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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

BirthNote

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I understand and I am prepared to hated upon but I just don't see why she should be a unique fighter. Hopefully someone will try and convince me but I just don't see it. One could be making the same argument about Birdo or another character from the mario/yoshi/dk series on why they should be included as well. But I don't think a lot of kids would be interested to play as her. Kids generally like playing as robots or swordsman or some of the other obscure characters but I don't think this is the right game for dixie. I think she would be perfect as an echo and I 100% support the inclusion of her as an echo.
Welcome to the thread.

First thing I wanna comment on is kid appeal; I don't see this holding up at all because Smash Bros isn't aimed strictly at children but at people who grew up with video games as early as 1980, thanks to Pac-Man, G&W, etc. Restricting Dixie on those grounds doesn't seem wise. With Tropical Freeze selling over 2 million copies this year, along with Dixie and Funky being the most beginner-friendly characters, I wouldn't worry about her not being recognized by kids. Dixie's been a big part of DKC since the 90s and is recognized from kids of that era, who are adults by now. She's not exactly obscure.

As for the statement about uniqueness feel free to check the OP, specifically "This Kong's Got Style" and "Fan-Created Movesets"
 

Jakenimbus

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chrom is the only echo that has different moves, one different move to be exact. And she could easily have brand new normals, aerials and smashes based around using her hair in various ways.
True. The main thing that I am thinking now is that I feel like there are going to be only 4 more new characters not including echo fighters) added to the game, and I feel like there are other more unique characters like Issac, skull kid, a new pokemon, and Geno. Dixie just shares a little too much with diddy for me to personally take one of the four spots over some of the characters that I have named. If I thought there were would be 10 available new character spots, then I would've joined the dixie as a new fighter train but I just don't think there are that many spots left. I am still 100% in for her making the game as an echo and I get that it is kinda dumping on her history but I just feel like it would be robbing another character of a fighter spot if she were to be added.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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True. The main thing that I am thinking now is that I feel like there are going to be only 4 more new characters not including echo fighters) added to the game, and I feel like there are other more unique characters like Issac, skull kid, a new pokemon, and Geno. Dixie just shares a little too much with diddy for me to personally take one of the four spots over some of the characters that I have named. If I thought there were would be 10 available new character spots, then I would've joined the dixie as a new fighter train but I just don't think there are that many spots left. I am still 100% in for her making the game as an echo and I get that it is kinda dumping on her history but I just feel like it would be robbing another character of a fighter spot if she were to be added.
Well assuming Sakurai does in fact see her potential I'd rather they save her and add her as dlc rather than forcing her into being an echo when she was presumably planned to have a unique moveset back in the brawl days
 

Jakenimbus

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Well assuming Sakurai does in fact see her potential I'd rather they save her and add her as dlc rather than forcing her into being an echo when she was presumably planned to have a unique moveset back in the brawl days
True, that would definitely give her justice to be added in as dlc. After all, there has to be a good reason to buy the dlc and I would definitely if she were added as apart of it. Also, I am not sure if nintendo is adding more than one new character that isn't an echo per franchise cause we have yet to see a franchise get more than 1 new character excluding echo fighters for the game. I am still on team dixie for smash though!
 

Ultinarok

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True. The main thing that I am thinking now is that I feel like there are going to be only 4 more new characters not including echo fighters) added to the game, and I feel like there are other more unique characters like Issac, skull kid, a new pokemon, and Geno. Dixie just shares a little too much with diddy for me to personally take one of the four spots over some of the characters that I have named. If I thought there were would be 10 available new character spots, then I would've joined the dixie as a new fighter train but I just don't think there are that many spots left. I am still 100% in for her making the game as an echo and I get that it is kinda dumping on her history but I just feel like it would be robbing another character of a fighter spot if she were to be added.
This makes sense. This is the way to present your point. Remember that no one can hear your tone when posting on the internet. It's unfortunate but it can cause something to come across far more hostile than it is.

Saying "Dixie is not my preference for one of the limited newcomer slots left" is different from saying "Dixie as a separate fighter? No thanks." Because the former is a constructive and reasonable point, and the latter sounds like you hold the character in disdain and would be angry or grossed out it she got in as a separate fighter. And I don't think I need to say that this thread is probably not the place to present the latter statement considering you're surrounded by people who would be disappointed if she WASN'T
a separate fighter lol.

I just had a random idea that I think would be cool. How sweet would it be if Sakurai added a unique mechanic to battles where Diddy and Dixie are fighting on a team: if they taunt right next to each other, they do a unique taunt together to pay homage to their status as a duo? Or better yet, the taunt has some kind of hitbox that gives them a unique move only when fighting together? Like their throw attacks. It would be a nice reference to both their home game and their original consideration in Brawl as a double character.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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True, that would definitely give her justice to be added in as dlc. After all, there has to be a good reason to buy the dlc and I would definitely if she were added as apart of it. Also, I am not sure if nintendo is adding more than one new character that isn't an echo per franchise cause we have yet to see a franchise get more than 1 new character excluding echo fighters for the game. I am still on team dixie for smash though!
Well every smash game has done this, smash 64 had pikachu and jigglypuff (she was kind of a kirby clone but eh), melee had bowser and peach, as well as sheik and Zelda, 2 Zelda clones were also included in young link and ganondorf. Then Brawl had Lucario, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, then smash 4 has bowser jr and rosalina. More than one unique character can be added per franchise, sakurai doesn't think in terms of reps, if both characters are deserving then they'll both be added, simple as that.
 

StormC

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Well every smash game has done this, smash 64 had pikachu and jigglypuff (she was kind of a kirby clone but eh), melee had bowser and peach, as well as sheik and Zelda, 2 Zelda clones were also included in young link and ganondorf. Then Brawl had Lucario, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard, then smash 4 has bowser jr and rosalina. More than one unique character can be added per franchise, sakurai doesn't think in terms of reps, if both characters are deserving then they'll both be added, simple as that.
Don't forget :dedede::metaknight: for Brawl.
 

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Hoo boy, I have a lot of thoughts to share here. Let's see...

I wish they would use their voice actors from Tropical Freeze, but I think they're just staying with generic simian sounds. I think all of the Kongs voices in that game work really well with their respective character.
I definitely agree. I like how the Kongs sound in Tropical Freeze so far. It's a treat to hear them every time I play the game.

Honestly, I never understood the Tiny thing. Why didn't Rare just make her Dixie Kong?
This isn't so much a response to the above quote, but rather a question for anyone willing to answer. Now, am I the only one who didn't mind Dixie being switched out for Tiny? Granted though, in my defense, I was roughly 9 years old and had only known Dixie for about 4 or 5 years; not to mention I had little to no bias one way or the other while playing new games at the time.

Nowadays, thanks to the roster in DK64, I have a soft spot for both Dixie and Tiny, which explains my excitement when I saw Dixie in Tropical Freeze, and my... concerns regarding Tiny's redesign.

but yes im in the same boat. IMPATIENT and CURIOUS.
Simply want to add how much I agree with this right now. The days are dragging on.

I just had a random idea that I think would be cool. How sweet would it be if Sakurai added a unique mechanic to battles where Diddy and Dixie are fighting on a team: if they taunt right next to each other, they do a unique taunt together to pay homage to their status as a duo? Or better yet, the taunt has some kind of hitbox that gives them a unique move only when fighting together? Like their throw attacks. It would be a nice reference to both their home game and their original consideration in Brawl as a double character.
Reminds me of a similar idea I had that I had been wanting to share with you all, but have been forgetting to mention. What if we took Ultinarok's base concept regarding Diddy and Dixie on a team while using a taunt, but if used against someone like King K. Rool, they would use the same pre-boss animation used in DKC2?



Quite honestly, I would ADORE this so much! :love: As I get older, my sentimentality for DKC2 and my maturing sense of humor are making me love this more and more with each passing year. It's just too hilarious in my opinion.
 

Ultinarok

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Don't forget 3 Fire Emblem characters in Smash Wii U.
Four, if you count bringing back and partially decloning Roy. Wii U gave two unique FE newcomers, a semi-clone and a clone newcomer. There are no franchise rules when it comes to representation. Whatever Sakurai feels fits in Smash, gets in Smash.
 

Bluekirby2

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I'd like Dixie Kong but if she has to be an echo fighter I'd rather not have her at all. A semi-clone in the same vein as Lucas I'd be fine with but Dixie using peanut pop-guns and a barrel jet-pack is just a sin
 

Brother AJ

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I'd prefer her to be a unique fighter, but I feel like her best chance may be as an echo at this point... I'm curious if anyone would rather her not show up until she can become her own fighter? It might be better to get her in the game, and then de-clone her in later games. This is assuming that they feel that some echoes are worth changing of course...
 

StormC

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I'd prefer her to be a unique fighter, but I feel like her best chance may be as an echo at this point... I'm curious if anyone would rather her not show up until she can become her own fighter? It might be better to get her in the game, and then de-clone her in later games. This is assuming that they feel that some echoes are worth changing of course...
Although I would prefer at least a semi-clone, Chrom and Dark Samus have given me enough faith to make me okay with her being an echo.

I'm honestly not optimistic about her DLC chances if she misses the base game, so part of me feels like this is it until Smash 6.
 

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Would kind of prefer her to be in the game as an echo fighter, with the main differences being her using a bubblegum gun (like from Tropical Freeze) in place of the peanut popgun and using her hair for her up special. She could also have a different final smash from Diddy, but we will have to wait and see what the heck Diddy's FS is first.

Speaking of Final Smash, I wonder if they'll just incorporate her into Diddy's FS as opposed to making her playable. Ideally, I'd want her playable, but being part of an FS is certainly better than nothing.

I do feel like if she is not in the base game at all then she probably wouldn't be added as DLC. Hope she makes it in!
 

MoonlitIllusion

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I'd prefer her to be a unique fighter, but I feel like her best chance may be as an echo at this point... I'm curious if anyone would rather her not show up until she can become her own fighter? It might be better to get her in the game, and then de-clone her in later games. This is assuming that they feel that some echoes are worth changing of course...
DLC could still be a possibility, especially if a new DK game comes out which it really should after the success of the last 2
 

Brother AJ

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Would kind of prefer her to be in the game as an echo fighter, with the main differences being her using a bubblegum gun (like from Tropical Freeze) in place of the peanut popgun and using her hair for her up special. She could also have a different final smash from Diddy, but we will have to wait and see what the heck Diddy's FS is first.

Speaking of Final Smash, I wonder if they'll just incorporate her into Diddy's FS as opposed to making her playable. Ideally, I'd want her playable, but being part of an FS is certainly better than nothing.

I do feel like if she is not in the base game at all then she probably wouldn't be added as DLC. Hope she makes it in!
Throw in some grabs with her hair and I feel like it would work well... At least as much as it could... Maybe even a few tilts changed? It's not clear how different echo fighters can be. They can only have one move changed? Maybe he could even use Dixie to introduce the classification of "semi-echo" like Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link? One can hope.
 

AngrySun88

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At this point it would be criminal not to include Dixie as a playable character when we now have K Rool.

If she is an echo fighter, they could give her some of DK and Diddy's moves like how Chrom is a bit of an amalgamation of other Fire Emblem characters. But I'd rather she be a new character or semi-clone.
 

Parallel_Falchion

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I'd prefer her to be a unique fighter, but I feel like her best chance may be as an echo at this point... I'm curious if anyone would rather her not show up until she can become her own fighter? It might be better to get her in the game, and then de-clone her in later games. This is assuming that they feel that some echoes are worth changing of course...
I would genuinely rather not have her at all than have her as an echo fighter. "De-cloning" hasn't really happened since Brawl, and while I'm fine with Dixie sharing some of Diddy's moves, the amount of new ones I would need to be satisfied is likely too much for her to be considered an echo.
 

MasterWarlord

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If Dixie Kong were a unique newcomer, she would have been more likely to be shown alongside K. Rool. As is, Dixie Kong appears to be like Dark Samus. Showing a low effort echo alongside an AAA moveset and smash speculation legend just takes away from the main focus. Dark Samus was shown the direct after Ridley despite the fact it could have technically been there, the same is likely to happen for Dixie. Dixie will get in if Dark Samus made it.

If Dixie -did- have a unique moveset, I think it is important to spread the hair twirl across multiple moves. The Up B can be the tropical Freeze version of going straight up, while the Neutral B can be the DKC2/3 version of slow descent. Bubblegum Gun fills another special. The last special is harder and I have personally always hated the idea of the guitar as an attack, it would be equivalent to Diddy Kong pulling out his boom box for an attack. I would sooner suggest an animal crate/Rambi/Ellie.

The most likely compromise is her specials at least could be different from Diddy's and/or varied up some. Chrom has already broken the rules somewhat, though hopefully Dixie could get a bit better than that. As much as I personally think K. Rool deserved it over her, Dixie is still a Smash speculation legend in her own right who deserves to be treated better than something like Daisy.
 
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Parallel_Falchion

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Showing a low effort echo alongside an AAA moveset and smash speculation legend just takes away from the main focus
Robin and Lucina in Smash 4, though? Hell, Simon and Richter.

We've seen clone + full newcomer announced in one trailer, twice (3 if you count Dark Pit). We've never seen two full newcomers announced in one trailer.
 

MasterWarlord

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Robin and Lucina in Smash 4, though? Hell, Simon and Richter.

We've seen clone + full newcomer announced in one trailer, twice (3 if you count Dark Pit). We've never seen two full newcomers announced in one trailer.
Anything can happen. The main reason I'm basing it off of what happened with Ridley is because K. Rool and Ridley, along with DK and Metroid in general, are so commonly paired together in Smash speculation. It seems like the most logical model to follow.

Donkey Kong can absolutely sustain 4 unique characters, I'm just queasy about it actually happening with 3-5 more unique characters at most. Considering the fact K. Rool got in at all despite not being "relevant", I think it is safe to say he was more popular. The main thing going for her right now is the ballot is being used which should hopefully help her, but the vote split may have been too strong with K. Rool. If they were showing Dixie and K. Rool separately and Dixie was fully unique, I believe they would show Dixie first for that reason and save K. Rool for later for "hype."

I also think the first DK assist trophy being a Klap Trap does not bode that well for Dixie. It could've been Cranky, Funky, Rambi, Lord Fredrik, anything relevant would've pointed more to Dixie Kong over a random Kremling. A Klap Trap may mean Sakurai just wanted to address the Kremling elephant in the room rather than to address DK representation in general.

As I have stressed throughout the post, none of this is in any way definitive. I just think it is a fair bit more likely that she will be an echo. It's what my gut is telling me based off what I'm seeing.
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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If Dixie Kong were a unique newcomer, she would have been more likely to be shown alongside K. Rool. As is, Dixie Kong appears to be like Dark Samus. Showing a low effort echo alongside an AAA moveset and smash speculation legend just takes away from the main focus. Dark Samus was shown the direct after Ridley despite the fact it could have technically been there, the same is likely to happen for Dixie. Dixie will get in if Dark Samus made it.

If Dixie -did- have a unique moveset, I think it is important to spread the hair twirl across multiple moves. The Up B can be the tropical Freeze version of going straight up, while the Neutral B can be the DKC2/3 version of slow descent. Bubblegum Gun fills another special. The last special is harder and I have personally always hated the idea of the guitar as an attack, it would be equivalent to Diddy Kong pulling out his boom box for an attack. I would sooner suggest an animal crate/Rambi/Ellie.

The most likely compromise is her specials at least could be different from Diddy's and/or varied up some. Chrom has already broken the rules somewhat, though hopefully Dixie could get a bit better than that. As much as I personally think K. Rool deserved it over her, Dixie is still a Smash speculation legend in her own right who deserves to be treated better than something like Daisy.
I think the opposite, if she was unique she'd have her own trailer so the two wouldn't take away from one another, if she were an echo she'd be in K Rool's like how Lucina was in robin's.

I always imagined the glide would work like peach's rather than being a special move, she can have a command grab for a side special, the bubblegum gun for a neutral special and they can make something up for down special.
 

pepiux

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I cannot believe how anyone who supports Dixie would prefer her to be an Echo rather than unique. Something's not right there. I've been asking around and I get a lot of responses along the lines of "well I support her, but there are characters that I want more and would rather not have Dixie take their unique spot."
 

GravelerChamp60

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Since Sakurai most likely had to do his research on K. Rool by revisiting the games he was in, it's certain that the idea of possibly adding Dixie had to cross his mind. Plus so far there seems to be a lack of representation from Tropical Freeze so Dixie is perfect to fullfill that. At this point I rather see Dixie as a respected echo than not seeing her at all.
 

Ultinarok

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I think the opposite, if she was unique she'd have her own trailer so the two wouldn't take away from one another, if she were an echo she'd be in K Rool's like how Lucina was in robin's.

I always imagined the glide would work like peach's rather than being a special move, she can have a command grab for a side special, the bubblegum gun for a neutral special and they can make something up for down special.
Hair Ground Slam from Tropical Freeze for Down B. Basically DK's Down B but faster and alternating sides rather than both at once.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Hair Ground Slam from Tropical Freeze for Down B. Basically DK's Down B but faster and alternating sides rather than both at once.
That could work but I've always seen that being her down smash, I'm sure sakurai could come up with something else that's more interesting pretty easily. But then again K Rool got a counter so eh.
 

DeltaSceptile

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I cannot believe how anyone who supports Dixie would prefer her to be an Echo rather than unique. Something's not right there. I've been asking around and I get a lot of responses along the lines of "well I support her, but there are characters that I want more and would rather not have Dixie take their unique spot."
Dixie is and has always been one of my most wanted. I think she will get as unique, because TBH, I doubt Isaac will ever happen, due to not even remotely existing in smash 4. That’s a free spot for a character who’s more popular in Japan, and has relevancy + the ability to be a semi-clone without getting too far from her roots.

Edit: she also has a higher chance than Geno, because Square still won’t let Cloud have more than two songs, which really makes you question his chances.
 
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Ultinarok

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That could work but I've always seen that being her down smash, I'm sure sakurai could come up with something else that's more interesting pretty easily. But then again K Rool got a counter so eh.
I'd imagined her Down Smash being a topspin headstand kick based on her idle pose from TF. Or even just Diddy's because it's a damn good move.
 

BravadoMan_13

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Some may disagree with me on this. In my personal opinion, I believe Dixie is too iconic to be just an echo. Dixie being a centerpiece of two of the SNES trilogy games makes her deserving to be a unique character in Smash.
 
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StormC

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Some may disagree with me on this. In my personal opinion, I believe Dixie is too iconic to be just an echo. Dixie being a centerpiece of two of the SNES trilogy games makes her deserving to be a unique character in Smash.
I think most of us would want at least a semi-clone but I also feel I have to keep my expectations realistic at this point. So I am fine with an echo as long as she’s as unique as Dark Samus and Chrom. There’s nothing to be done about it now.
 

BravadoMan_13

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I think most of us would want at least a semi-clone but I also feel I have to keep my expectations realistic at this point. So I am fine with an echo as long as she’s as unique as Dark Samus and Chrom. There’s nothing to be done about it now.
I understand. She may be in the veins of Luigi and Falco who have somewhat similar movesets to Mario and Fox respectively changed enough to make them different. That's what I think might happen but won't know until Dixie's official confirmation. I've said before that I like to see semi-clonish or full on unique, but if she is an echo, I won't be that upset. I just hope Dixie gets confirmed soon.
 

Maxoxpower

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Some may disagree with me on this. In my personal opinion, I believe Dixie is too iconic to be just an echo. Dixie being a centerpiece of two of the SNES trilogy games makes her deserving to be a unique character in Smash.
i agree 100% but in the end...it's sakurai game and remember...we didnt get any DK NEWCOMER in smash 4 and we got our first DK ASSIST trophy in ultimate....
 

DeltaSceptile

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Dixie is actually probably at the top of the priority list outside of bandana dee right now, with DK finally getting some love. The only characters outside of Dixie and BD that I’d consider locks are Shadow and Isabelle, who are both guaranteed to be echoes. She doesn’t have enough competition to not be unique, especially when some assist trophies haven’t been seen. The next direct will tell us the final group that got screwed over by the assist trophy item.
 
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StormC

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She doesn’t have enough competition to not be unique
-New Pokemon
-Isaac
-Bandana Dee
-Chorus Kids or some other Rhythm Heaven character
-Isabelle (who is by no means guaranteed to be an echo)
-Geno
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Any other misc. third party I can't see coming

Are all "competition." I think it's pretty easy to see a scenario where there is too much competition for her to be unique.
 

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I wanna reiterate that we gotta keep a few things in mind regarding K. Rool's reveal: it premiered at the end of the Direct, to close the presentation. Leading up to his reveal, we'd just gotten a ton of info on new stages, music, interface options, characters, items, ATs and game modes, so to look at K. Rool's trailer and go "Well I didn't see Dixie so clearly she's done" isn't the best conclusion to draw. Since the K. Rool trailer dropped without a follow-up overview from Sakurai, we need to wait until the next Direct to get a better idea of Dixie's fate.

Just as the Inklings got announced months before their overview, it seems that K. Rool's getting a similar situation. When the next Direct is up we'll get an extended look at how the Kroc plays, and if she's an Echo, Dixie's best shot at being revealed will be as an "oh, BTW..." during K. Rool's spotlight. If she's not an Echo she's certainly getting a segment to herself to show us away she can do. Overall, as a way to close the Direct and keep us speculating, K. Rool's best off with a trailer focusing on him, as he's been fiercely requested and gone for 10 years, and the results speak for themselves.

As for the Klaptrap AT, that doesn't deconfirm Dixie, it foreshadowed K. Rool. He has a stronger association with them, being his underlings after all. Using that to deconfirm Dixie when it means K. Rool had an indirect presence seems like some people are jumping the gun. A Dixie AT would deconfirm Dixie. A Kong AT would foreshadow a new playable Kong, which includes Dixie indirectly.

Another thing worth pointing out is that if they're both in the game, they're in for 2 different reasons. Fanservice is what got K. Rool in Smash, as he's been dormant for 10 years, and that's absolutely great. If Dixie's in, she'll be riding in on Tropical Freeze, as SSBU's era of games will focus on Wii U, some 3DS and a couple of Switch releases in addition to fan requests. Basically 2011-2015, with some exceptions. Of the 4 Unique characters, and all the announced Echoes besides Richter, the Inklings are the only one who don't simply have massive fan appeal. They come from the Wii U era in addition to being fan favorites, and so far we've seen next to no newcomers that are a part of the era of games that SSBU would be focusing on besides them. Dixie would do just fine in this regard, as Tropical Freeze is from the Wii U era and within Smash's focus range this time.

Now, unto the Echo Issue. We know it's possible, but our biggest issue is that--as some users have proven--this is what some believe is all she'll get, that's all she's good for and Unique is completely unreasonable. This is an assumption she's faced throughout most of her speculation lifespan; it's not new, it's just got a new name. We see her merits and ideally we'd like her to be Unique, and some semblance of Semi Clone is fine too. We also know the chance of Echo is there too, and we won't be thrilled but we will accept it as this game looks amazing already. However, we won't pretend like Unique is something that could just never happen either. We see the potential and we're gonna speculate on it.
 
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This might be a stretch but I think it's a good thing that K. Rool's trailer ended on a dire note. Ridley's trailer ended with Zero Suit Samus about to fight Ridley which is hopeful. Bowser Jr's CG part of the trailer also ended in the start of a fight which could be hopeful. K. Rool's trailer ends with him stomping the Kong's into the ground and taunting. It's make a lot of sense if Dixie is revealed saving the Kongs, especially because that's what she does in DKC3.
 

Nap_

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It's not about if we prefer her as an echo. It's about her chances. Very limited slots for newcomers, very popular pics like K. Rool or Ridley or iconoc as Simon. Dixie is not tier 1 in popularity, she's not the main character of DK. ****, she's still in AT danger zone or probably in Diddy's final smash.
In fan ballots she's not among the very top. Geno, Isaac, K. Rool, Banjo, Bandana Dee... They crush her options for popular characters. More iconic than Heihachi or Simon? Is a new character from a new franchise as a possible Rythm Heaven rep? No. She's just the potentially 4th rep of DK.
Probably she did well enough in the official ballot, (I voted for her too), at least in the same way or even better than Chrom, Daisy or Dark Samus and here they are. Those characters also got their potential for a full newcomer but... Echoes. Daisy with Toads? Chrom related to Roy? Dark Samus losing her unique AT attacks? Dixie with a lack of hair attacks? For me sounds similar. And a echo moveset... Just seems suitable for her. She fits well there. Her options for a clean new slot aren't the best, we know this. Even in the echo league her rivals are monsters like Ken or Shadow. Get it real, Dixie is not an easy choice.
Hey, if she's a unique fighter it could be a big surprise but I really doubt it.
 
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