Defense buffer

[forward]

In a situation where you know you will be punished, say after a dash attack, hit and hold L or R, and rotate the control stick really fast starting from down.

You give yourself about 4 options in defense. You start with your sheild, which quickly goes to a roll, dodge, or jump (which the opponent can't predict because u do it randomly). If you get grabbed you have already started escaping. If you DI correctly then you CC, and at high % or with fast fallers you get hit into a tech.

I hope everyone knows about this trick and does it at least semi consistantly.

 

[jmic]

This is freaking genius. Forward, you rule.

 

[Zone]

Or atleast semi-constantly, eat stinky old Kimchi next to your opponent and draw their attention away from the game. Little does he know you been smelling kimchi for a week straight so you don't even realize the smell is there.

Leaving him open for attack.

 

[MacD]

at first i was wondering how that worked becasue a dash attack puts them in mid air, then i relized i was thinking of peach's

but that makes since, as long as you are ready for whatever you do

 

[ChivalRuse]

Processing . . . processing . . .
I JUST missed my shinespike and I know I'm going to get punished. So I hold L or R and input a random direction.

God!!!! I just air dodged to my death!

Nothing's foolproof.

 

[Pye]

Processing . . . processing . . .
I JUST missed my shinespike and I know I'm going to get punished. So I hold L or R and input a random direction.

God!!!! I just air dodged to my death!

Nothing's foolproof.

If you aren't an idiot, it is pretty foolproof.

Listen to yourself. What you just said is like arguing that you should never ever run because if you do it into a brick wall, you'll break your nose. Obviously, there are situations in which pressing L/R is a bad idea, but it dosn't mean you try and shoot the idea down. That's called beeing closed minded.

Forward knows what he's talking about. This technique DOES work, if you've got the brain power to make sure you're on the stage when you do it.

Please, think before you post.

 

[Miharu]

Processing . . . processing . . .
I JUST missed my shinespike and I know I'm going to get punished. So I hold L or R and input a random direction.

God!!!! I just air dodged to my death!

Nothing's foolproof.

You would want to press L/R in the air with no chance of recovering...why?

Yes, what Pye said.

 

[Zone]

lol... It's not full proof, and I personally think it's a joke all together.

Why make yourself a random defense buffer?

If your low % go for a crouch cancel?
If you just been jabbed once or twice probably a good idea to expect a grab after your holding ur shield, and background dodge.

If you get grabbed and you're "Already randomly trying to escape" well if your higher dmg, spamming the wheel and buttons is gonna Screw up your DI, which you need more at that point. -.-;

 

[Puffinator]

yeah i have no idea what the first post said cause im an idiot but ill just trust forward..so yeah

 

[Taj278]

It works because the opponent isn't always going to punish correctly. If he mistimes his punish you automatically put up your shield and unpredictably roll away or sidestep. If he doesn't mistime anything, you're still in a position where you can crouch cancel. It's one fluid motion after you whiff a dash attack, you're just covering bases. It's not really spamming for random DI.

 

[Smo]

I think that Forward has it right, to be honest. If you have fast reactions, you should know when to stop making it "random" and start using your noggin. So if you use this technique and get grabbed - you should be able to quickly work out if you should escape or DI the throw. It's a good technique, if you use it wisely and not rely on "random defence".

It is a useful thing to know.

 

[Private Zulen]

Is DI just the direction you tilt your controller joypad to control which direction your character falls?

Also, is Crouch Canceling simply pressing down on the joypad so your character crouches, and doesn't get sent flying?

Those are the impressions I get from those two terms, yet it makes no sense to me how they're used in battle. CCing sounds pretty useless to me.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I love it when people at lower mindset play levels try to agrue with the advice someone of a much higher level gives.

 

[Smo]

how did you manage to rack up 104 posts and not know about directional influence and crouch cancelling? Crouch Cancelling isn't the most useful technique, but it's still worth knowing because you can do it easily out of a dash and other moves. DI is everything in this game.

 

[Private Zulen]

Yeah, that's just physics of Smash. The terms confused me is all.

 

[Smo]

Fair enough. Read the terms post it's interesting and handy for on Smash World Forums XD

 

[AltF4]

Crouch Cancelling isn't the most useful technique,

Apparently you've never played against a Peach... or even a sheik.

By the way, Sean (4-word), I don't entirely understand the situation where you'd use this technique. If you know you're going to be punished, why not concentrate on getting some good DI. I mean, if you're rotating the control stick you're very likely to end up with bad DI.

And if you can get into the shield before you get punished, why not a wavedash back out of sheild?

 

[Aftermath]

Apparently you've never played against a Peach... or even a sheik.

By the way, Sean (4-word), I don't entirely understand the situation where you'd use this technique. If you know you're going to be punished, why not concentrate on getting some good DI. I mean, if you're rotating the control stick you're very likely to end up with bad DI.

And if you can get into the shield before you get punished, why not a wavedash back out of sheild?

It works because the opponent isn't always going to punish correctly. If he mistimes his punish you automatically put up your shield and unpredictably roll away or sidestep. If he doesn't mistime anything, you're still in a position where you can crouch cancel. It's one fluid motion after you whiff a dash attack, you're just covering bases. It's not really spamming for random DI.

Taj pretty much covered it. However, if you're at a high %, it's probably not wise to do this, since DI is more important then, but like he said, if you get grabbed, you're already starting on breaking out. Otherwise, you're doing one of four things out of your shield unpredictably and as fast as possible. If your opponent mistimes or mispredicts in his attack, you gain an advantage, or at least haven't been hit.

 

[Skler]

What about characters with bad rolls, spot dodges or slow jumps. Doing this could hurt a character like that.

Also if you end up jumping out of the shield you had no idea that was going to happen, so you're open for how long it takes you to react. If your opponent has faster reactions (and a fast attack) you're screwed. You may also end up rolling behind the opponent because you said to spin the stick (which includes pressing both towards and away), which is pretty easy to punish regardless of what character you are.

What I'm trying to say is, why should I do this instead of using a move I know will make the punish weak (or not happen at all). Is unpredictability worth more than not losing a stock? I just don't like the idea of doing this and having it end up making me lose a stock because I ended up DIing a tipper wrong at 30%, or ccing a dsmash from peach to get some extra damage (I'm aware I would only cc for maybe one extra hit if this happened, but it's still extra damage I'd rather not have).

So basically tell me why this is better than just holding shield while DIing (or CCing) and buffering my roll or dodge with the c-stick.

EDIT: Thebluedeath, why should people accept something just because a good player says it. If a pro told you to fsmash every time you landed would you ask why or just do it out of blind faith?

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Of course, if you do this in every situation where it's possible to, you will eventually be punished for it too. But if you do this sometimes, and you do other things other times, it'll be better. Like if you already can predict what your opponent will try to punish with, and you have enough time to do something else that is better for your character, by all means do that instead. If you randomly roll or sidestep, and your opponent doesn't predict it, they aren't necessarily able to do anything about it, and you probably dodged what they're trying to punish you with. if you jump (it'll probably be a fulljump unless you are one of those few people that shorthop with the stick regularly), space an aerial or waveland.

 

[Binx]

Of course, if you do this in every situation where it's possible to, you will eventually be punished for it too. But if you do this sometimes, and you do other things other times, it'll be better. Like if you already can predict what your opponent will try to punish with, and you have enough time to do something else that is better for your character, by all means do that instead. If you randomly roll or sidestep, and your opponent doesn't predict it, they aren't necessarily able to do anything about it, and you probably dodged what they're trying to punish you with. if you jump (it'll probably be a fulljump unless you are one of those few people that shorthop with the stick regularly), space an aerial or waveland.

I agree with this, you arent going to do it everytime, and even if you do you shouldnt be whiffing highly punishable attacks very often either.

 

[forward]

A few notes

The situation I said earlier isn't the only scenario to use this. It is also very effective if you have been hit at low percent, and need to escape.

You still regain some control of DI, and the direction you want to roll. Start by rotating the stick by hitting towards the direction you want to DI, first.

Also, I don't know if 3-point DI is real, but if it is I constantly do it because of this technique. Rotate down, to forward, to up. I get a CC plus effective DI, and a random evasion.

Why would you want a random evasion? How can your opponent know what you will do next, if YOU do not know what you will do next?

 

[sexysanta73]

Dang, this is an incredibly helpful technique. :O

 

[emanon]

watch anikis link. he does this all the time if im interpreting this technigue correctly ^^

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Who made your brain, forward? I need to talk to them about mine.

 

[Aftermath]

3-Point DI is real depending on how fast you are at rolling the control stick. The CC won't happen if you're using this, since you won't be crouching at the time of being hit (either in lag or spotdodging if you had hit down), but if you're quick enough to move the control stick from down to straight left/right (at least 90 degrees) in one frame while you're in the hitfreeze, you'll get a smash DI to the right, and if you then move it to up just as quickly, you'll get a smash DI up, or if you're not fast enough, you'll get a regular DI upwards.

One problem is that if you were to say, smash DI to the left on the last available frame of hitfreeze by chance, then on the next frame you wouldn't get the regular DI for some reason.

So yeah, as far as practicality goes (as what I've said is really only useful if you're doing AR testing), the 3-point DI doesn't do anything except give you either DI towards the person, DI up, or diagonal, unless you're out of lag and get the CC.

 

[Repryx]

I see....Combined with the Get Hit Theory. A Defensive Offense...Wow. Amazing.

 

[Sugoi]

An excellent tip to have, thanks forward... I knew u did not quit ;P

 

[ToyzSoldier]

To those saying it won't work, I'd rather trust Forward, somone who's actually tried this in real matches, trying it out and perfecting it for God knows how long, than all those people saying it won't work just because they think of one or two IMAGINARY sitiuations, not full length matches, but imagined situations. Let me ask you this now.

Would I rather trust someone whose done this in real matches countless times or someone whose done this once or twice in their head?

Even if forward were just spewing random shpit, just to mess with us, I'd still try it. Why? Because its still better to explore the potential of a technique on the battlefield rather than in the imagination. Come on be an experimentalist and actually try out a technique before writing it off as horrible. Talk about judging a book by its cover.

 

[Cra$hman]

it doesn't seem like this will be very useful for samus, if i jump or roll thats almost as bad as getting hit again

 

[ToyzSoldier]

Couldn't hurt to try it in a friendly first. It might be the new wavedash

 

[Skler]

To those saying it won't work, I'd rather trust Forward, somone who's actually tried this in real matches, trying it out and perfecting it for God knows how long, than all those people saying it won't work just because they think of one or two IMAGINARY sitiuations, not full length matches, but imagined situations.

Because playing Marth is a completely imaginary situation. He isn't a popular tournament character or anything, he doesn't like to punish with tippers and I've had 0 experience against him. I'd rather DI if I think theres a tipper coming while I buffer a roll or dodge in case one isn't. Spinning the stick while holding L or R will make you (slightly) more unpredictable, but is that really worth losing a stock because of bad DI or rolling behind him because of the buffer (which just leads to getting grabbed).

It's already been said this wouldn't be good for Samus, it also wouldn't be good for Bowser, DK, GaW, Link, Ganon, really any character with a bad roll, jump speed or spot dodge.

EDIT: I'd rather think for myself instead of just assuming that every good player can't make a mistake.

 

[Zone]

I don't deal in button mashing, Which is what this feels like when I try it.
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I get punished out of rolls, spot dodges(some), and jumping? (wouldn't that only work agianst a grab like Link or Samus?).

I'd much rather *Choose* to either roll away, or shield and watch for movement for peach for an approach for grab. Than to accidently crouch cancel a Peach Down smash, or get grabbed as a fox and chain grabbed, regardless of trying to break out if they throw you up instantly instead of being greedy with a few jabs which they probably should assume if you did it once already.

But you guys can do what you want to do. Not everything works for everyone.

In alot of cases, priority move is a better choice. If you get in the habit of that you may miss these opportunities. Such as jabs to pple who grab, or Up+B out of shield for some characters.

I guess what I'm saying is, this seems to deal more in chance. Which I dont like.

Eating stinky kimchi however is not a chance. full proof plan.

I already experimented, but not much success, but i didn't spam it. I only used it when I thought it'd be useful. Maybe i'm completely not understanding how its suppose to work.

*Edit* I'm guessing it only works for certain matchups.

 

[cubican62]

I think its a great idea but like Skler has been saying, it might not always be worth it just for the sake of unpredictability. But I do agree it can be helpful if used sparingly.

 

[red stone]

if you have to do this to become unpredictable. you are just not creative

 

[SantaClaus]

if you have to do this to become unpredictable. you are just not creative

Well I don't believe this should be used every time you find yourself in a situation like this, but once in a while it is a decent way to be unpredictable if you have trouble breaking habits.

 

[Cra$hman]

this game is played by habits and conditioned responses, its the only way to react as fast as you need to.

 

[trademark0013]

I love it when people at lower mindset play levels try to agrue with the advice someone of a much higher level gives.

pretty much sums things up...

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you aren't an idiot, it is pretty foolproof.

Listen to yourself. What you just said is like arguing that you should never ever run because if you do it into a brick wall, you'll break your nose. Obviously, there are situations in which pressing L/R is a bad idea, but it dosn't mean you try and shoot the idea down. That's called beeing closed minded.

Forward knows what he's talking about. This technique DOES work, if you've got the brain power to make sure you're on the stage when you do it.

Please, think before you post.

I was kidding, silly - looking for an avenue of escape from "perfection" because perfection is what was claimed. Everyone who's making a joke employs this strategy.

Of course I believe it works.

 

[theONEjanitor]

bumping this because its a great technique.