Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[Doc Monocle]

Sometimes I feel like the only person on the planet that doesn't like or care about Metroid. A part of me (the bitter, spiteful part that's still mad about the Metroid fandom's reaction to Tropical Freeze) feels like they should just put Prime 4 out of its misery already.

You know what I wish Retro was making, besides a new Donkey Kong? That canceled Boo game. That looked fresh and fun.

For me, though it has nothing to do with 'fandom,' I did not care as much for the Metroid game (Super Metroid), as I thought I would. It was tedious to navigate, nerve-wracking, stressful (I play games to have fun), and always had you feeling like you were going to be ambushed. It was also very difficult to play, and the predominantly subterranean-labyrinth setting made me feel trapped often.

So overall, I liked that it had rich gameplay, the science fiction theme, and the concept of Samus and some of the bosses. However, I do not particularly like Metroid either if most games in the series are similar.

 

[Justin Little]

For what it's worth, Zero Mission is my favorite 2D Metroid and think it's a great entry way for newbies. Super Metroid is great, but I do find it may be a little too difficult for newcomers.

 

[Planet Cool]

Yeah well, I feel like I'm one of the only Metroid fans that welcomed Tropical Freeze with open arms (I know it wasn't the entire fandom that reacted against it, mainly just the people on neogaf at the time), while I was lowkey trying to keep fans of both series from fighting or hating each other, as one that treasures both IPs and all.

Heh. While I think being that spiteful against Prime 4 makes you no better than the Tropical Freeze haters back then, MP4 being cancelled now oddly wouldn't hurt that much, when it's only had a title screenshot and nothing 3+ years later. Assuming the next DK is by EPD or something which mostly everyone collectively agrees on, am willing to bet that it'll be out well before Prime 4, or at the very least have some notable info shed on it before MP4 does.

Not all Metroid fans were part of the hate mob, of course, but in addition to the stuff Justin Little mentioned, you had major gaming publications running headlines like "Retro's New Game Is Another Damn Donkey Kong." You couldn't mention the game (let alone express any excitement for it) anywhere on the internet without people screaming that it was "a waste of Retro's talent" or "a game anybody could make" and that "nobody gives a f*** about Donkey Kong Country." It all left a very sour taste in my mouth.

I'm not saying fans can't be excited for Prime 4 or upset that it's taking so long, but like... dudes, at least you know your game is coming. At least you had Samus Returns to tide you over. DK's last game was seven years ago, a very vocal subset of Metroid fans shouted it down months before release just for existing, and now the series is in limbo again.

...but hey, in the interest of peace, I'm glad Ridley finally made it to Smash. Even as a non-fan, I always thought he was cool (and cringed at all the trolling and memery his fans got for supporting him).

 

[Justin Little]

It really bothers me Metroid fans didn't buy Samus Returns. I hear from some they didn't buy it because it was remake of a game they had already played. The game itself is more of a reimagining of Metroid 2 in the same way Zero Mission is to the first game. Some things are familiar, but there is enough new stuff and twists to where it's virtually a new game. Hell DKCR is a straight up port with only 8 new levels, and that game sold an estimate 3 million units. I consider us Metroid fans lucky Nintendo is still sticking with us despite some of us do more barking than we bite.

Spoiler

Dixie Kong for Smash!

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Sometimes I feel like the only person on the planet that doesn't like or care about Metroid. A part of me (the bitter, spiteful part that's still mad about the Metroid fandom's reaction to Tropical Freeze) feels like they should just put Prime 4 out of its misery already.

You know what I wish Retro was making, besides a new Donkey Kong? That canceled Boo game. That looked fresh and fun.

What is this supposed Boo game?

My perspective, as someone who didn't really get into DKC until 2015 and only completed a Metroid game a couple months ago, is that I wish Metroid and DK fans would realize that they don't need to be enemies. They seem like completely different games on the surface but they actually have way more in common than you might think; both franchises are beloved for their clever level designs and sense of atmosphere, which I think is the reason Retro was so good with them.

I find it weird at the thought of DKC and Metroid fans being "enemies". I vastly enjoyed the unity between K. Rool fans and Ridley fans back in the Smash 4 and pre-Ultimate days. We supported each other through thick and thin and we both had to deal with detractors and their poorly constructed excuses. Yes I am more of a DKC fan since I grew up with the games when I was a child but then I got into the Metroid series via Prime as an adult and that is a grand experience.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Though I'm a bigger fan of the Donkey Kong franchise overall, I'm still a Metroid fan and still really looking forward to the release of Metroid Prime 4.

I own Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii, But I have only played the 1st 2 games, Have yet to play "Corruption", Kind of holding out until they "Supposedly" remaster the trilogy for Switch to play all 3 games in time for 4, I also been meaning to play Metroid (NES) and Super Metroid, Luckily I own both the NES and SNES Classic, So definitely will play them before the replaying the Prime series again in anticipation of Metroid Prime 4.

I always thought Metroid looked really cool, Especially the Prime series and was happy that Ridley eventually made it into Super Smash Bros, But I didn't really get into the series until I was a teenager where as Mario, Pokemon and Donkey Kong have carried my Nintendo and video game interest since my early childhood.

That being said I was really annoyed on the reception that Tropical Freeze was received, Donkey Kong really can't catch a break, Many see it as one of the best 2D platformers all time and certain fans and people in the industry view it as a disappointment, Anytime everyone talks about the next big Nintendo game, DK barely even gets mentioned or draws attention from most fans because it's not seen as, cute, edgy, or even Mario.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I got Samus Returns, and pretty much every fellow fan I saw did. Think it mostly just suffered from coming out at the end of the 3DS lifecycle, while the Switch hype was just starting in 2017 and more people were focused on it. SR sold around the average amount a 2D game has made iirc; didn't power bomb like a certain mistimed spinoff nobody asked for, which I would play Jungle Beat over.

And DK's weird position after TF is a result of a number of things, including but not limited to Nintendo's previous failure in marketing and trying to recover costs. Hence the ports... But yeah.

 

[Planet Cool]

What is this supposed Boo game?

Retro worked on a Boo game for 3DS that was ultimately canceled. You can read about it here.

That being said I was really annoyed on the reception that Tropical Freeze was received, Donkey Kong really can't catch a break, Many see it as one of the best 2D platformers all time and certain fans and people in the industry view it as a disappointment, Anytime everyone talks about the next big Nintendo game, DK barely even gets mentioned or draws attention from most fans because it's not seen as, cute, edgy, or even Mario.

DK is really strange. It's zany cartoon characters on a weirdly realistic, kind of melancholy backdrop. It's full of self-deprecating jokes, but the atmosphere is grand and epic. I don't think most Nintendo fans (especially Mario fans) know what to make of it.

 

[Justin Little]

I got Samus Returns, and pretty much every fellow fan I saw did. Think it mostly just suffered from coming out at the end of the 3DS lifecycle, while the Switch hype was just starting in 2017 and more people were focused on it. SR sold around the average amount a 2D game has made iirc; didn't power bomb like a certain mistimed spinoff nobody asked for, which I would play Jungle Beat over.

And DK's weird position after TF is a result of a number of things, including but not limited to Nintendo's previous failure in marketing and trying to recover costs. Hence the ports... But yeah.

According to this, https://www.resetera.com/threads/ni...ardware-sales-data-from-1983-to-present.2725/

It and Zero Mission haven't surpassed a mil. In addition to releasing late in the 3DS' lifecycle, I don't believe many Metroid fans own the 3DS. The series isn't exactly known for being a handheld staple when it comes to sales. Fed Force also probably scared the fanbase from investing in it.

 

[helloiamhere]

Only real ones will remember the Great DK vs FE wars in the Smash 4 era.

 

[DeniroSerafim]

How many of those "Metroid fans" that lost it when Tropical Freeze was announced have actually played a Metroid game before? It seemed like it was mostly angry Wii U owners that felt like they were owed a HARDCORE game that could compete with Uncharted and Halo, as if that somehow would have saved the Wii U. I love both DK and Metroid by the way, pitting them against each other was always really dumb. It kind of is a shame Retro isn't able to develop both series simultaneously, at least as far as we know.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Yeah remember when Miyamoto said Retro Studios was capable of developing 2 projects at once? Yeah...Retro can barely release 1 game at a consistent pace...yeah all the games they have made are fantastic but it seems like almost everytime they make a game they are limping to the finish line...

This whole Metroid vs. DK debacle shouldn't have even been a thing if Retro Studios had better management. Yes Im still salty they wasted 6 years inbetween Tropical Freeze and developing Prime 4 with nothing to show. Im honestly shocked Retro was even able to keep their doors open in that time. Everytime Retro Studios tries to make an original IP it never works out so why do they keep trying? If I was Nintendo I would make Retro Studios the DKC and Prime developer only. That way both franchises get a consistent developer and can hopefully get a new release every 2-3 years.

Im also gonna say something a bit controversial but I think Next Level Games has shown more consistency and range than Retro has. While I think Retro's games are better overall than Next Level's Nintendo offerings. Next Level has proven they can work in multiple genres/IP from arcade soccer, arcade puzzle boxer, multiplayer/co-op FPS, and ghost busting adventure games. Where as Retro has only do 2 things and everything else has been cancelled. NLG only has one cancellation under Nintendo's belt being Super Mario Spikers.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Like I said before, Retro could’ve been the next Rare for us (for DK and other series it’s worked on) if it was better managed... Funny enough, was rumored one time earlier that Retro was gonna close down, which prior to the MP4 news I could’ve believed with all the radio silence.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Both Metroid and DK have suffered from Nintendo often not knowing how to effectively market and generally manage.

The former was too dark for a company that didn't really even experiment with that until the aughts, it never made a strong impression in Japan, and lacked the same beginner friendly elements as other IP's. It often felt like a square peg in a company filled with round holes, and stalled the momentum of Metroid is a sign of that. The lack of even media and merchandise underlies this point; a setting that could have easily excelled and gained new fans via stuff like comics never really got it. That a manga came out for it in the country where it was much less popular tells you everything about the skewed sense of priorities its had to deal with.

Notable as well is that the franchise is one that excels thanks to Nintendo's best tendencies and suffers from its worst mistakes. The refinement of series in the SNES period led to the brilliance of Super Metroid while the combination of experimentation on Gamecube and more traditional titles on the GBA led to fantastic 3D and 2D games respectively. Conversely Metroid was the canary in the coalmine about the downsides of hyper casualization in Other M and excess spin-off focus via Federation Force.

Donkey Kong is an odd beast in that its never really gone away, but fell prey to the company often resisting its strongest potential output, perhaps to make it better fit in with the rest of the Nintendo line-up. As noted the GBA brought back new 2D Metroid titles in a big way, and there's no reason Nintendo couldn't have done the same with DK. The GBA remakes were fine but there was a low risk opportunity to push the series forward on a successful console that they ultimately didn't take advantage of. That's not even getting into the decade long focus on the Mario vs Donkey Kong series (most of which were on very popular systems) which demonstrated that there was interest in DK adjacent titles, but only ones where he was the antagonist.

The irony is that the lack of interest ended up becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for the company at the exact worst time for them. The neglect of DKC series had been so significant and its original elements so ignored (outside select spin-offs) that when it finally did embrace the series roots with Tropical Freeze, it had already helped create a section of fans that were outraged that Retro was working on a Country release instead of another Prime game. TF was paying not for Metroid's sins, but for Nintendo's. Every time they failed to put DK elements in a Mario Kart or Party title, the inability to take advantage of DK64's sales momentum with another platformer release for 10 years, and even the meh execution of stuff like Barrell Blast & the DKR remake? Of course there would be fans upset, because outside Returns they'd been given very little incentive to care about the series proper.

That's the shared element that both series have; a lament that they could be so much more because we've seen what they're capable of.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

So I've been watching all of the Super Nintendo World videos that have released today and it has given me newfound hope for the DK portion when it opens because the Mario section has TONS of references to many games including:

• Super Mario 64
• Mario Kart 8
• Mario Kart 64
• Yoshi's Island
• Yoshi's New Island
• Super Mario 3D World
• Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
• New Super Mario Bros. U
• Yoshi's Island DS

^ Thats a good amount of games referenced there (that I noticed) where as Nintendo could've easily just done the games relevant in 2014/15 when the park was being conceptualized but it seems they wanted to pull from as many games as possible that would fit the theme of the park. So I HOPE they do the same for DK and not just focus on Returns and NOTHING else.

EDIT: Also all the music in the park has been remixed/orchestrated. So the park has its own renditions of classic tunes from different games including ones not represented in the park via props and such, such as songs from Sunshine and Galaxy. So once again it makes me excited to hear the DK music that will play throughout the park. Hopefully its more than just Jungle Hijinx...lol

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

DK Theme park soundtrack LEAKED:


Jungle Hijinx (DKC)
Token Tango (DKC2)
Stampede Sprint (DKC3 GBA)
Jungle Japes (DK64)
King of Cling (DKCR)
Palmtree Groove (DKCR)
Swinger Flinger (DKCTF)
Bopopolis (DKCTF)

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

DK Theme park soundtrack LEAKED:


Jungle Hijinx (DKC)
Token Tango (DKC2)
Stampede Sprint (DKC3 GBA)
Jungle Japes (DK64)
King of Cling (DKCR)
Palmtree Groove (DKCR)
Swinger Flinger (DKCTF)
Bopopolis (DKCTF)

Dont forget Dawn Savanna (DKJB), DK Jungle (MK7/8), and DK Park/Stadium (Mario Super Sluggers).

 

[Planet Cool]

How many of those "Metroid fans" that lost it when Tropical Freeze was announced have actually played a Metroid game before? It seemed like it was mostly angry Wii U owners that felt like they were owed a HARDCORE game that could compete with Uncharted and Halo, as if that somehow would have saved the Wii U. I love both DK and Metroid by the way, pitting them against each other was always really dumb. It kind of is a shame Retro isn't able to develop both series simultaneously, at least as far as we know.

That's a good point and something I hadn't considered. Some Nintendo fans are very insecure about Nintendo's "family-friendly" or "kiddy" image. (Look at the reaction to that new TV ad for Super Mario 3D World that shows a family playing together.) But it's silly... Nintendo haters aren't going to change their minds because of Metroid Prime. The GameCube had two and it still sold like crap. And that console was actually more powerful and had nicer graphics than the competition.

But as one of the three people that bought a Wii U and think it's a pretty good console, nothing could've made me happier than Tropical Freeze.

Donkey Kong is an odd beast in that its never really gone away, but fell prey to the company often resisting its strongest potential output, perhaps to make it better fit in with the rest of the Nintendo line-up. As noted the GBA brought back new 2D Metroid titles in a big way, and there's no reason Nintendo couldn't have done the same with DK. The GBA remakes were fine but there was a low risk opportunity to push the series forward on a successful console that they ultimately didn't take advantage of. That's not even getting into the decade long focus on the Mario vs Donkey Kong series (most of which were on very popular systems) which demonstrated that there was interest in DK adjacent titles, but only ones where he was the antagonist.

According to legend (meaning that there's a source, but I can't find it), the team at Rare that ported the DKC trilogy to GBA actually offered to make "DKC4," but Nintendo turned them down because they wanted to bring the series back on console at a later date. I don't see why we couldn't have two new DKCs back then, but oh well.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

So anyone here play Diddy Kong Racing recently?

No. But I plan to replay it in the next few days. I always play as Banjo through the whole run and get all the balloons, complete all the trophy races, ect 100%.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

The Gamecube sold around twice as much as the Wii U. The U had a few or couple great titles here and there like Tropical Freeze and Bayonetta 2, but compared to the library the Gamecube offered... It wasn't even close. Not talking about just Metroid either; it was the last time we saw F-Zero and a not insignificant number of other IPs that went to a graveyard and stayed there from the Wii and onward. The worst you can say for the GC is the experimental era that DK went through, but it still came back, while the GC was the last time a certain chunk of IPs saw the light of day. The GC is also retroactively appreciated for being the last system before Nintendo changed its design philosophy to appeal to the more casual audience, and the last time they took the hardware race more seriously with the GC having been one of the most powerful consoles at the time as pointed out, but it was also when Nintendo failed to maintain relationships with Rare and other Western teams, so it's a mixed bag.

But I don't think the Gamecube deserves being lumped with the Wii U as some utter failure like I often see. At the same time though, I agree it's retroactively overhyped by those that mostly grew up with it; the Nintendo youtubers and such that you see now (who also unfortunately don't see the same appeal for DK as we do since they grew up when it was experimented on unlike others that had Rare growing up). Gamecube deserves a lot of the arguments it's got going on its end, especially with the early 2000's being when the Nintendo online community first really grew and nurtured, but isn't the best era or peak Nintendo like many of them now claim. That honor still goes to SNES.

Oh, many of those I still see who champion the Gamecube mainly just talk about Melee and Sunshine, not so much the other more underrated gems which the library was rich with. Feels like the system is both underrated and overrated.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

The Gamecube did about the same numbers as the original Xbox, it only looks like a failure compared to the massively successful PS2:

 

[Justin Little]

I really liked the GameCube, but without a proper Donkey Kong or Kirby game, as good as they were, I can't on good conscious call it Nintendo at their peak. While I enjoyed it, I also think Mario Sunshine was a disappointment. My favorite games on the system are as follows:

1. Metroid Prime
2. LoZ Wind Waker
3. Super Smash Bros. Melee
4. MGS Twin Snakes
5. Star Fox Adventures

The latter two are controversial, but I don't care. I love them. I guess the GameCube is better than the Wii U since I could only consider Tropical Freeze, Bayonetta 2, and 3D World as 5/5 games.

The SNES can't be topped imo. There are so many 5/5 games I could list: DKC trilogy, Super Mario World/All-stars, A Link to the Past, Super Metroid, Megaman X, Super Street Fighter 2, Earthbound, Final Fantasy 6, Demons Crest, Ganbare Goemon 2, Super Bonk, Kirby Super Star, Yoshi's Island etc. I could go on.

The 64 and Wii are probably my second and third favorite Nintendo systems, but I don't think they are peak Nintendo. Now the Switch could potentially be one of the top dogs if we get a new DK and Metroid, all of which seems like a guarantee.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

What hurt the Gamecube was its severe lack of Dixie. Though to be fair, it had more Dixie than the N64.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Oh, many of those I still see who champion the Gamecube mainly just talk about Melee and Sunshine, not so much the other more underrated gems which the library was rich with. Feels like the system is both underrated and overrated.

WhichI don't get since while Melee and Sunshine are great games, the GameCube had a treasure chest full of gems besides those titles like:

Wind Waker
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Animal Crossing
Metroid Prime
Metroid Prime 2: Echos
Mario Party 4
Mario Party 5
Mario Party 6
Mario Party 7
Soul Calibur 2
Bloody Roar
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2
Star Fox: Adventures
Star Fox: Assault
Pokemon: Colosseum
Pokemon: Colosseum 2
Pokemon: Gale of Darkness
Wario World
Kirby Air Ride
Spongebob: Battle for Bikini Bottom
Spongebob: Movie Game
Tak
Tak 2
Resident Evil 4
Billy Hatcher & the Giant Egg
Custom Robo

Ect, ect. I can go on as I literally grew up with all these titles.

What hurt the Gamecube was its severe lack of Dixie. Though to be fair, it had more Dixie than the N64.

The GameCube severely lacked DKC in general.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

What's telling is that Gamecube's greatest successes typically were in the multiplayer department; Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Party, the sports spin-offs, Star Fox Assault, and even Kirby's Air Ride. But as someone who was a fan at the time, even though many single player series did manage to get a rebirth or a coming out that did work via Metroid with Prime or Animal Crossing coming to the States, I couldn't help but note that many of the major single player games weren't really the successors that I personally wanted.

Mario Sunshine was fine but still feels outdone by Mario 64 and Galaxy. Wind Waker has improved with time, but its rushed nature means it never completely lived up to its potential. Neither Adventures nor Assault felt like the leap forward in rail shooting mechanics from SF64. Yoshi and Kirby never even got mainline games on the system. The problems with DK have been greatly noted, Thousand Year Door is notable in being the exception and succeeded as an outright improvement on what came before (and given what's happened to the series since, one wonders if that was almost a fluke).

Basically while a lot of spin-offs were thriving with some of their best entries, some of the big pillars were getting mixed results with their entries, hence why the system has maintained a mixed reputation but with an overwhelming positive image of multiplayer fun.

 

[Justin Little]

Crap! I totally forgot about RE4. It's been ported over so many times I forgot it was once exclusive. I played that version too. Let's see:

1. Metroid Prime
2. Resident Evil 4
3. LoZ Wind Waker
4. Super Smash Bros. Melee
5. MGS Twin Snakes
6. Star Fox Adventures

You think for a game I love so much I wouldn't forget to include it.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

I dont think their is a such thing as "peak" Nintendo the closest would probably be the SNES but still every generation has its peaks and valleys or strengths and weaknesses. Nintendo has so much IP that not a single generation can get every single franchise so if you're a fan of said franchise and said franchise doesnt appear or is lackluster on that said generation it probably wont be considered "peak" to you. Also nostalgia admittedly plays a big part in said opinion of yours.

I grew up during the N64 era but had a hand me down SNES. So I played N64 and SNES at the same time. I didnt get fully invested into games until the GCN era. Wii was what opened my eyes to Nintendo's other wealth of IP through Brawl and VC outside of just Mario and DK and was the first Nintendo console where I owned almost every 1st party title. DS was my first handheld Nintendo system I owned. Wii U I was there since almost the beginning and owned almost every 1st party game released on the platform. 3DS had a wealth of 1st party games in multiple classic franchises (except DK and F-Zero). Switch was the very first console I ever got on launch and payed for myself.

I have great memories with every Nintendo console to some extent but no Nintendo system is perfect so yeah their is no true "Peak" in my eyes.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean the SNES will always be the one I think was strongest across the board (great entries for Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, F-Zero, Kirby, Yoshi, Punch-Out, DKC) with strong third party support to boot. However the explosion of spin-off series hadn't really happened yet and newer franchises hadn't come into existence, so someone who loves Pokémon, party titles, or multiplayer emphasized games? I couldn't blame them looking at the Super Nintendo and finding it lacking in that respect.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

While I played my share of the SNES and love the console for it's classics like "Super Mario World" and Donkey Kong Country" The Nintendo 64 was my first ever video game console and while I'll admit I'm a little bias, But where the N64 lacks in major 3rd party support more than makes up for it with a formidable 1st/2nd party lineup that I believe packs a more powerful punch overall than not just the SNES, But in any Nintendo console ever in my personal opinion.

I now a lot of people point towards the SNES as having the best all-around and balance in not only having strong 1st party, But also strong 3rd party as well.

But Nintendo and Rareware did all the heavy lifting during the N64 era, While Rare made a name for themselves back in the SNES with DKC and Killer Instinct, They really hit their stride during the N64 era with platformers like Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie, Donkey Kong 64 and Conker's Bad Fur Day, shooters like Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark and even their take on the kart racer with Diddy Kong Racing, As someone who (Other than a few exceptions) doesn't really cares about 3rd party games all that much, I felt like I didn't lose anything because Nintendo/Rare had me covered.

The N64 alongside the Gameboy had the debut of a major franchise in Pokemon, Pokemon played such a vital part of my childhood that it's hard for me to picture that there was a time that this major Nintendo franchise didn't even exist Pre-N64 era. I played Pokemon so much on both the N64/GBC that I really didn't care that the N64 lacked JRPG support because Pokemon is the only JRPG I really gave a damn about.

Not to mention the N64 was the ultimate multiplayer system where Mario spinoffs really took off with not just continuations of Mario Kart 64 and the debut of other staples like Mario Party, Mario Tennis and of course Super Smash Bros, Can't also forget Rare for bringing us Goldeneye 007 multiplayer too.

This is just my experience as someone who grew up during the N64/Gamecube era, But also played and respects what came before it, I do own both NES and SNES Classic consoles too, But overall view the Nintendo 64 as not just the greatest Nintendo console, But the best video game console of all time period.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I wouldn't say any Nintendo console has a weak library (the Wii U is suffering a bit from most of its best games being ported to Switch though).

My personal opinion is that the N64 has the games I love the most: Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Star Fox 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Banjo-Kazooie, probably more I'm forgetting. Most of these are games I grew up with and are very close to my heart. While I didn't grow up with Banjo-Kazooie, it's a game I wanted to play since I was a kid and reminds me a lot of those games, so I consider it a newer favorite.

But like, if I was stranded on a desert island and I had to pick one game library to hold me over, the Gamecube is it. This system has an almost-overwhelming number of games I like and often still play regularly: Melee, Kirby Air Ride, the Tony Hawk series, Battle for Bikini Bottom, Sonic Adventure 2, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, Zelda Collector's Edition (yes I know that's cheating), Metroid Prime, even some of the "weaker" entries like Mario Sunshine or Star Fox Assault are games I like playing now and then.

If anything I'd say the Wii is the Nintendo system that appealed to me the least. It's not for a lack of great games, but more so the time in my life that it was relevant. I was a teenager when it released, struggling with depression for most of its life cycle, and a lot of my memories of the console are tainted by cynicism. Still had some good times with it though, the Virtual Console had a lot of cool stuff, and I remember having good times playing Brawl and Mega Man 9 & 10.

None of this has anything to do with Dixie Kong btw. Whoops.

 

[Planet Cool]

The Gamecube sold around twice as much as the Wii U. The U had a few or couple great titles here and there like Tropical Freeze and Bayonetta 2, but compared to the library the Gamecube offered... It wasn't even close. Not talking about just Metroid either; it was the last time we saw F-Zero and a not insignificant number of other IPs that went to a graveyard and stayed there from the Wii and onward. The worst you can say for the GC is the experimental era that DK went through, but it still came back, while the GC was the last time a certain chunk of IPs saw the light of day. The GC is also retroactively appreciated for being the last system before Nintendo changed its design philosophy to appeal to the more casual audience, and the last time they took the hardware race more seriously with the GC having been one of the most powerful consoles at the time as pointed out, but it was also when Nintendo failed to maintain relationships with Rare and other Western teams, so it's a mixed bag.

But I don't think the Gamecube deserves being lumped with the Wii U as some utter failure like I often see. At the same time though, I agree it's retroactively overhyped by those that mostly grew up with it; the Nintendo youtubers and such that you see now (who also unfortunately don't see the same appeal for DK as we do since they grew up when it was experimented on unlike others that had Rare growing up). Gamecube deserves a lot of the arguments it's got going on its end, especially with the early 2000's being when the Nintendo online community first really grew and nurtured, but isn't the best era or peak Nintendo like many of them now claim. That honor still goes to SNES.

Oh, many of those I still see who champion the Gamecube mainly just talk about Melee and Sunshine, not so much the other more underrated gems which the library was rich with. Feels like the system is both underrated and overrated.

The GameCube wasn't as big a failure as the Wii U because nothing was as big a failure as the Wii U except the Virtual Boy, but it was definitely considered a sales disappointment and had a bad rep in general, at least back then.

And while the Wii U did have serious problems like bad hardware, poor third-party support and absolutely terrible marketing, I think people undersell it. Its first-party library is pretty great. Besides the games you mentioned, you had stuff like Mario 3D World (a top-three Mario in my opinion, even though no one agrees with me), Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World and Pikmin 3, not to mention those amazing Zelda remakes, the Virtual Console and backwards compatibility with the Wii. Outside of being a sales disaster, it wasn't a bad machine.

Gonna come clean, though: I don't love the GameCube. It's my least favorite Nintendo console. Maybe it's that I was hitting puberty and having a bad time with life in general, but I don't think back on it too fondly. The only GameCube games I truly loved were Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Thousand-Year Door. There's other good stuff on it, but I don't really go back to it like the SNES, N64 or even the Wii.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

SNES didn't really have weaknesses to speak of for its time, and it perfected 2D gaming. Am I wrong there? Its rounded library of 1st and 3rd party I don't see ever being topped either, even though I give Metroid Prime somewhat an edge over Super Metroid for example.

But yeah, with 3D gaming it's not so cut and dry, and respect any opinion like yours with the 64 there (@ ChunkySlugger and whoever). Personally I liked the 64 and Gamecube about the same for what their libraries and experience gave me, even though Rare did all the lifting for the former as pointed out. Pokemon I grew up with like that too, but is not something I care much for anymore, though I am looking forward to the new Snap. A niche spinoff like Pokemon Snap coming back with a sequel 20+ years later is a sure sign as any for "never say never" on dreams like another Diddy Kong Racing or something, if nothing else.

On the Wii U, while its library did me the least favors overall (not awful or anything on its own for what it is, but lacking compared to my game collection of every previous Nintendo console), I did like its hardware better than the Wii's for what it's worth, and agree that its virtual console compensated a good bit, particularly with it being the last system to have a VC for the time being. It gave me another chance to have some things like Donkey Kong 64, since my original cartrige was eventually given away along with some old games.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

If I had to choose a single Nintendo system its hands down the Wii. Look at this 1st party line-up:

Spoiler: Spoiler

- Super Mario Galaxy

• Super Mario Galaxy 2
• New Super Mario Bros. Wii
• Donkey Kong Country Returns
• Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
• Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
• Metroid Prime Trilogy
• Metroid: Other M
• Super Smash Bros. Brawl
• Excite Truck
• Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
• The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
• Animal Crossing: City Folk
• Wario Land: Shake It
• Punch-Out!!
• Mario Kart Wii
• Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
• Mario Strikers Charged
• WarioWare: Smooth Moves
• Mario Party 8
• Mario Party 9
• Kirby's Return to Dreamland
• Xenoblade Chronicles
• Pokepark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
• Pokepark 2: Wonders Beyond
• Mario Sports Mix
• NPC: Mario Power Tennis
• NPC: Pikmin
• NPC: Pikmin 2
• Wii Sports
• Super Paper Mario
• Wii Sports Resort
• Excitebots: Trick Racing
• Pokemon Battle Revolution
• Rhythm Heaven Fever
• Flingsmash
• Batallion Wars 2
• The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
• Wii Play
• Wii Play: Motion
• Wii Fit Plus
• Wii Music
• Link's Crossbow Training
• Kirby's Epic Yarn
• Mario Super Sluggers
• Fortune Street
• Wii Party
• Endless Ocean
• Endless Ocean 2

^ There was so much variety on the Wii when it came to IP. Not to mention Wii is backwards compatible with GCN AND before the servers were shut down you had an amazing VC service. Wii was definitely (at the time) the Ultimate Nintendo machine i.e. your one stop shop for most home console Nintendo games. I'm so glad Smash Bros. Brawl opened my eyes to Nintendo IP. I wish I still had my Wii as well as all those 1st party games I listed for it...

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I'm still waiting and for the day that Nintendo announces/releases the "Nintendo 64 Classic Edition".

It looked likely couple years ago after the NES and SNES classic, But it looks like unfortunately Nintendo used those as "Stop Gaps" after the failure of the Wii U to hold them over financially until the Switch arrived.

I really would have thought Nintendo would have countered back in 2018/2019 with the N64 Classic when Sony announced the Playstation Classic (Which I also own), But unfortunately that was not the case.

With the this year being the N64 25th Anniversary it would be nice if Nintendo would release it this Holiday season with Rareware games too, But more likely see them releasing N64 Online for the Switch which is still pretty cool, But would rather have a mini modern HDMI supporting console like the NES and SNES Classic despite still owning my childhood original N64.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I think there are several reasons the Nintendo 64 Mini never came to pass.

1. No feasible options for technology that could emulate the games at the quality expected of a Nintendo product while still being affordable to mass-produce. Something like the Raspberry Pi, which the NES and SNES Classics run on, could run N64 games, but it would require a lot of sacrifices to be made to emulation accuracy, and some games do worse than others. Something more powerful, plus custom code to run specific games optimally like they did on the Wii, would make a much better product, but would be much more expensive and time-consuming.

2. They'd have to make new N64-style controllers, which I feel like they wouldn't want to do on account of Mario Party blisters. Plus the extra plastic and analog stick probably makes them more expensive to produce. They could do a modified design, but since these things are geared towards nostalgia, they may feel that kind of change cheapens the experience.

3. Licensing issues. Quite a few of the N64's most memorable games were the result of Rare. Honestly I feel like this is the least likely reason for there not being an N64 Mini since Microsoft seems pretty cooperative, but maybe they have a different attitude when it comes to mini consoles. In any case, Goldeneye is licensing hell regardless, and that's a big part of the N64's legacy.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm still waiting and for the day that Nintendo announces/releases the "Nintendo 64 Classic Edition".

It looked likely couple years ago after the NES and SNES classic, But it looks like unfortunately Nintendo used those as "Stop Gaps" after the failure of the Wii U to hold them over financially until the Switch arrived.

I really would have thought Nintendo would have countered back in 2018/2019 with the N64 Classic when Sony announced the Playstation Classic (Which I also own), But unfortunately that was not the case.

With the this year being the N64 25th Anniversary it would be nice if Nintendo would release it this Holiday season with Rareware games too, But more likely see them releasing N64 Online for the Switch which is still pretty cool, But would rather have a mini modern HDMI supporting console like the NES and SNES Classic despite still owning my childhood original N64.

Sometimes, I feel like Nintendo doesn't give a **** about us N64 fans. There were certain titles they never added to the Virtual Console back in the day like Mario Party 1 and 3, Bomberman 64: The Second Attack, Mystical Ninja: Starting Goemon, Goemon's Great Adventure and Mischief Makers plus the N64 Virtual Console only being limited to around 20 games. We still don't have N64 games on Switch Online. We still don't have the N64 Classic yet. Sometimes, I feel like Nintendo ignores us because they see the N64 as a failure because of them spending most of their money and resources on the N64DD back then which was a failure which cancelled more than half of the N64's library, slowed down the development process for most N64 games that did get release since a lot of them were originally developed on the N64DD and than cut in half in size when moved to the normal N64 and Nintendo in general putting too much time into that ambitious machine that never went anywhere for them. The N64DD mind you.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Basically the N64 is Nintendo's Saturn in that its a pain to emulate and lacks the same popularity as the console that came before it; to the point where I think Nintendo is satisfied doing some select Virtual Console releases or very select inclusions in releases like Super Mario 3D All Stars. I mean there's easy money in releasing further compilations for Switch (Mario Tennis+Golf, Mario Party 2+3, F-Zero X+Mario Kart 64) and there's never been a hint of something like that by the company.

 

[Spatman]

The Gamecube did about the same numbers as the original Xbox, it only looks like a failure compared to the massively successful PS2:

View attachment 301703

even if the biggest reason of the low numbers of the other two (three, counting Dreamcast) is the massive success of PS2, less than 25 millions is a failure... even comparing to almost all consoles of other generations, it's a too low number of sales

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Something that has to be understood is that the DVD player ability was a major factor for the PS2's (and the Xbox to a lesser extent) big success, and likely contributed Gamecube's sales struggles. That two for one purchase (and Sony having a year head start) right as DVDs were getting big meant it was an obvious choice to adults and families. Nintendo's lack of one (in combination with a growing belief that certain franchises wouldn't end up on the console) diminished its appeal a lot.

The other major thing is that the gaming market in terms of demographics had shifted a great deal and it ended up hitting Nintendo hard. Even with the N64 the appeal of a Mario or Zelda 64 could mean a lot of strong sales, at least in the West. But stuff like the platformer wasn't grabbing fans nearly as much, and the promise of sleek mature games and various genres that Nintendo hasn't really courted made it the odd man out in an era where stuff like GTA was dominating the sales charts. While it could match or even surpass the PS2 or Xbox in hardware, the image problem was too ingrained, and its strengths in first party output were completely unaligned with where gaming was at that point.

A lot of the decisions of Nintendo with consoles in the last 15 years can be rooted in the third place finish for Nintendo in this time. They didn't have a weaker format, weren't lacking in power, and even had stronger third party support than the generation previous... and it still wasn't enough. The novelty of the Wii, Wii-U, and Switch is essentially them deciding to play by their own rules with consoles, for better or for worse.

 

[Dinoman96]

The GCN is kinda like Nintendo's weird edgy teenager years that they obviously don't look back at too fondly lol

Unfortunately I feel like that's what led to some of their series being sterilized over the years, like Paper Mario (most Mario spinoffs in general, really) and Star Fox.