DI'ing Sheiks Down-Throw

[Nike.]

And before you tell me, I know this is yet another thread for help against Sheik.

I always seem to lose to Sheiks only because whenever she down-throws me, I can't seem to DI out of it and she just continues to combo me.

This EK vs. Caption Jack video shows EK DI'ing Sheiks down-throw to perfection and techs just before she can reach him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvWQapsAKmU

I read on some other site that you can also DI with the C-Stick, controlliong two different directions at the same time.

So my question is how exactly do you DI the down-throw from Sheik like EK?

 

[ChaosKnight]

srry to burst your bubble this is PAL version sheiks down throw got nerfed in it

 

[Bailey]

Basically Nike in the PAL Version which is only in Europe and other countries besides USA the creators De-Amazingnessed most of the characters in the game. The made Fox almost as light as Kirby, Falco's D-Air only spikes in the first half of the move, Slaughtered ALL Chain Grabbing and others as for DIing Sheik's Down Throw it all depends at your damage and where you are on the Map if you are by the edge try to go far away from her off the stage and down then recovery.

 

[Nike.]

That really sux, oh well. Anyone know the best way to counter it on the normal version?

 

[Mcscruff]

DI straight up, and AT THE LAST SECOND DI back. This will confuse the sheik because then she won't know which way to turn. basically do whatever you have to, to not get f-tilted.

 

[opiumfish13]

wuh?

DI straight up, and AT THE LAST SECOND DI back. This will confuse the sheik because then she won't know which way to turn. basically do whatever you have to, to not get f-tilted.

DIing straight up is = to not DIing at all. Shiek's Dthrow is one of the most annoying throws in the game. When people first learn about Chain Grabbing (begginer-> intermediate players) what they will do is grab, dthrow, run after you and regrab.

From my exp., I found what to do when getting grabbed and thrown is situational; you have to watch the opponent if he/she will chase after your or not:

1) The first way is as soon as your thrown downwards, pause (until shiek starts to pull her hand back in), and then immediatly DI away + down so you can tech off of the ground. Of course if the opponent catches on, you'll have to change your tactic and the best thing to do to confuse them is to:

2) Stay in place, and jump or do an aeriel. I'm pretty sure after about 55-60% Marth can do a 2nd jump since you get thrown higher as yoru % increases. A danger to this is Shiek can easily do a Nair, Uair, or Fair depending on what he/she wanted to do.

Again, you have to watch what your opponent does and mix it up. Hope this helps.

 

[tarheeljks]

@opiumfish: that is ridiculous, DIing up is definitely different than not DIing at all. Falco DI's up to escape fox's chaingrab.

 

[opiumfish13]

eh?

Interesting, I didn't know that. Does DIing upward actually send the character upwards? I never noticed a difference. Thanks for the info.

 

[bGoss]

Usually after reaching about 50% I can double jump out of it, and depending on what my friend is thinking, if he follows me up, I can pull off a counter fast enough to make him regret chasing me.

 

[Pye]

@opiumfish: that is ridiculous, DIing up is definitely different than not DIing at all. Falco DI's up to escape fox's chaingrab.

I've also heard of DIing some throws straight up, but I've also heard many, many times that DIing in the same or exact opposite direction an attack sends you is equivalent to not DIing. Does that only apply to attacks, and throws behave differently, or what?

As for escaping Shiek's dthrow...good luck with that, is all I can tell you. If Shiek grabs you, thats basically like an auto-combo right there, since even a semi-decent Shiek can follow up with tilts easily, regardless of your DI. In fact, if Shiek JABS you, that's an insta-combo, since that leads into her grab >_< Try not to get grabbed. Space yourself uber-well.

I didn't know Shiek could chaingrab Marth. I'd always assumed she couldn't, because I'm always able to DI away from Shiek and easily double jump out when my friend tries.

EDIT: I'd advise against what bGoss said by the way: don't use counter to avoid follow-ups, otherwise you'll just get grabbed. Use fair.

 

[bGoss]

When Sheik follows up with UAir, counter is a sure hit with a lot less lag than either a FAir or DAir.

 

[Flush 5]

Pye, i think using smash DI, you can DI in any direction. So right when you are hit, which is like a frame or two, you can DI up and it affects it, but once you are in a trajectory, you can only DI perpendicular to the direction in which you're flying. However, i could possibly be wrong

 

[pockyD]

you can't smash DI most throws

however, very few throws are actually perfectly vertical, so DI up does produce at least a small effect (not as noticeable as horizontal DI though)

 

[johnkim]

smash DI works on jigglypuff's fthrow only.

 

[Pye]

When Sheik follows up with UAir, counter is a sure hit with a lot less lag than either a FAir or DAir.

Less lag then a fair? I find that really hard to believe, sorry. There's no way counter has less lag then a fair. Granted, counter might be better if your DI dosn't take you far enough from Shiek to space a fair properly, but there's no way it has less lag.

@ Flush 5: Yeah, as PochyD said, you can't smashDI throws, aside of Jiggs' fthrow (the only exception as far as I know). Also, you can't DI at all once you are in trajectory. Even regular DI has to be inputted before the hit, just not in the hitlag. I'm going to have to go with what PochyD said: If the throw isn't acualy exactly vertical, DIing up gives you that vertical trajectory (thus most air time).

That would explain exactly why Fox and Falco can DI Marth's chainthrow straight up and shine out of it at a certain percent, too.

 

[bGoss]

Counter stance is almost instantaneous where as if you have your back to Sheik while in mid air and she comes up with an UAir, the opening frames of the attack are away from where you want to be striking. I will say this though, if a DAir can be pulled off, it's better than a counter because at least you can L-cancel. However, when playing levels like Battlefield, I find that counter works better.

 

[Stryk9]

i find the only way to DI it is to distract the other player by starting to freestyle hot lyrics!


cuz thats the only way your avoiding the ftilt you know is coming into your face

 

[FrostByte]

Or you could just press start as soon as Sheik goes for the second grab.

 

[Roche_CL]

lol, sheik has only like 2 or 3 chain grabs, if you DI upwards or backwards, bye bye CG.
now, the really problem is the fact that after each D-grab, sheik has a free Hit (most of them are aerials, but sometimes they can Usmash you).
You have to be smart on wich way to chose, you have to analize your position and if you have plataforms to tech. If you are in final, I would chose the Back DI, simply beacuse it's harder for her to hit the Uair (harder, not imposible), and mostly they will land a weakspotted Bair. But if you are at the corner of the stage, you would then have to DI INTO the stage.
Now, if you have plataforms, try to land in them and tech. If you are in low %, best options would be Back-DI and Up-DI, in high %, Foward DI or Down-DI.

Remember that it's very hard to hit the sweetspot of Sheik's Bair, or to land the Uair (if you DIed backwards) so if your friend is just not that expert, you can always DI that way.

 

[knightpraetor]

so roche child..you mention nothing of the upsmash really..i still haven't figured out if they should be able to upsmash or not...husband said you can jump out before they can upsmash...but is that at any percent? and should I di up and in to get behind them or fully in?

 

[JesiahTEG]

I haven't played any high level sheiks, but from the sheiks i've played, when I di behind them and downwards the sheik always bairs, which is better than getting tilted or faired. This is only the sheik's i've played though, and they're not insanely good.

 

[knightpraetor]

they can tilt..they just aren't doing it..it seems sheik can tilt at any percentage regardless of whether you di in or down and in or up and in..up and in and down in create roughly the same trajectory for marth.


still when i'm diing away..at what percentage can i jump out before they grab? it seems to be aroudn 40 or 50 if someone could test that for me i'd appreciate it..it's hard to do with two controllers and i don't have anyone else around atm

 

[xeno]

If Sheik grabs you, consider yourself Comb'od. =P
I'll try out the DI up though next time I get grabbed by a Sheik. I main Sheik heh.

 

[The Newb]

A good sheik WILL hit you out of a down throw no matter how you DI. That being said, there is an optimal DI, in which she can only forward tilt you, which you can DI away from and escape relatively unharmed. The DI is straight behind her and one half notch down from that. This prevents re-grabbing and the oh-so vicious up-smash.

 

[knightpraetor]

wait..you have to jump out to avoid the upsmash i thought..are you suggesting to not even jump but di that way? i'll test it sometime i guess..but i'm surprised no one mentioend this earlier

 

[The Newb]

Don't know why people didn't mention it before me. I use it against my friend Plairnkk almost daily. You don't need to jump, all you need to do is execute it and then try to hit them with an ->B. Or you can jump. Whichever would work best for the situation. That being said, if you jump and they expected you to jump and hit you with an aerial, you're gonna be up the creek without a paddle, so to speak.

 

[knightpraetor]

hey newb..so at low damage you're not going to be able to di the tilt far enough away to escape getting comboed to an aerial right?

 

[Husband]

You guys have the right intensions, but all the wrong Ideas. Here you are putting all this effort into "How to DI the throw". When you ask a question like this and take the time to make a thread, you have already made a mistake. You are accepting defeat just by having this conversation.

Instead of wasting your time trying to figure out how to DI the grab, why don’t you use your time figuring out how not to get grabbed at all? You wont have to worry about the DI if you learn how not to get grabbed. It will solve your problems at the very root of them. Think outside the box people.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Husband....

r u serious?????

Just think about it. seriously. That post made no sense. People DO get grabbed. It happens. Even to the best of the best. They just want to know how to handle this situation when it comes up.

I'm guessing your post was sarcasm, cuz otherwise. Ugh.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

How bout we learn how to not get grabbed and how to DI sheik's dthrow? I have plenty of time to devote to both.

From how I see things:

How to DI sheik's grab:

DI sheik's dthrow diagonally down behind her.

How to not get grabbed:

Forfeit.

It would be so much easier if we all just quit this game and stopped wasting our time. ~_*

In order to not get grabbed, it's important to look at the times I do get grabbed. I get grabbed if I:

1. Try to grab sheik and she sidesteps.
2. Mess up my spacing.
3. Land from an aerial and can't get the sidestep off before she grabs.
4. Fsmash and miss
5. Try to get back onto the stage, particularly at 100% or higher.
6. Shield thinking sheik will dash attack when she decides to grab instead.
7. Sidestep thinking sheik will grab when she just crouch cancels or shields until my sidestep is over then grabs.
8. Make a mistake *no way, is that possible???*

 

[The Newb]

Husband thinks too hard imo. My concept of playing marth is all like...BOOM TIPPER, "did I win yet?".

Edit: @ UMBC: 3/8 of your reasons for getting grabbed revolve around sidestepping. Sidestepping is terrible if spammed and easily punished. People that fall for it (like me) are just stupid, and it shouldn't happen.

 

[Husband]

Husband thinks too hard imo. My concept of playing marth is all like...BOOM TIPPER, "did I win yet?".

Edit: @ UMBC: 3/8 of your reasons for getting grabbed revolve around sidestepping. Sidestepping is terrible if spammed and easily punished. People that fall for it (like me) are just stupid, and it shouldn't happen.

This is why Husband Is ranked and why the Newb isnt.

It was a serious post and you guys still cant understand that. Yes its good to know where to DI if you get grabbed but you dont need a whole thread about it. DI up and away then jump out... Wow, thats so hard.... I think we should have a WHOLE thread about it.... Thats sarcasm.

Does DIing up and away then jumping out need a whole thread???

 

[ToXn]

Does DIing up and away then jumping out need a whole thread???

Aren't threads that are pretty much spam the only thing on smash boards?

 

[The Newb]

This is why Husband Is ranked and why the Newb isnt.

It was a joke.

 

[knightpraetor]

isn't away better than up and away? for jumping out i mean? or does that get followed up with a dash attack easier?

and husband..i did read your huge thread on not getting grabbed and thought about it a lot as well..but it doesn't hurt to do both...also, i think for nonpros it's easier to think of patch solutions rather than improving our game to the point where we don't get grabbed...

my marth over the last two years has gotten a good bit better than the avg video post i see..but even so...i watch pros and i'm like zomg i would get 2 stocked

the day when i make no slipups is a ways off..probably needles to grab hurts me most though..i just don't always expect it

 

[Nike.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18dslosF1ks

You got out of the grab most of the time, but my god.

 

[Godfinger]

try a wobble recovery to escape sheik's chain grab, i think that is when you air tech or hit left and right repeatedly in midair.

 

[FrostByte]

You'll still either get hit or grabbed again, even if you "wriggle" out of it. The timing the for the tumbling animation to end is the same as when you are able to use your jump. It's most useful against techchase-happy players.

 

[Bibbed]

DI up and away then jump out

Thread over?

 

[Ether]

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You got out of the grab most of the time, but my god.

That was Husband vs. Isai, right? Husband's DI worked.