Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Don't know, but point is, Gengar won that. And be honest, you only want John Raimi because he was brought up a while ago

Yeah, but I looked up his game and who he is and I actually like him as an idea for a playable fighter. I like obscure characters, they have this weird charm about them.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Hey everyone, i have good news:

Source: http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/2...-amiibo-listed-for-use-with-super-smash-bros/
Could this mean that Shovel Knight is confirmed for Smash Bros 4?

https://twitter.com/YachtClubGames/status/634787994893811712

 

[Chandeelure]

Why is that leak so popular? It's just the Smashified photoshopped in a box.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

People will say whatever they want about whatever character because they simply don't like them. It's a sad reality of Smash speculation. For example, user upon user will say, "Snake has no chance because of Konami/Kojima!" then not elaborate or respond to something that counters an argument. A lot of what people say is a cover for, "I don't like the character/that character will get in my character's way/I don't know how to argue someone so i'll just say this to counter that"

For example, "Kojima isn't at Konami. He'd be insulted!" The guy has flat out said Sakurai can use Snake. Mega Man's creator wasn't at Capcom when Mega Man was added. Big whoop.

I mean yeah, a character like Gengar, while having some cool ideas that could go with him in Smash, is a fairly minor pokemon. That itself hurts his chances. But some people don't even entertain the idea of a character. We're all guilty of it.

Even if I come up with amazing ideas for Professor E.Gadd, somebody is gonna say, "NOPE. TOAD IS MORE IMPORTANT". Really? Come on.

Think of it this way. Even if Toad has all the reason in the world to be in, no matter what you say, a boring Toad is worse than an exciting E.Gadd.

I don't know. I think a lot of "speculators" use all this hoo-hah (not Diddy) rather than getting excited about what a character can do. I always rant about it, I am aware. But it's just sad to me. We don't even consider some fun ideas from a not often talked about character.

I mean obviously there are other requirements characters need to meet. Gameplay isn't the be all end all. But the sales talk and what not is booooooooooooring. To me anyway.

 

[Troykv]

People will say whatever they want about whatever character because they simply don't like them. It's a sad reality of Smash speculation. For example, user upon user will say, "Snake has no chance because of Konami/Kojima!" then not elaborate or respond to something that counters an argument. A lot of what people say is a cover for, "I don't like the character/that character will get in my character's way/I don't know how to argue someone so i'll just say this to counter that"

For example, "Kojima isn't at Konami. He'd be insulted!" The guy has flat out said Sakurai can use Snake. Mega Man's creator wasn't at Capcom when Mega Man was added. Big whoop.

I mean yeah, a character like Gengar, while having some cool ideas that could go with him in Smash, is a fairly minor pokemon. That itself hurts his chances. But some people don't even entertain the idea of a character. We're all guilty of it.

Even if I come up with amazing ideas for Professor E.Gadd, somebody is gonna say, "NOPE. TOAD IS MORE IMPORTANT". Really? Come on.

Think of it this way. Even if Toad has all the reason in the world to be in, no matter what you say, a boring Toad is worse than an exciting E.Gadd.

I don't know. I think a lot of "speculators" use all this hoo-hah (not Diddy) rather than getting excited about what a character can do. I always rant about it, I am aware. But it's just sad to me. We don't even consider some fun ideas from a not often talked about character.

I mean obviously there are other requirements characters need to meet. Gameplay isn't the be all end all. But the sales talk and what not is booooooooooooring. To me anyway.

I agree 100% with the "important" and "sales things" be the most boring argument to put a Character as "likeable"

If that was the case we would have like +60% of the Roster with Mario, Pokémon and Wii/Mii characters.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

[/URL][/IMG]

I'm hoping this worked out because it's giving me trouble when I try to upload a pic. Anyway, this is a roster that I put together with characters I would like to see. Pretty much every character on there is there for a reason, mainly gameplay.

K.Rool- self explanatory

Isaac- self explanatory. Golden Sun isn't exactly on the same tier as other series, but Isaac is an excellent choice for a number of reasons.

Wonder Red- so much gameplay potential. Same deal as Isaac with maybe not stacking up "merit" wise, but he would be super fun.

Wolf- Self explanatory

Snake- he's got his place in Smash. If he comes back, you can add whoever you freaking want as far as I'm concerned, and I'll be happy. Not to mention, ? 8 Player Smash for the win! Don't worry though. For most people, Snake being a veteran means nothing for him, but everything for Wolf or another vet

Inklings- all the gameplay potential. Quite a bit of popularity to go with it. I don't really care that they're new, they're a fantastic choice.

Honorable mentions are E.Gadd, Dixie and Rayman, because I think they'd be great choices as well.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I just wish Sakurai could make Playstation All-Stars, and get 3rd party line ups like this. Smash: Top row. All-Stars: Bottom row.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I just wish Sakurai could make Playstation All-Stars, and get 3rd party line ups like this. Smash: Top row. All-Stars: Bottom row.

The fact Lara Croft, Spyro, Cloud and Crash Bandicoot never got into All Stars is part of the reason I feel the game ended up being a one off. They are(or were) easily some of the biggest stars on Sony consoles. Hell, I'd of bought it if it contained even one of Crash or Spyro.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The fact Lara Croft, Spyro, Cloud and Crash Bandicoot never got into All Stars is part of the reason I feel the game ended up being a one off. They are(or were) easily some of the biggest stars on Sony consoles. Hell, I'd of bought it if it contained even one of Crash or Spyro.

SE pissed themselves laughing at the thought of letting others use their IP and Activision wanted MONEEEEEHHH. More money than they had

 

[YoshiandToad]

SE pissed themselves laughing at the thought of letting others use their IP and Activision wanted MONEEEEEHHH. More money than they had

SE should be lucky anyone wants to use their IPs still frankly.
The less said about the convuluted mess that is the Final Fantasy series the better, but focusing on Tomb Raider for a second; Lara Croft's new adventures sold pretty well but were considered a failure by the company.
Using her in a fighting game for additional promotion could of helped them claw back some of that lost moolah.

Activision are indeed greedy ****s who have cut their noses off despite their faces, having apparently not realised they COULD GET MORE MONEY from this by using All Stars as a platform to relaunch Crash and Spyro in a respectable way that would net them all the moneys and allow them to further milk their cash cows.

Idiots. The lot of them.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Idiots. The lot of them.

Best way to describe the gaming industry honestly

 

[ZeldaMaster]

You know what's sad? The lack of Ice Climbers and how most people don't really care. They're a two time veteran with extremely unique gameplay. Plus, they're adorable. Now, don't get me wrong, I still want Wolf more, but I think that people should be more considerate when it comes to the ICs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know what's sad? The lack of Ice Climbers and how most people don't really care. They're a two time veteran with extremely unique gameplay. Plus, they're adorable. Now, don't get me wrong, I still want Wolf more, but I think that people should be more considerate when it comes to the ICs.

It's not that we don't care. It's either that there are options we'd prefer or the fact that, oh I don't know...ICE CLIMBERS CAN'T WORK AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

You know what's sad? The lack of Ice Climbers and how most people don't really care. They're a two time veteran with extremely unique gameplay. Plus, they're adorable. Now, don't get me wrong, I still want Wolf more, but I think that people should be more considerate when it comes to the ICs.

Most people don't care now because it's clear that they won't return for this Smash. I'm sure more people will start caring when Smash 5 is announced.

EDIT: TehEpicRyuga'd

 

[Roberto zampari]

I highly doubt that Nintendo ask permission to Konami to include Bomberman, Simon Belmont and Solid Snake, since that Konami is now making Pachinko Games with erotic games and the worst, the Konami now treat your employees like slaves.

Sometimes, Super Smash Bros 4 is fanservice not only because of Shulk and Zero Suit Samus in Swimsuits, but by Mii Costumes. If Sakurai plans to add Bayonetta, the game will be PURE FANSERVICE.

Ask to Sakurai that not only need a fighter ballot but a Battlefield ballot, anyone agrees?

 

[SmashChu]

People will say whatever they want about whatever character because they simply don't like them. It's a sad reality of Smash speculation. For example, user upon user will say, "Snake has no chance because of Konami/Kojima!" then not elaborate or respond to something that counters an argument. A lot of what people say is a cover for, "I don't like the character/that character will get in my character's way/I don't know how to argue someone so i'll just say this to counter that"

For example, "Kojima isn't at Konami. He'd be insulted!" The guy has flat out said Sakurai can use Snake. Mega Man's creator wasn't at Capcom when Mega Man was added. Big whoop.

I mean yeah, a character like Gengar, while having some cool ideas that could go with him in Smash, is a fairly minor pokemon. That itself hurts his chances. But some people don't even entertain the idea of a character. We're all guilty of it.

Even if I come up with amazing ideas for Professor E.Gadd, somebody is gonna say, "NOPE. TOAD IS MORE IMPORTANT". Really? Come on.

Think of it this way. Even if Toad has all the reason in the world to be in, no matter what you say, a boring Toad is worse than an exciting E.Gadd.

I don't know. I think a lot of "speculators" use all this hoo-hah (not Diddy) rather than getting excited about what a character can do. I always rant about it, I am aware. But it's just sad to me. We don't even consider some fun ideas from a not often talked about character.

I mean obviously there are other requirements characters need to meet. Gameplay isn't the be all end all. But the sales talk and what not is booooooooooooring. To me anyway.

I think I could say the reverse for you. I mean, you did say this.

Don't worry though. For most people, Snake being a veteran means nothing for him, but everything for Wolf or another vet

So I think your point is more "Snake can totally be in. Stop saying he can't." On Snake, remeber that these are Nintendo's characters. 3rd party characters require a lot of time, effort and money to establish these negotiations. A big reason Ryu was chosen over other third party characters is because Nintendo has the rights to Capcom properties (or established an agreement of some sorts which covered that). Adding Snake is difficult because Nintendo will be negotiating for a character that will ultimately be only 5-7 bucks. That's true of any third party character which is why I don't expect any other third parties unless they are from Namco, Capcom or Sega.

To your other point on characters: Sales matter but they are not a one to one correlation. Duck Hunt was specifically chosen due to the success of the game, Duck Hunt. But sales mean that a characters is noticeable to people playing the game and not die hard fans. All of the characters added in Smash 4 are well known and identifiable in their own series. Toad would always be a better fit than E Gadd because people know Toad. E. Gadd has a large role in the Luigi Mansion games which were subpar by Mario game standards. Toad has been featured in Super Mario Bros 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii/U, Super Mario 3D World and the Mario Kart series. He's a popular character and with so many titles under his belt, you could easily make a move for him. Even Captain Toad will work. Point is, unique characters are bad if no one knows who they are and have no presidence to be included beside being "unique." The unique argument is used just as much so I don't see a reason to say sales or popularity are bad while uniqueness is good. Smash characters need all of those things.

 

[Senselessbreak]

It's not that we don't care. It's either that there are options we'd prefer or the fact that, oh I don't know...ICE CLIMBERS CAN'T WORK AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT

Maybe they couldnt work on a tight development cycle, but they were already finished on both versions, and the development team has had nearly a year now to figure out a compromise to get them to work. They wouldn't throw something out with so much work put into them, without giving it another go.

Besides, if we can assume the two remaining preballot slots are both veterans, and Wolf is one of them. That leaves 6 possible choices for the spot. Ivysaur and Squirtle probably won't get in unless the other does. Young Link is replaced by Toon Link. Snake was cut for issues with Konami. Pichu is the only other realistic choice that could happen, but we just got a DLC Pokemon rep, so maybe, maybe not.

Ice Climbers are finished, just requiring tweaking to get to work. Again Sakurai said he tried his best during the main games release to get them to work, but that was under the pressure of a tight development frame, alongside 50 other characters. Theres a lot more freedom and less stress now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Maybe they couldnt work on a tight development cycle, but they were already finished on both version, and the development team has had nearly a year now to figure out a compromise to get them to work. They wouldn't throw something out with so much work put into them, without giving it another go.

Besides, if we can assume the two remaining preballot slots are both veterans, and Wolf is one of them. That leaves 6 possible choices for the spot. Ivysaur and Squirtle probably won't get in unless the other does. Young Link is replaced by Toon Link. Snake was cut for issues with Konami. Pichu is the only other realistic choice that could happen, but we just got a DLC Pokemon rep, so maybe, maybe not.

Ice Climbers are finished, just requiring tweaking to get to work. Again Sakurai said he tried his best during the main games release to get them to work, but that is under the pressure of a tight development frame, alongside 50 other characters. Theres a lot more freedom and less stress now.

**** no! IC couldn't work on the 3DS because the 3DS would need to be able to have 16 characters on the screen and possibly more. It couldn't handle that. How is that exactly 'done'?

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I highly doubt that Nintendo ask permission to Konami to include Bomberman, Simon Belmont and Solid Snake, since that Konami is now making Pachinko Games with erotic games and the worst, the Konami now treat your employees like slaves.

Sometimes, Super Smash Bros 4 is fanservice not only because of Shulk and Zero Suit Samus in Swimsuits, but by Mii Costumes. If Sakurai plans to add Bayonetta, the game will be PURE FANSERVICE.

Ask to Sakurai that not only need a fighter ballot but a Battlefield ballot, anyone agrees?

The Smash Ballot is fanservice. Most of Smash Bros is just fanservice. Your most wanted Nintendo characters beating each other to a pulp. Shulk's underwear was a swimsuit from the game. Zero Suit Samus's top and shorts aren't really that really that revealing (its not like she's ****ing naked, calm down people) and it was in a Metroid game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Smash Ballot is fanservice. Most of Smash Bros is just fanservice. Your most wanted Nintendo characters beating each other to a pulp. Shulk's underwear was a swimsuit from the game. Zero Suit Samus's top and shorts aren't really that really that revealing (its not like she's ****ing naked, calm down people) and it was in a Metroid game.

Actually, Zamus' alts are based on sportswear too, it's not a bikini, look at women in the olympics

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Actually, Zamus' alts are based on sportswear too, it's not a bikini, look at women in the olympics

Yeah, I know that. I forgot to mention it. I don't get why people get so worked up over Samus's clothes. So what, her belly is showing, she's less skimpy than people I know.

 

[Senselessbreak]

**** no! IC couldn't work on the 3DS because the 3DS would need to be able to have 16 characters on the screen and possibly more. It couldn't handle that. How is that exactly 'done'?

The 3DS game didnt have 8 player Smash, so it would only require 8 Icies at once. The 3DS game could already handle 6 players on screen at once, during the fights with Mii Fighters, so 2 more is within the realm of reason. Besides........thats ONLY if 4 players choose the Ice Climbers at once. What if they limit the Ice Climbers on the 3DS version, to only have 3 players at once selecting them, and then have the 4th player choose another? There are solutions out there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The 3DS game didnt have 8 player Smash, so it would only require 8 Icies at once. The 3DS game could already handle 6 players on screen at once, during the fights with Mii Fighters, so 2 more is within the realm of reason. Besides........thats ONLY if 4 players choose the Ice Climbers at once. What if they limit the Ice Climbers on the 3DS version, to only have 3 players at once selecting them, and then have the 4th player choose another? There are solutions out there.

I ****ed up with 16, I'll give you that. Why would you limit the amount of people playing as a character? That's like saying 'here's lemonade, we have enough, but if there's 4 people, only 3 may drink it' What if all 4 people want to play as IC? 'too bad'? TOO BAD FOR YOU THEY LITERALLY CAN'T HAPPEN

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

The 3DS game didnt have 8 player Smash, so it would only require 8 Icies at once. The 3DS game could already handle 6 players on screen at once, during the fights with Mii Fighters, so 2 more is within the realm of reason. Besides........thats ONLY if 4 players choose the Ice Climbers at once. What if they limit the Ice Climbers on the 3DS version, to only have 3 players at once selecting them, and then have the 4th player choose another? There are solutions out there.

They still didn't work even after Sakurai tried removing several elements, like gravity, from the game. And I doubt they'd use that kind of limitations.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think I could say the reverse for you. I mean, you did say this.

So I think your point is more "Snake can totally be in. Stop saying he can't." On Snake, remeber that these are Nintendo's characters. 3rd party characters require a lot of time, effort and money to establish these negotiations. A big reason Ryu was chosen over other third party characters is because Nintendo has the rights to Capcom properties (or established an agreement of some sorts which covered that). Adding Snake is difficult because Nintendo will be negotiating for a character that will ultimately be only 5-7 bucks. That's true of any third party character which is why I don't expect any other third parties unless they are from Namco, Capcom or Sega.

The part about Snake being $5 to $7...is literally the same thing as Ryu. They have to go through negotiations for any 3rd party. You contradicted your own point in the following sentence lol. It's not something special to any specific 3rd Party.

My point about veterans is that many users will say, "bring back the veterans!" but then say, "...but not Snake". It's hypocritical.

To your other point on characters: Sales matter but they are not a one to one correlation. Duck Hunt was specifically chosen due to the success of the game, Duck Hunt. But sales mean that a characters is noticeable to people playing the game and not die hard fans. All of the characters added in Smash 4 are well known and identifiable in their own series. Toad would always be a better fit than E Gadd because people know Toad. E. Gadd has a large role in the Luigi Mansion games which were subpar by Mario game standards. Toad has been featured in Super Mario Bros 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii/U, Super Mario 3D World and the Mario Kart series. He's a popular character and with so many titles under his belt, you could easily make a move for him. Even Captain Toad will work. Point is, unique characters are bad if no one knows who they are and have no presidence to be included beside being "unique." The unique argument is used just as much so I don't see a reason to say sales or popularity are bad while uniqueness is good. Smash characters need all of those things.

? ? Greninja was decided upon before Pokemon X/Y. I'd almost argue that and are similar. Lucas has the advantage of being from Brawl. Not to mention it's completely your opinion that Luigi's Mansion was subpar.

Yeah, you could easily make a moveset for Toad. But would it be interesting or fun? That's the real question.

You yourself made the Shulk thread. MANY people outside the Smash spec scene have no idea who he is. Xenoblade has sold beans compared to a lot of the series in the game already. Popularity IS a good point. Sales are boring. We don't play as sales.

People always said those things about Toad before Smash 4. But now we've gotten Rosalina and Bowser Jr., both characters who are most likely less known than Toad, yet have unique properties and abilities.

If this were a physical Nintendo Hall of Fame, I would agree that sales are important. However, we don't stare at Smash Bros. We don't show it off. We don't pay money to stare. We pay money to play, and have a unique experience with the game that no other game can provide.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually, IC were cut from the Wii U version because Sakurai didn't want 3DS buyers to feel left out or ripped off. By saying 'Only 3 at a time in a 4 player game' that would be hypocrisy

 

[Senselessbreak]

I ****ed up with 16, I'll give you that. Why would you limit the amount of people playing as a character? That's like saying 'here's lemonade, we have enough, but if there's 4 people, only 3 may drink it' What if all 4 people want to play as IC? 'too bad'? TOO BAD FOR YOU THEY LITERALLY CAN'T HAPPEN

Well in the Wii u version, you can already play as 8 versions of the same character at once, so if you wanted the 3DS version with the intention of playing as the same character multiple times, you are already going to be unable to do so.

Its a compromise, but I'm sure gamers would rather have the icies in the game, and just have a restriction on how many can be selected at once. This would solve a lot of issues, and keep the integrity of the two versions. If you want to play as 8 Ice Climbers at once, just play the Wii U version.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Well in the Wii u version, you can already play as 8 versions of the same character at once, so if you wanted the 3DS version with the intention of playing as the same character multiple times, you are already going to be unable to do so.

Its a compromise, but I'm sure gamers would rather have the icies in the game, and just have a restriction on how many can be selected at once. This would solve a lot of issues, and keep the integrity of the two versions. If you want to play as 8 Ice Climbers at once, just play the Wii U version.

I'm sure that most fans would accept compromise. But the thing is, would Sakurai accept it? I doubt it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well in the Wii u version, you can already play as 8 versions of the same character at once, so if you wanted the 3DS version with the intention of playing as the same character multiple times, you are already going to be unable to do so.

Its a compromise, but I'm sure gamers would rather have the icies in the game, and just have a restriction on how many can be selected at once. This would solve a lot of issues, and keep the integrity of the two versions. If you want to play as 8 Ice Climbers at once, just play the Wii U version.

Apples and oranges, you can play as 8 versions of every character on the Wii U, not in your suggestion for the 3DS. Yes, because gravity, something that got removed in an attempt to make IC work, but failed is a non issue. This is why I hate people who whine about IC being discarded, because Sakurai said he couldn't get them to work and he's working on a much smaller budget. If anything, saying 'weh weh kahnprumiz' is just childish as you're only looking at yourself in fantasy land instead of a irl developer's point of view

 

[Bowserlick]

Might as well just have Tabuu.

 

[SmashChu]

The part about Snake being $5 to $7...is literally the same thing as Ryu. They have to go through negotiations for any 3rd party. You contradicted your own point in the following sentence lol. It's not something special to any specific 3rd Party.

My point about veterans is that many users will say, "bring back the veterans!" but then say, "...but not Snake". It's hypocritical.

You missed the point. Look at all the third party content, including the Mii Fighter costumes. They are all from Sega, Capcom and Namco. Nintendo would not go out of their way to get specific rights to Llyod or Virtual Fighter for a $1 costume. It would not be worth it. We can thus surmise that Nintendo has access to a lot of content from these publishers outside of the specific series in Smash. Nintendo does not have rights to use Konami characters or Snake so they would have to go out and do that just to add Snake for Smash as a DLC fighter. Its a lot more work than is needed for extra content.

You yourself made the Shulk thread. MANY people outside the Smash spec scene have no idea who he is. Xenoblade has sold beans compared to a lot of the series in the game already. Popularity IS a good point. Sales are boring. We don't play as sales.

People always said those things about Toad before Smash 4. But now we've gotten Rosalina and Bowser Jr., both characters who are most likely less known than Toad, yet have unique properties and abilities.

If this were a physical Nintendo Hall of Fame, I would agree that sales are important. However, we don't stare at Smash Bros. We don't show it off. We don't pay money to stare. We pay money to play, and have a unique experience with the game that no other game can provide.

Again, you missed the point. Shulk is the protagonist of his series, one which sparked quite a big campaign to be brought over to the States. The game went on to sell the best in the US, despite a limited release, and led to a sequel. Within his own series, Shulk is very important and he is well known to those who played his games. E Gadd is small part of a larger series. To compare, the equivalent would be asking for Riki over Shulk. Also, Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are very important in the series they are from. If you've played a Mario game since 2007, you have likely seen both of them.

The problem is you see trees, not forest. As a result, you missed the underlying concept. The concept is this:
1)Third parties are not easy to get since you need to negotiate, and likely pay, to be able to use that character
2)While uniqueness is not unimportaint, it is not more important than recognition and can not be used in lieu of it.

What you pointed out were instances where those do not see to be the case at first glace. At first glace, Nintendo has to get the rights to Street Fighter. But when you notice the Mii Fighter costumes which are from numerous third party series, you'll see that it actually support my point. Ryu was added because Nintendo could get the rights to Capcom character far easier than other publishers. Shulk seems like he contradicts my point until you realize that Shulk is incredibly importation in his own series. Its also why Sakurai could add both Robin and Lucina since they are major players in the Fire Emblem franchise (with Awakening being the best selling game in the series). Uniqueness matters which is why those two beat out Chrom (although he was considered), but recognition is why they used characters from Awakening in the first place.

To further emphasize the last point, a character needs to be unique, but also recognizable. The reason I criticized your original point is you were doing the same thing you criticized, just from a different perspective. Sakurai is naturally discriminatory with characters which is how he maintains a strong quality in the roster. Yes, we do play with the characters which is why they should be unique, but fans do not want to play with C tier characters because they are more "unique" than the characters we want.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Apples and oranges, you can play as 8 versions of every character on the Wii U, not in your suggestion for the 3DS. Yes, because gravity, something that got removed in an attempt to make IC work, but failed is a non issue. This is why I hate people who whine about IC being discarded, because Sakurai said he couldn't get them to work and he's working on a much smaller budget. If anything, saying 'weh weh kahnprumiz' is just childish as you're only looking at yourself in fantasy land instead of a irl developer's point of view

Lets put this in a different perspective then, since apparently we are in fantasy land. If Sakurai is on a "smaller budget," then wouldn't it be wise to use the resources you've already created? As in, finish that which you already put time and money into? This is a much more realistic IRL developers point of view, as developers tend to use existing assets all the time when it comes to DLC. For example, most single player DLC packs only use assets that were already created, and use them to create additional areas. Its cheap, and time efficient. Many developers also use the same engine to make fast sequels, and keep the costs low (Such as Oblivion/Fallout 3/ New Vegas) So far we already have 3 veterans as DLC. From an IRL developers point of view, veterans are much cheaper to make, as they require less time to invest into creating new moves. Lucas for example, ripped his animations directly from Brawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jXl1KB3Chk

This saved the developers plenty of time and money, by reusing assets they've already created. So realistically, it is wise for a developer to use the content they've already created, such as the Ice Climbers.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I personally have more interesst in the return of and than . Why? The Ice Climbers are terrbily broken characters with lots of glitches attached in both Melee and Brawl. The remove of chain grabs in this game was beautiful, but I bet if returned, they could still wobble. I was not upset about their removal from the game at all, as I felt they, amongst the transformation characters (ESPECIALLY / and ) they where the most problematic character in the game.

Squirtle and Ivysaur have less issues, and despite them not being "that" important, they are iconic enough by their own merrits. I'd also accept Blastoise and Venusaur instead of them, but just and are cool in my book to. Especially , because it's cute and he had a moveset I thought was fun.

should obviously come back though, no questions asked.

And even merrits his return because his moveset and playstyle where heavily unique, and I personally think he's the coolest 3rd party character Smash has ever had.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Lets put this in a different perspective then, since apparently we are in fantasy land. If Sakurai is on a "smaller budget," then wouldn't it be wise to use the resources you've already created? As in, finish that which you already put time and money into? This is a much more realistic IRL developers point of view, as developers tend to use existing assets all the time when it comes to DLC. For example, most single player DLC packs only use assets that were already created, and use them to create additional areas. Its cheap, and time efficient. Many developers also use the same engine to make fast sequels, as its so much faster (Such as Oblivion/Fallout 3/ New Vegas) So far we already have 3 veterans as DLC. From an IRL developers point of view, veterans are much cheaper to make, as they require less time to invest into creating new moves. Lucas for example, ripped his animations directly from Brawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jXl1KB3Chk

This saved the developers plenty of time and money, by reusing assets they've already created. So realistically, it is wise for a developer to use the content they've already created, such as the Ice Climbers.

Sakurai couldn't fix it on a large budget. Trying to fix this would possibly remove time and money for future characters, including other veterans. IC literally can't work because the 3DS is too weak, that's like saying we should try dropping expensive vases from a huge building to see if it won't break and telling us we should try using a new vase every time

 

[FalKoopa]

Well in the Wii u version, you can already play as 8 versions of the same character at once, so if you wanted the 3DS version with the intention of playing as the same character multiple times, you are already going to be unable to do so.

Its a compromise, but I'm sure gamers would rather have the icies in the game, and just have a restriction on how many can be selected at once. This would solve a lot of issues, and keep the integrity of the two versions. If you want to play as 8 Ice Climbers at once, just play the Wii U version.

Considering they've gone on record saying that they could just barely get 8-Player Smash to work on the Wii U , I heavily doubt it could have supported 16 ICs. Even with normal characters, a lot of background details have to be removed for it work smoothly.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Sakurai couldn't fix it on a large budget. Trying to fix this would possibly remove time and money for future characters, including other veterans. IC literally can't work because the 3DS is too weak, that's like saying we should try dropping expensive vases from a huge building to see if it won't break and telling us we should try using a new vase every time

Based on data mining, and trophy data, the Ice Climbers were removed late development. Late development cuts are caused due to the pressure of time, not money. The money was already put in to develop them, now the remaining money would be used for debugging and testing purposes. It has been almost a year since the development team finished the game, so the point is, they have so much more freedom to work on them without the pressure.

The entire development cycle of both titles was roughly two years, which produced 51 characters, and numerous other content. Sakurai has already stated that Lucas was mostly done for a while now, which imply he was cut late development, and resumed after the game was finished.

Also, iirc, the gematsu leaker stated that the development team was torn between finishing Ness or Lucas for the release.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Every time someone tries to force sales into an argument for or against a character's inclusion, I sigh.

Sure, I'll give you that more sales means more familiarity, more people know about and get excited over the character, they don't have to be big super Nintendo fans to feel included blah blah blah I've heard this song and dance way too much. But as much merit as that does give certain characters, trying to make sales the most important deciding factor on whether or not the character should be in Smash does a great disservice to other great potential characters from lesser-known games. I mean, look at some of the obscure / not super well-known characters already in Smash (being well-known BECAUSE of Smash doesn't count):



Aside from the region-exclusive characters (Lucas, Roy, Marth initially), meaning they're not super well-known by virtue of not being known worldwide, not many people were all that familiar with these characters before Smash escalated their popularity. The F-Zero games were losing popularity due to Mario Kart starting to become the de facto racing game Nintendo would heavily promote instead, the Game & Watches were barely mentioned by the time Melee came out even with the Game & Watch Gallery compilations on the Game Boy, Ice Climber was one very early game with no sequels that sold okay but wasn't super-remembered, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance sold okay but not great, EarthBound was a flop in America, R.O.B. wasn't even really a video game character and his only two games were unpopular because R.O.B. wasn't a a very reliable peripheral, and similarly to Ike's game, Xenoblade Chronicles sold okay but not great, even if it was touted as the best Operation Rainfall game it still didn't reach a super-wide audience, becoming more of a cult hit even if Operation Rainfall and its success was heavily publicized.

But none of that matters, because every single one of these characters is a blast to play in Smash. Even if my mom or little sister doesn't know who any of these characters are, they're still fun as hell and play satisfyingly in the Smash environment, since even they find themselves enjoying them despite not being familiar with them. It doesn't hurt that most of those characters I listed has a small but passionate fanbase for their games.

People really need to stop being obnoxious about sales. A good character choice is a good character choice, stop measuring sales d*cks for your cult hit character's game versus their cult hit character's game, because at the end of the day they're both not super-popular, and that means both of your characters will be less-known than other characters like Mario or Link or Kirby or Fox. Your non-gamer uncle will still have no idea who the hell Ike or Shulk are. One underground character being slightly more popular than another underground character won't always amount to much, so stop focusing so often on an aspect of a character's game that isn't the end-all be-all.

Smash is supposed to be a celebration of Nintendo, not a Hall of Fame like @ Scoliosis Jones mentioned. The most popular characters aren't the only ones that make it in, and there's a good reason for that.

/endrant

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Based on data mining, and trophy data, the Ice Climbers were removed late development. Late development cuts are caused due to the pressure of time, not money. The money was already put in to develop them, now the remaining money would be used for debugging and testing purposes. It has been almost a year since the development team finished the game, so the point is, they have so much more freedom to work on them without the pressure.

The entire development cycle of both titles was roughly two years, which produced 51 characters, and numerous other content. Sakurai has already stated that Lucas was mostly done for a while now, which imply he was cut late development, and resumed after the game was finished.

Also, iirc, the gematsu leaker stated that the development team was torn between finishing Ness or Lucas for the release.

That's different from making the game functional with IC. Why bother with attempts to fix this before other veterans and popular newcomer choices?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Gematsu indeed spoke of this "internal conflict" about the issue of vs . And to be honest, am quite happy it was who returned to the series first. At the very least, EarthBound was actually localised (even in Europe thanks to the VC) and we've been playing with Ness since Smash 64...

 

[Senselessbreak]

Considering they've gone on record saying that they could just barely get 8-Player Smash to work on the Wii U , I heavily doubt it could have supported 16 ICs. Even with normal characters, a lot of background details have to be removed for it work smoothly.

The Ice Climbers were cut late in development. Sakurai has gone on record to say that it was the 3DS version holding them back, and has said there were no issues with them running on the Wii U version.