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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

Akg0001

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Diddy still has a tail attack and those changes up in your post is why she has to break away from being an echo to bring properly represented, also they said we're not getting echoes as dlc(I don't believe any fan theories until proven otherwise by the devs) so that's relying on false hope from my perspective at this point.
Forgot about the tail attack. But still even without that move too, you can call her echo with all these changes. I mean look at ken lol. She would still be more echo than ken.

Also wasnt it worded like: no echoes in the fighters pass? We could still get echoes for free. Or an echoes fighter pass or something like that.

I know there is little chance we get more echoes but sakurai would make so many people happy with little effort. I am sure most of us smash fans would buy them all.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Forgot about the tail attack. But still even without that move too, you can call her echo with all these changes. I mean look at ken lol. She would still be more echo than ken.

Also wasnt it worded like: no echoes in the fighters pass? We could still get echoes for free. Or an echoes fighter pass or something like that.

I know there is little chance we get more echoes but sakurai would make so many people happy with little effort. I am sure most of us smash fans would buy them all.
They said the remaining five dlc characters will not be echoes and I'm not believing any fan theories that the devs have not confirmed.

Also I don't really have any interest in buying echoes personally since they're just reskins with minor differences and I wouldn't want to see Dixie treated in such manner.

From my perspective she must be made into a unique or semi clone(not an echo) or she's not coming at all and I'm not going to change my view on that.
 

Koopaul

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It's possible in the future a cheaper fighter pack that just has echoes in it might happen. Balancing all these characters is hard. And I can't imagine the team is willing to keep up the pace forever. Offering some echo fighters for cheap would be a way to keep the content coming without too much work.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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It's possible in the future a cheaper fighter pack that just has echoes in it might happen. Balancing all these characters is hard. And I can't imagine the team is willing to keep up the pace forever. Offering some echo fighters for cheap would be a way to keep the content coming without too much work.
They already stated that the remaining characters won't be echoes and I really don't have interest in buying reskins I'll probably never use especially when seeing them as such would only have me underwhelmed like how I feel about Daisy in this game.
 
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ZelDan

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They already stated that the remaining characters won't be echoes and I really don't have interest in buying reskins I'll probably never use especially when seeing them as such would only have me underwhelmed like how I feel about Daisy in this game.
I think they were just talking about characters within the first fighter's pass, not any hypothetical future DLC characters beyond the first fighter's pass.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Like you said "to each their own" and some people may not be satisfied with that idea.
Tell that to InaSnowBoundLand.

Anyways, I think most can agree
Unique/Semiclone Dixie >>> Echo Dixie >>> No Dixie

If I could live with her as a Mii Costume then I can live with her as an echo, preferably as a Ken/Chrom style one. Of course I'd want her to be completely unique or at the very minimum like Isabelle/Lucas/Wolf. But better she at least gets the prestige of being playable at all, she's not nearly as big as Waluigi to have legions of fans screaming his name throughout the fandom.

And this is all repeating, but the fact that she wasn't just made an echo like Dark Samus lessens her chance of being one for DLC. If they did want to make her an echo she probably would be in the base game by now. And if they didn't want to make echoes for DLC she would have to be like Isabelle/Lucas/Wolf at minimum.
 
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Planet Cool

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Unique Dixie > Semi-clone Dixie > Echo Dixie > No Dixie > Dixie as part of an Ice Climbers-style "tag team" with Diddy
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Tell that to InaSnowBoundLand.

Anyways, I think we can all agree
Unique/Semiclone Dixie >>> Echo Dixie >>> No Dixie

If I could live with her as a Mii Costume then I can live with her as an echo, preferably as a Ken/Chrom style one. Of course I'd want her to be completely unique or at the very minimum like Isabelle/Lucas/Wolf. But better she at least gets the prestige of being playable at all, she's not nearly as big as Waluigi to have legions of fans screaming his name throughout the fandom.

And this is all repeating, but the fact that she wasn't just made an echo like Dark Samus lessens her chance of being one for DLC. If they did want to make her an echo she probably would be in the base game by now. And if they didn't want to make echoes for DLC she would have to be like Isabelle/Lucas/Wolf at minimum.
I disagree, for me the echo idea would be too disappointing and underwhelming to see her like that for me especially since I already feel underwhelmed with Daisy. I've already said that I rather not have her than an echo I'm not going to happy playing as.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I don't think Dixie as an Echo is an intrinsically bad idea, but what does make it worse is the fact that Sakurai won't change her initial moveset ever. The dude's really stupid in that regard. So the question becomes whether to have her now as an Echo and be done with it, or to wait for her to be able to be unique. That really depends on how willing you are to wait, and how good her chances are to be unique down the line.
 

Planet Cool

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At this point I'm more concerned about Dixie getting in at all than about her being perfectly represented. Chrom and Ken have shown us that characters can differ considerably from their inspirations and still "count" as Echoes, so a Dixie Echo would probably still have some moves where she uses her ponytail, and that would be fine by me. Although a semi-clone like Isabelle would still be preferable.
 

Mushroomguy12

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I disagree, for me the echo idea would be too disappointing and underwhelming to see her like that for me especially since I already feel underwhelmed with Daisy. I've already said that I rather not have her than an echo I'm not going to happy playing as.
Playability is the most important part. The difference between a character and an assist trophy, a character and a spirit, a character and a Mii Costume. Playable characters are broadcast to the masses and the general public, to millions of people who aren't heavily invested in Nintendo. Everything else that falls below playability is ignored and fades into obscurity outside of their dedicated fandoms. The only exception to this is Waluigi, who's only been able to escape this due to his star power in other Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, which sells better than Smash anyway. Dixie doesn't have that screaming fanbase that Ridley and K. Rool had to launch her into Sakurai's view.

Dixie being playable means she gets to be introduced to millions of fans, she gets a place in fan art, fan animations, comics, tournament scenes, official promotions, her influence spreads considerably and she gets an incredible boost of stardom. Look at K. Rool and Dark Samus and what Smash did for them. Look at what Smash did for Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus.

Yes, gameplay is important. But it is not the only factor. I'd rather she get in at any means necessary.

Her being a full echo is incredibly unlikely anyway, she wouldn't be Daisy-tier, but more Chrom/Ken tier at the very least anyway.


I don't think Dixie as an Echo is an intrinsically bad idea, but what does make it worse is the fact that Sakurai won't change her initial moveset ever. The dude's really stupid in that regard. So the question becomes whether to have her now as an Echo and be done with it, or to wait for her to be able to be unique. That really depends on how willing you are to wait, and how good her chances are to be unique down the line.
I don't want to wait for the next game, that's for sure. I want her to be in the Ultimate roster with no cuts.

See what happened to Krystal? Everyone thought she was a shoo in for Smash 4. Then her popularity waned and now she's lucky to get in as an Assist Trophy.

Pretty dangerous to assume Dixie's popularity won't wane even further. Even in this DLC cycle her place among fan polls dropped considerably, to the point she's losing to characters that used to be far below her. Characters that have all the same points against Dixie when it comes to DLC, some characters that have even more against them, are now all winning against Dixie.

Honestly, even now, we're just repeating the exact same arguments we've had months prior because there literally is nothing to talk about. Other characters get their leaks and hints and enormous dicussions and fan requests and Dixie barely has anything in terms of contemporary speculation and discussion in the community. Part of the reason some people here are OK with her being an echo is that that is literally the only time she appears on anyone's "wants" lists these days, as part of a potential echo fighter's pass. I hate to see her being ignored again and again, but alas, we should be more vocal outside of this base if we want this to change.


Also I don’t think stupidity is a part of it as much as the fact that the roster is so enormous at this point that adding new characters and bringing back so many old ones just takes so much time in it of itself that changing every character’s movesets might not fit in time constraints. And despite this, several characters did have their movesets updated from Smash 4 to Ultimate.

At this point I'm more concerned about Dixie getting in at all than about her being perfectly represented. Chrom and Ken have shown us that characters can differ considerably from their inspirations and still "count" as Echoes, so a Dixie Echo would probably still have some moves where she uses her ponytail, and that would be fine by me. Although a semi-clone like Isabelle would still be preferable.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Also I don’t think stupidity is a part of it as much as the fact that the roster is so enormous at this point that adding new characters and bringing back so many old ones just takes so much time in it of itself that changing every character’s movesets might not fit in time constraints.
The return of characters has nothing to do with movesets staying the same. Sakurai has outright stated that he doesn't want to change characters' movesets because he doesn't want to alienate their fans. Which imo is a terrible way to approach fighting game design because you have to stick to whatever mistakes you've made for no reason.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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Playability is the most important part. The difference between a character and an assist trophy, a character and a spirit, a character and a Mii Costume. Playable characters are broadcast to the masses and the general public, to millions of people who aren't heavily invested in Nintendo. Everything else that falls below playability is ignored and fades into obscurity outside of their dedicated fandoms. The only exception to this is Waluigi, who's only been able to escape this due to his star power in other Mario spin offs like Mario Kart, which sells better than Smash anyway. Dixie doesn't have that screaming fanbase that Ridley and K. Rool had to launch her into Sakurai's view.

Dixie being playable means she gets to be introduced to millions of fans, she gets a place in fan art, fan animations, comics, tournament scenes, official promotions, her influence spreads considerably and she gets an incredible boost of stardom. Look at K. Rool and Dark Samus and what Smash did for them. Look at what Smash did for Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus.

Yes, gameplay is important. But it is not the only factor. I'd rather she get in at any means necessary.

Her being a full echo is incredibly unlikely anyway, she wouldn't be Daisy-tier, but more Chrom/Ken tier at the very least anyway.



I don't want to wait for the next game, that's for sure. I want her to be in the Ultimate roster with no cuts.

See what happened to Krystal? Everyone thought she was a shoo in for Smash 4. Then her popularity waned and now she's lucky to get in as an Assist Trophy.

Pretty dangerous to assume Dixie's popularity won't wane even further. Even in this DLC cycle her place among fan polls dropped considerably, to the point she's losing to characters that used to be far below her. Characters that have all the same points against Dixie when it comes to DLC, some characters that have even more against them, are now all winning against Dixie.

Honestly, even now, we're just repeating the exact same arguments we've had months prior because there literally is nothing to talk about. Other characters get their leaks and hints and enormous dicussions and fan requests and Dixie literally has nothing. Part of the reason some people here are OK with her being an echo is that that is literally the only time she appears on anyone's "wants" lists these days, as part of a potential echo fighter's pass. I hate to see her being ignored again and again, but alas, we should be more vocal outside of this base if we want this to change.


Also I don’t think stupidity is a part of it as much as the fact that the roster is so enormous at this point that adding new characters and bringing back so many old ones just takes so much time in it of itself that changing every character’s movesets might not fit in time constraints. And despite this, several characters did have their movesets updated from Smash 4 to Ultimate.



Couldn't have said it better myself.
Being playable doesn't mean anything if they aren't probably represented in my opinion(or I don't enjoy playing as them), like I said I'm never going to change my view on this. The Chrom/Ken level of differences still doesn't sound appealing to me, I've always view her beyond that point. You can't make everyone believe the same level as you, besides I'm not desperate to have her in since I love Ultimate to death as it is already.

Also I'm not expecting her to part of the dlc pack and if that's the case then I'll still live on, it's not the end of the world if she's absent but I still want to support for her future other games too besides than just Smash.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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While i rank DKC3 lowest of all DKC games +64 and JB, i still think it's a good game. Better than most of mario platformers except smb3 and smw.
For me and most of my friends who have played DKC3 it's 7-8/10 game.
What has surprised me is my kids don't like DKC3. They have played DKC1/2/3 and Returns and they like Returns the most. They said DKC1 is odd but fun, DKC2 is too dark and DKC3 is boring.
This is probably my personal opinion, but I think DKC3 is better than DK64 by a mile.

I don't want to wait for the next game, that's for sure. I want her to be in the Ultimate roster with no cuts.

See what happened to Krystal? Everyone thought she was a shoo in for Smash 4. Then her popularity waned and now she's lucky to get in as an Assist Trophy.

Pretty dangerous to assume Dixie's popularity won't wane even further. Even in this DLC cycle her place among fan polls dropped considerably, to the point she's losing to characters that used to be far below her. Characters that have all the same points against Dixie when it comes to DLC, some characters that have even more against them, are now all winning against Dixie.

Honestly, even now, we're just repeating the exact same arguments we've had months prior because there literally is nothing to talk about. Other characters get their leaks and hints and enormous dicussions and fan requests and Dixie literally has nothing. Part of the reason some people here are OK with her being an echo is that that is literally the only time she appears on anyone's "wants" lists these days, as part of a potential echo fighter's pass. I hate to see her being ignored again and again, but alas, we should be more vocal outside of this base if we want this to change.


Also I don’t think stupidity is a part of it as much as the fact that the roster is so enormous at this point that adding new characters and bringing back so many old ones just takes so much time in it of itself that changing every character’s movesets might not fit in time constraints. And despite this, several characters did have their movesets updated from Smash 4 to Ultimate.
Thing is though, Dixie is in much, much more comfortable and safer place than Krystal or K. Rool use to be because she is relevant in her franchise. Support will probably stay strong for Dixie unlike Krystal because she still has a presence in her franchise. Not saying she is going to rise to the top in the polls, but however popular or more popular Dixie get's, it's going to stay that way and she ain't going down. There is no going backwards for her, it's either she stays in the top 20 or she advances to the top 10.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Thing is though, Dixie is in much, much more comfortable and safer place than Krystal or K. Rool use to be because she is relevant in her franchise. Support will probably stay strong for Dixie unlike Krystal because she still has a presence in her franchise. Not saying she is going to rise to the top in the polls, but however popular or more popular Dixie get's, it's going to stay that way and she ain't going down. There is no going backwards for her, it's either she stays in the top 20 or she advances to the top 10.
I hope you're right and those online polls I posted before were just inaccurate.

Joker was 49th in one of the r/smashbros polls taken before so these polls clearly don't even have bearing on these choices anyhow. All we can do is wait and see.
 

Dinoman96

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It's also worth noting that the DK franchise itself is in a better position than Star Fox currently is.

I think a lot of the hype for Krystal during the Brawl era was because Star Fox was an active franchise that was receiving new games basically every other year, abeit of questionable quality. Naturally that sprung interest in there being a third Star Fox rep. Though, ultimately, Wolf ended up taking that spot.

But after Command, the franchise went into limbo for basically a decade and didn't receive a new original installment until Zero in 2016...which was a bust, both critically and commercially, and now at this point, not many people really care about the IP at the moment. So long as DK keeps thriving, Dixie's fanbase could still be strong going forward.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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I hope you're right and those online polls I posted before were just inaccurate.

Joker was 49th in one of the r/smashbros polls taken before so these polls clearly don't even have bearing on these choices anyhow. All we can do is wait and see.
Any polls are just as inaccurate as Source Gaming's giant collective data poll. If they were anywhere close to being right about that poll, where was Bayonetta and Simon? Sakurai said they got in due to their amazing performance in the Ballot. If that poll or any polls were correct, Bayonetta and Simon should have been high up there in polls with Ridley and K. Rool.
 
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Planet Cool

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Being playable doesn't mean anything if they aren't probably represented in my opinion(or I don't enjoy playing as them), like I said I'm never going to change my view on this.
I mean, it's cool that you want Dixie to be unique (God knows I do too), but saying "I'm never going to change my mind!" over and over again makes you sound close-minded and not interested in other people's arguments, which is pretty lame.
 

Arymle Roseanne

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I mean, it's cool that you want Dixie to be unique (God knows I do too), but saying "I'm never going to change my mind!" over and over again makes you sound close-minded and not interested in other people's arguments, which is pretty lame.
I'm just saying I'm not going to be convinced on that idea, no need to be rude about it.
 

Troykv

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It's also worth noting that the DK franchise itself is in a better position than Star Fox currently is.

I think a lot of the hype for Krystal during the Brawl era was because Star Fox was an active franchise that was receiving new games basically every other year, abeit of questionable quality. Naturally that sprung interest in there being a third Star Fox rep. Though, ultimately, Wolf ended up taking that spot.

But after Command, the franchise went into limbo for basically a decade and didn't receive a new original installment until Zero in 2016...which was a bust, both critically and commercially, and now at this point, not many people really care about the IP at the moment. So long as DK keeps thriving, Dixie's fanbase could still be strong going forward.
At this point I feel Star Fox will either became another F-Zero (a series that lives of Smash Memes) or be in Remake Hell.




Oh wait... I'm going super off topic lol.

___

DK will be always be alive thanks to the fact Donkey Kong it's a Gaming Icon regardless of Smash Bros's existence.
 
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Planet Cool

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I've recently become convinced that part of the reason the Donkey Kong characters aren't as popular as other video game mascots is that they're mostly brown, one of the least exciting colors. They don't "pop" compared to characters like Mario, Sonic, Link, and Pikachu. They're also apes, animals often seen as crude and foolish. It's pretty hard for them to look cool.
 

Mushroomguy12

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At this point I feel Star Fox will either became another F-Zero (a series that lives of Smash Memes) or be in Remake Hell.
The IP's pretty much already in Remake Hell, Star Fox Zero was just another remake as well, in everything but name only (but with awful motion controls). And Nintendo being Nintendo, probably took it's poor critical reception and sales as an indication to kill the series entirely rather than try something different.
 
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Koopaul

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Miyamoto will keep the series alive because he loves it. Other series they will kill off without a second glance.
 

GoodGrief741

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Miyamoto will keep the series alive because he loves it. Other series they will kill off without a second glance.
I wish I was so confident in Star Fox's survival. I'm pretty sure they're content with Starlink as the Star Fox for this console generation.
 

Ed-boy

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I've recently become convinced that part of the reason the Donkey Kong characters aren't as popular as other video game mascots is that they're mostly brown, one of the least exciting colors. They don't "pop" compared to characters like Mario, Sonic, Link, and Pikachu. They're also apes, animals often seen as crude and foolish. It's pretty hard for them to look cool.
To casual folk, that's probably the case (I think most of em' "pop" just fine, myself).
As far as fur color goes, what would be the solution? Would there even be a solution? How'd one address this without losing that "naturalistic" element of their designs?
 

ChunkySlugger72

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I've recently become convinced that part of the reason the Donkey Kong characters aren't as popular as other video game mascots is that they're mostly brown, one of the least exciting colors. They don't "pop" compared to characters like Mario, Sonic, Link, and Pikachu. They're also apes, animals often seen as crude and foolish. It's pretty hard for them to look cool.
I also believe that's part of the reason the Donkey Kong franchise never gets the respect it deserves.

I myself love DK, But he doesn't exactly lean on the cute side (Pikachu) or edgy/serious side (I don't know... Sonic? Or your typical M-rated character with a weapon ) from an average gamer and casual person point of view, He's seen as a goofy, dumb, dirty ape that doesn't scream "Adorable" or "Badass" to most.

I also always felt that the DK franchise (Post - Buyout) is overshadowed by the Mario franchise which has stronger branding and people view anything below Mario as "Inferior" or a "Cheap Imitation" for example: Tropical Freeze is better than NSMB Deluxe in every way ,But Deluxe still managed to outsell Tropical Freeze just because it's "Mario"

"Why buy the game with the stupid side monkey character from Mario spinoffs, When I can buy the more superior Mario (The Face of Video Games) instead?

It also doesn't help that for a little over a decade between the time of (DK 64 1999 - DKCR 2010) gamers viewed DK as nothing more than a "Mario Character" mostly appearing in spinoffs with no big memorable game to elevate his status or legacy as a character and franchise.
 
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InASnowBoundLand

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I just think Nintendo should lean on the humor. I think people are receptive to funny DK characters. Look at how well liked Funky, Lanky, and K. Rool are
We should get more weird funny stuff with the other characters. Like DK dancing in the intro to DKC1, Diddy and Dixie playing music at the end of the DKC2 levels. I think playing up the personalities and not trying to be "wholesome" and "cute" all the time would go along way.

You can still do that while maintaining the more "grounded" tone of the environments and such.

I'm saying that one reason the Rare games characters have maintained strong mindshare among fans is that Rare was better at this than Nintendo when it comes to the DK characters.

Cranky being more grumpy would help too. I think the best character portrayals by Nintendo are Funky, which they've nailed and expanded on. And DK himself. Although, like I said, I think seeing things like DK dancing again would be fun and helpful to his character. That kind of goofiness is missed.
 
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Ed-boy

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I feel I should point out that, as someone who came up during the Gamecube/Wii era, I never truly saw DK as a pure Mario character, more like an "associate". That's how it came off to me throughout my tyke years, from playing Melee, to watching a VHS of the DKC cartoon my mom got me, to discovering Nintendo/Rare/gaming history via the then-new Youtube. I'm sure there are others from my gen. that had some awareness of DKC.

@ InASnowBoundLand - You forgot to mention Chunky bumbling around in the DK Rap. ULTIMATE DISHONOR! :demon:
 
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Koopaul

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InASnowBoundLand InASnowBoundLand

Don't forget the DK Rap. That's one of the most well known things from Donkey Kong. I think comedy is the route DK should go to get public attention.
 

Cosmic77

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Even though Star Fox ain't doing so hot in sales, it's not exactly in the worst position it could be in. I think people are genuinely interested in the series and it's characters, but Nintendo has no idea how to use them. If they could break off from creating traditional Star Fox games and do something like BotW did, I guarantee you the franchise would thrive.

Now if you really want an example of a franchise that's dead in the water because Nintendo doesn't care enough to put forth the effort required to keep consumers interested, look no further than KI. Nintendo had something going for a little while, but they failed to act on it. Now I'm not even sure if another KI game would sell well because the fans who played Uprising have likely moved on by now. Just seems like the interest isn't there any more.

I've recently become convinced that part of the reason the Donkey Kong characters aren't as popular as other video game mascots is that they're mostly brown, one of the least exciting colors. They don't "pop" compared to characters like Mario, Sonic, Link, and Pikachu. They're also apes, animals often seen as crude and foolish. It's pretty hard for them to look cool.
Personally, I think it's a mix between a lack of consistent appearances and a failure to distinguish the characters through their separate personalities. The latter reason is probably why Funky typically stands out to fans. His personality does a really good job of separating himself from the other Kongs, whereas Dixie is usually seen as girl Diddy.
 

ZeroJanitor

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i think it would be cool if the next DK thing played up the differences between Diddy and Dixie more. Not just in abilities but also explore their personalities more and flesh them out in a longer, more story-driven game.

Basically what I'm saying is that a Donkey Kong RPG is a good idea and Nintendo is a fool for not making one sooner.
 

osby

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Now if you really want an example of a franchise that's dead in the water because Nintendo doesn't care enough to put forth the effort required to keep consumers interested, look no further than KI. Nintendo had something going for a little while, but they failed to act on it. Now I'm not even sure if another KI game would sell well because the fans who played Uprising have likely moved on by now. Just seems like the interest isn't there any more.
Kid Icarus is dead because the director wasn't interested in making a sequel.
 

Dinoman96

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Uprising was never really meant to be launch/relaunch of a big new franchise or anything, it was always intended to be a one-off. It was essentially an act of good will on Iwata's part, letting Sakurai work on something else that wasn't just a new Smash Bros. game.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
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Uprising was never really meant to be launch/relaunch of a big new franchise or anything, it was always intended to be a one-off. It was essentially an act of good will on Iwata's part, letting Sakurai work on something else that wasn't just a new Smash Bros. game.
So much of a one-off that Project Sora disbanded after the game was done.

Personally, I don't care if we never get another Kid Icarus after this one, it ended the series on such a good note.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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I think a lot of Donkey Kong/Banjo-Kazooie/Rareware fans will get a kick out of this.
 
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BirthNote

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GeneticDestiny
Here's a general response to recent events:
Professor Chops Opinion
Personally, IDC about Professor Chops. He's basically a prop to me and his presence has no impact on me whatsoever. I "acknowledge" him in the split second it takes for me to activate a checkpoint and then I go about my business.

Dixie's Popularity
As for the recent poll, there's no ifs ands or buts: it's bad news. Looks like we've been too quiet about Dixie and now she's dropped to nearly obscure levels. With Ultimate out, her DLC chances seeming unlikely, no new DKC in sight and many expecting an Echo without second thought (ughh..), interest in Dixie has fallen far, and yet again ChronoBound was right. With no external sources giving us hope for Dixie, my best suggestion is that we fall back on internal sources. Dixie has a few problems that I want to address that we have to keep in mind going forward:

  • Overshadowed by other Rare characters and 3rd Parties. We shouldn't start rivalries and flamewars with them, but we have to realize that she's traded K. Rool's shadow for a handful of others.
  • Not much knowledge about her. Dixie's been in more spinoffs than main games, and while that grants default exposure, she hasn't had a chance to show why she's different from (and in many cases better than) Diddy, leading to another problem.
  • Seen as Girl Diddy. General design aside, Dixie stands out from Diddy quite a bit, but her similar look to Diddy (small kong with fused eye sockets and a hat + shirt combo), lack of knowledge about her specifically, AND Nintendo's go-to policy of treating recolors as brand new characters gives the impression that Dixie only has her gender as distinction. Luckily Rare made Dixie stand out since DKC2, but if you looked at her without knowing this you'd assume she's a Kong version of Nana.
  • Us. Don't take this the wrong way; this is more self criticism than me lashing out. We're a pretty chill fandom. We have creativity and a variety of opinions but we're not very productive. Personally I haven't been invested in this thread for a long while and haven't been bothered to rewrite the OP since Ultimate came out. I'm close to 30 and like spending my time doing things not SSB-related, and I only comment on this thread when I feel like it, which is sporadically. That said I do lurk here occasionally to see what's up so I'm not entirely absentee, but I know I can be more active if I tried.
  • "Echo Material". This is a double-edged sword. For full disclosure, I'm still not ok with Dixie being an Echo, so for those who are bear with me. The good news about Dixie being one is that she gets a hassle-free way of being playable, can potentially get juuust enough distinction to be on Ken's level, plus she gets a tidal wave of fanart/exposure/attention and she gets to stand with her series and the rest of the roster. On the bad side we still get a Dixie who plays a lot like Diddy, the broader misconception that she's just her boyfriend with a hair gimmick slapped on sparingly, and the idea that there's bigger fish to catch. It seems that a lot of people are fine with Dixie getting in, but only as an Echo--that's not true amongst us fans as some will be fine with simply getting Dixie--but for non fans they'll only accept an Echo to keep her from interfering with who they want. This mindset means Dixie can get gently pushed aside to make way for more "deserving" characters, shunning her from the "real" newcomer wishlists but earning top spots in the Echo categories. See the problem? It feeds the idea that she can be safely ignored because, if she's getting in it'll just be as an Echo and nothing more. For a character who's debuted as more than "Diddy, with a twist!" I don't think Echo status is right for her. The fanart/exposure thing simply comes with being playable, echo or not.
With that all in mind, my best solution to all this is to keep coming up with creative ideas. SeashoreWar has been kicking *** with all those Mario Kart designs, and we have a Twitter page we can use to broadcast more creative things too. I thought that after doing the Dixie Kong moveset (shameless plug for those who haven't seen it) all those years back we wouldn't see this Kong come under fire for not having potential, but that didn't last long. So, I'mma do more imaginative stuff and I invite everyone who's willing to do the same. Fanart, crossovers, retrospective vids, essays, merch, stuff along those lines; You don't have to be an artist or professional writer, just be a fan of Donkey Kong. Talk more about what you want in a new DKC or DK game; if you want to make your own Kong be my guest, BUT I MUST say, no Sonic-style OCs or "Kong-sonas". We're not a weird bunch and we will keep it that way. I like that I'm NOT embarrassed to be supporting an adorable chimp and I'm among those who aren't making cringey things; We can keep the fandom alive and more importantly, healthy. Since we at the moment can't count on Nintendo to generate DK hype we should take it upon ourselves for the time being. I'll show something soon; also character reveal scripts are fine too--I'll put it in the OP once they start reemerging.

Echo Stuff
So, about the recent Echo discussion, I actually am more interested in brainstorming a new DKC in which Dixie's playable. Smash is phenomenal and all, but it seems we've been treating that as the only thing that can validate Dixie's stardom. I'd prefer her getting an expanded role in a new game over an Echo slot in Smash; which I also must say realistically, Semi-Clone is a much better fit for her, as in Wolf-Level. Isabelle has a lot of similar moves with Villager and that's not bad, but if I had my way and couldn't get Unique, Wolf-Level is the next best thing. Anyway, while I doubt my stance on the Echo discussion will change, always remember that everyone's free to state where they stand on the matter, whether I disagree or not. I assume most of us are adults at the oldest and mid-teens at the youngest; we gotta respect our perspectives and keep the discussions alive so keep it civil.
 

Planet Cool

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Here's the thing, though: Diddy and Dixie really are very similar mechanically. Yes, Dixie can float, Diddy's a little faster and can jump farther, and they both hold their barrels differently, but other than that, their differences come entirely from their personalities. That's why I think a Dixie Echo is a perfectly acceptable compromise. As long as the Smash team changed Dixie's animations (plus some models, like the peanut popgun changing to the gumball popgun) and gave her a ponytail dash and recovery, she could function exactly like Diddy and still be perfectly true to her character.
 
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