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Deven3000's Official Manhattan Smashfest Thread **Postponed**
- Thread starter Deven3000
- Start date
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
come up with an excuse to come here, i'll house you and chumiss nyc so much
Yeah ill try and figure something out. If you can in the fall if there is a big tournament like ktar or something please PM me, ill try my best to get plane tickets.
I'm not really sure if I could bring chu just because we don't live near each other, although I could give him a call and maybe he could take a bus or something if hes not too busy with school.
More realistically though, I could prolly bring ryo along....... maybe hbox if its melee as well. I'll need to look over my school schedule in the fall and see the tourny dates so they dont conflict with exams, so no promises, but if something works ill let ya know for sure.
hmm roundtrip is 200$, gonna need to save some money
I'm not really sure if I could bring chu just because we don't live near each other, although I could give him a call and maybe he could take a bus or something if hes not too busy with school.
More realistically though, I could prolly bring ryo along....... maybe hbox if its melee as well.
I'll need to look over my school schedule in the fall and see the tourny dates so they dont conflict with exams, so no promises, but if something works ill let ya know for sure.hmm roundtrip is 200$, gonna need to save some money
Tony T
Smash Ace
Well I can't come on the 13th and you know why already.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Ryo the ike main? Yo bring himmmmm!!! v-v
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
DDD, that sounds pretty pricey. And NYC misses you too! Anyway, if you were to save money for an event near NY. I'd say to save up for Apex.
Edit: Deven, it's Muñoz! Muñoz! MuÑ--Dammit Alt+164!
And NYC misses you too! Anyway, if you were to save money for an event near NY. I'd say to save up for Apex.Edit: Deven, it's Muñoz! Muñoz! MuÑ--Dammit Alt+164!
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
well i AM hosting a tournament in manhattan aug 4th XD
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
mk bannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
i already explained that I do not believe in that ban. I know you think its "needed" but I really don't.
I won't change it on the simple premise of competition in my mind is about who is the best not who is the best under specific conditions. Plus I think my ruleset is the most fair for the world to play not just a specific region.
It is sad for me to see that I am doing an event for really cheap for a good amount to enter and people that live close by would rather stay home
I won't change it on the simple premise of competition in my mind is about who is the best not who is the best under specific conditions. Plus I think my ruleset is the most fair for the world to play not just a specific region.
It is sad for me to see that I am doing an event for really cheap for a good amount to enter and people that live close by would rather stay home
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
i would LOVE to attend, it's just that since it's MK legal, it makes me conflicted cause i don't want to support MK legal
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I understand its fine.
Just remember this.
Apex will always have mk legal...that is because the world wants it that way. Not only that but they want to know who the best is. Tournaments are about improving and always striving for 1st...not 2nd but 1st. You cannot be better if you do not play the rules everyone else plays.
I play Gnw/Marth/Snake/Falco I should ban mk/icz/oli and every character that beats those cause it will be more "fun" for me...but its not cause it cheapens all the work you do.
This event in manhattan is to help build nyc scene up. Like polybrawl this is a decent sized venue for nyc. You can stay home or go. I want you to go cause in the end you will have fun regardless of rules.
Fighting games are rough for newcomers or some people. It really is. You want to stay with your character but when you get hard countered you think the game is "cheap" or bad or whatever the case is. The fact that you host sessions shows that you care about the game.
Whats gonna happen when , if not already , all big events do mk legal. Are you going to sit there at home watching streams and ending up a person who complains and says this or that person isnt good without mk? Even with bans people place well. It is a matter of sheer WILL.
Sorry I just wanted to say that. I respect your choices regardless but you have to understand the point I am doing these locals for are for ppl who cannot get out to NJ every week to get some games in with good players. I will be making sure some come to these events.
Just remember this.
Apex will always have mk legal...that is because the world wants it that way. Not only that but they want to know who the best is. Tournaments are about improving and always striving for 1st...not 2nd but 1st. You cannot be better if you do not play the rules everyone else plays.
I play Gnw/Marth/Snake/Falco I should ban mk/icz/oli and every character that beats those cause it will be more "fun" for me...but its not cause it cheapens all the work you do.
This event in manhattan is to help build nyc scene up. Like polybrawl this is a decent sized venue for nyc. You can stay home or go. I want you to go cause in the end you will have fun regardless of rules.
Fighting games are rough for newcomers or some people. It really is. You want to stay with your character but when you get hard countered you think the game is "cheap" or bad or whatever the case is. The fact that you host sessions shows that you care about the game.
Whats gonna happen when , if not already , all big events do mk legal. Are you going to sit there at home watching streams and ending up a person who complains and says this or that person isnt good without mk? Even with bans people place well. It is a matter of sheer WILL.
Sorry I just wanted to say that. I respect your choices regardless but you have to understand the point I am doing these locals for are for ppl who cannot get out to NJ every week to get some games in with good players. I will be making sure some come to these events.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
"I play Gnw/Marth/Snake/Falco I should ban mk/icz/oli and every character that beats those cause it will be more "fun" for me...but its not cause it cheapens all the work you do."
i do not want MK banned cause i think it will give me an easier time... >_>
i'm not trying to be selfish... i genuinely think MK is OP
"This event in manhattan is to help build nyc scene up. Like polybrawl this is a decent sized venue for nyc. You can stay home or go. I want you to go cause in the end you will have fun regardless of rules."
the last poly was MK legal after the "ban" happened and was terrible attendance because more people were more comfortable with the ban and would prefer it that way...
Also, it's not like i'd be super happy not going because I don't support the rules, but there isn't much else i can do in that position. I am looking for a place to start hosting myself, perhaps you can help me with that?
"Fighting games are rough for newcomers or some people. It really is. You want to stay with your character but when you get hard countered you think the game is "cheap" or bad or whatever the case is. The fact that you host sessions shows that you care about the game. "
I'm not new.... none of us are... we attend things.... and lol dude you know us!! D:
I host smashfests because i think this game is amazing and i try my best to keep the nyc scene alive. i do not nor have i ever lost a match thinking the game is cheap or unfair.
"Whats gonna happen when , if not already , all big events do mk legal. Are you going to sit there at home watching streams and ending up a person who complains and says this or that person isnt good without mk? Even with bans people place well. It is a matter of sheer WILL. "
Impulse is a qualifier for Apex and it was MK banned and there were some truely great players
WHobo is MK banned and it's gunna be huge... (i'd like to try to find a way to get there myself)
Not to mention the Impact tournies have been amazing and they're MK ban (decided by vote by the attendees)
and each Impact gets increasing attendance each time!
i am trying within my power to start hosting tournies along side my smashfest. i may not be able to host this summer, but i'm pretty sure i have a place for the fall.
also, if it isn't too much trouble, would you mind letting me know the information on the aug 4 venue? who says we both can't host?
i do not want MK banned cause i think it will give me an easier time... >_>
i'm not trying to be selfish... i genuinely think MK is OP
"This event in manhattan is to help build nyc scene up. Like polybrawl this is a decent sized venue for nyc. You can stay home or go. I want you to go cause in the end you will have fun regardless of rules."
the last poly was MK legal after the "ban" happened and was terrible attendance because more people were more comfortable with the ban and would prefer it that way...
Also, it's not like i'd be super happy not going because I don't support the rules, but there isn't much else i can do in that position. I am looking for a place to start hosting myself, perhaps you can help me with that?
"Fighting games are rough for newcomers or some people. It really is. You want to stay with your character but when you get hard countered you think the game is "cheap" or bad or whatever the case is. The fact that you host sessions shows that you care about the game. "
I'm not new.... none of us are... we attend things.... and lol dude you know us!! D:
I host smashfests because i think this game is amazing and i try my best to keep the nyc scene alive. i do not nor have i ever lost a match thinking the game is cheap or unfair.
"Whats gonna happen when , if not already , all big events do mk legal. Are you going to sit there at home watching streams and ending up a person who complains and says this or that person isnt good without mk? Even with bans people place well. It is a matter of sheer WILL. "
Impulse is a qualifier for Apex and it was MK banned and there were some truely great players
WHobo is MK banned and it's gunna be huge... (i'd like to try to find a way to get there myself)
Not to mention the Impact tournies have been amazing and they're MK ban (decided by vote by the attendees)
and each Impact gets increasing attendance each time!
i am trying within my power to start hosting tournies along side my smashfest. i may not be able to host this summer, but i'm pretty sure i have a place for the fall.
also, if it isn't too much trouble, would you mind letting me know the information on the aug 4 venue? who says we both can't host?
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
Impulse was for Melee only.
all qualifiers for apex are mk legal
The way I want it is...if I do stuff at the aug 4th venue I have a specific thing I want to do there. If you want you can run it and do what you want honestly.
I want to make something comparable to wensday night fights with interviews and the like.
all qualifiers for apex are mk legal
The way I want it is...if I do stuff at the aug 4th venue I have a specific thing I want to do there. If you want you can run it and do what you want honestly.
I want to make something comparable to wensday night fights with interviews and the like.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
oh so just the melee part of Impulse is a qualifier for you.
ok, my bad on that one
ok, my bad on that one
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I cannot argue with you on the attendance but sktar is a huge event in summer and is mk legal. Then you have LiRR which is mk legal , COT6 was mk legal, collision is mk legal.
I mean just because one or 2 places do it does not mean its the norm.
Now I am NOT saying you shouldnt do it. I am saying that I have a cheap venue that only will work with me for $5 venue fee ( none of which I get and I pay ppl out of pocket for stuff) not to mention I offer discounts you only see in WC.
I mean just because one or 2 places do it does not mean its the norm.
Now I am NOT saying you shouldnt do it. I am saying that I have a cheap venue that only will work with me for $5 venue fee ( none of which I get and I pay ppl out of pocket for stuff) not to mention I offer discounts you only see in WC.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
"I mean just because one or 2 places do it does not mean its the norm."
i know it's not the norm lol
i'd like to see them pop up more.
i know it's not the norm lol
i'd like to see them pop up more.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I understand just hit me up and i'll get u the venue.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
Awesome, thanks!
and btw, i hope this doesn't start any sort of bad blood or anything. i only started arguing again cause you posted in my thread lol :s
and btw, i hope this doesn't start any sort of bad blood or anything. i only started arguing again cause you posted in my thread lol :s
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Yo e-sports
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
deven i dont care lol its just a ruleset. I rather you go to both since its so cheap...that way u get something and so do i.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
well my thing is bi-weekly so no worries.
John12346
Smash Master
Well, I may as well throw my hat into the ring too. I really, REALLY don't want to sound harsh, but I'm not going to be attending this either, as I don't really want to support MK legal tournaments either. And before you ask, no, it's not because I want to make my tournament experience easier, not because I want to eliminate a troublesome matchup, and not because I think it'll be easier to win money in that regard. I have clocked way too many hours, more than I would like to admit working on this silly topic, and I know for a fact that there's more to this debate than everyone thinks.
Anyway, you say that other regions are using a MK legal format, so why shouldn't you, right? This is a poor sense of reasoning, because I'm willing to bet that a lot of TOs hosting MK legal tournaments are following this logic too and simply caving into what appears to be the norm(Chibo, I'm calling you out >__>), causing more and more tournaments to shift to that ruleset, instead of following their own beliefs. This is known as a positive feedback loop, which is basically the notion of an action being able to cause even more of that action to occur sporadically. It's fine if a TO is doing what they believe is competitively sound for the game, or are ceding to the wishes of their own region, but no TO should be doing what all other TOs are doing if it's simply due to basic peer pressure.
A big problem with the way things are being run right now is that people seem to be under the impression that MK legal players comprise a very dominant majority over the course of all regions. This is, at least in the case of NYC, not even close to true. I know for a fact that there are a huge amount of players who would rather see MK not legal in tournaments. It may be for selfish reasons like money, it may be for simply wanting to help the game where possible, or it may just be to increase the fun factor of the game. Idk, I can't say for sure in that regard, but this point definitely needs to be rechecked, because I'm more than willing to bet that those in NYC who want to see MK legal comprise a very vocal minority that only seems like a majority. People have a huge tendency to speak up against changes like this, and in regard to the opposition, those on the MK banned side feel the need not to say anything about it, most likely because they are afraid of what seems to be an overbearing majority(To be honest, even I felt uneasy at a time about publicly saying MK needs the boot...).
I feel that this should apply to every region, but in the case of NYC, TOs need to take a full poll on its region's members on what kinds of ruleset changes should be put into effect. None of this "I'm pretty sure this is what everyone wants," because I'm going to tell you right now that this "everyone" you speak of is probably a vocal minority. Take a legit, balls to the walls, member by member poll on what they think a certain rule's configuration should look like. In this case, it's MK's legality. This post may be directed mainly at you Alex, but I do urge all TOs to take this approach when it comes to any controversial rule whenever possible. Doing so alleviates most problems with putting a rule into effect, even if it's not the one you agree with.
Now, with that in mind, a rule change still shouldn't be put into effect by poll alone unless the change itself is justified, so-
This is a character that takes somewhere around 40%-50% of all tournament money, a figure that no other character comes even close to contesting. He completely destroys the counterpick system with his lack of bad matchups and absolute **** on counterpick stages(Delfino, Halberd, Frigate, Brinstar, RC). Rulesets have to be modeled around his very existence, with an arbitrary ledge grab limit and the removal of practically half the stagelist. Do you know how many anti-bans argue that MK doesn't need to be banned, but rather all sorts of rules need to be shifted around and then he's suddenly fine for competitive play(and even then, he still isn't)? This is practically a testament to MK being a banworthy force in the tournament scene, because these people are practically saying, "MK's broken, okay, but change these rules and he's not anymore!" We shouldn't be writing an entire rulebook to keep one character in line. No character gets this much attention, and it technically is causing the game to be played under a huge multitude of arbitrary, specific conditions, even moreso than if MK was just flat-out banned!
(If you want to argue this point at all, please respond to the below statement, because that's the point I'm trying to make.)
If you still think MK isn't a banworthy force in the scene, that's fine... but there's no way you can deny the precedent behind banning him exists.
I'm gonna drop some information on you regarding MK's monetary successes from 2011. I haven't really kept this kind of detailed data for MK Legal tournaments in 2012, but I can assure you that the data in 2012 would look very similar, as I've been keeping tabs on those tournaments regardless.
[collapse=Comparison Chart for Character Monetary Success in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
[/collapse][/collapse]
[collapse=Month by Month Success Rates in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
[/collapse][/collapse]
[collapse=Successful Player Count by Character in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
[/collapse][/collapse]
You're welcome to view even more information on the subject here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11959822&postcount=2
But I do believe I have shown some precedent as to why the MK ban is justified. It's entirely plausible that MK use in tournaments does not truly help us determine the true skill level of players, nor of the identity of the most skilled players, as it's very likely that use of MK can overinflate one's winnings or potential to win, since that seems to be what you're so concerned about...
I'm not telling you to ban MK. But please bear in mind that you are dealing with an extremely vocal minority which tipped a lot of TOs in this way to begin with, and a positive feedback loop, which will ultimately cause more and more TOs to host MK legal tournaments, even if that's not how they feel things should be run but are simply operating under pressure. And... most importantly, we actually have reasonable cause for the ban to actually be justified, so...
Please, if you're not going to ban MK, at least poll your region over the matter.
Anyway, you say that other regions are using a MK legal format, so why shouldn't you, right? This is a poor sense of reasoning, because I'm willing to bet that a lot of TOs hosting MK legal tournaments are following this logic too and simply caving into what appears to be the norm(Chibo, I'm calling you out >__>), causing more and more tournaments to shift to that ruleset, instead of following their own beliefs. This is known as a positive feedback loop, which is basically the notion of an action being able to cause even more of that action to occur sporadically. It's fine if a TO is doing what they believe is competitively sound for the game, or are ceding to the wishes of their own region, but no TO should be doing what all other TOs are doing if it's simply due to basic peer pressure.
A big problem with the way things are being run right now is that people seem to be under the impression that MK legal players comprise a very dominant majority over the course of all regions. This is, at least in the case of NYC, not even close to true. I know for a fact that there are a huge amount of players who would rather see MK not legal in tournaments. It may be for selfish reasons like money, it may be for simply wanting to help the game where possible, or it may just be to increase the fun factor of the game. Idk, I can't say for sure in that regard, but this point definitely needs to be rechecked, because I'm more than willing to bet that those in NYC who want to see MK legal comprise a very vocal minority that only seems like a majority. People have a huge tendency to speak up against changes like this, and in regard to the opposition, those on the MK banned side feel the need not to say anything about it, most likely because they are afraid of what seems to be an overbearing majority(To be honest, even I felt uneasy at a time about publicly saying MK needs the boot...).
I feel that this should apply to every region, but in the case of NYC, TOs need to take a full poll on its region's members on what kinds of ruleset changes should be put into effect. None of this "I'm pretty sure this is what everyone wants," because I'm going to tell you right now that this "everyone" you speak of is probably a vocal minority. Take a legit, balls to the walls, member by member poll on what they think a certain rule's configuration should look like. In this case, it's MK's legality. This post may be directed mainly at you Alex, but I do urge all TOs to take this approach when it comes to any controversial rule whenever possible. Doing so alleviates most problems with putting a rule into effect, even if it's not the one you agree with.
Now, with that in mind, a rule change still shouldn't be put into effect by poll alone unless the change itself is justified, so-
Alex, it should be apparent by now, through all of the arguing and debating that's been going on for the past few years, that it's completely arguable that Meta Knight may not be one of the skill testing characters you or most other anti-ban arguers think he is.
This is a character that takes somewhere around 40%-50% of all tournament money, a figure that no other character comes even close to contesting. He completely destroys the counterpick system with his lack of bad matchups and absolute **** on counterpick stages(Delfino, Halberd, Frigate, Brinstar, RC). Rulesets have to be modeled around his very existence, with an arbitrary ledge grab limit and the removal of practically half the stagelist. Do you know how many anti-bans argue that MK doesn't need to be banned, but rather all sorts of rules need to be shifted around and then he's suddenly fine for competitive play(and even then, he still isn't)? This is practically a testament to MK being a banworthy force in the tournament scene, because these people are practically saying, "MK's broken, okay, but change these rules and he's not anymore!" We shouldn't be writing an entire rulebook to keep one character in line. No character gets this much attention, and it technically is causing the game to be played under a huge multitude of arbitrary, specific conditions, even moreso than if MK was just flat-out banned!
(If you want to argue this point at all, please respond to the below statement, because that's the point I'm trying to make.)
If you still think MK isn't a banworthy force in the scene, that's fine... but there's no way you can deny the precedent behind banning him exists.
I'm gonna drop some information on you regarding MK's monetary successes from 2011. I haven't really kept this kind of detailed data for MK Legal tournaments in 2012, but I can assure you that the data in 2012 would look very similar, as I've been keeping tabs on those tournaments regardless.
[collapse=Comparison Chart for Character Monetary Success in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
[collapse=Month by Month Success Rates in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
[collapse=Successful Player Count by Character in 2011 MK Legal Tournaments]
[collapse=Breakdown]
You're welcome to view even more information on the subject here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11959822&postcount=2
But I do believe I have shown some precedent as to why the MK ban is justified. It's entirely plausible that MK use in tournaments does not truly help us determine the true skill level of players, nor of the identity of the most skilled players, as it's very likely that use of MK can overinflate one's winnings or potential to win, since that seems to be what you're so concerned about...
I'm not telling you to ban MK. But please bear in mind that you are dealing with an extremely vocal minority which tipped a lot of TOs in this way to begin with, and a positive feedback loop, which will ultimately cause more and more TOs to host MK legal tournaments, even if that's not how they feel things should be run but are simply operating under pressure. And... most importantly, we actually have reasonable cause for the ban to actually be justified, so...
Please, if you're not going to ban MK, at least poll your region over the matter.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
ok, umm...
i don't want my thread to stay off the topic of my smashfests... soooo if this starts a debate or w.e, lets move it else where.... please
i don't want my thread to stay off the topic of my smashfests... soooo if this starts a debate or w.e, lets move it else where.... please
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
ya i just dont respond cause its just too much data for something i already know lol
John12346
Smash Master
Well, I more or less got the response I was expecting in the other thread, so let's just wrap things up there.
No need to beat a dead horse if we already know what's up, right?
No need to beat a dead horse if we already know what's up, right?
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
yea sad you wont be going to any big tournaments anymore
John12346
Smash Master
Don't be so sure about that just yet. I think the community may just need a nudge in the right direction.
We can't predict the outcome of this mess so hastily.
We can't predict the outcome of this mess so hastily.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
-sigh- im looking beyond the USA im looking towards a global event and how to get people prepared.
you can sit here and tell me this character wins this or is good or w/e but if the world won't come to a mk banned event then how can we, as a community, increase our event hype ?
Having a world-wide event is what we need and to do that we need people from japan and other countries.
you can sit here and tell me this character wins this or is good or w/e but if the world won't come to a mk banned event then how can we, as a community, increase our event hype ?
Having a world-wide event is what we need and to do that we need people from japan and other countries.
John12346
Smash Master
Well, it's for one tournament. I know it's the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT EVER IN THE UNIVERSE OMGHYPE, but it IS one tournament.
There are those who would agree with you on banning based on international relations and those who wouldn't since it is one tournament. Completely subjective, but both sides of the argument are completely justified, so just roll with what you want to roll with, simple enough.
But I'm just saying, with the right push, it's possible to cause a local/regional/national change, it just depends on the tools you have...
There are those who would agree with you on banning based on international relations and those who wouldn't since it is one tournament. Completely subjective, but both sides of the argument are completely justified, so just roll with what you want to roll with, simple enough.
But I'm just saying, with the right push, it's possible to cause a local/regional/national change, it just depends on the tools you have...
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
well for me I do not see that happening so yuppers.
MikeKirby
OTL Winrar
Just when I was getting better and better! I take my hiatus.
I hope when I come back I can go higher than I ever have!
Have a happy summer all!!
I hope when I come back I can go higher than I ever have!
Have a happy summer all!!
Grimmz
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2011
- Messages
- 462
Same dude.
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Not all big tourneys are MK legal :o lolyea sad you wont be going to any big tournaments anymore
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
other than whobo thats in texas i dont see many tournaments worth going to raptor thats mk banned.
also all the big events i am involved with are mk legal
also all the big events i am involved with are mk legal
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
You said that as if there was no possibility of other big tourneys being MK banned in the future though. That's inaccurate.
Alex Strife
Smash Hero
I never said the future I am saying right now.
Stop trying to start a fight over nothing. Sorry I responded.
Stop trying to start a fight over nothing. Sorry I responded.
Deven3000
MikeKirby Sucks
guys guys
lets get along D:
and talk about my fest :D
In happier news I've done a few things that I think will help the overall quality of the stream! gunna put it to the test this friday! ;D
cya then!
lets get along D:
and talk about my fest :D
In happier news I've done a few things that I think will help the overall quality of the stream! gunna put it to the test this friday! ;D
cya then!
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Lol read what you wrote it implied in the future
And who's trying to fight? @_@ Im a Yoshi who comes in peace