Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

[ElPanandero]

A copy character in Smash doesn't suit me well for some reason. I can only see it as a palette swap and even then, copy characters are in 1v1 fighting games. I could imagine the game would **** itself when there's an 8 player match going on

It just picks a moveset and carries it for the stock. It would actually make 8 player games crazy fun. Start as Ganon, finish as pikachu, it would create crazy dynamic games

 

[pupNapoleon]

A copy character in Smash doesn't suit me well for some reason. I can only see it as a palette swap and even then, copy characters are in 1v1 fighting games. I could imagine the game would **** itself when there's an 8 player match going on

If it were a prevalent Nintendo character, Id be fine with it; in fact it would be a classier way, to me, to add a character to buff the roster (unlike Dark Pit).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It just picks a moveset and carries it for the stock. It would actually make 8 player games crazy fun. Start as Ganon, finish as pikachu, it would create crazy dynamic games

If anything, that feels more like it should be it's own mode as Trash Tour shouldn't be the only way to have such matches. By my '****ting itself' comment I was also talking about what model and such, not to mention that counts as a transforming character. My biggest problem is that Charade and such have their own models iirc, do you just make everyone a polygon team or something?

 

[ElPanandero]

If anything, that feels more like it should be it's own mode as Trash Tour shouldn't be the only way to have such matches. By my '****ting itself' comment I was also talking about what model and such, not to mention that counts as a transforming character. My biggest problem is that Charade and such have their own models iirc, do you just make everyone a polygon team or something?

Well that's why I chose Ditto (or Mew), they could just transform into a retextured model, texture modeling is super easy comparatively. And it wouldn't have the same problems as "transforming" characters because it would happen in between stocks, not a transformation of pixels or whatever the technical problem was with Shielda, it would operate the same as smash tour final battles actually.

pupNapoleon is right though, it'd be cooler if it was a new character, but I'd like to see one (or since smash is super goofy, use a mokujin stlyle model and attach the moveset to an average Falcon size model and watch hilarioussness ensue as he zips around like pikachu or something, it'd be very sakurai esque)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well that's why I chose Ditto (or Mew), they could just transform into a retextured model, texture modeling is super easy comparatively. And it wouldn't have the same problems as "transforming" characters because it would happen in between stocks, not a transformation of pixels or whatever the technical problem was with Shielda, it would operate the same as smash tour final battles actually.

pupNapoleon is right though, it'd be cooler if it was a new character, but I'd like to see one (or since smash is super goofy, use a mokujin stlyle model and attach the moveset to an average Falcon size model and watch hilarioussness ensue as he zips around like pikachu or something, it'd be very sakurai esque)

If Ditto would theoretically transform into a model then what's the point of playing as Ditto in the first place? Not to mention that just begs the question how it would be retextured

 

[ElPanandero]

If Ditto would theoretically transform into a model then what's the point of playing as Ditto in the first place? Not to mention that just begs the question how it would be retextured

Because it would let you play a different character every stock

 

[A Distant Demon]

Because it would let you play a different character every stock

So why make a character like that when they can just give us All Star VS (like in Project M)
Sure as hell more customizable

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Because it would let you play a different character every stock

Which is something that not only counts as transforming characters, something impossible this time around, and only works outside of 1v1 unless I misunderstood something. Again, what's the visual difference between Mario and DittoMario then? Not to mention if it's the exact same character, there's no point. See Dark Pit, only this would take a lot more time and effort

 

[pupNapoleon]

If Ditto would theoretically transform into a model then what's the point of playing as Ditto in the first place? Not to mention that just begs the question how it would be retextured

Said everyone to Dark Pit.

 

[ElPanandero]

So why make a character like that when they can just give us All Star VS (like in Project M)
Sure as hell more customizable

That also be fun, I like the idea in a character because it can create a more dynamic match in the context, but I suppose All-star could do that too

Which is something that not only counts as transforming characters, something impossible this time around, and only works outside of 1v1 unless I misunderstood something. Again, what's the visual difference between Mario and DittoMario then? Not to mention if it's the exact same character, there's no point. See Dark Pit, only this would take a lot more time and effort

He's not transforming into the opponent, he just gets a moveset assigned to him each stock. And the mechanic is already in place from smash tour so it's possible, it's different than transforming mid-stock as evidence by the smash tour doing it. Visually, i dunno, there's plenty of ways to do it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Said everyone to Dark Pit.

I agree that Dark Pit was the worst addition to the series but what's been done has sadly been done. Literally no reason for Sakurai to pretend the final smash is such a major factor when Koopalings turn into Shadow Mario

 

[A Distant Demon]

Said many to Dark Pit.

Fixed
The point is Dark Pit is cool. Pit is a dweeb who doesn't have a badass theme.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I agree that Dark Pit was the worst addition to the series but what's been done has sadly been done. Literally no reason for Sakurai to pretend the final smash is such a major factor when Koopalings turn into Shadow Mario

I was over it until this website decided they were so similar they couldnt even have their own subforum identities.

As far as Dark Pit being "Cool," and as far as I am aware, we are still in the age of admonishing emo twerps, and admiring the underdog nerd.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He's not transforming into the opponent, he just gets a moveset assigned to him each stock. And the mechanic is already in place from smash tour so it's possible, it's different than transforming mid-stock as evidence by the smash tour doing it. Visually, i dunno, there's plenty of ways to do it

All I'm thinking of is Ditto turning into an exact copy of a character visually too. Which means there's literally the option to pick the characters themselves. Doesn't sound very fun to randomly switch between stocks tbh, because it hinders players too. Imagine, you get one of your favourite characters to play. You die and suddenly your worst character! That's not fun in the slightest.

 

[ElPanandero]

All I'm thinking of is Ditto turning into an exact copy of a character visually too. Which means there's literally the option to pick the characters themselves. Doesn't sound very fun to randomly switch between stocks tbh, because it hinders players too. Imagine, you get one of your favourite characters to play. You die and suddenly your worst character! That's not fun in the slightest.

That's your opinion, I love Mokujin, I love being Yoshimitsu, Jin, and Kuma all in the same game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's your opinion, I love Mokujin, I love being Yoshimitsu, Jin, and Kuma all in the same game.

You have to remember that Soul Caliber is (mobile game advertising with fanservice)...Was supposed to be to a less casual audience, Smash has always been about simplicity

 

[pupNapoleon]

All I'm thinking of is Ditto turning into an exact copy of a character visually too. Which means there's literally the option to pick the characters themselves. Doesn't sound very fun to randomly switch between stocks tbh, because it hinders players too. Imagine, you get one of your favourite characters to play. You die and suddenly your worst character! That's not fun in the slightest.

That actually sounds hilarious and amazing to me, especially for the seemingly minimal coding involved.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

If we can get Dark Pit as his own character, then why not Super Kong?

Inb4 K. Rool and Dixie are more deserving.

 

[ElPanandero]

You have to remember that Soul Caliber is (mobile game advertising with fanservice)...Was supposed to be to a less casual audience, Smash has always been about simplicity

I don't understand. A character switching movesets in between stocks isn't an "un-simple" concept. Give an 8 year old the game and have him switch from pikachu to kirby in one match and he'll figure it out, and probably think it's pretty cool too, and if it's really too hard for him to understand than don't let him pick the transforming chaarcter

Also Moku is from Tekken, Charade is from Soul Calibur, and both are respected fighting franchises, one of which (Tekken) was a pioneer in 3D fighting games, not "a mobile game advertising with fan service" whatever that means

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If we can get Dark Pit as his own character, then why not Super Kong?

Inb4 K. Rool and Dixie are more deserving.

No one is more deserving than DK Rep

That actually sounds hilarious and amazing to me, especially for the seemingly minimal coding involved.

minimal coding? How so?

I don't understand. A character switching movesets in between stocks isn't an "un-simple" concept. Give an 8 year old the game and have him switch from pikachu to kirby in one match and he'll figure it out, and probably think it's pretty cool too, and if it's really too hard for him to understand than don't let him pick the transforming chaarcter

Also Moku is from Tekken, Charade is from Soul Calibur, and both are respected fighting franchises, one of which (Tekken) was a pioneer in 3D fighting games, not "a mobile game advertising with fan service" whatever that means

This argument is literally going nowhere as it's a 50/50 chance on someone thinking it's too confusing and someone enjoying it. My major problem is that unlike PM's All-Star, you're given a character randomly, as in, you don't know what's coming next
'then don't let him pick the transforming character' wat? This argument makes no sense. I'm absolutely terrible with IC, so if I play Brawl or Melee and get them when playing random I should just not select random at all? I don't get that logic
I was talking about the most recent SC thing, I'm tired and I'm not an expert on the matter

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The problem with transformation movesets can be seen with Zelda. If one moveset/character is superior than the other, then why even have the transformation? That's part of the reason why Sheik and Zelda were separated. Sheik was clearly superior to Zelda and essentially made her counterpart irrelevant.

At least that's what I would say the problem is. It could also have something to do with 3DS limitations.

 

[ElPanandero]

No one is more deserving than DK Rep

minimal coding? How so?

This argument is literally going nowhere as it's a 50/50 chance on someone thinking it's too confusing and someone enjoying it. My major problem is that unlike PM's All-Star, you're given a character randomly, as in, you don't know what's coming next
'then don't let him pick the transforming character' wat? This argument makes no sense. I'm absolutely terrible with IC, so if I play Brawl or Melee and get them when playing random I should just not select random at all? I don't get that logic
I was talking about the most recent SC thing, I'm tired and I'm not an expert on the matter

Your argument was it shoudn't be in because it's not simple. I'm saying switching from pikachu to kirby in a match is not a difficult concept, and any child could understand it, and if he is in the minority where it doesn't make sense to him, then just don't pick that character and he won't be confused. Your argument about not liking a character just means that YOU shouldn't pick this transforming character because you don't like it, other people do like it.

EDIT: Scoliosis Jones It's not a character that chooses his moveset, or transforms due to a move mid stock (the limitation with zelda) it's a character who's moveset changes randomly after each stock (like the smash tour mode, thus is possible within the engine)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Your argument was it shoudn't be in because it's not simple. I'm saying switching from pikachu to kirby in a match is not a difficult concept, and any child could understand it, and if he is in the minority where it doesn't make sense to him, then just don't pick that character and he won't be confused. Your argument about not liking a character just means that YOU shouldn't pick this transforming character because you don't like it, other people do like it.

I didn't mean to say 'it shouldn't happen because it's not simple' but rather 'I doubt it'll happen because it's not simple' Again, Smash has been about simplicity, most fighting games, special moves are done with input commands, in Smash however, it's one button. I just feel like it's not fun having a usual 3 stock match with no control over what you're getting and it changing all the time. My argument about not being good with a character means I should just completely ignore the character all together? Even though there's pretty much always that one character who no one's that good with, including Sakurai himself?

 

[ElPanandero]

I didn't mean to say 'it shouldn't happen because it's not simple' but rather 'I doubt it'll happen because it's not simple' Again, Smash has been about simplicity, most fighting games, special moves are done with input commands, in Smash however, it's one button. I just feel like it's not fun having a usual 3 stock match with no control over what you're getting and it changing all the time. My argument about not being good with a character means I should just completely ignore the character all together? Even though there's pretty much always that one character who no one's that good with, including Sakurai himself?

The ignoring was because i thought your simplicity argument was centered around people not understanding, and I don't think this would ever happen, I'm just saying I wish it would. And it would be just as much fun as picking random and going into a game, you have no control over who you get when you select random, but it's still an option, this is just smash-level random. A moku in smash makes more sense than any other fighting game in my opinion, because smash is all about goofy craziness, and playing as 3-4 characters all in one match is about as crazy as it can get. This would be the mario maker stage of character choices

 

[pupNapoleon]

The problem with transformation movesets can be seen with Zelda. If one moveset/character is superior than the other, then why even have the transformation? That's part of the reason why Sheik and Zelda were separated. Sheik was clearly superior to Zelda and essentially made her counterpart irrelevant.

At least that's what I would say the problem is. It could also have something to do with 3DS limitations.

I am not sure what a "transformation character" has to do with a copycat character, other than the limitations of the English language.


There are many characters who are very difficult to learn and master, this has never been what the simplistic gameplay of smash is about; the point is that a character could be picked up and enjoyed, and regardless of if you personally find it pleasurable, many would.

I am not sure what a "transforming character" has to do with a copycat character, other than the limitations of the English language.

I didn't mean to say 'it shouldn't happen because it's not simple' but rather 'I doubt it'll happen because it's not simple' Again, Smash has been about simplicity, most fighting games, special moves are done with input commands, in Smash however, it's one button. I just feel like it's not fun having a usual 3 stock match with no control over what you're getting and it changing all the time. My argument about not being good with a character means I should just completely ignore the character all together? Even though there's pretty much always that one character who no one's that good with, including Sakurai himself?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I didn't mean to say 'it shouldn't happen because it's not simple' but rather 'I doubt it'll happen because it's not simple' Again, Smash has been about simplicity, most fighting games, special moves are done with input commands, in Smash however, it's one button. I just feel like it's not fun having a usual 3 stock match with no control over what you're getting and it changing all the time. My argument about not being good with a character means I should just completely ignore the character all together? Even though there's pretty much always that one character who no one's that good with, including Sakurai himself?

It doesn't make the game any more complicated. If you didn't want to use it, just turn the feature off (If it replaces the random button), or just don't select it.

As a side note, I agree that being able to select a couple characters, and then fighting it out with those characters (similarly to smash tour) would be a great extra mode.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I am not sure what a "transformation character" has to do with a copycat character, other than the limitations of the English language.


There are many characters who are very difficult to learn and master, this has never been what the simplistic gameplay of smash is about; the point is that a character could be picked up and enjoyed, and regardless of if you personally find it pleasurable, many would.

I am not sure what a "transforming character" has to do with a copycat character, other than the limitations of the English language.

Transformation and copycat could probably be considered similar. If the character were something like Ditto or Zoroark, and they had the ability to use other movesets, they would have to put every moveset and all coding from every character in that character's file, much like they did with Pokemon Trainer and his team.

The character would be a disaster balancewise hypothetically. If you pick the character against a Pikachu, and you get Greninja by RNG, you just got screwed with the matchup. Then again someone picking that character competitively is simply asking for trouble.

It's an interesting idea but it just seems like a lot of work. Like I said, you'd have to put all the coding data for every character into one character file. It would never work on the 3DS, assuming that issue is what gave us Solo Charizard.

I feel like the concept would be better off as a mode where you pick a starting character and then get a Mario Kart like block and get a randomly determined character.

 

[ElPanandero]

Transformation and copycat could probably be considered similar. If the character were something like Ditto or Zoroark, and they had the ability to use other movesets, they would have to put every moveset and all coding from every character in that character's file, much like they did with Pokemon Trainer and his team.

The character would be a disaster balancewise hypothetically. If you pick the character against a Pikachu, and you get Greninja by RNG, you just got screwed with the matchup. Then again someone picking that character competitively is simply asking for trouble.

It's an interesting idea but it just seems like a lot of work. Like I said, you'd have to put all the coding data for every character into one character file. It would never work on the 3DS, assuming that issue is what gave us Solo Charizard.

I feel like the concept would be better off as a mode where you pick a starting character and then get a Mario Kart like block and get a randomly determined character.

It'd be different coding wise, it would function the same as a random button and would simply have retextured skins, it would be pretty easy actually

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Random Thought.

Would it be possible that we MAY get a 2nd rep with Sega and/or Namco in the same vein with Capcom (Megaman and Ryu)?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Random Thought.

Would it be possible that we MAY get a 2nd rep with Sega and/or Namco in the same vein with Capcom (Megaman and Ryu)?

If one of those characters is the same tier as Ryu, then yeah maybe. Although I really don't think there's anybody who fits the bill.

Capcom didn't get 2 for a random reason, but more because they have high caliber characters.

Konami has a pretty decent looking pool of characters. Snake, Simon Belmont and Bomberman are pretty good choices.

ElPanandero I'm assuming you know more about coding than I do, so could you elaborate on that? If it works it's pretty interesting, although I think I'd still prefer it as a stand alone mode rather than what Smash Tour does.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Random Thought.

Would it be possible that we MAY get a 2nd rep with Sega and/or Namco in the same vein with Capcom (Megaman and Ryu)?

Probably not. None of them have any real support. And there isn't a character that can pull a Ryu from the two companies by being super iconic and a natural choice for smash.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

With Konami I have no problems actually. I would be perfectly content if we got any of those three in the game. They're all iconic in their own rights, and can be made fit for the series, IMO.

With Namco. Guys like Heihachi (already Mii material), Nightmare, Lloyd (not sur eon him after his Mii Costume...), maybe DigDug? are the ones that seem to stick out the moss.

And with Sega, I can think of Nights and AiAi from Super Monkey Ball. Alex Kidd at that, but I doubt him in comparison with the first two.

Not that many, but would be cool if we got to see any of the ones mentioned above.

 

[ElPanandero]

If one of those characters is the same tier as Ryu, then yeah maybe. Although I really don't think there's anybody who fits the bill.

Capcom didn't get 2 for a random reason, but more because they have high caliber characters.

Konami has a pretty decent looking pool of characters. Snake, Simon Belmont and Bomberman are pretty good choices.

ElPanandero I'm assuming you know more about coding than I do, so could you elaborate on that? If it works it's pretty interesting, although I think I'd still prefer it as a stand alone mode rather than what Smash Tour does.

So basically the difference between a character than transforms (Pokemon Trainer, Shielda) and the character here is that those two aforementioned characters have to be able to change at the press of a button, and go back and forth. This would require the transfer of damage percent at any time, and all the movesets to be 'connected' and interchangeable which is where it becomes more taxing from a coding perspective. The character we're describing would reset and simply choose a moveset at random (being as taxing as the random button) and would simply have to access the associated texture file. Since the movesets don't have to interact, and the coding for a randomly selected moveset already exists under the programmed random button, this would simply acces that coding after every stock. And changing between movesets in between stocks already happens in smash your meaning that it can happen. It would just be instead of "Pit -> Charizard" the game would treat it as "Random -> Random"

It's kind of hard to explain, but there is a difference from what I understand

 

[Ura]

If one of those characters is the same tier as Ryu, then yeah maybe. Although I really don't think there's anybody who fits the bill.

Capcom didn't get 2 for a random reason, but more because they have high caliber characters.

Konami has a pretty decent looking pool of characters. Snake, Simon Belmont and Bomberman are pretty good choices.

ElPanandero I'm assuming you know more about coding than I do, so could you elaborate on that? If it works it's pretty interesting, although I think I'd still prefer it as a stand alone mode rather than what Smash Tour does.

Sega: Sonic and Akira

Capcom: Megaman and Ryu

Namco: Pac-Man and Heihachi

Konami: Snake and Bomberman

 

[A Distant Demon]

So this is a thing
http://smashboards.com/threads/wii-u-3ds-character-boards-closure.421500/

Reminder that MY group will still be open for all people to come and speculate as they so please if they don't want to go to that other thread.
http://smashboards.com/social-forums/predefined-role-character-support.1812/

 

[DizzyBoyGenius]

You know, as weird as this may sound I think Zoroark would have been an excellent addition to the crew as opposed to Greninja or even Charizard with his disguise ability. It sounds like some sort of Kirby ripoff but being able to disguise to the full extent of every move up until you get knocked into regular Zoroark form? It sounds like it would have serious issues though.

 

[A Distant Demon]

It is only now after copy pastaing so much I realize how many active threads we really had. . . Twas a good run folks
(strange Burruni talked about the lock the day before the lock was announced)

 

[The Light Music Club]

Groups only now? Eh, I'll probably be taking my final leave from the boards very soon then. Until Smash 5 starts up hahaha.

 

[AEMehr]

Welcome back then, because Smash for Wii U is Smash 5.

 

[~Skelly~]

Welcome back then, because Smash for Wii U is Smash 5.

Nah, its Smash 4. Everyone knows that Smash 3DS is in fact the unofficial sequel to KI: Uprising.