Diddy Kong Whining/Defense Thread

[Meek Moths]

Guys this is pretty obvious Troll/Flame Bait. If OP really wanted to discuss Diddy's competitive power, there's a whole thread stickied at the top.

i dont thikn you know what troll means

 

[A_male_platypus]

I wouldn't say Diddy Kong is super OP, but a small nerf would help the rest of the cast.

I think instead of taking away the combo they could just make Diddy's grab akin to Pacman's or something. Have a little bit more ending lag so that it's easily very punishable.

 

[Droogaon]

I was doing a lot of diddy dittoes and you can try to escape the combo if you jump asap. At lower percents you can jump away to safety while at higher percents you DI away then jump. As far as I'm concern a good Rosaluma can beat a good Diddy.

 

[IsmaR]

Guys this is pretty obvious Troll/Flame Bait. If OP really wanted to discuss Diddy's competitive power, there's a whole thread stickied at the top.

^ This.

Criticism/opinions are fine. However there's already quite a few other threads on the same subject. Take it to the stickied Meta thread.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

i really like this character and he seems to do well against most the cast. he has great options. i dont what changes they are planning on making to him but he already has issues killing without the dthrow>upair. anyone concerned that he could serverly get nerfed and not be viable or by diddys character design in general hell still be top 10 and viable?

 

[Legit]

He'd still be top 10 even without dthrow uair. Hell, even top 5. I'd prefer if the combo got nerfed so all the posers would drop him.

 

[Garfuncle]

Diddy Kong is having a really negative effect on this game. I'm not talking balance wise, as that could change as the Meta evolves or when balance patches are applied, but for spectators of Smash 4 Diddy Kong is ruining this game's chances to have a healthy viewership. His play is repetitive, boring, and predictable to watch. Downthrow into infinity, toss a few bananas, rack up stocks...there is nothing flashy or intuitive about him, and thus there it is not very interesting at all to watch him.

Go to a Smash 4 tournament Stream and watch the reaction when there is an abundance of Diddy players, and Diddy mirror matches...the chat will soon go off on whatever tangent, trollish or otherwise, because the gameplay is just so dreadfully boring to watch. If this game is going to be popular to watch, then a concerted effort on part of players is needed so that try a bit of variety now and then. Watching a player play Diddy from round 1 to grand finals makes me want to go watch a Minecraft stream. It's getting to the point where it's that bad and that bloody boring. I don't know if it's MK Brawl mentality carying over to the new game or what, but it's a damn shame the watch-ability of Smash is being hamstrung this early by a mono-culture of yawn-invoking Diddy Kongs.

 

[Reila]

Don't watch it then? Go play the game instead.

 

[Kozmiic27]

Just because a character is supposedly overused does not mean you should hate on him, diddy will get nerfed. The meta will get changed. Just stop whinging and be patient

 

[Hayzie]

This applies to all characters. I'm always seeing predictability.

I'm not one to taunt people like a ***ch in games, but when people keep trying to do moves that they picked up by seeing everyone else doing it and thinking it's cool, it's not. I'm going to taunt like a ***ch when I take out your stock because of your lack of originality. Yes, I hate the way you play.

 

[aethermaster]

People said the same exact thing about Rosalina. "She's so boring to watch" "She's going to ruin the meta" Despite her nerfs, she wasn't a popular character and people found ways to counter her pretty early on. She's still top tier but people found ways to beat her rather than just giving up the game. Diddy will most likely be the same way.

The reason why Diddy's is probably gonna be more harder to crack is because people already come with these idiotic preconceived (mostly from an uninformed twitch chat and people who doesn't like anything without the words Melee or PM in the title) notions of him from Brawl/PM where he was difficult to play against where this isn't either of those games. He'll be countered but considering the Wii U version is oh I don't know 15 days old that's a little soon to be calling the game unwatchable because the meta isn't even close to being started yet.

That all being said, if you don't like watching the game, don't watch it. I find it baffling that people come into Smash 4 streams and call the game boring and just are general idiots. Why would you go into the stream of a game you already have negative opinions over just to bash it?

 

[HM04]

"the chat will soon go off on whatever tangent, trollish or otherwise, because the gameplay is just so dreadfully boring to watch" I think you should read the chat more often because the chat isn't trolling because the gameplay is boring. They are trolling because that's why they even go to the stream.

I don't think the game is primarily meant to be watched, it's meant to be played. In my experience if you have fun playing you have fun watching. If you're insisting that Diddy isn't particularly OP (which I agree with) then Diddy might be someone's main who they enjoy and there's no good reason to take that away.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

"the chat will soon go off on whatever tangent, trollish or otherwise, because the gameplay is just so dreadfully boring to watch" I think you should read the chat more often because the chat isn't trolling because the gameplay is boring. They are trolling because that's why they even go to the stream.

I don't think the game is primarily meant to be watched, it's meant to be played. In my experience if you have fun playing you have fun watching. If you're insisting that Diddy isn't particularly OP (which I agree with) then Diddy might be someone's main who they enjoy and there's no good reason to take that away.

There are so many competitive smash streams, people don't only watch them to troll.

 

[Jaedrik]

The game itself doesn't lend well to being watched.
I value depth of gameplay mechanics over viability of my favorite characters.

Should I hazard to say that people who derive their enjoyment from character variety, a character being a set of hit and hurtboxes and a few unique mechanics, are more shallow than I, who enjoy the core of the competitive spirit, in playing to win and the most powerful manipulation of the mechanics present? I say so.

 

[Mega Rayquaza]

Not as bad as MK in Brawl tbh
Also he's gonna get nerfed if enough people complain about him watch

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

The game itself doesn't lend well to being watched.
I value depth of gameplay mechanics over viability of my favorite characters.

Should I hazard to say that people who derive their enjoyment from character variety, a character being a set of hit and hurtboxes and a few unique mechanics, are more shallow than I, who enjoy the core of the competitive spirit, in playing to win and the most powerful manipulation of the mechanics present? I say so.

I don't necessarily agree with your view, but I suppose this is an inappropriate place for such debate.

 

[Jaedrik]

"the chat will soon go off on whatever tangent, trollish or otherwise, because the gameplay is just so dreadfully boring to watch" I think you should read the chat more often because the chat isn't trolling because the gameplay is boring. They are trolling because that's why they even go to the stream.

Non, sir!

As a mod of CT and VGBC, I can easily tell, people get far more involved in the game when, say, Melee is going on. Chat collectively goes "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH" or something and gets hyped quite frequently, even in pools. I wish I could say the same for Smash 4. Project M is in between, closer to Melee level chat hype, but it's INCREASING. But, after a certain point, it doesn't matter, because for the big tournaments we always have chat crises, and that's when Chibo puts Nightbot on hardcore mode, or I put slow on 420 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edit: too bad my Twitch has been butts recently. I can't watch streams

 

[thehard]

why would you want to cater to twitch chat

there are thousands of others viewing a smash 4 stream at any given time and not spamming residentsleepers because, surprise, they are actually absorbed in the match going on

 

[GeZ]

People saying the game is meant to be played, not watched, probably haven't been in the FGC for very long.

Being hype for streaming/ watching is a huge part of enjoying a fighting game.

 

[thehard]

spamming chat does not equate to being hyped, is what i'm saying. many viewers outright block twitch chat, lol

 

[DunnoBro]

Chat is generally an accurate representation of the community watching (when people aren't cherrypicking or exaggerating the amount of bad eggs) So "catering to chat" actually has some overlap with catering to the average player.

 

[Dissent]

The VAST majority of MvC2 matches were of the 6 viable out of 56 total characters, yet it still got incredible viewership during its grassroots VHS recording days.

Anyone who doesn't enjoy watching high level Diddy doesn't understand the talent involved and likely didn't enjoy watching Brawl.

 

[DunnoBro]

Anyone who doesn't enjoy watching high level Diddy doesn't understand the talent involved and likely didn't enjoy watching Brawl.

Brawl objectively has less spectator value than melee, and sm4sh, though.

And understanding something or not doesn't make it more entertaining. Unfortunately, winning top diddy matches do have a lot of overlap with each other.

However, I'm of the mind being "boring" isn't really a valid discredit against a playstyle. But it is worrying how difficult it is to discern intermediate diddy play from pro at times.

At least metaknight was good because he had options for every situation. Diddy just has a few really, really good ones.

 

[Steam]

Brawl objectively has less spectator value than melee, and sm4sh, though.

entertainment value is subjective.

 

[DunnoBro]

entertainment value is subjective.

There are objective variables we can both apply and observe the effects of with brawl. Slow, repetitive with many predictable advancements such as chain grabs or grab releases which failed to entice those outside the sphere of play for the most part, are very palpable issues.

However, I said spectator value. Not entertainment. There's some overlap but the main difference is that there's a more general application of "spectator value"

In fact, having to understand "the talent involved" to get the full entertainment value, subtracts from the spectator value.

 

[Steam]

There are objective variables we can both apply and observe the effects of with brawl. Slow, repetitive with many predictable advancements such as chain grabs or grab releases which failed to entice those outside the sphere of play for the most part, are very palpable issues.

still, you can't say it's objectively more entertaining, as that's simply a subjective matter that varies between people. but I'd definitely agree it's generally more appealing to peoples' tastes. though I for one would much rather watch a smash 4 stream than a melee stream.

 

[DunnoBro]

still, you can't say it's objectively more entertaining

Regardless of if I can, or can't, I didn't.

 

[TimeSmash]

Don't watch it then? Go play the game instead.

This post pretty much summarizes everything. Why is this thread still open even?

 

[Steam]

Regardless of if I can, or can't, I didn't.

really the two things go hand in hand. Entertainment value would just introduce other factors such as being able to appreciate the talent involved. By and large people hate brawl because it's slow and like melee because it's fast.

 

[Jaedrik]

entertainment value is subjective.

True, partially, but he means that, objectively, less people subjectively value watching Brawl over the examples he provided. *clicks view more posts button* and you guys cleared that up :D

why would you want to cater to twitch chat

there are thousands of others viewing a smash 4 stream at any given time and not spamming residentsleepers because, surprise, they are actually absorbed in the match going on

This is likely the truth, but, unlike you, I won't pretend to know the preferences of those who prefer silence. Oh, and what Dunnobro said after your posts.

still, you can't say it's objectively more entertaining, as that's simply a subjective matter that varies between people. but I'd definitely agree it's generally more appealing to peoples' tastes. though I for one would much rather watch a smash 4 stream than a melee stream.

Ehh, nnn, nah. There's no disputing tastes, true, but humans have a fundamental unity which can be demonstrated to draw out, at the very least vague, ideas of the objective superiority of one medium of entertainment over another.

This post pretty much summarizes everything. Why is this thread still open even?

Because this is a discussion for people who care about discussing these things, not for people like you and Reila.

 

[GeZ]

entertainment value is subjective.

That's true, but if the majority of viewers enjoy it less than the other games, then it is objectively less entertaining, yeah?

 

[Steam]

That's true, but if the majority of viewers enjoy it less than the other games, then it is objectively less entertaining, yeah?

no, it just happens to be more entertaining to most people. saying something is objectively more entertaining would imply people who prefer other watching games like brawl are "wrong".

 

[Jaedrik]

no, it just happens to be more entertaining to most people. saying something is objectively more entertaining would imply people who prefer other watching games like brawl are "wrong".

No. Rather, it would imply that their tastes are odd.

 

[DunnoBro]

Popularity is a factor but not the deciding one. Rather the variables that lead to the amount of popularity are deciding. I.e what makes a game fun to watch. How difficult it LOOKS may be a factor, but how difficult it IS? Only for those sufficiently conditioned to find it.

In the end though, Diddy isn't really ruining anything. Not yet, i mean wobbling never ruined melee right?

 

[Gah777]

How to effectively nerf Diddy:

1) Increased initial knock back on all moves, but lowered know back growth.
2) Lower hit stun on all moves.
3) Lower damage on all moves by ~1%

What this does:

Strings and combos are harder to connect since moves will push the opponent out of range and they'll be able to react faster. Any combos or strings that still remain will deal less damage over all. This will make Diddy mains really work for damage and kills.

Keep Diddy's speed, Banana, and Peanut gun intact since that's really what differentiates him from other characters.

You could also add more end lag onto U-Air, D-Throw, and a few other moves, but the three listed above would be the most ideal, imo.

 

[RESET Vao]

Couldn't agree more with the notion that MK was way more boring (And overdone) than Diddy. Characters with particularly strong options are going to be using their particularly strong options to win. I can't stand when people claim that players are unoriginal for playing those characters the same way as the last guy - Denying yourself of a character's most powerful options is the stupidest thing you can do, especially if you're playing to win. I can't imagine a Ness with Rage grabbing someone at high percent at the edge, then doing an up throw to be an edgelord. Will he ****, he's going to backthrow because it is a great option.

Also worth noting that I'd rather watch a SM4SH stream than a Melee stream also, agreeing with Steam is not something I'm known to do often but he makes good points here.

I digress, catering to stream viewers should certainly not be a higher priority than winning your matches in a tournament.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

Data point of one, but I don't actually mind seeing a lot of diddy. It's nice seeing a character that has actual combos.

 

[GeZ]

no, it just happens to be more entertaining to most people. saying something is objectively more entertaining would imply people who prefer other watching games like brawl are "wrong".

Nah, it would mean they have different taste.

Though in my opinion as a long time member of the FGC, Brawl is the most boring fighting game to watch, bar none.

 

[Weeman]

I'm pretty sure Diddy Kong was always really good ever since the 3DS version came out, hack even after the patch i would use him and people would compliment me if i did well with him, or give me advice if i didn't.
Now all i get when i use him is "Tierfag" kind of insults and overall negativity, what happened to sudenly make everyone think that Diddy is the new Meta Knight?

 

[DeLux]

Probably a question for either the social or metagame thread. This doesn't need its own thread.