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Official DLC Character Discussion Thread - Read the new sticky/announcement

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Nah, this is DLC character discussion.

What "unpopular" characters do y'all think has the highest chance of making it?

I'm banking on a Ray model from Custom Robo. Probably Mk III, but hoping for Ray 01. I think that since Ray has appeared in Smash before, he'd at least be in Sakurai's mind, and Sakurai may see the character as a really fun addition to the game. Being able to utilize all the different CR tools would be great. Plus, while it's waning nowadays, Ray had massive support in Japan for a while, and is still in top 25 according to a poll posted a few pages back.
Paper Mario. The guy is barely ever mentioned anywhere but he always seems to score high on pools and could very easily have casuals voting for him. Plus being a mario character means easy marketing.

Dixie Kong is she counts
It's not pointless when that specific region could make the character sell big.
Why sell to an individual region when you can sell to all 3*? K rool and bandana dee would sell in every region. and they seem to be already more popular than the other choices so they would sell even more in those regions anyway. There is no logical reason to choose to a less general demographic hen you have a product that appeals to a far more broad audience.

*There are more than 3 regions anyway. . .

Those kinds of characters that appeal to all regions is rare though. We rarely get something gets high popularity in every region like Mewtwo for example.
again, K rool/Dixie. bandana dee. etc
 
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False Sense

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Those kinds of characters that appeal to all regions is rare though. We rarely get something gets high popularity in every region like Mewtwo for example.
Perhaps they are rare, but they exist. We still have the likes of Wolf and K. Rool, among others, out there that appeal to a worldwide audience. Why resort to adding characters (Third Party characters, at that) that appeal to selective audiences when there are still perfectly good first party character that have universal appeal?
 

Lyngstud

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We should just get Wolf, K. Rool and Inklings, that way we have characters that are highly requested worldwide. Also, all this talk about third party region reps and poor Australia gets nothing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't K. Rool mainly an American thing? I haven't heard him requested once by any of my peers here in Norway, at least.
 

LIQUID12A

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Those kinds of characters that appeal to all regions is rare though. We rarely get something gets high popularity in every region like Mewtwo for example.
King K. Rool, Wolf, Bandanna Dee, Snake, and Inklings are pretty damn requested everywhere you go. And that's just from SG's Japanese polling.

I would hardly call that rare.
 

LIQUID12A

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That's only 5 characters, do you see what I mean by rare.
You expect me to make a "most wanted universal characters" list as big as your DLC predictions for Sm4sh, which was about what, 12 characters?

They can't add that much. The ones I listed are safe picks.
 
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ShinyRegice

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Shovel Knight talk, huh? Okay, let me ride the train and detail my thoughts about the idea.

I remember about the Shovel Knight craze late 2014 and to an extent early 2015, and I even saw him mentioned sometimes as a Smash choice but not often at all. Then after the ballot's reveal the character started to be mentioned much more often and I was clueless about this, "Why this character who was rarely mentioned before gets so much attention right now?" though the character quickly lost momentum as a ballot choice, at least from what I've observed. Then with the recent events the SK craze started again due to some news about him (DLC for his game and amiibo). At this point yeah he's not a nobody anymore and having crossovers with other series kind of became one of his gimmicks (for what I know there's the Kratos and Battletoad cameo in PS4 and XB1 respectively and an appearance in Runbow and Bloodstained).

Though that doesn't mean I'm perfectly fine with Shovel Knight as a Smash choice, actually I'd be very iffy about his inclusion, and downright upset if he's the only ballot character. I have high standards for third-party characters in Smash; I don't want them in just because they'd have a unique moveset. Third-parties don't fulfill the basic requirement of being Nintendo characters, which means their presence must add to Smash a unique awesomeness Nintendo characters aren't going to deliver to be worth it, and their inclusion is always very special. For example, consider this:

- Snake's appeal in Brawl is based on how different he his from the rest of the cast: implementing a non-Nintendo character who comes from a series specifically aimed at "mature" audiences and must be adapted to the Smash format without using his primary weapons (guns) probably was a challenge from Sakurai's perspective, and it ended up into a character who is unique not just by his moveset and playstyle, but for the philosophy behind his inclusion in Smash as a fighter.
- Now consider Mega Man. I'm mentioning here after Snake for one main reason - as a guest character he's basically the anti-Snake. In other words, while Snake's appeal is based on how unfitting he his, Mega Man's appeal, on the exact contrary, is based on how fitting he his. He's a 2D platformer hero who helped solidifying Nintendo's fame during the now "retro" era and he has huge amount of different weapons at his disposal, now wonder why he's so fitting in a Smash environment. His moveset also represents a new design philosophy by making it very diversified among individual moves and fully inspired from weapons he uses in his games.

My problem with Shovel Knight and other indie 2D platformer heroes with "huge moveset potential" is that their appeal as guest characters kind of fades out when Mega Man pretty much already did what could be done with them when it comes to moveset design. Yes I know Mega Man can't use a shovel or magic relics, and I'm sure Shovel Knight would add a new and unique moveset to the game with a unique playstyle, but that's not the point. For comparison's sake it'd be like having both Snake and John Shepard in Smash - two characters from third-party series specifically aimed at "mature" audience and don't seem to fit well in Smash at first glance. It'd make them feel less special. (Of course I'm not saying Shepard is Smash material, just an example.)

Now ignoring the moveset he could have is Shovel Knight a good choice for a guest character in Smash? Honestly I'm not convinced. While he may be an indie icon who has a lot of success right now, I consider Smash to have higher standards for guests than being a craze at the current moment. As such imo adding Shovel Knight in Smash would feel more like a promotion of the character rather than an addition made to solidify Smash as what it is supposed to be. Guests being very rare and special addition to Smash is what makes them interesting in a game supposed to be a giant Nintendo crossover, and I personally don't feel like Shovel Knight has the caliber to do justice to what guests are supposed to be in Smash yet.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I don't think Shovel Knight is anywhere near being an ideal choice as a fighter in Smash, but considering how much momentum he gained since last year I would understand it if he was chosen for playable DLC even though it'd be a choice I'd disagree with. I think I could get over it if we don't get more third-parties after him and we still get actual Nintendo characters thanks to the ballot.

And besides, just because you're "iconic" doesn't mean you're qualifiable for being a guest in Smash. That's why I gave up on supporting Rayman - after putting a lot of thought on him while ignoring my bias I've pretty much accepted that he wouldn't be that much special as a guest in Smash. As a childhood Rayman fan I'm really grateful about the trophies and I don't really feel like asking for more right now.
 
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Wintropy

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(Captain) Toad
Paper Mario
Daisy
Waluigi
Dixie Kong
Cranky Kong
K. Rool
Ganon
Impa
Bandana Dee
Ridley
Sylux
Medusa
Viridi
Hades
Krystal
Tiki
Anna
Porky
Tom Nook
Isabelle
Chibi-Robo
Isaac
Ray
Wonder Red
Jumpman
Reckless Wiimote Safety Man

Yeah, we're really running out of first-party characters.
 

KimKarsmashian

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Think you could add Wolf to that list. :wolf:
Wolf isn't a newcomer, now is he? :p

I've seen some people here list Tom Nook as a potential newcomer, but do you guys think he'd be different from the Villager? I say this as someone who was really pushing for Nook before Villager was revealed. I still would have preferred him to Villager, but he's not getting removed.
 

False Sense

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Wolf isn't a newcomer, now is he? :p

I've seen some people here list Tom Nook as a potential newcomer, but do you guys think he'd be different from the Villager? I say this as someone who was really pushing for Nook before Villager was revealed. I still would have preferred him to Villager, but he's not getting removed.
You never specified. :p

As for Tom Nook, I think Villager took most of what he could do. Villager ended up as a sort of all-encompassing character for the Animal Crossing series, so there's not a whole lot left to work with without scrapping the bottom of the barrel, I think.
 

Wolfie557

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Yeah I don't think Tom Nook has much going for him anymore, Isabelle or K.K Slider on the other hand....
 
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Yeah, we're really running out of first-party characters.
♪~One of these things is not like the other~♪

And I don't think the argument is we are running out It is that they aren't absurdly popular in every region. (which is still ridiculous)
 
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BluePikmin11

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I mean I'm not deny we have lots of 1st party options, but if we're going by how Sakurai picked his newcomers in Smash 4, then the options are pretty small for Smash DLC. But that's for another argument that I don't want to participate in.
 

EdgeTheLucas

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So while theoretically I agree with you that the roster needs cuts to keep it manageable, I don't think there's a really satisfying solution in terms of which cuts should be made.
That's sort of my point, though, alongside my other train of thought. Let's say the newcomers are all executed as well as we want them to be. This means that, no matter how you feel about whatever cuts transpire, you can always go back to Smash 4 if you wish. Smash 4 would have tons of interesting characters of its own, alongside Smash 5's tons of interesting characters.

People's negative opinions of Smash 5's roster's cuts as a result would be varied in opinion, severity, and intensity, I'll give it that. But it still wouldn't discredit its newcomers or remaining veterans if they're executed good enough as well. And whatever veterans people would miss, they can still go back to Smash 4 because that's still a well-executed game of its own.

Hopefully you understand what I mean now.
 

Wolfie557

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I mean I'm not deny we have lots of 1st party options, but if we're going by how Sakurai picked his newcomers in Smash 4, then the options are pretty small for Smash DLC. But that's for another argument that I don't want to participate in.
How DID he pick them?
cb4.gif

Gotta love it how after Gematsu chorus kids are not really requested for the ballot. Come to think about it, bandwagoning is pretty sad in the end when it stops. :(
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Tom Nook would be sweet! I would give him a giant bag of money to smack people with. His final Smash could be called Crippling Debt, where he takes all of your money and leaves his opponents living in cardboard boxes. He could also use furniture in a similar way to Dr.Wright's AT function. Tosses out a leaf that turns into a piece of furniture that can be pushed, pulled or spun around.

Then, Snake makes his return through one of those boxes. Plz.
 

Wintropy

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Tom Nook would be sweet! I would give him a giant bag of money to smack people with. His final Smash could be called Crippling Debt, where he takes all of your money and leaves his opponents living in cardboard boxes. He could also use furniture in a similar way to Dr.Wright's AT function. Tosses out a leaf that turns into a piece of furniture that can be pushed, pulled or spun around.

Then, Snake makes his return through one of those boxes. Plz.
Anna is his creditor, obvs.

TRIPLE CONFIRMATION!
 

False Sense

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I mean I'm not deny we have lots of 1st party options, but if we're going by how Sakurai picked his newcomers in Smash 4, then the options are pretty small for Smash DLC. But that's for another argument that I don't want to participate in.
A process that he has already shown not to adhere to when it comes to DLC.

Things change.
 

BluePikmin11

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How DID he pick them?
View attachment 75434
Gotta love it how after Gematsu chorus kids are not really requested for the ballot. Come to think about it, bandwagoning is pretty sad in the end when it stops. :(
Considering that RH is a bigger franchise than Golden Sun in terms of sales, it's not surprising that he was planning them into the game.

A process that he has already shown not to adhere to when it comes to DLC.
I don't think that should be kept as gospel until he officially says that he's developing ballot characters now.
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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It's not THAT hard to come up with something for Tom Nook. I actually have fun coming up with interesting movesets for characters few talk about.

Tom Nook, Professor E.Gadd...there are some interesting ideas out there.
 

Wolfie557

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Is KOS-MOS 1st or 3rd party? Would be a great character imo, but 97.7% sure it will never ever ever happen.
 

Lyngstud

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Based on PushDustIn's research K. Rool is the most wanted in Japan and is followed by Wolf, Bandana Dee, and Inkling
http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/14/roundtable-perception-of-japanese-dlc/
Yeah, I saw that one, but from the translation of the Japanese forums, I got the impression that it wasn't until K. Rool became a thing in the US that he was requested in Japan. I just don't know if he has widespread support among Japanese consumers, or if it's just among the Smash community due to there being some good ideas for movesets, as well as demand for another heavyweight rep and whatnot. I can't be bothered to look through the whole thing again at the moment, so again, do correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, here is the link: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/ (EDIT: Wrong link, I'll have a look to see if I can find the right one)

I just don't see any hype for him at all around these parts.
 
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