Disable to Intercept Aerials?

[*P*L*U*R*]

Okay, so I was playing against one of my friend's Marth as mewtwo as the match started out like it usually does, my sliding around, trying to find an opening, trying baby-shabowballs, etc.

So I wavedashed and did disable just as he tried to Shorthop a Fair. Disable stopped FAir dead in it's tracks and put Marth in a tumbling animation. He hit the ground and tech-rolled to the left, where I met him with a tech-chase grab into a combo.

So this got me thinking, COULD you possibly use Disable to call people on their aerial approaches? First, I need frame/hitbox data for the move but the fact that it just worked has me thinking.

I have a question though. Does disable still take effect of protruding parts of the character's hurtbox? Like, for example, would disable be able to outprioritize:

1. CF approaching you with a Nair
2. Fox approaching you with a nair
3. Peach trying to FC FAir you.
4. Ganon's Fist when he retreating Fairs you.
5. Any other character that throws out their foot/hands on an aerial.

Granted, this ISN'T foolproof because this technically has no hitstun so they could actually punish YOU for doing so with a quick aerial out of it. However, most players will instinctively try to Fast-fall and L-Cancel their aerial, only to realize they hit ground and need to tech.

I guess to use this, you basically have to be leagues better than your opponent in order to call their spacing and outspace it or get really lucky, like I did. It'll make you look ****ing bad-*** if you pull it off into a combo because Mewtwo is pretty much like, "NO!" and then he ***** you.


What's everyone feel about this? I wish I could research more but I have no cube/melee.

 

[Taj278]

The simple answer to your question is yes, disable can interrupt aerials and is very useful against most people. The weakness to this strat is just as you said, disable puts them into the tumble animation which means that they can do ANY attack out of disable in the air making it borderline worthless. You disable Marth's Forward air, then he can just continue to Forward air.

The best application of this is simply against people that are unaware that they can punish you, as a surprise counter, or hit them so that they are too low to viably hit you with another aerial. (Only works against characters with slower aerials like Ganon, CF forward/Down air, etc.)

If you've ever seen me play outside of vids, you'll see me pull this off on a number of people like Forward, Wobbles, Ken or everyone for that matter. You don't need to be leagues better in spacing for it to work, you just need to have good spacing yourself. You shouldn't need data, the only thing you need to know is that it has slightly less range than Marth's Forward air, and you can never make it hit low unless you're off the stage anyway. From there you just throw it out if they come at the ideal angle while moving slightly forward or backwards with a hop, or you can try to cloak it with a disable out of shield.

 

[Shadow Huan]

All I have to add to Taj's reply post is this: if you are able to hit them twice with the Disable it has knockback the second time. I've done the air/tumble Disable thing and followed it up with a few more Disables to knock them out and spike them. It only works if your foe is facing you whichever way they tech, but it may be a good way to mix up the uses.

 

[Hpnotiq]

it actually works, but sometimes is risky... for example.. CF comes flyin with a nair.. u disable it then he recovers and make u eat his elbow... like taj said.. is good to do it when the people dont expect it, so they can't react the fast enough to punish u... i like to do it against CF, just jump in front of him and do it in the air.. when he see u in the air, he would try to hit u.. the disable in the air makes time enough for you to touch the ground and use a u-tilt or nair..

 

[AquaTech]

I like how many of Mewtwo's techniques and strategies revolve around opponents not knowing how his moves work, lol. But yes, I think what Taj said pretty much sums it up.

 

[KAOSTAR]

not the best strategy but can be used every now and again to punish ppl who dont kno they are gonna get hit wit it.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

i wanna try to practically apply that as a wildcard for the unweary, but im wondering if you could follow up disable with maybe an attack of your own or would their ability to attack you be quicker or better than yours?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

i wanna try to practically apply that as a wildcard for the unweary, but im wondering if you could follow up disable with maybe an attack of your own or would their ability to attack you be quicker or better than yours?

IF they immediately respond in the air, then they'll always have the advantage because they can immediately act out of it.

However, that means that they have to predict it; they have stupid, dumb, ******** reaction times; or they were mashing buttons as they were flying through the air. This tactic is NOT meant to be used often.

If they hit the ground first, you have time to shield their get-up attack. If they do a get up attack, you can grab/oos aerial; if they tech, you can grab/oos aerial; if they roll, you can wavedash -> whatever.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I thought Confusion was the one with no hitstun? Or is it both of them?

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

IF they immediately respond in the air, then they'll always have the advantage because they can immediately act out of it.

However, that means that they have to predict it; they have stupid, dumb, ******** reaction times; or they were mashing buttons as they were flying through the air. This tactic is NOT meant to be used often.

If they hit the ground first, you have time to shield their get-up attack. If they do a get up attack, you can grab/oos aerial; if they tech, you can grab/oos aerial; if they roll, you can wavedash -> whatever.

just wondering i mean like i said use it as a wild card rather than an actualy tactic, like you throw it out there and your opponent is just like "wait...wtf did he just?" but i see what your going at would it be possible to double disable them in the air? or would two disables in the air not have the same effect as they do on the ground?

 

[Taj278]

I thought Confusion was the one with no hitstun? Or is it both of them?

Confusion has hitstun, it is just much less than the actual move itself, lol. Very well planned special move... Doesn't reflect, and it punishes itself with back airs to the face. At least you can pull people through platforms, right?

Disable in the air only puts the opponent in the tumble animation, and they can do anything out of it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Huh, so you can basically be punished out of both?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Huh, so you can basically be punished out of both?

Yup. Both are relatively ****ty lol. I do like them for very specific things tho. I was happy as **** when I learned confusion pulled ppl thru platforms. Also disable has short range but can be used effectively with practice.

Disabling and aerial twice is highly not gonna happen lol. It has the same effect as it does on the ground just takes too long to do twice and is easily punished

But Ive found that ppl on edges doing ledge getups and rolling up have frames that they are considered stunned/tumbling/whatever. If u disable someone doing that from the ledge they go flying off during the getup attack or the rolling up.

confusion is just nice sometimes cuz its unblockable. and I guess if your opponent techs which is somewhat likely you can techchase from it.

 

[quak]

look at credits of my vid

depending on ur opponents bair, they can hit you before they even hit the ground

don't play mewtwo against the same people too much.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Which vid are u talking about?

And I take it that you mean m2 even tho hes bottom tier he can throw some ppl off balance cuz nobody plays against him lol

 

[elvenarrow3000]

His combo video. It was like... fac|<ing Mewtwo or something. Something with weird punctuation. The song was pretty cool.

 

[KAOSTAR]

oh yea facking m2 lol or whatever. I think that quak is just luckys he called dibs on the taunt lol in that moonwalking montage lol

 

[Shadow Huan]

I thought Confusion was the one with no hitstun? Or is it both of them?

But if you Disable twice it has knockback without hitstun! What was Sakurai smoking when he came up with Mewtwo's side and down specials anyways?

just wondering i mean like i said use it as a wild card rather than an actualy tactic, like you throw it out there and your opponent is just like "wait...wtf did he just?" but i see what your going at would it be possible to double disable them in the air? or would two disables in the air not have the same effect as they do on the ground?

>.> I've never tried a double Disable in the air.

Cool sig dude. Too bad the two characters have nothing in common...

Confusion has hitstun, it is just much less than the actual move itself, lol. Very well planned special move... Doesn't reflect, and it punishes itself with back airs to the face. At least you can pull people through platforms, right?

Quote: What was Sakurai smoking when he came up with Mewtwo's side and down specials anyways?

Had to be something strong...

Yup. Both are relatively ****ty lol. I do like them for very specific things tho. I was happy as **** when I learned confusion pulled ppl thru platforms. Also disable has short range but can be used effectively with practice.

Disabling and aerial twice is highly not gonna happen lol. It has the same effect as it does on the ground just takes too long to do twice and is easily punished

But Ive found that ppl on edges doing ledge getups and rolling up have frames that they are considered stunned/tumbling/whatever. If u disable someone doing that from the ledge they go flying off during the getup attack or the rolling up.

confusion is just nice sometimes cuz its unblockable. and I guess if your opponent techs which is somewhat likely you can techchase from it.

Ahhh... Can't argue. But Disabling twice works if the foe is damaged enough 'cause the effect lasts longer the higher the %... not that it makes sense to anyways. if they're up to damage and you Disable them, why waste the free D-Smash on the crappy knockback of the double disable right?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Ahhh... Can't argue. But Disabling twice works if the foe is damaged enough 'cause the effect lasts longer the higher the %... not that it makes sense to anyways. if they're up to damage and you Disable them, why waste the free D-Smash on the crappy knockback of the double disable right?

I meant as in intercept of aerials. You cant disable them while they are coming down from an aerial twice unless they are ********. They recover instantly from the tumbling animation due to its super small hit stun.

Disable has more knock back then dsmash at low percents. Because all of m2s smashes have low knockback I wouldnt feel comfortable smashing a disabled foe at low percent. Also low percent they can break out as the dsmash is slow. The only thing special about it is that you cant tech its initial hit for some odd reason.

Heres the reason I would disable again at low percents:

if they break out you may disable again. Not really a plus at all but it fits m2s attitude of being all powerful. but the knockback of double disable is more than the initial downsmash from 0 percent. Not to mention m2s smashes are easy to CC. If the CC it you gettin that *** whooped

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You can't CC while stunned though. You can ASDI down, but... eh.

Why not just grab?

 

[KAOSTAR]

You can't CC while stunned though. You can ASDI down, but... eh.

Why not just grab?

ASDI is CC. CC comes after smash DI thats why they tell you to DI perpendicular to the launch angle and towards the stage while holding down on the Cstick. If you plan on teching.

You smash DI first for the lowest possible angle and then the ASDI comes from the cstick which has priority and is also CC.

Try holding down on the Cstick and you will CC just the same as if u held down.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well what people refer to as crouch canceling includes both the ASDI down as well as the crouch cancel itself, which is the knockback reduction from being crouched.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well what people refer to as crouch canceling includes both the ASDI down as well as the crouch cancel itself, which is the knockback reduction from being crouched.

You dont have to actually be crouching to CC. You just need to be holding down. You cannont tech during hit lag which is when you smash DI. You can ASDI into a surface so that you can tech which is why you CC[to stick tech].

You can be standing and hold the Cstick down and the ASDI happens after the SDI in which you will actually crouch. Just try it out.

I always thought you CCed first but then you would realize that you would always resist flying away. At low percents the vertical knockback is less than the ASDI and thats why CC keeps you grounded. At higher percents you start flying away but the ASDI sends you at a lower angle. When you SDI an attack at high percents you can still tech because the SDI greatly lowers your angle and then the remaining ASDI from CC puts you into the ground at which you will tech in place even from a hard hit [as long as you hit the r button before the SDI inputs or frame perfectly hit R the single next frame after the hitlag ends which is during the CC or ASDI]

The knockback reduction is from the ASDI down from relatively low vertical knockback.

ASDI>vert knock=CC withouth leaving the ground