young Link didn't really start rising into popularity until Majora's Mask started to become more popular.

I think it was either Aunuma or Miyamoto who stated this when they had an interview in regards to Toon Link. If I recall correctly.

I suppose it is difficult to seperate your experiences from the masses if it is a long time assumption. Regardless, Young Link would be a great addition with or without Majora Mask influenced moves. I have no idea if we are debating whether or not a second Link negates the possibility of a third Link or not. But, I obviously believe that if a character is objectively different that they are worth a consideration. Link, like Ganondorf, has so much move-set potential that is never truly utilized by their Smash incarnations.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think it was either Aunuma or Miyamoto who stated this when they had an interview in regards to Toon Link. If I recall correctly.

If that's the case, then we can't say Toon Link was also meant to represent the older games. Leaving the only notable possibility of adding him was to represent his Toon side.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I suppose it is difficult to seperate your experiences from the masses if it is a long time assumption. Regardless, Young Link would be a great addition with or without Majora Mask influenced moves. I have no idea if we are debating whether or not a second Link negates the possibility of a third Link or not. But, I obviously believe that if a character is objectively different that they are worth a consideration. Link, like Ganondorf, has so much move-set potential that is never truly utilized by their Smash incarnations.

Ganondorf is not only one of the best examples of unfitting moveset for the actual character, but he's proof that Sakurai'll never change veterans

 

[KimKarsmashian]

I... never knew there were people who really wanted Young Link back and disliked Toon Link. Everyone's got a fandom, I suppose. Even a friend of mine wanted Dr. Mario back. Can't wait for the "Dark Pit for Smash 5!" threads that will inevitably pop up.

In any case, Sakurai resurrected Dr. Mario from the grave because he thought the idea of him shooting fireballs was too horrific to even bear. I don't know if he'd be willing to give Young Link an entirely new moveset. We've had old-man Falcondorf for 3 games now.

The 'no transformations' thing is a temporary thing for this iteration of Smash, right? I don't see why it should be brought back when there are people who liked transformations. Were transformations strongly disliked? Some transformations *side-eyes Samus* were extremely tedious and unnecessary and their removal was good. But I wouldn't mind the return of Pokemon trainer, for example. I know we're all used to solo Charizard now, unfortunately. I still liked Ivysaur as a fighter, since now the only other quadruped is Duck Hunt. Perhaps if he removed the "gets weaker over time" mechanic from PT, more people would be open to his re-inclusion? I don't know if people would want to reincorporate Zelda/Sheik, but I wouldn't mind. it'd give me a reason to play zelda

Spoiler

this thread is living proof that no news makes us thirsty

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Ganondorf is not only one of the best examples of unfitting moveset for the actual character, but he's proof that Sakurai'll never change veterans

Except Pit~ :3

 

[Wintropy]

Except Pit~ :3

And Bowser~ :3

And Yoshi~ :3

And Zero Suit Samus~ :3

And Sheik~ :3

And Charizard~ :3

And Young Toon Link~ :3

 

[Ura]

Not exactly. OoT was more about Adult Link with the popularity, remember not a lot of people liked playing YLink and wanted more adventures with Adult Link (see Twilight Princess). Also remember, MM really wasn't the popular Zelda for a while until around 2011 and 2012 where MM 3D was a highly requested game after OoT 3D. That's not to say YLink isn't popular but YLink's popularity rides on MM moreso than OoT and most other younger Link designs look radically different from OoT/MM version.

As of now, he represents MM moreso than OoT

Honestly, it sounds like you're just trying to discredit YLink's popularity by saying "Well you know people only fondly remember the older Link and not the younger Link" which is untrue. Sorry if that's not the case but that's the vibe i'm getting from you. Yeah, there's no denying that the older Link is the more popular of the two but that doesn't change the fact that the younger version is still very popular even if we're only taking in to account OoT and not MM because he was still a major part of the game and the game ends with him and not his older self. Speaking of MM by the way, it was still popular even when it was released. It's just that people didn't like the 3-day system and other gameplay mechanics.

Honestly, i'm willing to bet that if YLink were to return with his moveset plus his MM masks, nobody on SB or anywhere else would complain about him returning. I've even seen some people who said they would like it if YLink came back with the moveset I mentioned above.

 

[Morbi]

I... never knew there were people who really wanted Young Link back and disliked Toon Link. Everyone's got a fandom, I suppose. Even a friend of mine wanted Dr. Mario back. Can't wait for the "Dark Pit for Smash 5!" threads that will inevitably pop up.

In any case, Sakurai resurrected Dr. Mario from the grave because he thought the idea of him shooting fireballs was too horrific to even bear. I don't know if he'd be willing to give Young Link an entirely new moveset. We've had old-man Falcondorf for 3 games now.

The 'no transformations' thing is a temporary thing for this iteration of Smash, right? I don't see why it should be brought back when there are people who liked transformations. Were transformations strongly disliked? Some transformations *side-eyes Samus* were extremely tedious and unnecessary and their removal was good. But I wouldn't mind the return of Pokemon trainer, for example. I know we're all used to solo Charizard now, unfortunately. I still liked Ivysaur as a fighter, since now the only other quadruped is Duck Hunt. Perhaps if he removed the "gets weaker over time" mechanic from PT, more people would be open to his re-inclusion? I don't know if people would want to reincorporate Zelda/Sheik, but I wouldn't mind. it'd give me a reason to play zelda

Spoiler

this thread is living proof that no news makes us thirsty

Speaking of fireballs. Which Link shoots fire arrows in Melee that is not currently in the game? Thank you Lord and Savior Sakurai, it would make literally no sense for Toon Link to use fire arrows so we need Young Link to be a seperate character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Except Pit~ :3

And Bowser~ :3

And Yoshi~ :3

And Zero Suit Samus~ :3

And Sheik~ :3

And Charizard~ :3

And Young Toon Link~ :3

Major changes ladies, major moveset changes

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ganondorf is not only one of the best examples of unfitting moveset for the actual character, but he's proof that Sakurai'll never change veterans

You have contradiction there. Sure he may not change the overall playstyle, but he can still give them new different moves to differentiate him from Toon Link.

 

[Champ Gold]

Sakurai will add a few changes towards a character but won't do anything drastic like their moveset. The only character he did it for was and that was due to the rocket heels but she still has most of her moves from Brawl.

I don't remember any drastic changes from any Smash character especially considering what happened to &

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You have contradiction there. Sure he may not change the overall playstyle, but he can still give them new different moves to differentiate him from Toon Link.

Notice how Roy's Melee Marth reincarnate

 

[Zelbur]

Major changes ladies, major moveset changes

I would say Shiek Charizard and Zamus have had major moveset changes.....

Edit: Shiek has 2 new moves, Zamus has 1 and so does Charizard

 

[BluePikmin11]

Notice how Roy's Melee Marth reincarnate

What are you trying to tell me here.

 

[Morbi]

You have contradiction there. Sure he may not change the overall playstyle, but he can still give them new different moves to differentiate him from Toon Link.

Link himself is also another great example of that. I mean, honestly, I have no idea why we can have three "Marth" play-styles in the game without issue but three versions of one of the original 12, one of Nintendo's most iconic characters, who IS iconic because of all of his different incarnations, is out of the question.

Also, Majora's Mask 3D re-release and muh "relevancy."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I would say Shiek Charizard and Zamus have had major moveset changes.....

A few special moves isn't major. Major is complete revamp. Like switching Pit's main weapon from Bow to Club

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Major changes ladies, major moveset changes

Well, three changed Specials seem pretty significant, in the case of Pit.

He's almost a different character.

 

[Wintropy]

Major changes ladies, major moveset changes

Well, three of Pit's specials were changed, in addition to the fact that the only special that remains the same as it is in Brawl, i.e. his arrows, function very differently.

He just plays very differently.

EDIT: 'd by the pretty foxy lady~

Notice how Roy's Melee Marth reincarnate

He really isn't.

Melee Marth is a spacing god that wrecks fools in footsies.

Roy is a super-aggro rushdown fighter that wrecks fools in advantage.

Just to clarify, I don't care much for either side of this debate, I just love to play devil's advocate~ :3

 

[Ura]

The only similarity Sm4sH Roy has with Melee Marth is his neutral B which is only similar in animation and totally different in gameplay. Everything about Roy in this game is totally nothing I would expect beforehand.

If anything, Melee Roy is Melee Marth's reincarnate

 

[Curious Villager]

If that's the case, then we can't say Toon Link was also meant to represent the older games. Leaving the only notable possibility of adding him was to represent his Toon side.

He did say that a child Link was important to him though which is partly why we always have two Link's since Melee. Thus Toon Link representing moreso all the games that Link has been a child in. Not just the ones where he looked cartoony.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, three changed Specials seem pretty significant, in the case of Pit.

He's almost a different character.

His A moves are mostly the same, one of your examples being Mirror Shield but on both sides

What are you trying to tell me here.

Roy has Marth's old playstyle but with the sweetspot adjustment being more like Roy's back in Melee

 

[Zelbur]

A few special moves isn't major. Major is complete revamp. Like switching Pit's main weapon from Bow to Club

Does it help that the whole style of the game is different? These and more characters are played much differently.

 

[Wintropy]

His A moves are mostly the same, one of your examples being Mirror Shield but on both sides

The fact that his side-b transitioned from a spinning reflector ring of flurry damage to Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost that also happens to have a reflector effect is a pretty big change.

That's on par with your example of Pit's bow being changed to a club.

Roy has Marth's old playstyle but with the sweetspot adjustment being more like Roy's back in Melee

No he doesn't.

The two play totally differently.

 

[Champ Gold]

Honestly, it sounds like you're just trying to discredit YLink's popularity by saying "Well you know people only fondly remember the older Link and not the younger Link" which is untrue. Sorry if that's not the case but that's the vibe i'm getting from you. Yeah, there's no denying that the older Link is the more popular of the two but that doesn't change the fact that the younger version is still very popular even if we're only taking in to account OoT and not MM because he was still a major part of the game and the game ends with him and not his older self. Speaking of MM by the way, it was still popular even when it was released. It's just that people didn't like the 3-day system and other gameplay mechanics.

Honestly, i'm willing to bet that if YLink were to return with his moveset plus his MM masks, nobody on SB or anywhere else would complain about him returning. I've even seen some people who said they would like it if YLink came back with the moveset I mentioned above.

I wouldn't complain either but like what @ Cutie Gwen said about YLink's changes, unless he gives him a mega overhaul on a moveset and I don't see that happening. YLink for me to accept him needs that overhaul and considering the situation of transformations, I don't see it happening.

You have contradiction there. Sure he may not change the overall playstyle, but he can still give them new different moves to differentiate him from Toon Link.

Roy's situation is a lot different because in Melee, he has a major difference in moveset with Marth and Brawl redid Marth to where if Roy was bright back and declone they would be insanely separated. Plus there's the aesthetic difference they both have that makes them different. YLink like we said, has the same green tunic, hat and design like all the Links and whatever he brought TLink does. You need to straight declone him to where he has a original moveset and shares almost nothing with both Links and that won't happen for a while

 

[JaidynReiman]

Speaking of fireballs. Which Link shoots fire arrows in Melee that is not currently in the game? Thank you Lord and Savior Sakurai, it would make literally no sense for Toon Link to use fire arrows so we need Young Link to be a seperate character.

http://www.ign.com/wikis/the-legend-of-zelda-wind-waker/Fire_and_Ice_Arrows


Try again.

 

[Morbi]

The fact that his side-b transitioned from a spinning reflector ring of flurry damage to Captain Falcon's Raptor Boost that also happens to have a reflector effect is a pretty big change.

That's on par with your example of Pit's bow being changed to a club.

I do not believe so. Pit uses his bow for pretty much all of his normals, so changing it to a club would influence all of his normals. That is just one special.

 

[Ura]

And to think all of this started when I just said some people would like YLink in the future even with TLink back.

.....I honestly do hope that YLink returns in the next game with a Melee/MM moveset. That way, this whole debate will finally come to an end.