DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[ranmaru]

I still want Rockin lynched.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

He's technically following the wording of the rules but not the spirit. It's still toxic, anti town, and just plain unfun.

As scum, aren't you supposed to try to get away with anti-town?

Inactivity as a decision, the game was designed for. When the landscape of the game allows for this level of lurking to be considered maybe the lesser of many evils, then you have a problem.


But I'm gonna stop talking about that now because we're clogging the thread. I wanted to hear what people said because I would prefer to play in a more active setting if we can actually play and there's no way in hell you'll lock me down for two games.

 

[Pythag]

Inactivity as a decision, the game was designed for. When the landscape of the game allows for this level of lurking to be considered maybe the lesser of many evils, then you have a problem.

straight up haven't thought of prod dodging as a mechanic. That changes things considerably.

would a remake consist of all players? or would it just a smaller game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I still want Rockin lynched.

I would love a Rockin lynch, would love a Lore lynch, and would still enjoy an FF lynch.

Do you think we should put off lynching inactive slots?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

straight up haven't thought of prod dodging as a mechanic. That changes things considerably.

would a remake consist of all players? or would it just a smaller game.

Ideally people who can't actually play wouldn't sign up this time and we could shrink the size to something a little more manageable.

 

[ranmaru]

I was thinking Day 3 for inactive lynch but if you can convince me why it is better to do so today I would consider it.

 

[Rockin]

I am certainly okay with just starting over. Maybe even recheck with all of our alive/dead players if they have the time to play mafia.

 

[Pythag]

Honestly, I don't want to, but JTB seems like the perfect balance.
people have reads on him, but he's also not the most active chum.
a nice compromise on paper.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was thinking Day 3 for inactive lynch but if you can convince me why it is better to do so today I would consider it.

Same thing it always is.

They have to be dealt with. Either you deal with them or you risk not being alive to deal with them later and they might can wiggle out of it. You can quickly end up in a theoretical LyLo with 5 of

JTB, Nabe, Lore, Spak, FF, and Tom

In that world, it's reaaaaaaaaaal hard to stop a scum team that includes players who are playing decently well from lynching theoretically town slots that aren't here.

If you lynch the ones that aren't around, they at least have to interact with someone who will push back and be around to claim and such.

 

[ranmaru]

If I were less confident in Rockin I would consider it but I don't want to let him slip. I think I will want to risk it for Day 3.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

He's technically following the wording of the rules but not the spirit. It's still toxic, anti town, and just plain unfun.

but that doesnt mean we have to go against the spirit of the game

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If I were less confident in Rockin I would consider it but I don't want to let him slip. I think I will want to risk it for Day 3.

consider what? starting a new game or lynching an inactive?

 

[ranmaru]

Lynching an inactive.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I will do this song and dance with you later, but first I'm going to make an offer. I do appreciate that though.

We have a game currently plagued by inactivity and we have a group of people I am happy to be playing with. I offer that we call this game off, let everyone who wants to continue to play into a new one, bring back our dead friends, and run a different semi-open set-up like this one for a smaller playercount.

I'm not going to play two games in a row, so if we play this one out, I wouldn't want to do another, but I am enjoying this game and would be willing to start over.

Thoughts (@mods please also weigh in)?

i'm not opposed

though i agree with gorf / others that coasting and being inactive is a valid strategy and not against the rules. self policing activity is pretty fundamental to mafia (at least on this site)

anyway i have a few more thoughts regarding this inactivity stuff, but im just waiting for other slots to chip in (which has been an ongoing struggle in this game)

 

[ranmaru]

Thread died. Alright, so what are we going to do? Are we just waiting for other players to respond to Ryker right now?

 

[Pythag]

Thread died. Alright, so what are we going to do? Are we just waiting for other players to respond to Ryker right now?

Both Tom and UP said they’d post later, id like to see their thoughts

 

[#HBC | Kary]

People are really suggesting a Nabe lynch as though it's a good idea? Doesn't tell me anything, not interested. I thought maybe Mac started this just to see who would jump on. I still want to lynch Lore but I could see myself voting JTB.

UtopianPoyzin you're dead weight right now. Vote for somebody.

 

[Spak]

So you're saying that the player I tunneled a case on wouldn't be important to read upon a scum!Lore flip? Questionable imo.

Fair enough, but I'm like 90% sure you guys aren't SvS. Your interaction didn't read as such, and I think that my gut is strong enough for me to say that with a good amount of confidence. It might be an oversight that I'll have to eat my words over in the postgame, but I don't have a whole lot of time to dedicate to the game so in the interest of maximizing my possible impact, this is an exception I'm willing to take.

It feels like you're more accounting and preparing for a town!Lore flip lately rather than the inverse. Unless I missed a post. When you return from work, I'd like to hear what you'd do with a scum!Lore flip.

With a scum!Lore flip, I'll look through most of your scumleans again, Uto will become a strong town read, and I'll reconsider your stated opinions through a confirmed town!Lore lens (meaning that I can drop all suspicious of you trying to be deceptive or misrepresent slots). Based on that final read, I'll see if I think your cases hold enough weight for me to seriously reconsider slots.

I'll double check to ensure that I'm right, but it's weird that you'd mostly only plan for town!Lore if you have me as a scum read, asked about it or not. You also had an opportunity here to swerve from that and share your scum!Lore possibility thoughts.

Like I said, it's because nobody's asked me what I'd do on a scum!Lore flip. It'd be kinda weird for me to say "Hmmmmm, I'll really look forward to when X gets killed; this is my plan if they flip scum!" I already presented why I find you fishy, and while I've liked your D2 contribution beyond super early in the phase, you're still a scum lean in my book.

Are you saying that me v Lore is TvS Spak ? I'm town, Lore claimed as town and I'm pretty sure their being truthful on that front. Kinda seems like they were deflecting attention, but I can't blame them given that they were almost wagoned. I don't think Lore is the play, haven't had a chance to voice that opinion yet.

Nabe lynch makes no sense. We get nothing from lynching them out of the game compared to other targets such as JTB, who I have expressed concerns with in the past. Major hmms from the Nabe wagon department, however I would love a replacement in that slot if Nabe cannot keep up with the game.

Sigh, yep. Scumreads coming in the next post. Been really busy lately, hopefully I can regain my activity very shortly.

I'm saying that I think you v. Lore is TvS. It's possible that it's TvT, but I'm pretty sure that Lore is scum. Lore's play has always been tempermental this game, but at this point it feels like she's just being a loose cannon. For instance:

I 100% believe that Spak is gearing up for lynching me then going for Utopian upon my Town flip, while giving himself wiggle room to get out of a second mislynch with Utopian.

This is completely contradictory to what I already told her. I directly said I thought Lore v. Uto is SvS not even ten posts earlier, and then she's accusing me of trying to kill Lore and then go after Uto.

I'll admit that I should be going a little harder on Pythag, but I've been caught up for all of a day and haven't really had that much interaction with him aside from the question. I've just sorta been trying to digest everything and observe for the time being, since I'm still thinking through a couple thousand posts' worth of content. I also wrote "strongest scumlean at the moment" before #700's since I was taking notes when I was seeing things, then forgot to go back and delete it later. He was a strong scumlean at the start of D1, and he hasn't really done anything aside from ask (admittedly goo) questions of other people. I haven't gotten a good idea of where his head's at which, while I acknowledge it's my fault for not asking, I've just not had a chance to interact with him heavily.

I feel like the hammer is less important than the vote itself. I genuinely believe the fact that it was a hammer could have been an accident, but it was still a super rushed vote. After this case against Spak/JeXs, I find myself looking much more negatively at it.

Part of me is starting to think that you're town because I honestly can't see intelligent scum tunneling townies so hard, but at the same time I still don't find your jumps in logic comforting. You seem to spin tales and assume everyone should take them as truth, which is a super dangerous position to take as town and a super easy trap to fall into as scum (since you have to mentally build up a fake narrative that people would believe anyways). I wasn't gonna bring this up in case it's just playstyle, but one of the biggest problems I have with your play from a town perspective is that I don't see you analyzing what you see and coming to conclusions through that, but I see you trying to see people as scum and re-reading in that light.

I feel like the hammer is less important than the vote itself. I genuinely believe the fact that it was a hammer could have been an accident, but it was still a super rushed vote. After this case against Spak/JeXs, I find myself looking much more negatively at it.

A vote so rushed that eight other people happened to get on before JeXs? I'm not a fan of defending my previous slot holders (since I don't know what they were thinking any more than you guys), but upon re-reading, I feel like Doop was pretty obviously the move by that point in time. If scum wanted to get on the wagon, I think they would've already been there.

 

[Spak]

Modkill ends the day if they're town, so we don't gain a phase in that case.

And in general, modkill ruins the balance of the set-up. Inactivity kills games and the best way around it is to self police.

My bad, I forgot that modkills end the phase.

I will do this song and dance with you later, but first I'm going to make an offer. I do appreciate that though.

We have a game currently plagued by inactivity and we have a group of people I am happy to be playing with. I offer that we call this game off, let everyone who wants to continue to play into a new one, bring back our dead friends, and run a different semi-open set-up like this one for a smaller playercount.

I'm not going to play two games in a row, so if we play this one out, I wouldn't want to do another, but I am enjoying this game and would be willing to start over.

Thoughts (@mods please also weigh in)?

It sounds like a good idea, but I also just caught up so I'm fairly neutral (kinda want a super hype setup where everyone's fairly active, kinda want two nights of catch-up to not go to waste ).

 

[Spak]

(admittedly goo) questions

*(admittedly good) questions

I saw the error and couldn't not correct it lol.

 

[Lore]

Kinda sick tonight so won't be active, and I'll reply to the post in full tomorrow. This part is just... Lol.

Part of me is starting to think that you're town because I honestly can't see intelligent scum tunneling townies so hard, but at the same time I still don't find your jumps in logic comforting. You seem to spin tales and assume everyone should take them as truth, which is a super dangerous position to take as town and a super easy trap to fall into as scum (since you have to mentally build up a fake narrative that people would believe anyways). I wasn't gonna bring this up in case it's just playstyle, but one of the biggest problems I have with your play from a town perspective is that I don't see you analyzing what you see and coming to conclusions through that, but I see you trying to see people as scum and re-reading in that light.

>does a read through and makes a single case against a player
"You're tunneling!"

****ing lmao

Vote: Spak

 

[Lore]

If me going through peoples' posts was just to make a case for them being scum, I wouldn't have a town read on Kary or Ran. I've done multiple readthroughs of other players too while gathering thoughts, with various results.

I'm appalled that you're accusing me of tunneling and "spinning tales," and I see it as a direct attempt at an attack on my character to discredit the argument.

Like seriously if I was tunneling right now, would I have multiple people on my scum list? Would I have you tied with Rockin as the one I want to go? It's hilarious that you've even said that after I made a single case post against you.

 

[Spak]

If me going through peoples' posts was just to make a case for them being scum, I wouldn't have a town read on Kary or Ran. I've done multiple readthroughs of other players too while gathering thoughts, with various results.

I'm appalled that you're accusing me of tunneling and "spinning tales," and I see it as a direct attempt at an attack on my character to discredit the argument.

Like seriously if I was tunneling right now, would I have multiple people on my scum list? Would I have you tied with Rockin as the one I want to go? It's hilarious that you've even said that after I made a single case post against you.

I blamed you for spinning tales because you were blatantly misrepresenting my position and drawing conclusions directly against my stated opinion. You were so blinded by your perception of my slot that you ignored my post clearly stating I though you v. Uto weren't SvS and drew the conclusion that I'm trying to kill you and then go after Uto D2. Even after I clarified that I didn't think re-reading your case on Uto would lead to me reading Uto as scum, you still made that claim.

You're not tunnelling in the manner of ignoring everyone else; you're tunnelling on my slot by internally painting it in such a skewed light that you're completely misrepresenting my position.

 

[Lore]

Lmao you in no way said definitively that you'd never read Utopian as S upon a town!Lore flip. You left yourself tons and tons of wiggle room to take literally any direction you wanted upon my flip:

Oh, you're right. In that case, I'll have to go back and read your UP case in the event that you flip Town. I skimmed it the first time around and remembered liking your responses to him more than his responses to you while the two of you were interacting, but in retrospect I think his gambit is likely a noob!Town tell. Unless your case is much stronger than I recall (I'm walking back to work so I can't check), it probably wouldn't lead me to a scum!Uto conclusion at this point. I'll take another look at your case tonight to make sure, though.

"I read him as likely town but I need to look at the case again tonight and/or upon your flip."

Yes, that definitely says a hard stance with no wiggle room.


I'm actually sick though, so this is my last post for the night.

 

[Lore]

Like ffs you even say that you remember liking my responses to Utopian more than his back, yet we are expected to believe you aren't saying you'll read Utopian as S upon my Town flip?

(this is my actual last post)

 

[Spak]

Lmao you in no way said definitively that you'd never read Utopian as S upon a town!Lore flip. You left yourself tons and tons of wiggle room to take literally any direction you wanted upon my flip:



"I read him as likely town but I need to look at the case again tonight and/or upon your flip."

Yes, that definitely says a hard stance with no wiggle room.


I'm actually sick though, so this is my last post for the night.

And I re-read the case, and it wasn't nearly good enough content to change my mind on the matter. As I've stated multiple times before and after that post, I really don't think you guys are SvS. I conceded that I'd re-read the post because I figured it wouldn't take too awful long, I thought it'd be a good gesture, and I wanted to be absolutely certain, but someone would've for sure mentioned that I saw you guys as not SvS if I went after Uto after a town!Lore flip due to how often it's been brought up. so congrats, you've cherrypicked the one comment that was even slightly unsure because I gave you the courtesy of re-reading your case.

Game aside, I hope you get better IRL.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Skimming the last few pages, which is inherently meaningless, I don't think Lore is scum. Mac seems off.

ranmaru Having a small active cast skews scumreads towards the active players, in my experience. Do you think any active player looks worse currently than they would if the whole cast were active?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Skimming the last few pages, which is inherently meaningless, I don't think Lore is scum. Mac seems off.

elaborate

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Let me catch my thoughts tomorrow and read who needs to be looked into

 

[ranmaru]

#HBC | Nabe No, not really.

 

[Rockin]

People are really suggesting a Nabe lynch as though it's a good idea? Doesn't tell me anything, not interested. I thought maybe Mac started this just to see who would jump on. I still want to lynch Lore but I could see myself voting JTB.

UtopianPoyzin you're dead weight right now. Vote for somebody.

I would still rather lynch Lore, but Nabe coasting by is/can be problematic in the future.

Unvote

Vote: Lore

 

[ranmaru]

Lore Get back on Rockin please. We can talk through Spak if you like.

 

[Lore]

And I re-read the case, and it wasn't nearly good enough content to change my mind on the matter. As I've stated multiple times before and after that post, I really don't think you guys are SvS. I conceded that I'd re-read the post because I figured it wouldn't take too awful long, I thought it'd be a good gesture, and I wanted to be absolutely certain, but someone would've for sure mentioned that I saw you guys as not SvS if I went after Uto after a town!Lore flip due to how often it's been brought up. so congrats, you've cherrypicked the one comment that was even slightly unsure because I gave you the courtesy of re-reading your case.

Game aside, I hope you get better IRL.

(thanks btw, I do feel better this morning)

I'm not sure if you read my post-by-post breakdown that includes all of your posts re: me, or if you're missing my point here.

The issue that I'm having is that you almost never gave a definitive, set-in-stone read on either me or Utopian. Pretty much every read past the first initial big catch up post included some clause that would let you wiggle out of it and change. Stuff like "I'll need to reread later" or "here's what I think but it could also totally be something else too." Like here, where you definitively say that you don't consider it SvS, but you immediately account for other possibilities and give yourself an out to go in one of three directions post flip:

Also, the only problem that I have with my personal list at the moment is that Uto and Lore are both on the scum side of it, and I don't think their interaction is SvS. So if Lore goes toDay and is scum I'll probably believe that Uto is town, but I also think that a town!Lore could feasibly still tunnel a town!Uto (although if both of them are town, I'm REALLY off-track lol).

Pretty much every post that involves your read on me or Utopian has this kind of language, and the main one that doesn't (Utopian post-gambit), you immediately backtrack on and reverse opinions after someone brings it up to you.

It's weird, and it's enough for me to have you as a scum read, especially after your defense went for an attack of character rather than just plain reasoning. Then combine it with JeXs behavior (and I will reply to your big post re: that and other stuff) and it just gets worse.

Lore Get back on Rockin please. We can talk through Spak if you like.

Fair, Rockin or Nabe is likely the play today if I'm not it. At this point I'm still fine with being the play if necessary, but I feel less strongly that I need to by lynched asap. Other slots are being discussed, scumhunting is happening, and we are no longer arguing in circles about me instead of dropping the hammer. My complaint has been addressed.

I'd include JTB in that, but it sounds like Gorf and others find it to go against the spirit of the game. I'd actually love a chill convo post-game about that, but I'm also starting to agree on self-policing being a necessary thing rather than just mod action.

Vote: Rockin


Also whether it's as town or scum, I don't think I've ever seen Rockin not vote for someone pushing his lynch, lol. I take his vote on me as a null tell.

 

[Lore]

EBWOP: "need to be lynched" rather than "need to by lynched." Typo.

 

[Lore]

I feel like the rest of Spak's big post was sufficiently covered by our conversation, hitting several of the topics that were in the big post. Spak Let me know if there's something I missed and that you'd like me to specifically answer.

Here's a bit that didn't get covered:

A vote so rushed that eight other people happened to get on before JeXs? I'm not a fan of defending my previous slot holders (since I don't know what they were thinking any more than you guys), but upon re-reading, I feel like Doop was pretty obviously the move by that point in time. If scum wanted to get on the wagon, I think they would've already been there.

I do agree that questioning you on JeXs is useless. Please try to understand our take on the situation, though.

Doop wasn't the play at that point, with twoish days left until deadline. He self voted, then it was a mad flurry of people dropping votes on him. It wasn't 8 people slowly hopping on, it was 4ish people being on then the rest leaping on after the self vote. It felt extraordinarily reactive from all players involved, which was weird.

 

[ranmaru]

If there are scum on the Doop wagon, it's after the Doop vote, or off the wagon, or a combination of the two. I also had plenty of concerns with Jex's play early game. Lore Talk to me about your point with Spak not interaction with Pythag as much. What does that mean?

 

[Lore]

If there are scum on the Doop wagon, it's after the Doop vote, or off the wagon, or a combination of the two. I also had plenty of concerns with Jex's play early game. Lore Talk to me about your point with Spak not interaction with Pythag as much. What does that mean?

It's exceedingly strange that he had Pythag as a full scum read then never touched on it again. If (and when imo) Spak flips Scum, it'd look particularly fishy with Doop having also had weird Pythag-related behavior.

Speaking of, I did in fact forget to reply to Spak's post on that matter:

I'll admit that I should be going a little harder on Pythag, but I've been caught up for all of a day and haven't really had that much interaction with him aside from the question. I've just sorta been trying to digest everything and observe for the time being, since I'm still thinking through a couple thousand posts' worth of content. I also wrote "strongest scumlean at the moment" before #700's since I was taking notes when I was seeing things, then forgot to go back and delete it later. He was a strong scumlean at the start of D1, and he hasn't really done anything aside from ask (admittedly goo) questions of other people. I haven't gotten a good idea of where his head's at which, while I acknowledge it's my fault for not asking, I've just not had a chance to interact with him heavily.

I mean if you forgot to delete that, you also forgot to delete him from your hard scum read list. I can understand forgetting things here and there; it's a complex game with TONS of pages to go through. But it's rare to have two players as scum reads, focus on one, and completely ignore the other until called out on it. You even had a direct interaction with Pythag where he asked you a question, a perfect opportunity to fire back.

It's just weird. I'll admit that it's always possible that you did in fact forget, but it's just a particularly odd thing to forget.

 

[Lore]

ranmaru Why are you so certain that scum wasn't on the wagon before the self vote?

 

[ranmaru]

Gorf has been pushing Doop for a while, and came back to him so it's consistent. Kary was the very first. (I realize I was wrong after his responses although still didn't like his quip to you) I'm town and Marshy is dead. The tail end of the wagon looks weirder.

 

[Lore]

Gorf has been pushing Doop for a while, and came back to him so it's consistent. Kary was the very first. (I realize I was wrong after his responses although still didn't like his quip to you) I'm town and Marshy is dead. The tail end of the wagon looks weirder.

Makes sense, thanks for putting it down for the record.