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#HBC | Laundry

#HBC | Laundry

Grand Sage of Swag
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Messages
3,954
Location
Under a bridge
3DS FC
3926-6895-8719
gorfdammit

zen why did you break the image

**** man

also good job xonar, masterful trolling, you're a real card, and we are all now firmly in the rice fields

:186:
 
adumbrodeus

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
Ashemu said:
thats fair. i still think circus is right about it being more cultural for women and more individual for men though. which actually is probably a better way to put it since it's not "worse" for one side, just different contextually
Click to expand...
Eh, I still disagree because the problems are still caused by gender roles. On one hand you have men's expectations that when they do certain things they are owed sex (socially trained in) that causes **** of women, and on the other hand you have the expectation of their partners that that men should always be on and willing whenever sex is offered that causes **** of men. Both are systemic therefore cultural issues and should be handled as systematic problems, just different systematic problems.

#HBC | Laundry said:
i'm aware of your point. the thing i'm trying to call back to is circus essentially saying that women being ***** is more important than men being *****. i have issues with that because i think the **** itself is important, less so the gender of the victim. the things you're talking about are important to consider because it helps people understand the extents of the issue and figure out ways to combat it, but they're not what i'm trying to get at.

:186:
Click to expand...
That's fair, I just thing it's important to separate them because if you treat them as the same issue, people tend to act like it's just ****ty human nature rather then recognizing the gendered issues behind both.

Circus said:
It's not that one is more important to fix. It's that one is a direct illustration of the expectations and assumptions placed on genders in society, which means that fixing the underlying motivations that govern that type would fix everything else. Men can be and are sometimes *****, yes. But, culturally speaking, men are not expected to plan for it. Women are. They are told to dress conservatively when they go out, to never walk home alone, to carry some for of self defense on their person, etc. It effects women as a gender, even women who themselves are never actually *****. It is such a prevalent thing that all (read: ALL) women must think about it and plan for it. As such, this is where the heart of the whole problem lies—in the expectations of the differences in men and women. In how we view them differently. If masculinity and dominance were not so directly tied to being male (and therefore "better"), then people would be less inclined to seek such dire ways of expressing it. Making a show of power like that would not be considered desirable. The potential rapist (man or woman, gay or straight, and everything in-between), would not be trying to assert superiority in that way, because it would not be seen as the show of status that it currently is seen to be (to adum's point about male **** victim's not coming forward because for them the embarrassment of the incident is felt as being even greater, purely because, as a man, the victim expects himself, and is expected by society, to not allow that to happen).
Click to expand...
It's not THAT much less prevalent for men, it's just supposed to be unfathomable that a man would turn down sex and even if they did, "you really couldn't fight off a girl?" (or less commonly a gay guy). At the same time you're correct in that guys don't universally fear being ***** like women do.
 
giraffelasergun

giraffelasergun

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
1,173
I've been watching a lot of grumps/steam train/steam roll recently and I've decided that Ross and Barry are very interesting to listen to. Danny and Egoraptor tend to talk about things I don't enjoy listening to. Also, none of them know how to play mario party and that frustrates me.
 
#HBC | ѕoup

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
hohohoh oh boy gorf being offensive again please man circus is gonna break his keyboard with how much he is going to type up
 
#HBC | ѕoup

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
how did this even start i ctrl+F the word '****' and my computer screen lights up with the highlighted mentions of it just on the previous page

ps ashemu is my true waifu not ashemu herself but the girl in her picture who i envision as ashemu
 
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#HBC | Joker

#HBC | Joker

Space Marine
Joined
Feb 2, 2012
Messages
3,864
Location
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
NNID
HBCJoker
3DS FC
1864-9780-3232
Circus said:
It's not that one is more important to fix. It's that one is a direct illustration of the expectations and assumptions placed on genders in society, which means that fixing the underlying motivations that govern that type would fix everything else. Men can be and are sometimes *****, yes. But, culturally speaking, men are not expected to plan for it. Women are. They are told to dress conservatively when they go out, to never walk home alone, to carry some for of self defense on their person, etc. It effects women as a gender, even women who themselves are never actually *****. It is such a prevalent thing that all (read: ALL) women must think about it and plan for it. As such, this is where the heart of the whole problem lies—in the expectations of the differences in men and women. In how we view them differently. If masculinity and dominance were not so directly tied to being male (and therefore "better"), then people would be less inclined to seek such dire ways of expressing it. Making a show of power like that would not be considered desirable. The potential rapist (man or woman, gay or straight, and everything in-between), would not be trying to assert superiority in that way, because it would not be seen as the show of status that it currently is seen to be (to adum's point about male **** victim's not coming forward because for them the embarrassment of the incident is felt as being even greater, purely because, as a man, the victim expects himself, and is expected by society, to not allow that to happen).
Click to expand...
This is a lot of horse****. I mean really, you can't honestly believe this to be true. You think the reason men **** women is because of gender stereotypes? That the only reason **** happens is because men are conditioned by society to be hunters, and to take sex wherever they can get it, and therefore women are the targets? That's all bull****. **** isn't even about sex, it's about control. The reason women are targeted is because they are physically weaker, they are easier targets. They are easier to overpower. The people who commit these crimes are not concerned with how they look, or what body parts they have. They merely want to take a person, and exert their own will upon them.

Take catholic priests, for example. They are people placed in positions of authority, and some of them have abused their power to violate little boys. You see stupid jokes about it on south park and the like, where they give the little boys presents, and wine, and put on soft music, because they aren't allowed to have sex. But that's bull****, that's not what it's about, they aren't even gay. They are sick minds, who are very smart. They've chosen targets who are weak, easy to overpower, and too ashamed to report it. They are people who will do whatever it takes to feel powerful.

THAT'S the crime we are talking about. Gender roles have absolutely nothing to do with it, and that you seem to think the problem would be solved by society not conditioning males to feel that they need to be powerful, is naive. There will ALWAYS be hierarchy's of power constructed by society that have absolutely nothing to do with gender.
 
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BSL

BSL

B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
6,453
Location
Baton Rouge
NNID
bsl883
3DS FC
3308-4560-2744
Yeah adumb I was being serious. I mean I'm alright, so it's fine.
 
#HBC | ѕoup

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
gorf im wondering why you didnt go with the new age retro hippie i mean you would totally rock it perfectly man
 
Unassuming Local Guys

Unassuming Local Guys

Fandangox|Gorf
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
40
i was considering either that or abstract art but i feel like unassuming local guy is exactly the type of niche earthbound reference i was going for when fandango mentioned it
 
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Protean-

Protean-

Gorf|Washed Laundry
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
228
Location
pokeball
adumbrodeus said:
That's fair, I just thing it's important to separate them because if you treat them as the same issue, people tend to act like it's just ****ty human nature rather then recognizing the gendered issues behind both.
Click to expand...
i mean go ahead and make the difference just make sure both sides know that their issues are equally important. no need to marginalize people's feelings when they've experienced the same problem.

:186:
 
adumbrodeus

adumbrodeus

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
11,321
Location
Tri-state area
#HBC | Joker said:
This is a lot of horse****. I mean really, you can't honestly believe this to be true. You think the reason men **** women is because of gender stereotypes? That the only reason **** happens is because men are conditioned by society to be hunters, and to take sex wherever they can get it, and therefore women are the targets? That's all bull****. **** isn't even about sex, it's about control. The reason women are targeted is because they are physically weaker, they are easier targets. They are easier to overpower. The people who commit these crimes are not concerned with how they look, or what body parts they have. They merely want to take a person, and exert their own will upon them.

Take catholic priests, for example. They are people placed in positions of authority, and some of them have abused their power to violate little boys. You see stupid jokes about it on south park and the like, where they give the little boys presents, and wine, and put on soft music, because they aren't allowed to have sex. But that's bull****, that's not what it's about, they aren't even gay. They are sick minds, who are very smart. They've chosen targets who are weak, easy to overpower, and too ashamed to report it.

THAT'S the crime we are talking about. Gender roles have absolutely nothing to do with it, and that you seem to think the problem would be solved by society not conditioning males to feel that they need to be powerful, is naive. There will ALWAYS be hierarchy's of power constructed by society that have absolutely nothing to do with gender.
Click to expand...

Pedophilia in the catholic priesthood was actually occurring at a substantially lower rate then comparable organizations, the issue was systematic hiding.

Which brings me to my point, social structures and roles do have an effect on how sexual desires manifest and women have just as much capacity to be sexually aggressive as men do. The actual difference is primarily conditioning, men are CONDITIONED to be hunters.

The idea that gender has nothing to do with it is silly, even if we were to accept your gender essentialism it would still be a gendered issue.
 
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