Diddy Kong Whining/Defense Thread

[DeLux]

Probably a topic for either the social or metagame thread. This doesn't need its own thread.

 

[Dissent]

Nah, it would mean they have different taste.

Though in my opinion as a long time member of the FGC, Brawl is the most boring fighting game to watch, bar none.

I dunno man, Playstation All-Stars was pretty boring to watch.

 

[taolem]

I've heard so much drama about Diddy suddenly springing up, and I want to know others opinions.

 

[DeLux]

Probably a question for either the social or metagame thread or even the FAQ. This doesn't need its own thread.

 

[Hayzie]

I can't stand when people claim that players are unoriginal for playing those characters the same way as the last guy - Denying yourself of a character's most powerful options is the stupidest thing you can do, especially if you're playing to win.

So repeating those moves that you can't land due to being predictable is a way to win? Sounds stupid to me when you can't mix it up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I have more fun playing/watching the low tier characters kick butt since they really have to work for their kills. Nothing more satisfying then fighting a good Ganondorf win or lose. I've tried Diddy and while he is easy to pick up and really good to me his playstyle really isn't all that fun. I understand some people play to win but for me fun factor is what counts. And I get the most of my fun with heavies like Bowser and Charizard. Meta Knight can be pretty great too if you can control your opponent.

 

[SmashBro99]

I detect some tbh.

 

[DunnoBro]

One interesting fact, it's become apparent that taking brawl diddy's model and putting it into a hitstun environment has now lead to THREE games where he was at least at one point the best character:

P:M
Brawl Minus (during the time it had some semblance of a competitive scene in that patch)
And now Sm4sh

I don't think it'd be too ignorant to assume brawl diddy's model might just be somewhat incompatible with hitstun, and balance. Very awkward, difficult to balance character without the competitive environment to observe the grab happy chimp in it's natural environment.

 

[ChivalRuse]

On the one hand I agree, and on the other hand I disagree.

First of all, stream watchers are a bad example, because you can't expect them to get hyped over this game period. Not much exciting stuff happens - let's just face it.

Second of all, you're arguing about Diddy ruining a game because of watchability. Now, I understand that as an eSport, this is a big component of any fighting game's survivability. However, the ultimate determining factor for a game is the amount of skill needed to compete in it and depth that exists in it.

I actually enjoy watching Smash 4, Diddy mirror included. It's not the repetitive combos that interest me, but rather the mindgames and creative setups that each competitor brings with their own style and level of experience. And why do you think that a stream won't get hyped about this kind of thing? Well, the short answer is that stream watchers generally don't observe these kinds of slightly less obvious things happening because, to do so, you are required to analyze the tactics behind the gameplay, which a lot of people subconsciously avoid doing.

 

[thehard]

I don't know about you guys but I've seen a lot of Diddy upsets the past couple of weeks. And it's really fun to see the supposed "villainous fringe-overpowered" character trumped (Will's Donkey Kong vs M2K)

Not an isolated case either. Players are learning and they will either have to change up their Diddy gameplan (leading to less cookie-cutter and more interesting plays) or find a new character entirely once they realize bandwagoning isn't working anymore.

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't know about you guys but I've seen a lot of Diddy upsets the past couple of weeks. And it's really fun to see the supposed "villainous fringe-overpowered" character trumped (Will's Donkey Kong vs M2K)

Not an isolated case either. Players are learning and they will either have to change up their Diddy gameplan (leading to less cookie-cutter and more interesting plays) or find a new character entirely once they realize bandwagoning isn't working anymore.

To be fair though, m2k hasn't been playing sm4sh even 1/10th as long as will so I kind of doubt we saw anywhere near m2k's full potential with diddy in that matchup.

You can take that as m2k, diddy, or both just being that good to do as well as they did despite that.

 

[thehard]

To be fair though, m2k hasn't been playing sm4sh even 1/10th as long as will so I kind of doubt we saw anywhere near m2k's full potential with diddy in that matchup.

You can take that as m2k, diddy, or both just being that good to do as well as they did despite that.

Yeah I'm definitely aware of that. Diddy is still great obviously. It's just that players do learn to counter popular threats...which I'm sure everyone understands. AllyKnight vs Jtails is a better example of an established Diddy losing, if you want.

 

[DunnoBro]

AllyKnight vs Jtails is a better example of an established Diddy losing, if you want.

He beat one diddy and then lost winner's finals once zero switched to diddy. Got 2-stocked immediately. Eventually switched to diddy himself to try to counter his diddy.

Let's not cherrypick **** please. No one's claiming diddy is unbeatable, but there are clearly issues. If nothing else, his risk/reward/effort investment in the neutral game is by far the most appealing of any character in the game.

 

[thehard]

Yeah, that was painful. Admittedly I forgot that happened even though I watched the whole tournament live.

 

[Rambolav]

This obviously is a discussion with a lot of different elements and points to it, but let's take a step back and realize that the game hasn't been out for very long. Meta games change, and characters may very well be buffed or nerfed... At the end of the day you just have to expect this stuff to happen with a game like this. Over time, the skill ceiling will be raised. Matches will be more technical and refined. I can't imagine that this, according to OP, loop of Diddy tactics will be the be all end all of Smash. OP's point would most definitely be more interesting and would require a discussion if it had for example been three years and all we saw was Diddy vs Diddy...

With all due respect, it's just coming off as kinda salty.

 

[cot(θ)]

Well, I think the OP kind of has a point - I found the first game of the KTAR XI grands a bit boring to watch, as both JTails and M2K were very cookie-cutter Diddy Kong, especially in terms of abusing d-throw->uair/bair followups. But in my opinion, they mixed it up nicely in the following games, and overall, I found the match enjoyable to watch.

 

[DunnoBro]

Personally diddy himself is fun to watch for me personally, but so was MK until a certain point. I just hope diddy remains fresh, which seems unlikely.

 

[Jtails]

Don't blame Diddy, blame all the players who aren't diddy mains who flock on over to play him because they think they'll win.

 

[DrLobster]

Ladies and gentleman, Exhibit A:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xPv71qC2IM&list=UUuBhMqosgW-ECZjJZ9pv0Dg

A set with not one, but two Diddy Kong players. Drawing a large crowd.

And people are enjoying it.

A lot.

 

[Phenomiracle]

^ Let's see how long it lasts. The novelty of a new console Smash hasn't come close to wearing off.

 

[Luigi player]

The problem is that there are too many bad Diddy players so people don't even care to watch it and just want that "pocket Diddy" to lose, because they think he's op.

 

[synesthe-sia]

People saying the game is meant to be played, not watched, probably haven't been in the FGC for very long.

Being hype for streaming/ watching is a huge part of enjoying a fighting game.

How dare you have an opinion that slightly goes against the grain.

 

[Juan Lopez]

So after I began realizing playing the CPU gets boring quickly I decided to finally play online and I play ONLY as Diddy Kong and I am pretty good with him utilizing his bananas and throws properly but the fights where I just crumble are spammers who use Fox, Falco, Link etc as I can't shoot peanuts at them or bananas because they go crazy with projectiles so I try in vain to jump over it or dodge it only to have the spammer create space like throws or smash attacks and afterwards head to the other side of the stage and continue spamming to the point where the fight gets boring and not about skills anymore. What I want to know is how would a veteran Diddy Kong player negate these spammers?

 

[Sir_Zedd]

Had a small tourney today, there were quite a lot of people who had obviously jumped on the Diddy bandwagon and just let me say: bad Diddys are terrible to watch and kill alot of hype.

That being said, I enjoyed out Diddying them and the Diddy v Diddy grand final was a great watch.

I'm so over diddy though, bring on the next 'OP gamekillah' please.

 

[Legit]

Falco's lasers are slow, so it should be relatively easy to jump over them and punish. If they play a bit safer with lasers, just shield/powershield them while constantly moving toward him.

Link's projectiles hurt a bit more, but the same rules apply. His projectiles are a bit safer though, and I'd advise against jumping over Link (he's pretty good at punishing people above him, and Diddy has little options against people below him), so just try to approach on the ground while shielding his projectiles.

If you're up against a Fox that spams lasers, you should be able to easily rush him down and grab him (or at least scare him into cease firing), as his lasers have no knockback properties.

 

[Madlollipop]

Had a small tourney today, there were quite a lot of people who had obviously jumped on the Diddy bandwagon and just let me say: bad Diddys are terrible to watch and kill alot of hype.

That being said, I enjoyed out Diddying them and the Diddy v Diddy grand final was a great watch.

I'm so over diddy though, bring on the next 'OP gamekillah' please.

From only playing the 3ds version, watching streams and not being amazing, I dont really have the best experience nor expertise.
but I find diddys neutral game to be very, very good as well as his recovery, hard to follow him if not read. But...
we need to accept that people WILL try to become good at characters which are good, and no one is amazing when they start out, even if it kills some hype most people will eitger get better or switch probably(no source or data to that).

 

[warionumbah2]

Oh well i won't watch any Diddy matches, boring af.

Vgbootcamp and Clash tournaments will notice the view drop, only time a Diddy video gets a lot of views is when they reach the grand finals which is pretty damn common.

Character variety is going down the drain he's worse than pre patcholina and luma in terms of how common he is in competitive play.

 

[DunnoBro]

Vgbootcamp and Clash tournaments will notice the view drop.

There's far more factors right now to take into potential view drops than ****ing diddy lmao

 

[Hayzie]

I welcome pretty much all characters being played as long as you have an original play style and don't spam. When you show respect, it's a good fight no matter what.

 

[Jugoken]

have you guys considered using custom equipment to nerf and change his stats, yea it wont be perfect but it could be better than it is now. Also mr.E's Marth did well against mew2kings diddy, And so did Nairo's Dark Pit against Nakats so i dont see what the big deal is.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Diddy Kong is annoying to watch. Players are super uncreative copypaste shiz i see everywhere else.BUTT The game is very new, and soon someone will find better ways to get to him. And if that somehow doesn't happen, at least its not MetaKnights broken,busted,boring a$$ on screen. AT LEAST.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Don't blame Diddy, blame all the players who aren't diddy mains who flock on over to play him because they think they'll win.

This. The bandwagoning in this game is pretty ridiculous considering the game's level of balance, and it feels worse than Brawl, which at least took about a year or so before everyone started crossing over to the dark side. It's as if people don't want to bother exploring their favorites and seeing what they can and can't do, and would rather just pick up the "best" character on day 1 and never even try to learn anything about the rest of the cast. This of course blows up in their faces, as the gap between characters isn't big enough for you to simply abuse the strengths of top tiers while ignoring mid/low tier matchups like you could in Brawl.

 

[Jaedrik]

This. The bandwagoning in this game is pretty ridiculous considering the game's level of balance, and it feels worse than Brawl, which at least took about a year or so before everyone started crossing over to the dark side. It's as if people don't want to bother exploring their favorites and seeing what they can and can't do, and would rather just pick up the "best" character on day 1 and never even try to learn anything about the rest of the cast. This of course blows up in their faces, as the gap between characters isn't big enough for you to simply abuse the strengths of top tiers while ignoring mid/low tier matchups like you could in Brawl.

Time will tell. Why be so self righteous now if it is possible you are in error? You presume many things, and would do well to anticipate every response and then some.

 

[κomıc]

Just use Palutena to beat Diddy.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Time will tell. Why be so self righteous now if it is possible you are in error? You presume many things, and would do well to anticipate every response and then some.

I'm not trying to be self-righteous. I'm saying that people are looking for the next Meta Knight when there is absolutely no evidence that one exists in this game. There's nothing "wrong" with picking a popular and powerful character, I just think it's a poor strategy to chase top tiers this early into a meta, as we currently don't really know which characters are and aren't viable in this game, and there may be viable characters that better suit the players' individual skills and allow them to perform better than they would with a character that's "better" in a vacuum. I have no problem with people picking characters that they feel give them the best chance to win in a competitive environment, I just think at this stage in the game you'll be better served deciding for yourself what you do best with instead of letting the shifting opinions of the internet decide for you.

 

[Sir Ught]

So to have a different perspective from a lot of the "Diddy Haters" out there, I mained Diddy in Brawl and PM and had a freaking blast with him even though I wasn't a stellar player and he wasn't generally a high tier fighter. So to now see that Diddy has become good enough to be called broken by a lot of smashers is kind of exciting for me. Everyone wants their favorite character to be good, so I'm just trying to see what all this Diddy hype is doing for fellow prior Diddy mains? Do you have reservations against playing Diddy now because of the negative stigma? Are you also hoping for a nerf? Do you say screw the haters, and I'm gonna D-throw - U-air you into oblivion because I can now? Give me your thoughts!!!!

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I played Diddy in Brawl to troll with bananas when I wasn't playing Falco. In PM I played Diddy because he was just too cool with that Up B gimmick. In Smash 4 I'm playing Diddy seeing the hype around him. Diddy's been overall solid / good in all the games, so he's a good character to play as everywhere.

 

[vypex]

I usually have good competitive matches against diddy, couple changes i would make to make people quit complaining so much is change the side b to either a fulltime kick or a full grab, as thats what gets me most of the time not knowing if its roll time or block time, up air is a good kill move but maybe a little too powerful as up until 120ish its a combo with down throw before they other person finally flies far enough not to get hit by it, by than any smash from diddy would kill you, if the changes come or they don't people will have to evolve and try figure out strategies, anyone really skilled in a certain character will give anyone headaches, diddy just seems easier to get good at, low learning curve to him but far from being this generations MK.

 

[Dre89]

He's probably not even the best character in the game. Dthrow-aerial is not even guaranteed with proper DI after very low percents, he gets forced to approach a lot of characters and his recovery is very gimpable. His frame data is good but there are other characters who are just as good in that department. He'll always be top 5-10 because of how good his frama data is but he'll lose the #1 spot as the meta becomes more defensive.

 

[Legit]

He's probably not even the best character in the game. Dthrow-aerial is not even guaranteed with proper DI after very low percents, he gets forced to approach a lot of characters and his recovery is very gimpable. His frame data is good but there are other characters who are just as good in that department. He'll always be top 5-10 because of how good his frama data is but he'll lose the #1 spot as the meta becomes more defensive.

^Thisx999. Only reason people think Diddy is OP right now is he's easy to pick up and people STILL don't know how to DI the dthrow. When the meta evolves, he'll for sure drop down a couple notches. I still think Rosa is the best character in the game, for example. Her meta just hasn't developed as much, and succeeding with her isn't as easy as dthrow->uair.