DGames Archive (Updated: SEP 19th 2014)

[Handorin]

I support this movement. Scrap MVP and give dice based on completed games or membership if that's easier to implement.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Getting rid of MVPs isn't going to stop those kids at school teasing one another, that's the thing.

I think it's tragic that the only trophy we can have is one that completely defeats the point of a trophy; you get it just for signing up.

RIP MVPs

 

[Gova]

Don't you know Kary, when you sign up for Fun Fair Positive Mafia (TM symbol that I don't know how to use), everyone gets a trophy at the end of the season and the Mod says something good about your play. Then we all have pizza and see each other again next season where we might be on different teams and you kind of don't want to play against your friends but you kind of do, but that doesn't matter. You were still forced to play anyways because your Mom decided you needed the (mental) exercise.

My point is that MVP does nothing but destroy friendships.

 

[Raziek]

I'm down for scrapping it as well.

I support "number of completed games" as a criteria, but I think Gheb's numbers are too high. There are people who have been here for YEARS who haven't been in anywhere near 50 games. I don't think it needs to be quite that exclusive. I would include hydras in a player's personal game total.

I would personally choose 5, 15, and 30, if we're doing 3 levels.

.....

Make 50 Gova's face.

 

[Gova]

Man, if my face became a post bit, I would have to start playing again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Getting rid of MVPs isn't going to stop those kids at school teasing one another, that's the thing.

Yea it is. Nobody actually hates each other over here (at least I don't, I always see who you are in game =/= who you are out game), but MVP gives us incentive to be "that guy that got MVP" when we play whether we think it does or not just because it exists. Most people who have something to say about play will say it even if there's no MVP running at the end of it. If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad. I'm sure you yourself know how well you may have done, and there's no need for something tangible to prove it with something like this. If you're looking to become a professional mafia player than sure maybe. But this game is, in the end, a game.

 

[BSL]

Totally agree with pretty much all the comments so far. Ditch the MVP system in it's official capacity, and maybe give the dice to the Dgames regular members. We ALL know when someone does really well in a game, we don't need a postbit to remind us.

In fact, having more of us out there flashing our dice around might attract more attention to Dgames.

literally the reason i joined DGames was because tom told me to play a game and also i wanted gold dice at some point. never got them and i don't enjoy MAFIA enough to work at getting them, but i've been around enough and i enjoy other games. having a postbit is nice

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Put this out as a proposal in its own right, and remove the MVP system as a result. Let's set out to do a cool thing, rather than focusing on removing a bad thing.

There you go.

Nothing was inherently bad about the previous MVP system outside of people (the majority of which already had them) complaining about the exclusivity of them. I've never seen someone intentionally play for the purpose of gaining an MVP. I believe most of the hate the system got was because some people like to argue and found a subject they could start **** over. I don't particularly care. The only thing I really care about with MVP at this point is getting this hydra a Town MVP because it has the other two.

~Ryker

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I don't care one way or another but from what I remember a lot of the MVP hatred never really felt justified. Saying it destroys friendships sounds like an exaggeration because I've never seen it really cause fights save for breeding bad blood in games where someone plays well enough to feel it's justified but don't earn it for some reason or another. Such examples include Gigabots, where I couldn't give Jupiter's Muscles the award because they avoided a lynch due to two players cheating, or a lot of other games where someone arbitrarily feels like no single player didn't play well enough to deserve the MVP despite arguments from the rest of the group. It's never been much of a problem and it's nice to have an achievement for playing exceptionally well. I can't think of a player who plays specifically to get MVP, however, though it has been awhile since Chibo's played.

There's no real reason for keeping it since it seems the postbits are now gone and it's always felt a bit arbitrary in its distribution based on each mod's differing criteria of an MVP performance, but I don't think there's any real reason to remove it either. Whatever you guys will do is fine by me.

-Laundry

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm down for scrapping it as well.

I support "number of completed games" as a criteria, but I think Gheb's numbers are too high. There are people who have been here for YEARS who haven't been in anywhere near 50 games. I don't think it needs to be quite that exclusive. I would include hydras in a player's personal game total.

I would personally choose 5, 15, and 30, if we're doing 3 levels.

.....

Make 50 Gova's face.

5 > 15 > 25 makes my non-existent OCD happier


I suggest "Played in a newbie" also being a small milestone to encourage new players

This is pretty much all moot if postbits don't exist anymore though lool, can anyone even confirm they can choose to display them?

(secret Gova unlock at 500)

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Are you telling me that we're too autistic to get along with each other because of a ****ing post-bit. This is certainly news to me.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Are you telling me that we're too autistic to get along with each other because of a ****ing post-bit. This is certainly news to me.

That basically.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Whether or not there is an MVP system, if I still think you made a ******** play or played like a ****** or was played by ******* then that does not change the notion that I will feel extremely volatile and point it out. I carry salt because I put time into the game. If I get a whiff of apathy and bad choices out of other slots not putting in the groundwork, but pretending they are putting groundwork into the game or putting absolutely no mental groundwork into the game and are simply on auto-pilot then I will still be incensed.

There is a difference between those playing mafia and playing mafia. And a converging idea to get all types of approach to mafia to head towards the same level is to involve concepts like an MVP system. So whereas an MVP system is arbitrary, it sets a tone for how the game should be played. Not to make friends or to play exclusive circle and lynch non-friends, but to play the game for the sake of winning it. Yes, friendship be damned, I like winning and I like winners. And I'd like my friends to accept that we can still be friends and I can still think they made a horrible mistake in a game and vice versa.

There are factors which haven't been established: 1. the current community has issues 2. the issues are caused by the MVP system or can be resolved by abolishing the MVP system 3. the MVP system is a bad concept when balancing the pros and cons 4. what type of community do people want with the end of an MVP system. From my standpoint it appears that people are trying to address an issue that's not really an issue or appears to be an issue to a few individuals who have issue with it. Everyone has a stake in this, but it is telling that their two cents involves surprise that they don't believe there is rotten meat here.

I believe most of the hate the system got was because some people like to argue and found a subject they could start **** over.

Spot on.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

The majority of the people who are posting in this thread have been saying "I don't care one way or another."

Personally, I intend to continue handing out MVPs at the end of games I host because recognition is nice. Because someone donated a kidney, we know he's a good guy, but that doesn't mean sending him a letter thanking him as the recipient is pointless.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I plan to do the same. Even if it means nothing ultimately it's still a nice sentiment to say "Yeah, you did really well this game, good job!"

 

[Orboknown]

We can still award it without giving a postbit for it right? Just have mods award it and don't set a postbit for it

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

And while we're at it, let's just abolish the Purple Heart and tell them "good job" instead.

That's a more extreme comparison. It's not a big deal to change simply because it's not a big deal to anyone. I just wish people wouldn't act as if it were a plague.

 

[BSL]

Well, the Purple Heart is recognition for someone risking their life. The dice are recognition for being better than others at mafia.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I'm pretty sure I pointed out that the hyperbole was extreme.

And while we're at it, let's just abolish the Purple Heart and tell them "good job" instead.

That's a more extreme comparison. It's not a big deal to change simply because it's not a big deal to anyone. I just wish people wouldn't act as if it were a plague.

Look! I did!

 

[Dabuz]

FoS: BSL

 

[BSL]

Not only was it extreme, but it was inappropriate. The Purple Heart isn't the same kind of award, so making that comparison doesn't prove any point.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Are two of my favorite posters really fighting over an analogy.

 

[Gova]

This is what MVP does to us.

 

[Dabuz]

This is what wanting to argue for the sake of arguing does to us.

Fixed.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Not only was it extreme, but it was inappropriate. The Purple Heart isn't the same kind of award, so making that comparison doesn't prove any point.

I disagree. It is an award given for something done. The point of an award, any award in part at least, is to recognize others. The impact is lessened without some sort of official recognition. That is what makes it an award as opposed to a pat on the back.

 

[Overswarm]

Replace dice with achievement system

"Played an OS game"
"Won 3 games as town"
"Was on a correct lynch in lylo"
"hosted two games"

and make nabe keep track of it all

 

[Dabuz]

Only if there's an achievement for claiming Day Cop in Lylo as scum and living.

 

[Orboknown]

"Counterclaim Dayvig"

 

[Xivii]

The problem with the mvp system has nothing to do with anything outside of the game (teasing/ruining friendships. That stuff doesn't really happen). @acro @kary

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

The problem with the mvp system has nothing to do with anything outside of the game (teasing/ruining friendships. That stuff doesn't really happen). @acro @kary

Insinuating it's an in-game issue?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well, it is.

 

[Gova]

It's not though, it's an after game issue. :obv:

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

If anything, it's an after game issue.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

In game and post game it's annoying.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

When is it ever a problem in game?

 

[Kantrip]

When is it ever a problem?

 

[Gova]

All the time. The salt is real.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Don't listen to him. The cake is a lie.

 

[Circus]

Potential for people to play as an island rather than as a team in order to get dat glory at the end. I don't think most people really play in a way so MVP-centric, but if the current system does anything, it provides incentive to play that way. One of the reasons the current system doesn't work is that only individually impressive performances get recognized, which is insane since mafia is a game that relies on cooperation no matter which side you're on (unless you're indie, but if you're indie, you should just replace out of that game). Sometimes there are players that are clearly "most valuable," but those players still only accomplish anything with the help of a good team.

If we are keeping anything close to this system in place, I support a "number of games played" or "number of games won (be apart of the winning faction)" alteration. That's a good idea. Otherwise, abolish it entirely.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Once more: there isn't significant damage being done and there is benefit from the institution of MVPs because people enjoy recognition. If it's not broke, don't fix it.