DK Tactical Discussion: Official "Ask Strong Bad Stuff.. About Stuff" thread

[leelue]

Anybody have any experience with using DA to edgeguard? Like, DA-ing off the ledge and DJ aerial-ing back to the stage for example? I see potential in it and was wondering if anyone has tried anything similar.

Also DK is cool because he punches peeps and doesn't afraid of anyone.

Eli does this all the time and it works like 200% o

 

[Nausicaa]

Anybody have any experience with using DA to edgeguard? Like, DA-ing off the ledge and DJ aerial-ing back to the stage for example? I see potential in it and was wondering if anyone has tried anything similar.

Should be pretty standard. Just try some things and it will probably come naturally, nothing fancy about it.

Dash Attack > Jab Combo > Dash Attack > Down Throw > Dash Attack (off-stage) > Nair...
That crap is hilarious, and surprisingly functional. It's just like anything. Screw around more, and watch for when you do stuff. More importantly, this means you need to learn when to NOT do stuff. DA off stage, assess the situation, often just jumping back on the stage to reset your edge-guarding position will be your best option, since it's really not too difficult to avoid things like Nair/UpB after getting hit with DK's rolling.

 

[Strong Badam]

Dash Attack is a really poor option in neutral. It's good for rolling off platforms and setting up position for edgeguarding (I do dash attack off -> dj nair a lot), but otherwise I use it sparingly in singles.

 

[Planet Piss]

Dash Attack is a really poor option in neutral. It's good for rolling off platforms and setting up position for edgeguarding (I do dash attack off -> dj nair a lot), but otherwise I use it sparingly in singles.

I find that it's a good idea if you can hit them with the final frames, assuming they are already in the air, because since the move is almost over, they are successfully popped up just a tiny bit and you can do monkey things with them at this point now that the move has ended. I only like to edge-cancel the forward-sending, initial frames because it's an amazing nair/fair setup, as they are offstage and DI is futile.

Who else loves late utilt? He backhands the ground with surprising reach and since the move is basically over at this point, powerful follow-ups are easy. Pivot late utilt into punch/fair 2gud

 

[Nausicaa]

I spam Jiggs Dash-Attack. If grounded (or will be) and the opponent is in the air thinking they're safe from aerials/etc, and you can hit them if you cover significant ground with a solid hard hit-box... Dash-Attack is where it's at, and the same applies to DK.

 

[ELI-mination]

There comes a time when you play new people that you realize you can't spam the same things against them that you spammed against other people.

 

[Nausicaa]

Unless it's grab.
Everyone can always spam grab. <3

 

[Scarlet Bean]

Spam this

 

[SpiderMad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78svSrkt7IQ

 

[SpiderMad]

What kind of Throw things should I be doing on Sonic/Peach/Zelda/Bowser?

 

[Nausicaa]

A few big hits to get good positioning/them off stage.
Damage from combos is meh when you can get free damage AND potential kills by ending combos a certain way with a certain purpose.

 

[Amazerommu]

IMO

Smooth Criminal

AS OLD AS THIS IS! I LITERALLY just died! Me and my friend do stuff like this all the time (and we're usually not even playing team matches... free-for-all bleh!)

I love his cargo kongos... combos... And I definitely love CGing the HOLY **** outta space animals. ZTD's were never so easy as they are w/ DK against spacies. They can try to DI out of it... but you just grab 'em again and give 'em that Juggernaut "Oh ya can't run!" (This)

 

[Planet Piss]

What kind of Throw things should I be doing on Sonic/Peach/Zelda/Bowser?

While it depends a lot on playstyle, a good mix of guaranteed strategies and mix-ups are a good plan. Have a default combo game of cargo uthrow uair and be wary of platforms. DK has a smiilar platform game to Falcon and can do plenty of follow-ups with his dair of uair provided that you are patient and don't try to hit them before they hit the ground.

That said, and against floatier characters (anyone who isn't a spacie pretty much), you can pull off forward/back cargo throws on which your foe DIs up, the opposite direction, or not at all, from which point you can combo with nair and a handful of other moves. At first, though, it's best to keep it simple with uairs and nairs until you figure out the flow of his moveset.

DK is a character with a ton of multilateral combo potential in that he doesn't just need to uair constantly like he did in Melee. Exanple: Cargo fthrow -> low nair -> utiltx2 -> uair up platforms -> dair onto platform -> reverse dair/falling uair after tech->usmash/fair/GP. This is more or less a guaranteed death combo for Sonic and Bowser. If, however, the foe is constantly trying to DI offstage, nair is the best option, because it forces them to choose between flying offstage and potentially dying outright, or suffering bad combo DI and getting killed with a GP or fair. Here's another example that works on most characters:
Cargo uthrow ->autocancel uairx2 ->nair (until sufficient) ->GP/fair. DK's nair sets up for his Giant Punch so well that opponents are often scared of it and will DI way offstage which is a win/win situation for DK. GP is the optimal combo finisher in almost every situation, but where fair will do, GP can be saved for later to get earlier kills on another stock.

As far as super-floaties go, they kind of expose DK. Most of them can blast out of seemingly every grab combo you can get on them so it's best to go for lots of pummels and uairs for guaranteed damage. Cargo uthrow (from the ground) leads to uair kills on floaties a lot of the time so be sure not to let Peach take you to Dreamland or GHZ where she can live for hours while you get edgeguarded and camped out repeatedly.

Just remember that after your opponent has begun to DI a certain way out of cargo uthrow, a f/bthrow to the center of the stage almost guarantees the amount of damage it will take to kill with GP. Guarantees are nice and all but the occasional 0-death comes much more easily with good mix-ups.

Bonus notes:
Jab Jab extends a lot of combos in a pinch
Turn-around utilt hits a surprising distance behind him and the opponent can't reliably DI far enough away to avoid a follow through in many circumstances
DK can combo far offstage with dash attack; cargo u/bthrow lead(s) into it all the time. You can completely bone so many characters at low percentages and the heavier foes can die to a fair. Keep in mind that it gives DK a slight boost in mobility as well. This will basically always give you an outright kill on small stages like Yoshi's or WW.
GP kills super early and it doesn't need to be charged all the way to kill.
DK can combo down as well as up and forward/back. Cargo throws lead to dair on Sheiks and Marths which help keep them well within your grasp.

 

[SpiderMad]

As far as super-floaties go, they kind of expose DK. Most of them can blast out of seemingly every grab combo you can get on them so it's best to go for lots of pummels and uairs for guaranteed damage. Cargo uthrow (from the ground) leads to uair kills on floaties a lot of the time so be sure not to let Peach take you to Dreamland or GHZ where she can live for hours while you get edgeguarded and camped out repeatedly..

Doesn't he have some guaranteed D-throw stuff on Puff?

 

[Planet Piss]

Maybe dthrow dtilt or dash attack. I think fthrow nair might be guaranteed. DK absolutely mauls puff though.

 

[| Kailex |]

Just wanted to note out that DK can jump out earlier out of his dash attack since 2.6 came out. So by that it means that you can wd, usmash, and grab out of it, an aerial attack is good too.
Just time it well

 

[Blue Doc]

I use this character with relative success. Ask me questions about how to do things or beat broken characters. =)

Where should you apply DK's down B?

 

[Oracle]

when they commit to shield or some other defensive option like roll or spotdodge. you can sort of use it to tech chase or punish missed techs but its harder to time that way

 

[Strong Badam]

I usually use Down-B as a techchase. Rarely for other things.

 

[standardtoaster]

when is dsmash used

 

[Strong Badam]

Dsmash is used if you want to use an attack and then immediately feel like you could have done other things that would have been better.

 

[SpiderMad]

CC d-smash spam to make them come and finish off their last stock

 

[MVP]

DK has been my second for a long time. But last week i've switched him to my full main now!

if Dk has a stock lead then it's really scary. i love to cargo-suicide their last stock if i'm at a high percentage (or if i wanna tick them off lol)

 

[Oracle]

Dsmash is most useful when you need a reason to yell THE TWIN HAMMERS OF AFRICA

 

[Gubob]

Dsmash is used if you want to use an attack and then immediately feel like you could have done other things that would have been better.

This reeks of truth.

 

[SpiderMad]

Ness, Sheik, Pit (and probly ROB) with their down throws make the MU feel like crap. Unless I learn some technology that works on them or how to escape Ness's follow-ups I've given up on him for certain MUs. Might explore the Sheik one some more though.

I also don't know how to apply Up-b OOS to my game, the after-state vulnerability makes me wonder if it's worth it

 

[HMWii22]

I'd like to know if anybody knows any good ways to use...

• cargo downthrow (I've gotten cheesy kills at low % by following it up with double jump -> dair spike, it throws their DI off because they expect cargo fthrow, but this is dumb obviously)
• downsmash (always feels like another move would be a better choice)
• side B (again I've gotten random off-stage spike kills with it but not much else, any use for it on-stage?)

 

[| Kailex |]

Side-b does some good sheild damage, use it whenever an opponents sheild is low. Dont use it too much though

 

[Juker]

Hello, does anyone have an image of the hitboxes on DK's standing grab? Couldn't find it. Thank you.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So exactly what is the purpose of the small hitbox attached to his hip on the fully charged giant punch? Here is all the information that I have on it, in case someone isn't aware of it. In brawl box the hitbox size is exactly 0.82 in size, and for comparison the other hitboxes that cover his arm and hand are 4 and 5.5 respectively. It also follows the same damage formula the other 2 hitboxes have, which for the first frame is 28%, while the rest of the hit duration it does 30%. As far as I can tell, this hitbox didn't exist in melee, and its existed since at least 2.5, maybe as far back as 2.1.

I'm not trying to make this a big deal, just trying to understand the move better, so don't freak out or anything lol. So anyone care to enlighten me?

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

In the 3.0 changelog, it states his Grounded Dash Attack jump cancel was removed, however in my copy of 3.0, I can still UpSmash/Up+B/Grab out of it similar to Ike's Side+B. Is my copy just strange that it's missing this nerf? Or is it actually not gone?

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm jump cancelling towards the end of the animation, being clear so it doesn't sounded like I'm actually sliding like an Ike Side+B.

 

[Returnofthemac]

What are Dk's worst match ups? Im looking for a secondary to cover any match ups that might be bad for him.

 

[Strong Badam]

his worst ones are most likely zss and falco
he's got some other tough ones (g&w, mario, samus, snake, diddy, some others) but nothing that's unmanageable i don't think, at least atm. fox is a losing MU too. i think sheik and peach are evenish.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Falco, really he is basically dead with 1 grab (ok, depends a bit on the platforms but DK's punishes are heavy). Since you onviously know more about DK, why is the Falco MU so bad (just because of the lasers??) I agree with ZSS though.

 

[MVP]

his worst ones are most likely zss and falco
he's got some other tough ones (g&w, mario, samus, snake, diddy, some others) but nothing that's unmanageable i don't think, at least atm. fox is a losing MU too. i think sheik and peach are evenish.

any advice against snake and shiek? took third at a tourny cause i couldn't beat'em. I counterpicked snake with mario and won. but i wish i could win these MU with DK

 

[Returnofthemac]

So im going to my first tournament tomorrow but I don't know what stages to ban/counterpick and such. Any glaring terrible or great stages for DK?

 

[Strong Badam]

Falco, really he is basically dead with 1 grab (ok, depends a bit on the platforms but DK's punishes are heavy). Since you onviously know more about DK, why is the Falco MU so bad (just because of the lasers??) I agree with ZSS though.

he kills you with 1 hit and it doesn't need to be a grab and he beats you in the neutral game.

@ Returnofthemac I avoid any stage with "Yoshi" in its name and generally don't mind the rest.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

ok thx :D Doesn't even DI help against that?

 

[Renji64]

Is Dk's Side B Good for edgeguarding? I spiked some people with it before but i seem to miss it alot.

 

[Planet Piss]

Is Dk's Side B Good for edgeguarding? I spiked some people with it before but i seem to miss it alot.

Yes it is. Made with 100% real cheese too.
It goes pretty dang low and stops DK's momentum so you can use it as a combo finisher option after fullhop attacks as well. The trajectory is also invaluable against certain recoveries.