Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[Arymle Roseanne]

All this information on how well the characters were handled honestly makes me believe that Sakurai and the devs don't hate the Dkc series like so many people have claimed which are just exaggerations, indifference maybe but they actually hated the series we wouldn't have gotten anyone aside from DK himself meaning Dixie wouldn't have even considered like she was in Brawl.

I also believe it's the whole close relationship with Mario(remember Nintendo themselves didn't do much with DK aside from being Mario's earliest rival, RareWare and Retro Studios are the ones who made history of his own caliber) so that might relate to how the Dkc series is handled so the circumstances may not exactly be in our favor but the situation could be much worse.

Interesting fact, all 3 Dkc reps reference Dixie in some way. Dk's up b move looks similar to her trademark spinning, Diddy's pink costume and Rool's up b move referencing her game where he did that for his mobility.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I also believe it's the whole close relationship with Mario(remember Nintendo themselves didn't do much with DK aside from being Mario's earliest rival, RareWare and Retro Studios are the ones who made history of his own caliber) so that might relate to how the Dkc series is handled so the circumstances may not exactly be in our favor but the situation could be much worse.

I've actually always wondered if Sakurai considers Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Wario to all sort of be subsets of a single series. It kind of makes sense with the newcomers we've gotten in each game:
Smash 64 - Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, clone Luigi
Melee - Peach, Bowser, clone Dr. Mario
Brawl - Diddy Kong, Wario
Smash 4 - Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr.
Ultimate - King K. Rool, Piranha Plant, clone Daisy

Looking at it this way, 64 got three uniques and the others all got two, with a few clones placed around. And 64 is back when some of the current franchises in Smash didn't even exist and the whole thing was untested, so putting more heavy-hitters in made perfect sense. Sakurai even once mentioned that part of the reason Wario didn't get into Melee is because he was worried people would complain about too many Mario characters. It also potentially helps explain why we haven't seen characters like Ashley or Kamek.

 

[StormC]

All this information on how well the characters were handled honestly makes me believe that Sakurai and the devs don't hate the Dkc series like so many people have claimed which are just exaggerations, indifference maybe but they actually hated the series we wouldn't have gotten anyone aside from DK himself meaning Dixie wouldn't have even considered like she was in Brawl.

I also believe it's the whole close relationship with Mario(remember Nintendo themselves didn't do much with DK aside from being Mario's earliest rival, RareWare and Retro Studios are the ones who made history of his own caliber) so that might relate to how the Dkc series is handled so the circumstances may not exactly be in our favor but the situation could be much worse.

Interesting fact, all 3 Dkc reps reference Dixie in some way. Dk's up b move looks similar to her trademark spinning, Diddy's pink costume and Rool's up b move referencing her game where he did that for his mobility.

I agree that it's more indifference. I doubt Sakurai "hates" any of the characters or content in Smash or things related to them. He's a professional game designer who sees value in these things and that's why he implements them. But it's difficult to look at all the jungle stages and only getting an Assist Trophy after three games as anything but evidence that he doesn't regard the series as particularly special. It's not a series that he had a hand in like Kirby or Kid Icarus, it's not a series he has an obvious passion for like Fire Emblem, and it's not an S tier series like Mario/Pokemon/Zelda that warrants an obvious red carpet treatment. So one feels like he never really knows what to do with it.

I'm eternally grateful for his choice to add K. Rool, but outside of his inclusion, it still feels like he's not giving the series its due, and it's unfortunate. DK lost not one, but two stages going into Ultimate and got nothing new in its stead. Dixie DLC with a Tropical Freeze stage would go a long way to remedy this, but such a thing remains to be seen.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I agree that it's more indifference. I doubt Sakurai "hates" any of the characters or content in Smash or things related to them. He's a professional game designer who sees value in these things and that's why he implements them. But it's difficult to look at all the jungle stages and only getting an Assist Trophy after three games as anything but evidence that he doesn't regard the series as particularly special. It's not a series that he had a hand in like Kirby or Kid Icarus, it's not a series he has an obvious passion for like Fire Emblem, and it's not an S tier series like Mario/Pokemon/Zelda that warrants an obvious red carpet treatment. So one feels like he never really knows what to do with it.

I'm eternally grateful for his choice to add K. Rool, but outside of his inclusion, it still feels like he's not giving the series its due, and it's unfortunate. DK lost not one, but two stages going into Ultimate and got nothing new in its stead. Dixie DLC with a Tropical Freeze stage would go a long way to remedy this, but such a thing remains to be seen.

I think the lack of DK content in Smash over the years isn't Sakurai's fault, but Nintendo's fault. They never acknowledge Rare's work at all and barely mention's the old DKC games when ever talking about the DK games. K. Rool not being the villain in a mainline DKC game for 19 years and disappearing completely for 10 years is kind of proof of that. Then we also have Krystal who was also created by Rare who hasn't been in Star Fox game since Command which was 12 years ago. She like K. Rool, has only been reduced to making trophy cameos in Smash for the past decade.

Edit: Clearly Nintendo has something against Rare and it's original characters that they own like K. Rool and Krystal. I think they even told Sakurai throughout the years not to add too much DKC content in Smash because of this.

 

[StormC]

I think the lack of DK content in Smash over the years I think isn't Sakurai's fault, but Nintendo's fault. They never acknowledge Rare's work at all and barely mention's the old DKC games when ever talking about the DK games. K. Rool not being the villain in a mainline DKC game for 19 years and disappearing completely for 10 years is kind of proof of that. Then we also have Krystal who was also created by Rare who hasn't been in Star Fox game since Command which was 12 years ago. She like K. Rool, has only been making trophy cameos in Smash for the past decade.

Sakurai is no stranger to deep cuts. He added Mother Brain as an AT despite her last appearance in the Metroid series being Zero Mission in 2004. He put in NPCs from EarthBound and MOTHER 3 in Ness and Lucas' Final Smash, with brand new 3D models. There's a Castlevania stage brimming with content and easter eggs from the series, despite it being more-or-less inactive for a while. So he definitely isn't beholden to just doing the bare minimum.

Not that he's never done it before, putting Kritters in Smash Run was pretty huge, but usually it just feels surface deep compared to other series.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Sakurai is no stranger to deep cuts. He added Mother Brain as an AT despite her last appearance in the Metroid series being Zero Mission in 2004. He put in NPCs from EarthBound and MOTHER 3 in Ness and Lucas' Final Smash, with brand new 3D models. There's a Castlevania stage brimming with content and easter eggs from the series, despite it being more-or-less inactive for a while. So he definitely isn't beholden to just doing the bare minimum.

Not that he's never done it before, putting Kritters in Smash Run was pretty huge, but usually it just feels surface deep compared to other series.

I think it's been Nintendo telling Sakurai not to add too much DKC content in Smash throughout the years. They clearly have something against Rare and it's original characters that they own like K. Rool and Krystal.

 

[StormC]

I think it's been Nintendo telling Sakurai not to add too much DKC content in Smash throughout the years. They clearly have something against Rare and it's original characters that they own like K. Rool and Krystal.

I doubt it. Why else would Kritters be in Smash Run? Why would Diddy be in Brawl? Nintendo doesn't gain anything from hating characters they own and from what we know about Smash development, Sakurai is generally allowed to do what he pleases with Nintendo's IPs (outside of ones like Pokemon where everything has to be vetted by TPC). Hell, they made Krystal a leading cast member of the Star Fox series (until a reboot that focused squarely on SF64 throwbacks). Diddy and Dixie showed up in sports spin-offs after the buyout... there isn't much to support the viewpoint that Nintendo, as a company, is actively working to undermine Rare's legacy. They even hired the former Rare composer to work on Tropical Freeze.

While I definitely believe certain people at Nintendo are not overly fond of the Rare content, namely Miyamoto, Tanabe, and formerly Koizumi (who went from "DK doesn't need anything but DK and the banana" to overseeing a Mario game that had streets named after Rare characters), they don't speak for the company as a whole and have little influence on how Sakurai chooses to represent the company's IPs in Smash. Miyamoto literally asked Sakurai to put Pac-Man in Brawl and Sakurai decided against it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I agree that it's more indifference. I doubt Sakurai "hates" any of the characters or content in Smash or things related to them. He's a professional game designer who sees value in these things and that's why he implements them. But it's difficult to look at all the jungle stages and only getting an Assist Trophy after three games as anything but evidence that he doesn't regard the series as particularly special. It's not a series that he had a hand in like Kirby or Kid Icarus, it's not a series he has an obvious passion for like Fire Emblem, and it's not an S tier series like Mario/Pokemon/Zelda that warrants an obvious red carpet treatment. So one feels like he never really knows what to do with it.

I'm eternally grateful for his choice to add K. Rool, but outside of his inclusion, it still feels like he's not giving the series its due, and it's unfortunate. DK lost not one, but two stages going into Ultimate and got nothing new in its stead. Dixie DLC with a Tropical Freeze stage would go a long way to remedy this, but such a thing remains to be seen.

Zelda? Red carpet treatment? Not since Melee really...

And I think that’s where things go wrong already. If The Legend of ZELDA struggles to get new characters in, despite being a S Tier franchise, what hope is there really for lesser Nintendo franchises? DKC included, even if we’re the next huge thing after Zelda. What hope is there for a new character from Kirby for example?

It seems only new franchises of Nintendo might be considered. Outside of the obvious 3rd party **** storm we’re getting for DLC of course. Splatoon did well and obviously warrants it’s playable character(s), ARMS will get their chance next time... but not even Xenoblade could get Elma in for example. Golden Sun got a massive cry out for Isaac, and he was denied.

I think Smash reached the point where each newcomer needs to be phenomenal, highly popular and relevant, or simply from a 3rd party franchise to make it in. I highly doubt there will be many more additions to excistant franchises at this point. Fire Emblem might be even denied a next character. Pokémon Generation 8 will even be skipped I think. Mario won’t ever get Toad, Kirby won’t get Bandana Dee, Zelda won’t get Impa or Skull Kid and we most likely won’t get Dixie.

This is why am extra grateful for King K.Rool. Sure his reveal made my other wants skyrocket immediately, but I think I might not be appreciative enough to my number one most wanted...

 

[StormC]

Zelda? Red carpet treatment? Not since Melee really...

And I think that’s where things go wrong already. If The Legend of ZELDA struggles to get new characters in, despite being a S Tier franchise, what hope is there really for lesser Nintendo franchises? DKC included, even if we’re the next huge thing after Zelda. What hope is there for a new character from Kirby for example?

Zelda has a ton of stages, items, and Assist Trophies, with its three core characters on the roster. Ultimate has every Zelda stage from all four previous games and a new one from Breath Of The Wild. It's hardly neglected. The worst you could say about it is Falcondorf is a thing. The series struggles to add new characters because there aren't many notable ones to add. Smash rarely adds one-off characters unless they're a leading protagonist, so Zelda doesn't have much to offer for newcomers.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I doubt it. Why else would Kritters be in Smash Run? Why would Diddy be in Brawl? Nintendo doesn't gain anything from hating characters they own and from what we know about Smash development, Sakurai is generally allowed to do what he pleases with Nintendo's IPs (outside of ones like Pokemon where everything has to be vetted by TPC). Hell, they made Krystal a leading cast member of the Star Fox series (until a reboot that focused squarely on SF64 throwbacks). Diddy and Dixie showed up in sports spin-offs after the buyout... there isn't much to support the viewpoint that Nintendo, as a company, is actively working to undermine Rare's legacy. They even hired the former Rare composer to work on Tropical Freeze.

While I definitely believe certain people at Nintendo are not overly fond of the Rare content, namely Miyamoto, Tanabe, and formerly Koizumi (who went from "DK doesn't need anything but DK and the banana" to overseeing a Mario game that had streets named after Rare characters), they don't speak for the company as a whole and have little influence on how Sakurai chooses to represent the company's IPs in Smash. Miyamoto literally asked Sakurai to put Pac-Man in Brawl and Sakurai decided against it.

I think Diddy, Dixie, and the other Kongs get more time in the spotlight because they are Kongs and are closer related to DK than the Kremlings. Also, why hasn't K. Rool and Krystal haven't been in a game in their series for more then a decade? Does that really show Nintendo cares about them?

 

[StormC]

I think Diddy, Dixie, and the other Kongs get more time in the spotlight because they are Kongs and are closer related to DK than the Kremlings. Also, why hasn't K. Rool and Krystal haven't been in a game in their series for more then a decade? Does that really show Nintendo cares about them?

Star Fox hasn't had a new game period besides Zero which was a deliberate throwback to Star Fox 64. Might as well ask why Panther hasn't shown up.

K. Rool was deliberately left out because Miyamoto and Tanabe wanted a new villain for DKCR and, presumably, TF as well. Those were also the only two DK games in the last decade. Again, they don't speak for the whole company.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zelda has a ton of stages, items, and Assist Trophies, with its three core characters on the roster. Ultimate has every Zelda stage from all four previous games and a new one from Breath Of The Wild. It's hardly neglected. The worst you could say about it is Falcondorf is a thing. The series struggles to add new characters because there aren't many notable ones to add. Smash rarely adds one-off characters unless they're a leading protagonist, so Zelda doesn't have much to offer for newcomers.

Maybe so. It gets it's share of attention, but you would think it warrants a little more for being at the literal top 3 franchises of Nintendo? I mean, DKC would sure benefit from a game made at such a grand scale as Breath of the Wild. I would even celebrate for a DKC game that uses the very BotW-engine alone. Items and Assist Trophies you say? Sure, cool, but those are all from Smash 4 safe for the Moon. We got the Great Plateau Tower as a stage, but nothing else besides that and the Moon is now, safe for a few copy-pasted sword Smash attack for Ganondorf, Young Link returning, and new designs for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. It's not all too much honestly, especially after Smash 4 giving Zelda naught but items, ATs and Skyloft. A character is still heavily warranted.

 

[Marcello691]

Maybe so. It gets it's share of attention, but you would think it warrants a little more for being at the literal top 3 franchises of Nintendo? I mean, DKC would sure benefit from a game made at such a grand scale as Breath of the Wild. I would even celebrate for a DKC game that uses the very BotW-engine alone. Items and Assist Trophies you say? Sure, cool, but those are all from Smash 4 safe for the Moon. We got the Great Plateau Tower as a stage, but nothing else besides that and the Moon is now, safe for a few copy-pasted sword Smash attack for Ganondorf, Young Link returning, and new designs for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. It's not all too much honestly, especially after Smash 4 giving Zelda naught but items, ATs and Skyloft. A character is still heavily warranted.

I don't think there's anything for Legend of Zelda fans to complain about. Even if this time they didn't add to much new content, it still has a great music selection, many returning stages plus a new one, assist trophies and almost too many characters if you consider the only important characters returning in every Zelda game are Link and Zelda. Not only that, but you can clearly see that mario and link are getting the spotlight in smash, I mean even on the cover art you have Mario and link right in the middle.

I guess I still was right about Nintendo not caring for dk that much. If we get dlc Dixie plus a new stage and a new dk game announced next year, then I will change my opinion.

 

[StormC]

Maybe so. It gets it's share of attention, but you would think it warrants a little more for being at the literal top 3 franchises of Nintendo? I mean, DKC would sure benefit from a game made at such a grand scale as Breath of the Wild. I would even celebrate for a DKC game that uses the very BotW-engine alone. Items and Assist Trophies you say? Sure, cool, but those are all from Smash 4 safe for the Moon. We got the Great Plateau Tower as a stage, but nothing else besides that and the Moon is now, safe for a few copy-pasted sword Smash attack for Ganondorf, Young Link returning, and new designs for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf. It's not all too much honestly, especially after Smash 4 giving Zelda naught but items, ATs and Skyloft. A character is still heavily warranted.

Characters rarely get added just because their series "needs" another one, it's because the character itself has merit. If Sakurai adds a Zelda character, it's because that character, specifically, warrants inclusion, not because he wants to pump up the Zelda roster arbitrarily. Outside of a couple of characters like Impa and Ganon, most of them are one-off supporting characters. Adding, say, Midna would be akin to adding Cappy. And you can disagree with that, but it's a philosophy of Sakurai's development that has been pretty consistent across games.

Considering there's only four new stages in the game, Zelda got pretty damn lucky, all things considered.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Dixie isn't seen as a "hype-inducing" newcomer because she's just one of those characters who should've already been a staple. Like you'd never imagine someone getting hyped over Wario or Zelda, right? But at the same time I can't imagine the game without them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I've actually always wondered if Sakurai considers Mario, DK, Yoshi, and Wario to all sort of be subsets of a single series. It kind of makes sense with the newcomers we've gotten in each game:
Smash 64 - Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, clone Luigi
Melee - Peach, Bowser, clone Dr. Mario
Brawl - Diddy Kong, Wario
Smash 4 - Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr.
Ultimate - King K. Rool, Piranha Plant, clone Daisy

Looking at it this way, 64 got three uniques and the others all got two, with a few clones placed around. And 64 is back when some of the current franchises in Smash didn't even exist and the whole thing was untested, so putting more heavy-hitters in made perfect sense. Sakurai even once mentioned that part of the reason Wario didn't get into Melee is because he was worried people would complain about too many Mario characters. It also potentially helps explain why we haven't seen characters like Ashley or Kamek.

That makes sense. Hell, even the KI series has been shown restraint, and that doesn't even have three uniques.

Plus it would be good if King Boo (among others) can eventually get in this way. Loopholes are awesome.

Characters rarely get added just because their series "needs" another one, it's because the character itself has merit. If Sakurai adds a Zelda character, it's because that character, specifically, warrants inclusion, not because he wants to pump up the Zelda roster arbitrarily. Outside of a couple of characters like Impa and Ganon, most of them are one-off supporting characters. Adding, say, Midna would be akin to adding Cappy. And you can disagree with that, but it's a philosophy of Sakurai's development that has been pretty consistent across games.

Considering there's only four new stages in the game, Zelda got pretty damn lucky, all things considered.

Partly that, and more "okay, can I do something interesting with this character or otherwise find a convenient way to include them?". Although enough fan support to convince him to give a second look and consider them also helps, the character in question does need to have done something noteworthy or be memorable in a good way.

 

[Sabertooth]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

Predictably, in the DKC line it's 2, as for OG, my personal fave is 94 on the Game Boy.

 

[StormC]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

DKC2 easily. It’s in my top five games ever and oozes atmosphere and style in a way most 2D platformers don’t. It stars my two favorite Kongs, has the best depiction of K. Rool and the Kremlings, one of the greatest soundtracks in game history, and added a ton of gameplay improvements from the first game.

S Tier
DKC2

A Tier
DKC3

B Tier
DKCTF
DKC

C Tier
DKCR
DKR
DKJC
DKL3

D Tier
DK64
DKKOS
DKL2
DKL
DKJB
DKBB

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

I love Dkc 2 to death, not only it's my favorite Dkc game but also my favorite SNES game. It's one of the many reasons why I love Diddy and Dixie as characters (they're my favorite couple too), the soundtrack is a masterpiece and the levels are so fun and challenging, also the pirate theme was really cool. I never got tired of playing it honestly.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

My favorite DK game is probably Tropical Freeze. The soundtrack, visuals, level design, worlds, graphics are all top notch. I think it's my favorite 2D platformer ever made. It would probably be my FAVORITE game of all time if it had K.Rool/Kremlings, more animal buddies, and more varied bonus rooms.

DKC2 is probably very much right behind it. The atmosphere, soundtrack (which was my favorite DK soundtrack before Tropical Freeze came along), gameplay variety, challenge, collectibles, epic boss fight. All perfection sadly TF edges it out because I feel the levels in TF are a bit more fun and chaotic IMO not to mention the controls of the Retro DKC games feel so perfect to me.

DKC and DKJB (Wii version) are tied for a VERY close 3rd place for me. DKC because of nostalgia (was my 1st videogame afterall) and while I probably have replayed the original DKC more than any other DK game, I can admit the game is a tad basic and limited in level design and gameplay. The bosses in DKC are garbage, the graphics are a bit dated even compared to DKC2 and DKC3 on the same system (I think those games hold up much better visually nowadays even while using basically the same graphics engine), and the level design is very "flat" like their isn't much platforming in a lot of the levels, it's mostly just running on long stretches of ground. Still love the game though. DKJB (Wii version) is a pretty fun arcadey rhythm/momentum based platformer. I think the game overall is pretty underated. Not much more to say about that game than that, honestly I just really enjoy it!

DK64, LOVED as a kid it was one of the few games my mom was interested in watching me play and I remember my mom and sister watching me and cheer me on as a child to complete it. It was the first game I ever fully completed. 102% or whatever it was. While I will always love the game for those nostalgic reasons, the game as a whole has NOT held up well at all to me. In fact the game is kinda boring nowadays. The worlds are much too big for their own good and while ambitious and amazing at the time nowadays it just feels tedious due to all the backtracking, Kong-switching, and slow run speed of all the characters. Yeah their are warp pads but some of them aren't THAT far spread apart and theirs to few of them in each level IMO. The collectibles there is MUCH too many. Some of the challenges in the game are beyond annoying, overly difficult, or just unfair (Beaver Bother, those stupid Beetle Races, the DK arcade game, Jetpac, Diddy's jetpack controls, the slot machine mini-game, etc.), too many golden bananas are aquired through bonus game barrels and less platforming/exploring which feels kinda lazy IMO, the controls of the game aren't that tight.

There's still stuff I LOVE about DK64 but unfortunately most of it doesn't relate to gameplay (the most important part of a videogame). I LOVE the cutscenes/K.Rool's characterization in this game. Rare injected so much personality/charm into this character that it saddens me when people call him a "Bowser knock-off" because this game proved how their characters are totally different from one another. The bosses are all pretty good/fun to me and easily the best part of the experience, the music is great, and I think the graphics are still pretty good looking compared to most other games on the N64/PSone at the time. Oh and I think the multiplayer is okay. Nothing spectacular but nothing horrible either. Oh and a small caveat, I think DK64 shouldn't be played by little little kids because a LOT of the stuff in the game scared the hell out of me as a kid. Like the "GET OUT!!" yell with the sight aiming at you to shoot you down, the spider mini-boss in Fungi Forest, the puffer-fish boss, the angry tomatoes, the big Viking Kremling (forgot the name) that stomps and makes stalagmites fall down on you in Crystal Caverns with that intimidating music, the big Zingers flying towards you in the bee hive while you're tiny, hell even swimming in the sunken ship in Gloomy Galleon use to freak me the hell out as a kid. Maybe I was the only one scared of this **** as a kid but I remember having nightmares at some of that stuff.

DKC3 and Returns are fun fine games but neither of them blew me away that much. They're "okay"

King of Swing and Jungle Climber are pretty boring IMO. Neither game is that fun to play either. They are the only DK games I couldn't finish and I HATE the gameplay and controls of those games.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

Diddy’s Kong Quest has always been my favorite due to the pirate style they used for enemies, the amazing soundtrack, and levels were very appealing and (most) were appropriately paced. Also Diddy and Dixie were a perfect combo, which makes me think even more that Dixie should’ve been in brawl, and especially now.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is what I believe the five DLC slots are:

1. Square-Enix character (Geno, Sora, or Dragon Quest character)
This is the one DLC slot that Vergeben knows about. However, its split as to who it could be. Geno has Sakurai's personal preference. Sora might very well be the most wanted third-party character not yet in Smash Bros. Dragon Quest is the biggest Japanese third-party franchise left without any sort of representation in Smash Bros., and there is an upcoming port of Dragon Quest XI coming out for the Switch.

2. Namco-Bandai character
It seems really odd that that Capcom (Mega Man, Street Fighter), Konami (Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania), Sega (Sonic, Bayonetta), Square-Enix (Cloud, whoever the DLC character is) would all have two series with playable characters in Smash Bros., yet the developer for Ultimate still only has one (Pac-Man). Moreover, many of these companies have their series represented through other content in Ultimate (Virtua Fighter has an Assist Trophy, Monster Hunter has a boss and an Assist Trophy, Bomberman has an Assist Trophy). Aside from Mii costumes, Namco-Bandai has no other significant presence in the game aside from Pac-Man. I think the second Namco-Bandai character will probably be Heihachi or Lloyd. However, its always possible that they go with someone else from Tekken or Tales. It is also possible that someone from Soul Calibur is selected.

3. Banjo-Kazooie
Vergeben has gone on the record to say Minecraft content is coming, though he has not said what it is. Personally, I think we will be getting Minecraft content though it will probably be a stage and an Assist Trophy (there are six empty stage slots on the character selection screen, one more than the five slots that will be attached to the five upcoming DLC fighters aside from Pirahna Plant). Banjo-Kazooie did phenomenally well on the ballot. Microsoft has also expressed interest in the character being in Smash Bros. Microsoft owned characters (including Banjo characters) have also appeared as part of a Minecraft skin pack for Nintendo console ports of Minecraft, and crossplay for Minecraft between the Switch and Xbox was promoted at E3.

4. Bandana Dee
It seems really suspicious that Bandana Dee is among the few series critical characters not to be represented in any form at all in Ultimate. Not even as a spirit. My personal hypothesis is that characters being excluded as spirits are being saved to become DLC. Bandana Dee is likely going to be DLC due to his high important in Kirby titles released during this decade, as well as his very high popularity, particularly among the Japanese fanbase. He is probably the one Nintendo newcomer I feel the most optimistic on.

5. Elma
It is extremely suspicious that Xenoblade X has almost no content in Ultimate, to the point where Xenoblade 2 has far more content. The only piece of known Xenoblade X content in Ultimate is a spirit of a Skell. That is it. No music, no Mii costumes, no Assist Trophy. If Elma's spirit is not seen in Ultimate, it will be extremely obvious that she is being saved to become DLC.

These are my predictions at this time. I might revise them if it turns out that Bandanna Dee and Elma do have spirits in Ultimate. However, even if that is the case, I will still feel good about Bandana Dee's prospects.

The slot I feel the most iffy on is Elma simply due to the fact that the primary reasons that she is even on here is due to the lack of Xenoblade X content in Ultimate (only a single spirit has been spotted for X, while Xenoblade 2 has multiple spirits, three music tracks, and two Mii costumes). The game is going to be four years old in a few months (in Japan at least). It also was not received as well as the original title or 2, so its somewhat of the blacksheep of the series.

If Elma does show up as a spirit in Ultimate, then her slot opens up to Nintendo newcomers in general, of which Dixie Kong is a possibility. Elma herself would still be contender for DLC, however, she would merely go from a near guarantee to merely a contender. The hopes of many character hinges upon whether there are going to be spirits of Elma, Bandana Dee, and Pirahna Plant. If spirits are absent for important or highly requested characters, then its obvious that spirits are marks of deconfirmation and that it will be that two of our slots are going to Bandana Dee and Elma (and the other three likely third-parties).

Dixie Kong's fate (and the fate of many other characters shown as spirits but lacking any sort of notable NPC role in Ultimate) hangs in the balance with us knowing the whereabouts or lack thereof of these three characters.

If these three characters do show up as spirits too, it means that Dixie Kong has a shot at becoming DLC, and even has quite a few things going for her (her popularity, her legacy to a popular Nintendo franchise, the possibility of her being an Isabelle/Wolf/Lucas style character to Diddy Kong which could help facilitate her development). However, we will not know for sure until the release of the game.

As with for much of this period, Dixie Kong once again finds her fate in a state of ambiguity. Its ironic that she finds herself being among the few characters whose possible de-confirmation for this game will not be known about until the release of the game, the traditional de-confirmation point for character hopes.

We have less than four weeks left. There is nothing else we can do at this point. Talking about why we cherish this character, why we love the games and series she is from, and what we expect from her if she does ever get in, are all topics we can partake in the mean time.

I hope my post sheds some light on what the situation might be looking like for DLC. We are currently facing an uphill battle. However, keep in mind, most speculators told me Roy had almost no hope of being DLC back in November 2014, yet look what happened. Ultimate put in so many characters whose day we thought might never come as well as many characters whom we believed to be a shoe-in, not just for the base roster, but also for DLC, ended up being de-confirmed.

It could end up my predictions for Ultimate's DLC end up mostly being wrong. They could mostly be right (or even entirely right). Regardless, we will not know whether spirits are marks of deconfirmation until the game releases.

Who would have thought that the one piece of unknown content that I would be the most anxious to know about in regards to Ultimate's release would be this game's equivalent of stickers? Yet another example of how this game's speculation cycle threw so many curve balls at me.

I am once again grateful for all the (pleasant) surprises this game has given to me and many others. Now I am just rolling for one more miracle. Dixie Kong as a fighter in Smash Bros.

 

[pap64]

With K. Rool being added to the game, I am shocked and surprised that she did not make it in as a base roster echo or semi-echo. To me it feels logical after we saw K. Rool; Dixie would be the next DK rep and this we would have the main four of the DKC franchise (I know Kiddy Kong was in part three, but Dixie had the longer staying power). Much like how K.Rool's inclusion made so many additions happen, Dixie would have been representation for a nearly forgotten character, a female fighter, a lightweight projectile based character and a legacy character.

I don't know if she would be DLC at this point because, and I can't state this enough, if Nintendo already chose the characters then they want more broadly appealing characters as DLC, and Dixie is a supporting character. But again I could be very wrong and Nintendo does have her as DLC.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So what's you guys's favorite Donkey Kong game? Mine is probably Tropical Freeze as I've played it the most, but I love the heck out of the whole original trilogy, each one for entirely different reasons. My favorite might just be Dixie Kong's Double Trouble just because of how damn creative it is.

Donkey Kong Country 2, easily. Tropical Freeze is also good and real cool, but DKC2 definitely takes it for me.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Here is what I believe the five DLC slots are:

1. Square-Enix character (Geno, Sora, or Dragon Quest character)
This is the one DLC slot that Vergeben knows about. However, its split as to who it could be. Geno has Sakurai's personal preference. Sora might very well be the most wanted third-party character not yet in Smash Bros. Dragon Quest is the biggest Japanese third-party franchise left without any sort of representation in Smash Bros., and there is an upcoming port of Dragon Quest XI coming out for the Switch.

2. Namco-Bandai character
It seems really odd that that Capcom (Mega Man, Street Fighter), Konami (Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania), Sega (Sonic, Bayonetta), Square-Enix (Cloud, whoever the DLC character is) would all have two series with playable characters in Smash Bros., yet the developer for Ultimate still only has one (Pac-Man). Moreover, many of these companies have their series represented through other content in Ultimate (Virtua Fighter has an Assist Trophy, Monster Hunter has a boss and an Assist Trophy, Bomberman has an Assist Trophy). Aside from Mii costumes, Namco-Bandai has no other significant presence in the game aside from Pac-Man. I think the second Namco-Bandai character will probably be Heihachi or Lloyd. However, its always possible that they go with someone else from Tekken or Tales. It is also possible that someone from Soul Calibur is selected.

3. Banjo-Kazooie
Vergeben has gone on the record to say Minecraft content is coming, though he has not said what it is. Personally, I think we will be getting Minecraft content though it will probably be a stage and an Assist Trophy (there are six empty stage slots on the character selection screen, one more than the five slots that will be attached to the five upcoming DLC fighters aside from Pirahna Plant). Banjo-Kazooie did phenomenally well on the ballot. Microsoft has also expressed interest in the character being in Smash Bros. Microsoft owned characters (including Banjo characters) have also appeared as part of a Minecraft skin pack for Nintendo console ports of Minecraft, and crossplay for Minecraft between the Switch and Xbox was promoted at E3.

4. Bandana Dee
It seems really suspicious that Bandana Dee is among the few series critical characters not to be represented in any form at all in Ultimate. Not even as a spirit. My personal hypothesis is that characters being excluded as spirits are being saved to become DLC. Bandana Dee is likely going to be DLC due to his high important in Kirby titles released during this decade, as well as his very high popularity, particularly among the Japanese fanbase. He is probably the one Nintendo newcomer I feel the most optimistic on.

5. Elma
It is extremely suspicious that Xenoblade X has almost no content in Ultimate, to the point where Xenoblade 2 has far more content. The only piece of known Xenoblade X content in Ultimate is a spirit of a Skell. That is it. No music, no Mii costumes, no Assist Trophy. If Elma's spirit is not seen in Ultimate, it will be extremely obvious that she is being saved to become DLC.

These are my predictions at this time. I might revise them if it turns out that Bandanna Dee and Elma do have spirits in Ultimate. However, even if that is the case, I will still feel good about Bandana Dee's prospects.

The slot I feel the most iffy on is Elma simply due to the fact that the primary reasons that she is even on here is due to the lack of Xenoblade X content in Ultimate (only a single spirit has been spotted for X, while Xenoblade 2 has multiple spirits, three music tracks, and two Mii costumes). The game is going to be four years old in a few months (in Japan at least). It also was not received as well as the original title or 2, so its somewhat of the blacksheep of the series.

If Elma does show up as a spirit in Ultimate, then her slot opens up to Nintendo newcomers in general, of which Dixie Kong is a possibility. Elma herself would still be contender for DLC, however, she would merely go from a near guarantee to merely a contender. The hopes of many character hinges upon whether there are going to be spirits of Elma, Bandana Dee, and Pirahna Plant. If spirits are absent for important or highly requested characters, then its obvious that spirits are marks of deconfirmation and that it will be that two of our slots are going to Bandana Dee and Elma (and the other three likely third-parties).

Dixie Kong's fate (and the fate of many other characters shown as spirits but lacking any sort of notable NPC role in Ultimate) hangs in the balance with us knowing the whereabouts or lack thereof of these three characters.

If these three characters do show up as spirits too, it means that Dixie Kong has a shot at becoming DLC, and even has quite a few things going for her (her popularity, her legacy to a popular Nintendo franchise, the possibility of her being an Isabelle/Wolf/Lucas style character to Diddy Kong which could help facilitate her development). However, we will not know for sure until the release of the game.

As with for much of this period, Dixie Kong once again finds her fate in a state of ambiguity. Its ironic that she finds herself being among the few characters whose possible de-confirmation for this game will not be known about until the release of the game, the traditional de-confirmation point for character hopes.

We have less than four weeks left. There is nothing else we can do at this point. Talking about why we cherish this character, why we love the games and series she is from, and what we expect from her if she does ever get in, are all topics we can partake in the mean time.

I hope my post sheds some light on what the situation might be looking like for DLC. We are currently facing an uphill battle. However, keep in mind, most speculators told me Roy had almost no hope of being DLC back in November 2014, yet look what happened. Ultimate put in so many characters whose day we thought might never come as well as many characters whom we believed to be a shoe-in, not just for the base roster, but also for DLC, ended up being de-confirmed.

It could end up my predictions for Ultimate's DLC end up mostly being wrong. They could mostly be right (or even entirely right). Regardless, we will not know whether spirits are marks of deconfirmation until the game releases.

Who would have thought that the one piece of unknown content that I would be the most anxious to know about in regards to Ultimate's release would be this game's equivalent of stickers? Yet another example of how this game's speculation cycle threw so many curve balls at me.

I am once again grateful for all the (pleasant) surprises this game has given to me and many others. Now I am just rolling for one more miracle. Dixie Kong as a fighter in Smash Bros.

You have no idea how much I want you to be right. Banjo and Elma are among my most current wants.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

With K. Rool being added to the game, I am shocked and surprised that she did not make it in as a base roster echo or semi-echo. To me it feels logical after we saw K. Rool; Dixie would be the next DK rep and this we would have the main four of the DKC franchise (I know Kiddy Kong was in part three, but Dixie had the longer staying power). Much like how K.Rool's inclusion made so many additions happen, Dixie would have been representation for a nearly forgotten character, a female fighter, a lightweight projectile based character and a legacy character.

I don't know if she would be DLC at this point because, and I can't state this enough, if Nintendo already chose the characters then they want more broadly appealing characters as DLC, and Dixie is a supporting character. But again I could be very wrong and Nintendo does have her as DLC.

At this stage, she probably will show up next time. Which is fine, since even the Mario franchise barely got any new characters at one point.

Until then, we can be relieved by the fact that the most important step has finally been done for the DK series, now we need to make sure that momentum is kept going in the future. And with Tropical Freeze getting an audience on the Switch, I believe there won't be much need to worry there.

 

[Sabertooth]

I don't think Nintendo would sell a semiclone at the price of a regular character. So she'd have to be totally unique.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I don't think Nintendo would sell a semiclone at the price of a regular character. So she'd have to be totally unique.

Well that's definitely possible, she's fully capable of being unique if they are willing to put that much effort to her move set.

Knowing how important her ponytail plays into her character, she has plenty of potential to be completely different from Diddy's move set.

 

[Ed-boy]

To be fair, Lucas & Roy were a thing back in the Smash 4 DLC. Semi-clones being sold at full(if I remember correctly) price isn't really new. Anything could happen, though, especially when it comes to Smash.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be fair, Lucas & Roy were a thing back in the Smash 4 DLC. Semi-clones being sold at full(if I remember correctly) price isn't really new. Anything could happen, though, especially when it comes to Smash.

Well, that's fair, especially given the fluid definition of what makes a character unique or an Echo.

 

[Ultinarok]

Huh. You know, back when the Echo battles on here were first boiling up, I mentioned that the very definition of an Echo fighter is up to speculation as the only confirmed characteristics were that they were based around another fighter. I mentioned that Dixie could be an Echo but still be reasonably unique.

Everyone insisted Echoes would be full-fledged clones minus 1 or 2 moves or a couple animations and used characters like Dr. Mario and Pichu not being Echoes as evidence. Thus, an Echo Dixie would have to share 90% of everything with Diddy.

Then Ken happened. Moves faster, a few different standards, different properties on all Special moves and 2 unique Final Smashes. He's an Echo.

Like I said, the criteria is whatever Sakurai wants it to be and an Echo Dixie could very well have had many changes from Diddy. Unique is best, but "Echo" may not have been a death knell.

Of course it matters little now, since she didn't make base game and the DLC won't be Echo Fighters, but I'm still glad to see that our panic about the Echo label was partially unfounded as I had suggested.

She should probably be DLC though. I'd pay.

 

[FancySmash]

Well, that's fair, especially given the fluid definition of what makes a character unique or an Echo.

This also makes me curious of how to consider Doc, Pichu, and Young Link.

Doc: We know with Chrom, echoes can pull at least one move from another fighter, so Doc could technically echo Mario and take a move from Luigi.
Pichu: I'm assuming it's the height difference there that keeps Pichu from being a Pikachu echo. Still, they're almost nearly similar.
Young Link: Baffled as to why he isn't a Toon Link echo. Is it because he came before Toon Link? They have roughly the same size.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This also makes me curious of how to consider Doc, Pichu, and Young Link.

Doc: We know with Chrom, echoes can pull at least one move from another fighter, so Doc could technically echo Mario and take a move from Luigi.
Pichu: I'm assuming it's the height difference there that keeps Pichu from being a Pikachu echo. Still, they're almost nearly similar.
Young Link: Baffled as to why he isn't a Toon Link echo. Is it because he came before Toon Link? They have roughly the same size.

In regards to YL, I think it's because of differences between boomerangs (one has wind properties, the other does not).

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

This also makes me curious of how to consider Doc, Pichu, and Young Link.

Doc: We know with Chrom, echoes can pull at least one move from another fighter, so Doc could technically echo Mario and take a move from Luigi.
Pichu: I'm assuming it's the height difference there that keeps Pichu from being a Pikachu echo. Still, they're almost nearly similar.
Young Link: Baffled as to why he isn't a Toon Link echo. Is it because he came before Toon Link? They have roughly the same size.

Young Link and Toon Link still have different body structures and sizes. They also have some differences in attacks too.

 

[FancySmash]

In regards to YL, I think it's because of differences between boomerangs (one has wind properties, the other does not).

Wait, Toon/Young have the Gale Boomerang now?

Young Link and Toon Link still have different body structures and sizes. They also have some differences in attacks too.

That sounds reasonable. They have close heights, but I didn't take into account their proportions...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wait, Toon/Young have the Gale Boomerang now?

Nah, I meant to say, TL has it, while YL has the regular boomerang without wind.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This also makes me curious of how to consider Doc, Pichu, and Young Link.

Doc: We know with Chrom, echoes can pull at least one move from another fighter, so Doc could technically echo Mario and take a move from Luigi.
Pichu: I'm assuming it's the height difference there that keeps Pichu from being a Pikachu echo. Still, they're almost nearly similar.
Young Link: Baffled as to why he isn't a Toon Link echo. Is it because he came before Toon Link? They have roughly the same size.

It comes down to frame data and skeleton sharing of the characters I think. Despite the few differences in certain Echoes, they’ll likely share all the same statistics and overall characteristics as the main character.

Dr.Mario is most Echo like of the other clone characters. But they slowed him down significantly in frame data since Smash 4. In Melee, they where THE absolute most similar. The only one who’s closer is Dark Pit. And am not sure how that is in Ulitmate as I didn’t look that up yet. Dr.Mario got a different Down B now, D Air, pills instead of Fire Balls, drastical slower movement and frame data and overall heavier weight.

Despite him being a historical Echo since Melee, and being added at the last moment of Smash 4 like actual Echoes Lucina and Dark Pit, he had a few slight differences from Mario that he was considered a bit more unique than them. I still consider him a clone, and the most clonish of non-Echoes but Echo doesn’t really count with him anymore.

Young Link was never much of a Echo even since Melee. Link has changed much since then, so Young Link is fine the way he plays. Sakurai added the clones he did in Melee because he could tweak the stats and create something characteristic and unique feel about these characters despite sharing the same move set. Weight, speed, sizes, move properties, all where quite different from Ganondorf, Pichu, Young Link and Falco. Roy and Doc getting a bit less to work with but still had their own personal touch to them.

Young Link and Toon Link seem most similar but they are justified alone by the sheer moveset differences in all but B moves and Final Smash. Toon Link was added as a Brawl newcomer as pretty much a reimagined Young Link. TL doesn’t share the fall speed, ground speed and air speed to either Link, and a few changes in the moves all around these characters make them simply no Echo material.

Anyways speaking of Echoes and clones, am sad that the whole speculation around them are over. I would very much like the continuation of these characters as each still manages to bring a new face to Smash. Wish we could’ve gotten way more of them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Anyways speaking of Echoes and clones, am sad that the whole speculation around them are over. I would very much like the continuation of these characters as each still manages to bring a new face to Smash. Wish we could’ve gotten way more of them.

Yeah, I'll say. needs his bow tie-wearing wife this way, I guess Bamco will continue to pass over/ignore her until further notice.

Having Funky Kong as one of Donkey Kong would have been convenient at the very least, but it seems there wasn't enough time for that. No biggie though, I'll be patient for the next opportunity.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, I'll say. needs his bow tie-wearing wife this way, I guess Bamco will continue to pass over/ignore her until further notice.

Having Funky Kong as one of Donkey Kong would have been convenient at the very least, but it seems there wasn't enough time for that. No biggie though, I'll be patient for the next opportunity.

I would’ve loved a Funky Echo as well. Surfboard Up B which goes way more vertical instead of horizontal and that already justifies his addition. As well as his goofy personality. Guess the roster was decided way too far forward. I still secretly hope for Echo DLC characters.