Diamonds in the Rough: The South Team at FC

[DoH]

That hurts Wobbles.

 

[Xelic]

I had to play against Chad at FC6 in one of my pools, and he's good. <3

 

[artarian]

rob how could you?

 

[Mr.C]

I OWN

the message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to atleast 10 characters.

 

[forkgirl]

I will probably be playing for west if I'm able to go at all, and if I want to participate in crews.

what?! But you are on OUR power ranking list. They even said they were gonna take you off of theirs soon you are a texan now!

 

[artarian]

what?! But you are on OUR power ranking list. They even said they were gonna take you off of theirs soon you are a texan now!

mhmmm, thats right!

 

[Velox]

...

...

Why don't you wait until FC registration is over (it'll take like a day I'm sure from when it starts), then ask the Kishes who from the South actually registered, THEN create a team.


I've never known JF to be cocky in all the time I've been around him.

I'm much more cocky than JF, let's all complain about me.

 

[chaddd]

Blah blah blah Texas rants about PMS and ****, and a tiny acknowledgement of Florida's worth = what I gleaned from the topic. Anyway, throw some Chad (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uTSqdQ3Tgxg , http://youtube.com/watch?v=BLk-O8CYHwI , http://youtube.com/watch?v=G2aBiqRk8NY) on that team when you get to South Bend and realize you don't have enough players.

Ewwwwww. That fight of me makes me want to go to sleep.

 

[Wobbles]

I'm not a TX player, I'm an AZ player. I don't identify with TX at all, to be honest.

A big part of it is because I just don't feel welcomed much by the community here. Having to win tournaments before people say positive things about me is kind of bleh. Emphasis on the "tournamentS" because even after Evo South many of you said I wasn't good and only a sparse few people were friendly to me.

Not trying to be bitter, but I just don't feel at home in TX; I don't feel that I have many friends here.

 

[chaddd]

I'm not a TX player, I'm an AZ player. I don't identify with TX at all, to be honest.

A big part of it is because I just don't feel welcomed much by the community here. Having to win tournaments before people say positive things about me is kind of bleh. Emphasis on the "tournamentS" because even after Evo South many of you said I wasn't good and only a sparse few people were friendly to me.

Not trying to be bitter, but I just don't feel at home in TX; I don't feel that I have many friends here.

You can't ever stop the haters, man. Personally, I think you're awesome. I came from the Marvel vs Capcom 2 community (on shoryuken), and the fact that the IC's infinite is looked down upon makes me laugh. It's not like Chu wasn't using it, either. People will hate because you win with something they COULD be winning with, but they choose to hate on you because they find that having a target to direct their anger at somehow makes it okay that they can't get around it. I've known for a long time that using anything allowed to win is fair game. It's the same thing as having smash n00bs tell you you're being cheap for edgehogging them so they can't grab the ledge. It's all relative. Don't let the **** get you down, you're always welcome in Georgia if I have anything to say about it.

 

[5.0.5.]

I'm not a TX player, I'm an AZ player. I don't identify with TX at all, to be honest.

A big part of it is because I just don't feel welcomed much by the community here. Having to win tournaments before people say positive things about me is kind of bleh. Emphasis on the "tournamentS" because even after Evo South many of you said I wasn't good and only a sparse few people were friendly to me.

Not trying to be bitter, but I just don't feel at home in TX; I don't feel that I have many friends here.

dont worry wobbles i think your a cool guy and you shouldnt play for a team that you dont want to

 

[artarian]

i really wonder how many people from south west are going for sure.....

also, besides florida and texas, what other states are considered south? i assume all the states between texas and florida along the gulf ...

 

[-Chad-]

I'm gonna be at FC.

Chaddd has a beast Ganon. (You're going right?)

 

[Galt]

I'm pretty sure that any new player who came to a new community and won a tournament by using a single trick, regardless of what that trick is, would need a little time to convince the community that he's good. You could've convinced us more quickly if you hadn't relied so heavily on that one trick from the beginning, but regardless, I don't think there's anyone left who disputes Wobbles's skill in Texas, as is evidenced by the current power rankings. We're not a particularly conservative bunch around here, even if we do tend toward hero worship like most any other group.

I still think the infinite is lame, whatever players from other games might think about it (other games are other games; this one is completely different from every other fighter), but I don't particularly care about it anymore. If you want to force everyone who fights you to camp you the entire match, that's your prerogative.

Actually, I'm currently interested in seeing how Luigi would do vs. the ICs... Maybe we should try that, next time I make it to a tournament, Wobbles. I have a theory that Luigi has some pretty nasty tricks for that matchup.

(Uhh... Let's not reopen that debate, though, because... drugs are bad.)

 

[G@BE]

DoH.... what about me?

 

[dcx1287]

I'm pretty sure that any new player who came to a new community and won a tournament by using a single trick, regardless of what that trick is, would need a little time to convince the community that he's good.

The problem with this is your assumption does not fit Wobbles' case. Wobbles was never a new player to the community. He didn't just rise up out of nowhere to beat Caveman.

He's been an incredibly high level player for years. He was just always underrated because, for some odd reason, very few people acknowledged his achievements, and very few people gave him due credit.

 

[Ronnie]

I've always liked wobbles. Dont leave Robbbb!

I have beaten some of the top 10 in tx so I think I deserve a shot.

 

[cHaNg-sTa]

Wobbles was a good player before he even left for AZ. Despite the size of TX smash being at a pretty high number. Wobbles is still one of the earlier smashers. Just that for awhile, he would finish below Drew and I in Dallas tournaments, but now he's back from AZ and proven that he's gotten a lot better than most of TX will ever be.

Wobbles, I'm sorry you feel that TX is no longer your home of Smash, butknow that you still have friends here and I'll support you despite my opposing opinion to wobbling.

 

[artarian]

omg registration is finally up!

 

[Galt]

The problem with this is your assumption does not fit Wobbles' case. Wobbles was never a new player to the community. He didn't just rise up out of nowhere to beat Caveman.

He's been an incredibly high level player for years. He was just always underrated because, for some odd reason, very few people acknowledged his achievements, and very few people gave him due credit.

How about the fact that it was a single-elimination tournament, then, in which [third] place went to a player with whom I was entirely unfamiliar? There are multiple reasons why TX players didn't immediately recognize Wobbles, and prejudice is only one. He was ranked high in AZ, sure, but AZ's power rankings are very volatile; I remember when a Y.Link player jumped suddenly to third place, then fell again.

I just think no one could've expected to be immediately considered a top player based on that one EVO South tournament, and I don't believe that anyone doubted him after his second victory. So I don't think we've treated him unfairly at all, at least not the people who actually know what they're talking about.

 

[bluezaft]

You were entirely unfamiliar with Caveman? The guy that's been considered Texas' best player for...I don't even know how long?

 

[Galt]

Oh, right... I meant XZalla, not Cave. No, Cave and I go way back. We're like brothers. He's Mexican, but we like to pretend he's from Mars.

 

[DoH]

Ouch, I'm unfamiliar Galt?

 

[AltF4]

Ohh, Wobbles... Az loves you. You'll always have a room at Goop's place if you want it.

(I love volunteering Manny's apt. without informing him)

 

[dcx1287]

How about the fact that it was a single-elimination tournament, then, in which [third] place went to a player with whom I was entirely unfamiliar?

It doesn't matter. The fact is, Wobbles defeated Caveman (in one set) under tournament settings. That was another high profile win to add to his already stellar record.

I just think no one could've expected to be immediately considered a top player based on that one EVO South tournament, and I don't believe that anyone doubted him after his second victory. So I don't think we've treated him unfairly at all, at least not the people who actually know what they're talking about.

Why did he even need the win over Caveman to be considered a top player? He didn't. Want to know why? Because he was always a high level player by virtue of his slew of high profile wins in Arizona and California. It's not his fault that people who knew nothing about the tournament scene chose to disregard the pertinent tournament victories that already validated his position as top Texas smash player the moment he returned from AZ.

 

[Galt]

I DON'T REMEMBER THE PLACEMENT ORDER FROM EVO. I concede. XZalla. I'm assuming he was fourth. Sad face.

I don't think that's how it works, Anupam. No one ever said he was bad, but no one expected him to be able to come to Texas and immediately beat one of the best. Winning against AZ is all fine and whatever, but that's completely different from winning in TX. Would you expect anyone below Taj and Forward on AZ's rankings to be able to beat the top TX players, excluding Wobbles? No, and Wobbles was (usually) ranked below those two. So there's no way to translate the victories, since TX and AZ players (almost) never meet.

He was never even excluded from our power rankings. He might not've been as high as you wanted the first time (I think he was at 7th?), but you have to remember that TX power rankings mean absolutely nothing and that most of the players considered to be in the top 10 are very close in skill. So of course we couldn't get a particularly accurate read on Wobbles with just one tournament victory, even if it was over Caveman. After all, Jordan's beaten Caveman, and has yet to lose to Wobbles, but they're both still ranked above him. And Wes hasn't even fought Wobbles in tournament yet.

In summary, I think ANYONE would've faced the same difficulties which Wobbles has encountered. If he's caught any flak from TX players, it was never because they thought he was bad; it was because they didn't like his methods. And that's another matter entirely.

Edit: Of course you weren't unfamiliar, DoH. You've been in my dorm, along with Jordan. And we road to that one tournament together and I watched you kill Rob$ with the d-air to up-air combo, which I'd never seen done before. And then we went to Whataburger, which is always an excellent way to end a night of Smash.

 

[dcx1287]

Winning against AZ is all fine and whatever, but that's completely different from winning in TX. Would you expect anyone below Taj and Forward on AZ's rankings to be able to beat the top TX players, excluding Wobbles?

Sure. Why not? By the way, Wobbles was not exclusively ranked below Forward and Taj as you claim. There was a relatively long streak where he was above Forward.

He was never even excluded from our power rankings. He might not've been as high as you wanted the first time (I think he was at 7th?), but you have to remember that TX power rankings mean absolutely nothing and that most of the players considered to be in the top 10 are very close in skill.

It's not about the power rankings at all. Wobbles didn't care that he was ranked 7th and ranked 3rd or whatever.

Honestly the power rankings are kind of a joke. They are just a little side project to keep everyone entertained, but deep down everyone realizes they are kind of a joke.

The issue here is - most people in person and online basically told Wobbles in one form another that he didn't deserve the recognition he was getting. For example, people from the midwest quoted the results

"1. Wobbles
2. Caveman"

and sincerely asked if it was a joke.

A lot of texas players harbored similar feelings. You see, that's the problem here. Their feelings totally hinge on your (and their) assmption that being ranked 3rd in AZ is not good enough to automatically be considered a top player in Texas.

Wobbles was ranked above Forward for a number of weeks. Ask anybody from the Midwest, EC, WC how good Forward is now. Most people consider him top 10/top 15 in the U.S. now, in fact - commendation that eclipses anything that any of our texas players could derive.

If he's caught any flak from TX players, it was never because they thought he was bad

Exactly. And, the fact is, those texas players who thought he was not good enough to be considered one of the top players in Texas had no clue of his tournament record.

The entire point is - if Wobbles was really this "newcomer" to high level play as most Texas players erroneously thought he was, then his cold reception in Texas might've been warranted.

 

[bluezaft]

Let's see, Wobbles has just said he doesn't like Texas because people act unfriendly to him...definitely time to start arguing that he deserved to be treated as poorly as he was! Brilliant idea, way to give our state a good name!

Wobbles didn't say everybody should have assumed he'd beat Caveman, he said everybody shouldn't have acted like such jerks. He was flat-out insulted several times (mainly by Rob$) after EVO and a lot of other people implied that it was just a fluke. Even though he's from Texas, he was pretty much new to the scene and he was being treated with a lot of insensitivity. Way to continue the tradition. I know you aren't at all saying he's bad, but do you honestly think this is the time to argue this?

(Edit: this post wasn't aimed at dcx, he's been really nice)

 

[Galt]

I see two flawed arguments against my quotes there (I said Wobbles was "usually" below Forward, and I pointed out from the beginning that I knew the power rankings were worthless), but I really don't think we're disagreeing much here. You can't blame TX players for what the West Coast guys said, especially since they've never seen the two fight. And I just said that normally being ranked 3rd in AZ *does not give us an automatic reason* to believe he would beat the top TX players, because any other AZ player in the 3rd spot wouldn't be given the same credit. And, again, the AZ rankings are very volatile.

I really don't think you can successfully argue that we should have instantly recognized him as a top TX player beyond that he should be in the top 10--which is what he got, right from the beginning. At the very least, I haven't seen you give a solid reason yet. There is simply always going to be a trial period for new players, which is essentially what Wobbles was in the TX community. Even SOS is going to experience it (and arguably is already, depending on how you view certain speculative MM outcome opinions which will not be mentioned here). And when Wobbles left TX, he was *not* one of the top players. So there's no reason why we should've automatically accepted him based on past performances, either.

And if people told Wobbles that he didn't deserve the place, that's to be expected for anyone beating a legendary player suddenly, and all he had to do to answer them/shut them up was continue to win--which he did, and now he doesn't have that problem. Which is why I don't think there was an abnormal problem from the beginning. It may be that people underestimated him, but now they've realized their mistake. He even underestimated himself, if you remember, when discussing his EVO victory over Cave: he said himself that he thought that if he had continued fighting Cave, Cave would've started beating him. But that didn't happen. So how can we blame other people for not thinking Wobbles should beat Cave when Wobbles himself didn't even believe it in the beginning?

He has gotten a chilly reception. But if he didn't use the infinite, I think it's pretty much certain that that wouldn't be the case. The method is more to blame than the perception of the player; if anything, the method only encouraged people to underestimate him, because they assumed that only a lower-level player would resort to that kind of thing in serious play.

I really don't think I have much else to say on that point... I think I like to argue.

Edit for Bluezaft: I don't really understand what you're trying to say, but I'll say this: Were TX players jerks to him? Sure. But TX is full of jerks all the time, like any state. Competition only brings out the best in the best people; everyone else gets panicky and defensive and snappish. I agree that they treated him unfairly, but they do that to pretty much everyone. And I don't even think it was completely unfair, as you might gather from the above post. I don't want to sound like I agree with the average TX player, but I also don't think they were entirely wrong. I don't care about being a nice guy at all--I care about being a fair guy. So I'm not going to go out of my way to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I don't know exactly what I'm saying just now, but I didn't know exactly what you were saying, either, so maybe it's to be expected. End.

 

[B-Will]

Yeah, I think dcx said it perfectly when he said that you guys were not up-to-date on Wobbles' wins outside of Texas. As dcx said, there was a reason why wobbles was above omar for the longest time and above forward for a while too.

Anyways, rob = too good. Come back to AZ.

 

[Mr.C]

i wonder why mr.c isnt on the rankings?

i just dont know.

 

[JesusFreak]

It's because Mr.C is too sexy and so people are afraid.

 

[Jake13]

Where is Drew when you need him?

 

[cHaNg-sTa]

The main issue here doesn't even lie with power rankings. It's simple and easy. Wobbles feels more welcome from the AZ crowd than the TX crowd, which I can easily tell from the crap TX did give, and some still do, to Wobbles compared to all the support I see AZ ppl give Wobbles all the time.

This isn't about a freakin number on a power rankings list.

 

[Ronnie]

jake man u are so ****ing hawt omfg i just wanna spank u profusely

 

[Hylian]

Wow DoH your topics seem to cause a lot of arguing on things that have nothing to do with the topic at all >_>.

Who has registered for FC so far? I registered yesterday.

 

[Galt]

The main issue here doesn't even lie with power rankings. It's simple and easy. Wobbles feels more welcome from the AZ crowd than the TX crowd, which I can easily tell from the crap TX did give, and some still do, to Wobbles compared to all the support I see AZ ppl give Wobbles all the time.

This isn't about a freakin number on a power rankings list.

Everyone knows that. But of course AZ supports him more; he just left there after being one of their top players. And of course TX supports him less; he's become one of our top players, but still considers himself to be an AZ player. If I were in his position, I'd probably just attribute my reception to shock and conservatism, and think of TX now as a different scene from the one which initially mistrusted him, because it basically is. I don't mind that he thinks of AZ as his home, because it seems obvious to me that he should, even if he had been completely welcomed here.

But what is there to say, really? That's competitive gaming. Being good means making people mad. Beating their favorite players means making people mad. Upsetting the balance they thought they understood means making people mad.

Edit: Forget the rest of what I originally wrote here. I'll just get to the point.

I invoked the power rankings, not to suggest that his position on the list was important or has made him dissatisfied or anything of the sort, but to show that the other players' *perceptions* of the rankings, both from here and AZ's lists, *are* important factors in how well people will expect a player to perform. And I don't think there's a flaw anywhere in my argument to that effect.

I think his reception in TX was very much predictable and would've been nearly the same for anyone who came in and beat one of our top players with what many people consider to be a cheap trick which is supposed to require no particular skill. Now that performance has been repeated, so anyone who continues to nay-say is pretty much to be considered irrelevant and should be ignored. Show me where someone from TX is actually saying he doesn't deserve his top player status, and maybe I'll have more to say, but I don't think you'll be able to.

 

[samusedaway]

This is ridiculous. First, Galt, this riding on the fence talk of he deserved his cold welcome and then turning around to say that you support him completely now is just plain unproductive. Plus, the reasons you give for the welcome he recieved are unjustified. I assume the reason why he likes to consider himself still an AZ player is because TX people were such jerks to him, while AZ accepted him from the start. Wobbles even lived here before he moved to AZ. Though he wasn't particularly recognized at that time he was still a good player often placing right below drew and chang. The fact that he moved and came back with more skill shouldn't have been such a great shock as to put people into disbelief of his skill.

People getting mad over their "favorite player" getting beat is completely irrational. Its like saying well our local hero is just so skilled no one is better, but in saying that the skill of outside the area heros are ignored. Then when someone from the outside comes in and beats the trash out of the local guy everyone gets mad and hates the new guy. Whereas if they had taken into account the skill of outside people, the win would not have been unexpected.

I'm sure Wobbles had an idea of how some people would feel after winning using the infinite and had expected to not let things bug him while they did, but the hazing about it lasted way longer than it should have.

Hopefully those detractor people, as you say, now recognize the results that Wobbles has worked hard to give them and will give him the respect he deserves.

You really confuse me sometimes with your arguements Galt, so if I misinterpreted something please tell me.

Of course last to note is that this is supposed to be DoH's thread for the South team at FC, and everyone should really drop the arguement. I understand Galt will probably want to rebutt my comments, but after that everyone should stick to the South team for FC posts.....

 

[Dr Drew the Dragon]

A few things to consider...

1. Wobbles might not really have a choice in this matter. The Kishes try to be pretty strict about who plays for what team, and it'll probably be hard to convince them to let someone living in Texas to join the West team. Of course this is coming from the guy that convinced Prime to not only let him make a "southwest" team but let Chu Dat be on it, so it's still possible. Either way Wobbles might be faced with the choice of "south or nothing".

2.

Of course last to note is that this is supposed to be DoH's thread for the South team at FC, and everyone should really drop the arguement. I understand Galt will probably want to rebutt my comments, but after that everyone should stick to the South team for FC posts.....

That pretty much sums it up, this is supposed to be about the FC South team, and trying to defend it's amazing 2nd place finish last year

I don't want to have to close this and start a new one.

 

[Galt]

The only thing I want to say is that I don't think he *deserved* his reception, so much as that it was to be completely *expected* due to various factors which caused people to doubt his skill and therefore to discredit his victories. I don't think the reaction was rational, exactly, so much as it was predictable in its semi-rationality (at best). I support Wobbles because I've seen him play in person and I know he has repeated his wins, but if he still had only EVO to his credit in TX, I don't think it would be unjustified to not yet completely grant him the status as a top player. But since he *has* continued to do well, there's no longer any plausible reason to doubt it, and anyone who does is marginalized and the TX community as a whole should not be punished for the sins of the few. Most of us recognize Wobbles now as a top player, and if he wants to feel like this is his new home, I hope he will give people a second chance of sorts to correct their previous attitudes and will treat them well in return.

That's the thesis of my arguments. The justification for my points can be found in my previous posts. Wobbles (ICs) vs. Galt (Luigi) gogogo.