DK Tactical Discussion: Official "Ask Strong Bad Stuff.. About Stuff" thread

[MVP]

i've been playing melee for a few days now and it significantly easier to up-air chain in melee than PM

 

[Bstuk]

Can anyone explain how grab releases on cargo (fthrow) work? Like can your opponent chose which way they get released, or is it all randomized?

 

[standardtoaster]

from what I've used DK, holding them in fthrow will cause them to break out in front of you, but if you turn around at all, they'll break out behind you.

 

[Ripple]

got 4th at a tournament yesterday.

lost to Rat (a dev) and tink.

 

[Attila the Hun]

got 4th at a tournament yesterday.

lost to Rat (a dev) and tink.

Only 4th? C'mon Ripppplllleeeeee.

I got 2nd at a monthly recently... it was pretty much everybody else's first time playing the game... awh.

Who'd they use?

 

[Ripple]

well, tink used fox/marth/sheik

rat uses wolf.

it's my 3rd time ever playing.

and the chicago guys basically play that instead of melee now so they had a huge advantage.

 

[Attila the Hun]

well, tink used fox/marth/sheik

rat uses wolf.

it's my 3rd time ever playing.

and the chicago guys basically play that instead of melee now so they had a huge advantage.

It was sarcasm, haha.

DK is the new IC's, so you'll get 'em next timee. <3

 

[Oro?!]

Strong Bad cash battle me at SCSYN.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Strong Bad cash battle me at SCSYN.

Lol cash battle

 

[Mr.Pickle]

So is there a specific reason why dk's giant punch does 32% on the hitbox that starts behind him, where as the actual fist part of the move does 30%?

For frame of reference, that same hitbox does 18% both in melee and brawl.

 

[Attila the Hun]

So is there a specific reason why dk's giant punch does 32% on the hitbox that starts behind him, where as the actual fist part of the move does 30%?

For frame of reference, that same hitbox does 18% both in melee and brawl.

Probably the same reason why any wind above 6 (I think, 9 being absolutely ****-tier) is stronger than a full charge. #smashlogic

 

[Mr.Pickle]

From my studies I've made today about that move, I'll have to say that what you just said is most likely false. I've found that both in melee and brawl, after 9 swings that the hitbox that covers his entire arm does 28%, and that the fully charge one is the only one that the hitbox behind him, the moment where he is initiating the punch, does only 18%.

Pm giant punch is different in that, even the lower swings like eight and nine, the hitbox behind him does 2% more than if you hit with the fist. At no point did I get a punch with a lower swing count to exceed the fully charged one in the 3 forms of smash I tested it in (melee, brawl, and pm). My methods might not be 100% accurate, so don't regard what I've said as complete fact until someone else that is credible can confirm this.

That being said, I think a legitimate reason still needs to be given for this odd trait that only the pm version has, because it seems a little inconsistent

 

[Attila the Hun]

From my studies I've made today about that move, I'll have to say that what you just said is most likely false. I've found that both in melee and brawl, after 9 swings that the hitbox that covers his entire arm does 28%, and that the fully charge one is the only one that the hitbox behind him, the moment where he is initiating the punch, does only 18%.

Pm giant punch is different in that, even the lower swings like eight and nine, the hitbox behind him does 2% more than if you hit with the fist. At no point did I get a punch with a lower swing count to exceed the fully charged one in the 3 forms of smash I tested it in (melee, brawl, and pm). My methods might not be 100% accurate, so don't regard what I've said as complete fact until someone else that is credible can confirm this.

That being said, I think a legitimate reason still needs to be given for this odd trait that only the pm version has, because it seems a little inconsistent

Knockback-wise, dude. Is kinda weird, though.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Knockback huh, ok well leaving that matter aside, the pm giant punch still needs to be looked at.

 

[Strong Badam]

the shoulder hit being more powerful than the punch hit is not inconsistent with other games. however, in other games, you wind up through 9 winds with the shoulder hit being more powerful than the regular hit and then when you get to 10 the shoulder hit is suddenly super weak. we found this inconsistent with the move's concept; exhaust time you could be spending gaining better positioning/defending yourself by charging up an attack and be rewarded linearly, with the most powerful hit being a fully charged one. this was fixed in PM.
note that he has always had a shoulder hit, even in uncharged punches.

oro: aight

 

[Stevo]

Strong Bad

why did I drop combos like a failure?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZzQ9CcoXMdQ#t=438s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZzQ9CcoXMdQ#t=137s


But a more serious question, is the PMBR happy with the physics of DK's up-B currently?

 

[ELI-mination]

I am.

ajwoiefnmawiefjna;iowjmfwe

 

[Stevo]

I think my only wish would be when you use it grounded that when you slide off the platform you don't hover so much and fall down quicker like in melee. Sort of like how Bowser does it. I miss that from melee. Otherwise, the increase in the distance it covers actually is really nice, especially with DK's weight.

 

[Ripple]

I don't like his aerial up-b mobility. (weaving ability)

it needs to be a little higher.

the distance is fine though

 

[Stevo]

I don't like his aerial up-b mobility. (weaving ability)

that definitely threw me off at first

 

[Mr.Pickle]

the shoulder hit being more powerful than the punch hit is not inconsistent with other games. however, in other games, you wind up through 9 winds with the shoulder hit being more powerful than the regular hit and then when you get to 10 the shoulder hit is suddenly super weak. we found this inconsistent with the move's concept; exhaust time you could be spending gaining better positioning/defending yourself by charging up an attack and be rewarded linearly, with the most powerful hit being a fully charged one. this was fixed in PM.
note that he has always had a shoulder hit, even in uncharged punches.

To me it still remains inconsistent, because if you acknowledge that the shoulder hit being more powerful than the punch on the lower leveled swings didn't make sense design wise, then the fully charged one having that said mechanic would make even less sense, and especially so because the lowered leveled ones got weaker, rightfully so, and had their shoulder hitbox toned down, while the fully charged one got a buff. It completely defeats the purpose of the hitbox, which was to encourage you to space better, but it also made sure you got a little out of it, not too much but just enough. It just feels like too much of a reward when there isn't much risk to the move anymore, considering its so massive and doesn't put you in special fall anymore.

Don't get me wrong though, this isn't a "blargh dk broke, nerf pleaze!" post, this is just my $.02 on the move, so I'd like to know how everyone else feels about it.

 

[Strong Badam]

attention dk players
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/370682558?t=2h21m10s
that is all

 

[Zef]

what do i do to floaties? i have every matchup vs fastfallers down well

 

[Strong Badam]

Fighting floaties requires a lot of patience. DDing, bairing, and picking your fights well. I also like Dthrow a lot against floatier characters since you get a free nair out of it if they DI in and a Down-B if they DI away.

 

[POOB]

hey strong bad, since you put so much emphasis on patience, which i don't blame you because i think it is one of those things that completely separates good players from great players, do yo uhave any tips on how to keep your patience? If I'm facing a defensive player/character i try my best to be patient but all i can focus on is being patient, and not the actual match. lol. Then i end up getting impatient because my patience doesn't show instant positive results

 

[Strong Badam]

Patience is a time-learned skill, applicable to every character, some more than others. Like anything else such as Wavedashing and L-canceling, you're not going to see immediate results when you try to apply it, in fact it'll seem like you're doing much worse. Eventually it'll become a part of your sub-conscious instead of something you need to focus on. It helps to play defensive players a lot, you'll get your frustration out of the way in friendlies rather than in tournament where it really matters. I've not truly mastered it myself but I'm much, much better at it than I used to be and I perform a lot better because of it.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Play Brawl vs. floaties. xD Bair, ftilt, dtilt. Nair's pretty bork. No real point in cargo uthrow stuff.

 

[leelue]

Is it true that the Leelue DK matchup is always 100:0?

I don't like his aerial up-b mobility. (weaving ability)

it needs to be a little higher.

the distance is fine though

I disagree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clTQ3g2jL_4

Stupid shoulder hit

 

[SpiderMad]

What's your guy's button method for doing the Cargo hold but then jumping and then throwing up and doing an aerial (like a Dair even) and when do you go for that and not just Cargo up-throw on the ground and go for up-airs or what have you.

Like explain ALL the situations of what ya'll do based on %,character, DI all that or link me Melee DK posts that could tell me all that. I also haven't seen the first thing I described in Melee all that much for whatever reason (the jumping with the cargo and then throwing up/forward to something like dair)

 

[Strong Badam]

well
won a tournament w/ 100% dk

feels good

 

[SpiderMad]

Answer my questions you monkey gorrilla lovers

 

[Attila the Hun]

Answer my questions you monkey gorrilla lovers

I use *NO* tap jump (easier to do uairs if I feel like doing up+A rather than C stick), X grab, Y jump, smash stick.

Grab with X, press forward on movement stick (joystick) to put them in cargo hold, up on smash stick to toss upwards, Y jump+direction (to follow DI) and smash stick up to Uair.

At low %'s I stay to the ground because you can follow them with a single jump, and it's easier to chain uairs this way (I still suck at it but whatevs). At high %'s I jump using Y after initiating the cargo hold, then smash stick up to throw, then Y and smash stick/A+direction to either Fair or Dair. Normally if I want to Fair, I jump and do a backwards cargo toss. It sets them in a perfect position if they aren't expecting the DI. If you were wondering, the backwards cargo toss in the air turns you around in the direction you threw them like with Marth's Bair. If that wasn't obvious already, I'm basically just spouting off whatever is on my mind.

If they expect it though, you obviously have to read it. Sometimes even standing forward cargo throw can get you a Fair. At low %'s you can do a jump cargo uthrow/fthrow/bthrow->Dair if you feel you can read their techs or lack thereof afterwards (and if they aren't too light or fastfally). Side B can work, too.

Against lights, it's best to do cargo uthrows to uair at really low %, then when they start getting up there you can do Dthrow->follow DI with Nair. I usually try to grab less against lights, especially when at high %, 'cuz it's way harder to follow up.

Against spacies, standing cargo uthrow CG them. It's not even hard to do, and even if they just DI to the edge of the stage, you still get Punch/fsmash/ftilt/dtilt right at the ledge, which usually spells bad news for them anyway. Also, if you're getting close to the ledge and they don't expect to DI down, you can reset their position:

Grab>cargo>jump>cargo throw backwards>fastfall>dash regrab or JC regrab (I think JC works, I just suck at it). This puts you closer to the middle of the stage, and depending on % gives you the regrab. I forget if it works at 0% or not. I wish I could do videos, but I'm technologically impaired. These should be easy-ish to understand, though.

Also, if you do the jumping backwards cargo throw (or even standing backwards cargo throw) at really low % on spacies, you can get a free downB if they miss the tech, or a free dtilt. Also, missing a tech on downB normally means two or 3 more hits into dash attack and a follow up sometimes. I'm really bad at doing uair into regrab at really low %'s (a.k.a. 0), so I normally just CG or wait till around 30 or 40 and do an L-cancelled fastfall uair on the way into the ground so they don't go as high. Hopefully that made any sense.

Against middle weights and heavy floaties, I just play by ear and do whatever my gut tells me to do at the time. Normally it's uairs to rack of damage, and fairs/Punch to kill.

It's also way easier to use Punch if you do a cargo uthrow while jumping then follow the DI with Punch (either keep it forward or b reverse it).

Sorry there are no real specific %'s, but that's the best I can think of. Maybe Strong Bad or the other DK's (Ripple? ... anyone...?) could correct me in any way?

Also Strong Bad, are there going to be videos of said tourney? And did you fight any spacies and actually chain grab them? I find most DK's I watch don't do that. :I But I'm also way worse at the game, so I guess I can't totally point fingers. xD

 

[Strong Badam]

I chaingrab the **** out of spacies.

 

[Attila the Hun]

I hasn't seen it.

But prolly because it's harder to CG good players, lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

Won another tournament.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Any tips with dealing with the PK kids, particularly Ness one of my practice buddies has started to use him to great effect against me. His PK Fire can be pretty tough to avoid at times, maybe I just need more practice with the match up.

 

[Strong Badam]

You need to become proficient at SDIing if you want to fight Ness with any success. Powershielding doesn't hurt either. But overall I think DK manhandles both Mother kids. Anything else in the MU you're struggling with?

 

[Wrestlemania]

No if I can stay out of his fire I can toss him around pretty well, Ill work at getting better at SDI and hopefully I can get back to beating him up with my big ape fists. Thanks!

 

[MegaGuy]

Anybody have any experience with using DA to edgeguard? Like, DA-ing off the ledge and DJ aerial-ing back to the stage for example? I see potential in it and was wondering if anyone has tried anything similar.

Also DK is cool because he punches peeps and doesn't afraid of anyone.

 

[Emg3]

Strong Bad do you use DK's side B and are there any combos into side B?